Gay Rights slams Kobe-- "what a disgrace" Kobe gets fined 100k

[degenerate423]

Originally Posted by BK201

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

Originally Posted by The Encore

Yet Duncan got ejected in the past because he was laughing on the bench?

You can hide your sexual orientation if you want to, I can't hide my race/skin color...

That doesn't matter because at the end of the day people of color and people that are gay are being discriminated against because of who they are.

No, people of color are being discriminated against because of "what" they are not because of "who" they are.  Yes, discrimination is discrimination, but to say that a gay, white male is just as looked down upon by society as a straight, asian/african/latino is almost comical.  9 times out of 10, none of us can even tell a gay person from a straight person, but you can definitely look at me and tell my ethnicity with more certainty.  Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that gays are whining about nothing, they definitely have legitimate issues in society, I just don't think discrimination against gays is on the same level as racism...

Originally Posted by Method Man

You can hide your sexual orientation if you want to, I can't hide my race/skin color...

And I shouldn't have to try to conceal my ethnicity, but we don't live in a perfect world.  Like I said, most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is.  I'm being judged before I even say a word, and somehow I'm supposed to believe that someone's sexual orientation is giving them as much problems as my skin color/ethnicity gives me?  I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hard to comprehend...

 

[DCAllAfrican]

And just for the record, you CAN hide the fact that you're black...Michael Jackson?  So that argument is null and void.

Wait, huh??

 

[DCAllAfrican]

And just for the record, you CAN hide the fact that you're black...Michael Jackson?  So that argument is null and void.

Wait, huh??

 

[DCAllAfrican]

[h3]David Stern predicts openly gay players[/h3]
April, 15, 2011
Apr 15

2:53

PM ET

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By Henry Abbott
Archive

3,600 is a big number. That's roughly how many men have played in the NBA through the years.

None has ever come out of the closet while playing.

Just about every two years we get hints as to why:

• In his 2007 book, retired player John Amaechi both came out of the closet, and shared word of bigoted behavior from his former owner and coach.
• In 2009, TV cameras caught Kenyon Martin calling Mavericks owner Mark Cuban a gay slur (NSFW).
• It's 2011, and Kobe Bryant is in the midst of various apologies for directing the same word Martin used, this time for a referee.

One of the questions that arises out of this is legalistic: Do NBA players work in an environment that is hostile to gay people? Might that be why no active player has every come out of the closet?

At the league's Board of Governor's meeting in New York on Friday, the NBA's legalistic commissioner, David Stern says: "I don't think so. But I think that left unresponded to, statements like [Bryant's] could lead to a hostile work environment, and we're not going to have it."

Why, then, in an era when it's hard to find large businesses without openly gay employees, has no NBA player ever come out of the closet?

"I think it's ... I don't want to become a social crusader on this issue but I think sports, male sports, has traditionally not been an inviting environment for gay men to identify themselves. But eventually ... we will get to a place where it is not an issue in sports."

Stern acknowledges that it will not be easy for the first player to come out: "It's going to be hard, but it'll happen, I have no doubt about it."

 

[DCAllAfrican]

[h3]David Stern predicts openly gay players[/h3]
April, 15, 2011
Apr 15

2:53

PM ET

• Email
• Print
• Comments37

By Henry Abbott
Archive

3,600 is a big number. That's roughly how many men have played in the NBA through the years.

None has ever come out of the closet while playing.

Just about every two years we get hints as to why:

• In his 2007 book, retired player John Amaechi both came out of the closet, and shared word of bigoted behavior from his former owner and coach.
• In 2009, TV cameras caught Kenyon Martin calling Mavericks owner Mark Cuban a gay slur (NSFW).
• It's 2011, and Kobe Bryant is in the midst of various apologies for directing the same word Martin used, this time for a referee.

One of the questions that arises out of this is legalistic: Do NBA players work in an environment that is hostile to gay people? Might that be why no active player has every come out of the closet?

