Forbes article if I was a poor black kid

[Betonblck]

Originally Posted by sillyputty



If a black leader had written this article it would have gotten:




A. NO PRESS WHAT-SO-EVER

B. Anyone who read it in the first place would have praised it. 




Why? Its implied that black people "relate" more. 

A black leader would not have written this drivel.  I'm usually one of the early posters to comment on these topics but waited because it is laughable.

"Go on Google and Skype to study".  How, when they don't have Internet and they need their child to work after school so that they can use the money to pay the family's heating bills?

 

[Jordan8]

WHats crazy about the black community is anybody can come up with a problem or conspiracy and the masses will immediately flock to the notion

But for god sakes dont come around here with any type of solution you will get DESTROYED

 

[oidreez]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Ok everyone, lets play a game.





1. What if the author had spent time working in the hood and trying to fix these problems? 




2. What if the author had donated money to addressing these things? 




3. What if the author learned more about the causes of the issues facing the black community.




4. What if the author had held meetings with congressmen, sponsored dialogues with education academics, and organized activist events to promote systemic socioeconomic change?










Would that make you feel better?







Now how does a list of educational websites, people to talk to, and skills to learn make black kids look bad? 

How does that invalidate any of his suggestions about success for any poor black student? 













You still have to work hard. 

Still have to get good grades. 

Still have to put your best foot forward. 

Still have to want to succeed. 



















Crack-cocaine, money, no father at home, resources, nutrition, teen pregnancy, musical influences, government assistance, run-down neighborhoods, etc. 




You know what those are?




Obstacles. Excuses. Scapegoats. 
















These things are easy to blame.




Now how can we over come them? 




Legislation in favor of minorities? Sure...but that takes forever. Lets keep trying at this though...we're slowly making progress...




IN THE MEAN TIME...how about we throw in a list of sites students can go home with RIGHT NOW. 




TONIGHT Tyrone can get an A on his homework. 

TONIGHT tyrone can learn how to meet his guidance conselors. 

TONIGHT tyrone can learn WHAT to search google, not just how to search. 

TONIGHT Tyrone can watch a video on a part of class he missed. 
















Its not success if everyone does it. Remember that. Its not easy for everyone. We all have a different path to follow. 













All this academia and articles has to be COUPLED with actual attempts at offering suggestions to youth that struggle AS WE SPEAK. 

There is a kid sitting in class RIGHT NOW eager to know about more options out there. But ya'll wanna talk about changes that will take 5-10 years to see the effects of. Giving even a kid a list of things to look into will expose him to that many more things by proxy of endeavors to undertake. They might run into something else. 

Ya'll wanna talk about problems but are ANY of you offering suggestions?

well then the article would be entirely different if he talked about how he plans to start an after school program to help minority youth or if he mentored kids in bad areas or if he donated money to schools etc.

 

[Sir San Diego]

Originally Posted by cartune

WHats crazy about the black community is anybody can come up with a problem or conspiracy and the masses will immediately flock to the notion

But for god sakes dont come around here with any type of solution you will get DESTROYED

Go smack yourself in the face with a moving truck.

Boy sit your corny wide screen high def forehead @!* down.

 

[Jordan8]

Ima write like Sillyputty right quick
NOTHING in this article is irrational as a matter of fact I've seen it with my own eyes




Black kids who do everything dude suggested are considered nerds in shunned in the black community




because while the majority of his or her peers are trying to be:

He or she is busy grinding trying to get the hell out of there situation. I've seen it personally. I've had it in my family. 




"Trying to act white" is a familiar phrase associated with these types of people




So no not everyone in these communities have the same opps that the middle class white families have but when a small percantage finds a way out what the hell is stopping the rest? 




Stop with the damn excuses negroes. 

 

[monstar1]

Thank you Curb for having the energy to say what I been saying.  It's almost comical how anyone let alone a person of color could defend this article. 

