EDIT: New Question, is LeBron the second greatest player of all time? So, has Steph Curry overtaken

[Peep Game]

Dude was so inconsequential that I barely remember him playing like that

Gets picked up late in the season and found himself playing heavy playoff minutes :x

No wonder old man J-Kidd cooked

People constantly called them loaded, yet some of the spare parts on that team were atrocious, and the reason they lost is cause they were extremely top heavy going against a perfectly well rounded Mavs team. Then that Heat team corrected themselves the next two years. Instead of Mike Bibby and Carlos Arroyox) getting minutes, you had a developing Chalmers and Norris Cole. Instead of washed aging vets like Dampier, House, and Big Z making minimal contributions, you had Shane Battier, Mike Miller, Ray Allen, and Birdman very readily making play.

And every once in awhile Joey Anthony, Haslem, and Pittman would get a key block or rebound, and give a mean stare or something

 

[T0INE]

 @ some of the foolishness in here

Sans his '07 Cavs, the '11 Heat were the "weakest" Finals team LeBron has played on.

That said, if LeBron plays at 80% of his normal elite level and didn't completely **** the bed, they probably still win that Finals. 

I rock with Bron, but some of y'all wildin' making it seem like it was a one man show during his Heatles days.

Was he the driving force in the success of the Heat during his tenure? Yes.

Did he do it alone? No.

Of course there was Wade and Bosh, but he wouldn't have won those two titles if not for the likes of Birdman, Udonis Haslem, Top Ten Mario Chalmers, dat corpse Mike Miller, Shane Battier, and of course Ray Allen.

Just like MJ wouldn't have won some of his titles without Paxton and Kerr hitting those shots. Kobe and Shaq wouldn't have 3peated without the exploits of Robert Horry, Derek Fisher. 

Basketball is probably the easiest sport to see how an elite player can impact the outcome of game/series both positively and negatively. 

We've seen the positive (Game 6 in Boston) and negative (2011 Finals). Steph is currently experiencing the negative side right now (and deservedly so) but I wouldn't start burying his grave yet like some of you are. 

 

 

 

[dland24]

 

 @ some of the foolishness in here

Sans his '07 Cavs, the '11 Heat were the "weakest" Finals team LeBron has played on.

That said, if LeBron plays at 80% of his normal elite level and didn't completely **** the bed, they probably still win that Finals. 

I rock with Bron, but some of y'all wildin' making it seem like it was a one man show during his Heatles days.

Was he the driving force in the success of the Heat during his tenure? Yes.

Did he do it alone? No.

Of course there was Wade and Bosh, but he wouldn't have won those two titles if not for the likes of Birdman, Udonis Haslem, Top Ten Mario Chalmers, dat corpse Mike Miller, Shane Battier, and of course Ray Allen.

Just like MJ wouldn't have won some of his titles without Paxton and Kerr hitting those shots. Kobe and Shaq wouldn't have 3peated without the exploits of Robert Horry, Derek Fisher. 

Basketball is probably the easiest sport to see how an elite player can impact the outcome of game/series both positively and negatively. 

We've seen the positive (Game 6 in Boston) and negative (2011 Finals). Steph is currently experiencing the negative side right now (and deservedly so) but I wouldn't start burying his grave yet like some of you are. 

 

 

Well said....specifically the bolded.  Why some people cant understand that ONE basketball player makes exponentially more of an impact than ONE player of another sport astonishes me.  

 

[moe200069]

:x  @ some of the foolishness in here

Sans his '07 Cavs, the '11 Heat were the "weakest" Finals team LeBron has played on.

That said, if LeBron plays at 80% of his normal elite level and didn't completely **** the bed, they probably still win that Finals. 

I rock with Bron, but some of y'all wildin' making it seem like it was a one man show during his Heatles days.

Was he the driving force in the success of the Heat during his tenure? Yes.

Did he do it alone? No.