At the league's Board of Governor's meeting in New York on Friday, the NBA's legalistic commissioner, David Stern says: "I don't think so. But I think that left unresponded to, statements like [Bryant's] could lead to a hostile work environment, and we're not going to have it."

Why, then, in an era when it's hard to find large businesses without openly gay employees, has no NBA player ever come out of the closet?

"I think it's ... I don't want to become a social crusader on this issue but I think sports, male sports, has traditionally not been an inviting environment for gay men to identify themselves. But eventually ... we will get to a place where it is not an issue in sports."

Stern acknowledges that it will not be easy for the first player to come out: "It's going to be hard, but it'll happen, I have no doubt about it."

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

Originally Posted by BK201

Originally Posted by Degenerate423



You can hide your sexual orientation if you want to, I can't hide my race/skin color...

That doesn't matter because at the end of the day people of color and people that are gay are being discriminated against because of who they are.

No, people of color are being discriminated against because of "what" they are not because of "who" they are.  Yes, discrimination is discrimination, but to say that a gay, white male is just as looked down upon by society as a straight, asian/african/latino is almost comical.  9 times out of 10, none of us can even tell a gay person from a straight person, but you can definitely look at me and tell my ethnicity with more certainty.  Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that gays are whining about nothing, they definitely have legitimate issues in society, I just don't think discrimination against gays is on the same level as racism...

Originally Posted by Method Man

You can hide your sexual orientation if you want to, I can't hide my race/skin color...

And I shouldn't have to try to conceal my ethnicity, but we don't live in a perfect world.  Like I said, most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is.  I'm being judged before I even say a word, and somehow I'm supposed to believe that someone's sexual orientation is giving them as much problems as my skin color/ethnicity gives me?  I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hard to comprehend...



-Um so being discriminated for what you are is more important than for "who" you are? Is there even a difference?

-Clearly the fact that homosexuals have to stay in the closet and hide "who" or "what" they are means they aren't exactly fully accepted by society. Do you know how it must feel to be a certain way but not be allowed to fully express it. Imagine if liking white women could get me killed, do you know how devastated I would be?

Some dude that cuts hair at my barber shop went on a rant about taking his daughter out of a  preschool cause the teacher was gay. Even my barber was like "aye mang that's hella ignant".

Clearly the dude could tell the teacher was gay....so all of a sudden now people are gonna front like they can't tell if someone is gay or not? There are people in here who acknowledge gay mannerisms and stereotypes, then contradict themselves by saying they can't tell if someone is gay or not.

-So is there a rank of the "what" that matters more when it comes to discrimination/prejudice. Ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, culture-which of these "isms" matters the most. Because many of these "whats" can actually be concealed....so according to you that must put race at the top and somehow lessen the importance of the other struggles. What happens when the conflict/ prejudice is between 2 people of the same "what" (can't be differentiated phenotypically)? Does it make the prejudices between the two groups any less important?-for example you can hide your religious affiliation to escape discrimination but why the hell should anyone have to if you're a minority?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

Originally Posted by BK201

Originally Posted by Degenerate423



You can hide your sexual orientation if you want to, I can't hide my race/skin color...

That doesn't matter because at the end of the day people of color and people that are gay are being discriminated against because of who they are.

No, people of color are being discriminated against because of "what" they are not because of "who" they are.  Yes, discrimination is discrimination, but to say that a gay, white male is just as looked down upon by society as a straight, asian/african/latino is almost comical.  9 times out of 10, none of us can even tell a gay person from a straight person, but you can definitely look at me and tell my ethnicity with more certainty.  Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that gays are whining about nothing, they definitely have legitimate issues in society, I just don't think discrimination against gays is on the same level as racism...

Originally Posted by Method Man

You can hide your sexual orientation if you want to, I can't hide my race/skin color...