SillyPutty's whole thing is "at least he did something to help RIGHT NOW" ok ok we get it.  But like my man Curb said those solutions don't really solve the problem.  And on top of that those "solutions" aka a list of websites comes from a naive man who is speaking on a reality he knows nothing about.

A list a websites....you really wanna stand up and applaud a man for giving kids from the bottom a list of websites by writing in Forbes magazine? C'mon you smarter than that SillyPutty.

then you wanna say "oh what have you done? he's done more than you"....what they hell does that even mean? we are discussing the article. It's not about what we have done.  Mike Wilborn can't dunk, throw a touchdown, or kick a goal but he's allowed to be critical of athletes.  What have we done?  We know it takes more than a list of websites...that's already a leg up on this Forbes guy.

 

[Jordan8]

Originally Posted by Brolic Scholar

Originally Posted by cartune

WHats crazy about the black community is anybody can come up with a problem or conspiracy and the masses will immediately flock to the notion

But for god sakes dont come around here with any type of solution you will get DESTROYED

Go smack yourself in the face with a moving truck.

Boy sit your corny wide screen high def forehead @!* down.

E.G. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by MonStar1

Thank you Curb for having the energy to say what I been saying.  It's almost comical how anyone let alone a person of color could defend this article. 

SillyPutty's whole thing is "at least he did something to help RIGHT NOW" ok ok we get it.  But like my man Curb said those solutions don't really solve the problem.  And on top of that those "solutions" aka a list of websites comes from a naive man who is speaking on a reality he knows nothing about.

A list a websites....you really wanna stand up and applaud a man for giving kids from the bottom a list of websites by writing in Forbes magazine? C'mon you smarter than that SillyPutty.

then you wanna say "oh what have you done? he's done more than you"....what they hell does that even mean? we are discussing the article. It's not about what we have done.  Mike Wilborn can't dunk, throw a touchdown, or kick a goal but he's allowed to be critical of athletes.  What have we done?  We know it takes more than a list of websites...that's already a leg up on this Forbes guy.

Piss poor analysis here guys. Seriously. 


I swear you all want something for nothing.













The author isn't trying to save the world. He made a really poor article title, I agree there, but there is NOTHING wrong about what he said.




Study hard. Good grades. Learn a skill. Meet the right people. Hustle. Hustle. Hustle. 




Guess what, if you live in the hood, the standard of academic success is still the same.  Good grades = Better chances




Its NOT going to change as long as grades and academics are the standard of success. 













If the author wrote yet another tired article about how much the odds are stacked against us, what would that accomplish? I can go read Ebony or Jet if I want that. Thats 90% of the content.




He gave you a list of things to accomplish. A set of goals. And a set of tools.




Thats more than reminding little jimmy how much the world hates him. Well at least he can wake up without knowing about the online resources and personal goals he could have made for himself....but at least he knows the odds. Which aren't in his favor. 




It doesn't matter HOW you cross the finish line as long as you do. 










The world has fooled you all into thinking that just knowing about inequality is the end of the story.




What are you going to do about it? 

 

[deuce king]

The world has fooled you all into thinking that just knowing about inequality is the end of the story.




What are you going to do about it? 

Agreed.  As a community we have become complacent, and ##+!%$ got comfortable with everything.

 

[foxdawg2000]

Originally Posted by CurbYourEnthusiasm

the point is still being missed

Not that what he said, but who said it. As if that really matters.

If Jesse or Sharpton said this, people would be applauding. 

its not that he's white...its that hes so disconnected they are just idle words

jesse and sharpton wouldnt say this...thats my entire +$@#%@% point

(i happen to dislike both jesse and sharpton)

see, they have perspective on the issue, they know its not as simple as "focus on reading"



this !$@!@ silly putty said "online calculator"

"kids in africa study by candle light"

we're in......america, tho......

where nobody is living as substandardly as africans, right?

oh.

i mean, everyone has a shot, i'd argue living as substandardly as if you were in africa isnt much of a shot...if a shot at all.



yes, african americans are different than carribean americans....hence the names.

thats a personal way of classifying and defining the word "african american"

silly, the mere fact that you respond "racism catches up quick here" shows me that you're missing my point


300 years of SYSTEMATIC (legislation..i.e. legal...i.e. the law of the land) oppression and "racism" isnt the same


you have entire family lineages who are ANTI-education? why?