Of course there was Wade and Bosh, but he wouldn't have won those two titles if not for the likes of Birdman, Udonis Haslem, Top Ten Mario Chalmers, dat corpse Mike Miller, Shane Battier, and of course Ray Allen.

Just like MJ wouldn't have won some of his titles without Paxton and Kerr hitting those shots. Kobe and Shaq wouldn't have 3peated without the exploits of Robert Horry, Derek Fisher. 

Basketball is probably the easiest sport to see how an elite player can impact the outcome of game/series both positively and negatively. 

We've seen the positive (Game 6 in Boston) and negative (2011 Finals). Steph is currently experiencing the negative side right now (and deservedly so) but I wouldn't start burying his grave yet like some of you are.     

View media item 2085790

 

[jumpman cbt2]

Bron was 26 when he underperformed in 2011 against the Mavs. Your peak is usually from about 24-32.

A jump shot is the last thing to go in basketball. Steph will be fine. He has a chance to redeem himself...just like Bron did.

Again, Bron sht the bed just as bad in 2011.

Lebron choked in the 2011 finals. It was obvious and himself said it that he performed badly.
Imo, it was his worst finals as he simply did not know when to take over and when to step back.
Miami finally became better when wade told Lebron to lead this team.

 

[wavycrocket]

Lebron choked in the 2011 finals. It was obvious and himself said it that he performed badly.
Imo, it was his worst finals as he simply did not know when to take over and when to step back.
Miami finally became better when wade told Lebron to lead this team.

See, that's a fair and rational way to analyze things. That makes sense. But you said THIS earlier, which contradicts your point

He surely isn't trash but also not the elite player he had been hyped during the regular season.
When it counted most he underperformed.
Would NBA legends like MJ, Bird, Magic, Kareem be what they are if they were having great seasons but could not deliver in the post season?
Great players normally go on turbo mode in the postseason to lead their team.

You inferred that NBA legends don't underperform in the biggest momments. Yet LeBron did, and Steph just did. This doesn't mean they "got exposed" or aren't every bit as good of a player as they've consistently showed.

When you say something like Steph isn't the elite player he was hyped to be in the regular season because he had one bad finals....what does that say about 2011 LeBron?

I'm just trying to show the hypocrisy in the short sighted, hot takes post.

 

[Peep Game]

Well, we did see Lebron at a high level for like 7 years before that, and not 2 years

 

[slick vitale]

See, that's a fair and rational way to analyze things. That makes sense. But you said THIS earlier, which contradicts your point
You inferred that NBA legends don't underperform in the biggest momments. Yet LeBron did, and Steph just did. This doesn't mean they "got exposed" or aren't every bit as good of a player as they've consistently showed.

When you say something like Steph isn't the elite player he was hyped to be in the regular season because he had one bad finals....what does that say about 2011 LeBron?

I'm just trying to show the hypocrisy in the short sighted, hot takes post.

 

[thegrandpuba26]

See, that's a fair and rational way to analyze things. That makes sense. But you said THIS earlier, which contradicts your point
You inferred that NBA legends don't underperform in the biggest momments. Yet LeBron did, and Steph just did. This doesn't mean they "got exposed" or aren't every bit as good of a player as they've consistently showed.

When you say something like Steph isn't the elite player he was hyped to be in the regular season because he had one bad finals....what does that say about 2011 LeBron?

I'm just trying to show the hypocrisy in the short sighted, hot takes post.

I agree with some of your points. I think pulling the "exposed" card is too easy now a days. That's sort of the problem of this thread! The talk about superstars and their "legacies" make us forget about the specific nuances that go into a 5-man game. I mean we really made this a thread in November because the Warriors beat the Cavs in the finals, who had about 8 guys in rotation. 