250 years ago the father was denied access to the white system

so they were against it

matter of fact, i wont even use a black example

i had parents who were dropouts literally TEACH their kids that school isnt important...

they were white...poor, but white

that is a feature of the SYSTEM

this is an impact of a SYSTEM

that was INTENDED to give this result

so to be completely oblivious of the system and offer advice like "study real hard" is laughable

only reason im even posting in here is cause i respect putty's mind

i really told myself i wasnt gonna get involved in this post..

"so what if its no new thought"

THEN WE'VE HEARD IT ALREADY

dont you get frustrated when you're in a religious post and on page 52 some lame comes in to say the same +%#* you made a joke out of on the 2nd page?

same difference.

if you're not innovating you're just blowing hot air.

you think inner-city "poor black kids" dont know they need to be able to read?

you think they make a conscious decision to NOT read?

or do you think the system has failed them, allowing an american born citizen to grow up illiterate?

i happen to think its a pattern of a failed system, much more so than "lazy poor black kids who dont value the ability to read"

i got kids here that are removed from class because of behavior so much its no wonder they're reading 4 grade levels behind

this is a systematic problem, which wont be solved with ideas as regurgitated, simple and presumptious as "try harder"

no +%#* black people have to try harder to be successful

what a innovative thinker this guy is...

my point in him being oblivious and out of touch......isnt because hes white so he cant criticize.....its because he has no idea what hes talking about

the population he's speaking to from a position of authority, he has absolutely no idea about....

the experience he's telling "poor black kids" how to navigate? he cant even IMAGINE the reality

its like stevie wonder giving you advice about where to place security cameras in your house...you know, speaking like an authority on line of sight....

its literally that much of a joke to me.


this is preemptive

dont respond to this post with a straw man tactic of telling me im a hypocrite or relating anything other than the fact that dude is oblivious to the experience he is advising people how to navigate successfully....



cause thats the only point that matters

*waits for the "so just cause he's white" response about 14 more times before the post is locked*


for heavens sake a middle aged white man who hasnt even smelled the hood is telling poor black kids how to navigate hood life? word?

that's not ridiculous to yall?

thats not like the random 20-something guy on judge joe brown telling the "judge" what the law states?

thats not like a completely drug-and-alcohol-free person (who has never seen drugs, let alone tried them) running a sobriety center, working directly with addicts to help them break their addiction?

why do you think we hire people who were once homeless to work in homeless shelters?

why are AA meetings run by former alocholics? why not get people who have never tried alcohol, obviously they have the strongest willpower

at those AA meetings, people who have never taken a single sip of alcohol will give alcoholics advice on how to avoid alcohol....

you know, they'll give them advice like "dont drink" and "when there are drinks, leave the area" right?

real helpful.

about as helpful as an out-of-touch, completely perspectiveless white man from the suburbs telling "poor black kids" how to survive the hood and overcome odds he doesnt even UNDERSTAND himself....

1. What if the author had spent time working in the hood and trying to fix these problems? 




2. What if the author had donated money to addressing these things? 




3. What if the author learned more about the causes of the issues facing the black community.




4. What if the author had held meetings with congressmen, sponsored dialogues with education academics, and organized activist events to promote systemic socioeconomic change?










Would that make you feel better?

my entire point is, silly, that IF he had spent time in the hood with the population he is giving advice to

HE WOULDNT HAVE WRITTEN THE ARTICLE

HE WOULDNT HAVE SAID "just try harder"

HE WOULD HAVE PERSPECTIVE

AND HIS WRITINGS WOULD CLOSER MIRROR THE WRITINGS OF THOSE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE IN THE HOOD WITH LOW-SOCIOECONOMIC POPULATIONS

the only dudes speaking from that position are OBLIVIOUS to the reality of the hood


  
^Question? Would it have been better for his to just ignore the issue and go about his life without addressing the topic one bit?

After examining the thread for a couple of days and offering up my previous response..

My problem is not his message but more so the forum where he chose to offer up his opinion.. (Forbes Mag)
I would have respected his opinion much more if this was printed in a black publication but I can understand why he chose this one.. for a couple of reasons..
He took the safe route for the fact that he knows the readers of the magazine for the most part (white folks) would be empathetic to his point of view and applaud him for his efforts.  And 2nd as a white man the backlash from popular black leaders and black folks alike would be enormous if this was published in an "urban" magazine.

When a black man speaks on illiteracy or lack of education/parenting skills in the black community, he's sometimes criticized (Cosby) but often respected for his perspective
When a white man speaks on the same topics he's considered naive to the subject and sometimes racist..

My conclusion, black folks have a problem looking in the mirror and being told by someone who doesn't look like them what their biggest problems are without deeming that person a racist, devil or somebody with ulterior motive..


I personally see where both sides are coming from.. Kind of like when a white guy says yeah I understand how tough black folks had it during slavery and every black person in the room wants to get up and stomp buddy out.  At the same time would you rather have a white man attempt to understand your struggle or just act like it never happened.  The man at least is attempting to point out that there is a struggle going on, one that he probably could never comprehend and while it is an uphill battle, here are some suggestions..

We can't keep making excuses that it's too hard and nobody understands us.. People are attempting to take a peek into our struggle but we consistently shun them or try and assassinate their credibility due to things that are totally out of their control.. Yes, slavery was a true American atrocity but there's no one left to blame.. Modern day white man did not enslave you or your ancestors.. Things are far from utopian and yes discrimination is alive and well.  But you can't blame every white man walking today for the problems of your father.

Truth is that black people poor, middle class or rich have more opportunities now than they ever have.. As bad as you think your prospects are as an disadvantaged youth, you could have it much worse..

You have OPTIONS.. No they  may not be the same options are the white kid on the rich part of town but in order for your people to get to that part of town you're going to have to beat the odds.. And help the next kid do the same..

For me to sit here and deny that this isn't a complicated issue, would be idiotic.  I understand this is not a one size fits all solution.  But at least it is a start. If you never try how can you succeed? If you defeat yourself before you ever attempt to try you have a 0/100 chance..

It's a sad day when black folks forcibly silence others for speaking on their situation.. I doubt that's a way to go about solving these complex issues.. All perspectives are needed and should be appreciated..

Just my thoughts.

 

[sonoftony]

i agree with 100% with what the article and what sillyputty is saying. the author of that article was being informative, helpful but yet blunt IMO. why yall mad for?!

 

[atlballa15]

The problem isn't necessarily what he said. It's the ideology he represents, one that is widely held in conservative circles - poor black kids just need to try harder. I seriously doubt many poor black kids are perusing Forbes.com, reading up on the latest news in the business world and on the economy. Yet I'm sure there are a lot of wealthy white conservaties that read it. And it becomes problematic when law-makers, business owners, employers, etc. start to co-sign this "just try harder" nonsense. It's simplistic, idealistic and bereft of perspective. It might help a lucky few, but it does so at the expense of perpetuating class division and racist thinking.

The real question is why should poor black kids have to be extraordinary in order to have the slightest chance at success? Why can't they just be average - just like his kids?

 

[Methodical Management]

so dont ask me "what if he was martin luther king who wrote it"cause this ignorant, oblivious advice wouldnt come from someone with even an iota of perspective.
Bingo.  

Sending home a sheet of websites to help kids is more to them TONIGHT than us talking about it online and posting comments to message boards about how to fix congress to write better laws in a process that takes years. 

And what, pray tell, are you doing?  Some of us have devoted our lives to this and similar issues.  Curb works in education, if I'm not mistaken.  Pot, I believe you've met my friend, kettle.  You two have so much in common. 

Are we going to always wait on the calvary of social justice or are we going to learn how to shoot and fight for ourselves? Theres nothing wrong with doing BOTH. 