 LeBron has/was proven to be the best player in the league the years leading up to his 2011 performance. Once he got to the finals against the Mavs, he was non-existent. It wasn't to say he was just missing shots. He was ineffective. He only averaged 17ppg (Read: WTF) and attempted 90 FGs in 5 games. Every other Finals campaign he averaged at least 150FG attempts (minus the loss to the Spurs in 2014, and he still managed to average 28ppg).

With Steph Curry, the general consensus was that he would be the best shooter the NBA has ever seen. However if you told somebody in 2011 that Steph would be a 2-time MVP with a 73-9 record, they would ask who's your plug. The point being is that these past two seasons for him were off the charts, nobody expected him to be this great, seemingly out of nowhere. When people saw that, he was handed the NBA crown. No Finals MVP, wasn't much of a factor, and scored 22ppg. 

In short: LeBron's been great for so long, his 2011 finals was a surprise, because we knew what he was capable of.

Steph's been so great in a short span of time, we don't know if we're recognizing greatness in him, or if he's just a shooter with the best supporting squad around him. 

 

[mr s j king]

Wade admitted that the 2011 Finals was his fault because he wasn't deferring to LeBron, and that caused LeBron to defer to him.
He said once he got out of the way they started winning titles.

So what's the consensus?
Who's better, Curry or LeBron?

 

[Proposition Joe]

So what's the consensus?
Who's better, Curry or LeBron?

View media item 2086810

 

[Maximus Meridius]

So what's the consensus?
Who's better, Curry or LeBron?

View media item 2086810

Shoulda never been a question.

 

[Jokegeta]

Shoulda never been a question.

At All

 

[thegrandpuba26]

Shoulda never been a question.

 

[rolaholic]

So glad that common sense seems to have been restored in the NBA universe,Bron and co won one for the culture

 

[moe200069]

So what's the consensus?
Who's better, Curry or LeBron?

View media item 2086810

Shoulda never been a question.

yes, the warriors choked miserably but the fact that the series was once 3-1 in their favor throws your whole notion of "shoulda never been a question" out the window.

 

[Proposition Joe]

yes, the warriors choked miserably but the fact that the series was once 3-1 in their favor throws your whole notion of "shoulda never been a question" out the window.

Naw,

If the Warriors would've won it still shouldn't have been a question. That fact that last years finals had bron in the finals mvp discussion shows that it shouldn't have been a question

 

[7th Chamber]

@ a 3-point chucker being better than LeBron.

 

[mr s j king]

"I'M HERE!"
"I'M BACK!"
View media item 2077658

 

[Maximus Meridius]

So what's the consensus?
Who's better, Curry or LeBron?

View media item 2086810

Shoulda never been a question.

yes, the warriors choked miserably but the fact that the series was once 3-1 in their favor throws your whole notion of "shoulda never been a question" out the window.

Even last year when the Warriors won Steph still wasn't a better player than Lebron.

 

[7th Chamber]

"I'M HERE!"
"I'M BACK!"
View media item 2077658

View media item 2087016

 

[mr s j king]

yes, the warriors choked miserably but the fact that the series was once 3-1 in their favor throws your whole notion of "shoulda never been a question" out the window.

Choked miserably is a groas understatement.
It was a HISTORICAL CHOKE JOB.

 

[T Lo Sweater]

Choked miserably is a groas understatement.
It was a HISTORICAL CHOKE JOB.

It was given to him on a silver platter. Still couldn't take it

Btw

Kyrie > steph

He takes it to the basket against tall guys. Steps don't do that. Especially that March game against the spurs last year. The defending Champs. And he drops 57. 11 in overtime

Good lord was he cooking back then and in the finals this year

 

[Proposition Joe]

Kyrie is not better than steph

Take a second and imagine if it was steph playing along side lebron


Bron gives players opportunity to shine while covering the teams weakness. You could've put lillard in kyries position and probably get the same results

Let's just keep it real bron = goat

 

[7th Chamber]

Kyrie is not better than steph

Take a second and imagine if it was steph playing along side lebron

LeBron would have been 2-5 in the Finals