You might be just as out of touch as he is if you think people aren't out there trying, or that "study harder" is really a novel "tip."  
http://www.theonion.com/articles/an-open-letter-to-a-starving-child,10972/

"Study as hard as you can" is like telling famine victims to "eat more."  If only it were that simple.  

A couple of weeks ago Zooey Deschanel was on Conan and she talked about how, when she was a girl, she thought she invented rinsing after brushing her teeth.  A lot of little kids think this way.  Sometimes, when we're very young, within the confines of our insular little minds we fancy that when we discover something new in our world, we have somehow ushered it into the world in total.  So, if you don't mind a hint of vulgarity, this is like a 10 year old boy who's yet to have "the talk" or a sex ed course figuring out on his own the biological function of his erstwhile inexplicable erections and then heralding to the world the discovery of his, to lift a phrase from Navin R. Johnson, "special purpose."  You would think that it would require a 10 year old boy to possess thenaïveté to earnestly believe that he'd invented procreation.  Talk about non sequiturs.  

We see it on NT every day.  Some kid reads Nietzsche for the first time as an undergrad and suddenly he's "discovered" that "God is dead."  Suddenly, all of NT has to know about this amazing new paradigm shift, because it would totally blow their minds.  

This is, in some ways, a natural step towards the mastery of new skills and knowledge.  One of the best ways to learn something, so long as we're talking about obvious study tips, is to explain it to someone else.  In attempting to dismantle and repackage the concept in order to relate it to someone else in our own words, we develop a stronger of understanding of it.  So, it's only natural that a lot of undergrads love to show off newly acquired knowledge on our forums.  The problem, though, is that, in their zeal, they often tend to forget that 1) what's new to them is not new to the world and 2) that their own nascent understanding is facile and incomplete.  

Racial achievement gaps are nothing new.  So, here you're joining an age old conversation and blurting out the most obvious, patronizing "solution" imaginable - and you have the gall to suggest that you're bringing something new to the table.  

Al Sharpton isn't going to say "study harder," and "learn how to read" because this isn't his first day on the job.  

Telling tyrone about online homework help means a lot more RIGHT NOW than telling random people on forbes about the problems black people face. They've heard it before. They listen to our music. They watch our movies. They (sometimes) read our books. They know whats against us. 

And you think "Tyrone," (as if this conversation needed more offensive stereotypes), hasn't heard "study hard" before?  It's terribly insulting to think that this is a message that people NEED to hear, that somehow a light's just going to go off in "Tyrone's" head and he'll say "WOW, STUDY!  Self-reliance!  Golly gee, why didn't I think of that?!  Thank you so much, random middle-class White man, for teaching me the keys to success!!"  

Again, more op-ed pieces. 

Steve jobs was a jerk to some people. So? There are tons of stories of him being divisive in the work place. He didn't speak to one of his own daughters. He lived a troubled personal life. Thats their opinion. There is a man behind the robes. Theres nothing wrong with him addressing your reverence for a man you thought was infallible. 

On the topic of the article on female CEOs. I didn't read it but I know a lot of articles and even a recent TED talk was focused on this thing. I don't know his stance but if you disagreed with it, then I guess thats on you. I'm not offering an opinion on this because thats a separate issue from he handles this new topic. 

We can't assert that every writer is going to all things to all people all the time. All we can do is judge them on their output of independent pieces of work. I judge articles based on the content contained within them. I can't judge them based on patterns they've set. I don't know what authors have learned in between pieces they've written or how their bias has subtlety changed over time. The most honest thing I can do is to judge them independently because each piece addresses a different topic in a new way. Its like me giving everything einstein has to say the stamp of approval because hes einstein. No. I give those things the stamp of approval because of what it actually says that substantiates it on its own. 

Now that's truly naive - even for this conversation.  If you look at this hack's "body of work," the strategy is painfully obvious.  
This guy's only goal is to get hits.  He's a "professional" troll.  No wonder you're so eager to serve as his apologist.

Yet its clearly only me that "loves to argue"

Just look at you.  Seriously, look at what you do in virtually every thread you participate in. 
Guy, you ARE a troll.  I don't even think you believe half the stuff you argue about, you're just so blatantly desperate for interaction that you're more than happy to play the role of contrarian.   

The sad thing is, you have no idea how much this KILLS your credibility regarding the issues you actually do care about.

I'll quote from the Kashmir Hill piece on Forbes re: this clown's MO,

So what keeps people from trolling? When your name and face are attached to what you write, you start to develop what our CPO Lewis D’Vorkin loves to call “a personal brand.

 

[hankmoody]

http://www.theatlantic.co...ld-wide-trollery/250045/

 

[monstar1]

well meth just summed that up nicely....

 

[Methodical Management]

Since my last replies are too long for most, let me put it another way: 
This is like a 23 year-old accounting major popping in to CERN after reading an article about their struggle to identify the Higgs boson particle and saying, 
"Say, fellas, have you tried plugging it in? That's how I fixed my Blu Ray player."

 

[goldenchild9]

There is a lot of professional trolling coming from "journalists" on the web nowadays.

Several Marketwatch writers have become infamous for it.

 

[hankmoody]

Y'all can't get 5 Sigma significance over there? Losers.

 

[Methodical Management]

Y'all can't get 5 Sigma significance over there? Losers.

Maybe we should tell them about TED.

 

[MIKE LOWERY]

at the ridiculousness of the article and those who defend it.



I wasn't aware that a "poor black kid" was a singular entity. 

  Like a corporation or business practice that forbes might publish and article on.



Every case is different. Every individual has a different story. Sparknotes and Google scholar? Skype? Lemme guess one "poor black kid" can somehow Skype with other "poor black kids" and everybody can make it right?

I know a few school teachers and they tell me that many inner city parents usually have or can afford cheap computers and internet service nowadays.  That because (and sadly) it’s oftentimes a necessary thing to keep their kids safe at home then on the streets.  And libraries and schools have computers available too.  Computers can be purchased cheaply at outlets like TigerDirect and Dell’s Outlet.  Professional organizations like accountants and architects often offer used computers from their members, sometimes at no cost at all.

What a wonderfully ignorant assumption. 

Simple solutions for very complex problems. 

The same way everyone complains about problems, anyone can offer up solutions. But what's truly practical? I never blame kids in these situations.



Write an article on poor parents who do not and continually will not prepare their children for this harsh reality out here. There's the bigger problem.

 

[hankmoody]

Originally Posted by Method Man

Y'all can't get 5 Sigma significance over there? Losers.

Maybe we should tell them about TED.


RSAnimate would be better. They had a good one on weight loss recently. Maybe that'll help get those extra 13 GeV's off.

 

[goldenchild9]

Originally Posted by Method Man

Y'all can't get 5 Sigma significance over there? Losers.

Maybe we should tell them about TED.

 

[Jordan8]

Again do any of you have any suggestions?

Because there are plenty of kids in the inner city who do go above and beyond and use a lot of the methods suggested in the article

How do we get all of the kids to care?

 

[MIKE LOWERY]

Originally Posted by cartune

Again do any of you have any suggestions?

Because there are plenty of kids in the inner city who do go above and beyond and use a lot of the methods suggested in the article

How do we get all of the kids to care?

Like I said (and I think you stated it earlier as well)

This ain't about the kids themselves and their understanding of the situation or self motivations. It's about poor minority parents who don't prepare (nor care to) these children. How the hell is a 13 or 14y/o gonna be about education or things of the like if he has absolutely no guidance outside of the TV/Internet/enviromental influences around him? If you don't know which way is up then where is your baseline? How do you know what is success and what to strive for?



This article is done in poor taste and the whole tone is just ridiculous. How do get away with calling your article "If I was a poor black kid"? Forbes

 

[renzo289]

“no idea’s original, there’s nothing new under the sun. It’s not what you do, but how it’s done.