And I shouldn't have to try to conceal my ethnicity, but we don't live in a perfect world.  Like I said, most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is.  I'm being judged before I even say a word, and somehow I'm supposed to believe that someone's sexual orientation is giving them as much problems as my skin color/ethnicity gives me?  I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hard to comprehend...



-Um so being discriminated for what you are is more important than for "who" you are? Is there even a difference?

-Clearly the fact that homosexuals have to stay in the closet and hide "who" or "what" they are means they aren't exactly fully accepted by society. Do you know how it must feel to be a certain way but not be allowed to fully express it. Imagine if liking white women could get me killed, do you know how devastated I would be?

Some dude that cuts hair at my barber shop went on a rant about taking his daughter out of a  preschool cause the teacher was gay. Even my barber was like "aye mang that's hella ignant".

Clearly the dude could tell the teacher was gay....so all of a sudden now people are gonna front like they can't tell if someone is gay or not? There are people in here who acknowledge gay mannerisms and stereotypes, then contradict themselves by saying they can't tell if someone is gay or not.

-So is there a rank of the "what" that matters more when it comes to discrimination/prejudice. Ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, culture-which of these "isms" matters the most. Because many of these "whats" can actually be concealed....so according to you that must put race at the top and somehow lessen the importance of the other struggles. What happens when the conflict/ prejudice is between 2 people of the same "what" (can't be differentiated phenotypically)? Does it make the prejudices between the two groups any less important?-for example you can hide your religious affiliation to escape discrimination but why the hell should anyone have to if you're a minority?

 

[bk201]

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

Originally Posted by BK201

Originally Posted by Degenerate423



You can hide your sexual orientation if you want to, I can't hide my race/skin color...

That doesn't matter because at the end of the day people of color and people that are gay are being discriminated against because of who they are.

No, people of color are being discriminated against because of "what" they are not because of "who" they are.  Yes, discrimination is discrimination, but to say that a gay, white male is just as looked down upon by society as a straight, asian/african/latino is almost comical.  9 times out of 10, none of us can even tell a gay person from a straight person, but you can definitely look at me and tell my ethnicity with more certainty.  Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that gays are whining about nothing, they definitely have legitimate issues in society, I just don't think discrimination against gays is on the same level as racism...

Originally Posted by Method Man

You can hide your sexual orientation if you want to, I can't hide my race/skin color...

And I shouldn't have to try to conceal my ethnicity, but we don't live in a perfect world.  Like I said, most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is.  I'm being judged before I even say a word, and somehow I'm supposed to believe that someone's sexual orientation is giving them as much problems as my skin color/ethnicity gives me?  I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hard to comprehend...

 If we're speaking about Gays in America then maybe your point can hold weight but in a world view Gays are being killed for being gay so yes it on the same level as racism. Injustice is injustice.

The severity of their problems that gays get are debatable from region to region. Never have I thought of killing myself because I was black. Never have I painted my skin white in order to appear as if I'm not black.
Thoughts about suicide or pretending to be straight are things that some gays have had to go through.
I don't know about you but I know suicide has got to be a problem that's ranked highly in comparison to a list of problems that blacks have to deal with. And I'm just talking about America.

Hell in other countries Nigeria and Uganda for instance you get killed for being gay.

I hope you can understand that maybe just maybe someone that is gay may suffer from the same level of problems you get for your skin as they do for their sexual orientation.

 

[bk201]

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

Originally Posted by BK201

Originally Posted by Degenerate423



You can hide your sexual orientation if you want to, I can't hide my race/skin color...

That doesn't matter because at the end of the day people of color and people that are gay are being discriminated against because of who they are.

No, people of color are being discriminated against because of "what" they are not because of "who" they are.  Yes, discrimination is discrimination, but to say that a gay, white male is just as looked down upon by society as a straight, asian/african/latino is almost comical.  9 times out of 10, none of us can even tell a gay person from a straight person, but you can definitely look at me and tell my ethnicity with more certainty.  Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that gays are whining about nothing, they definitely have legitimate issues in society, I just don't think discrimination against gays is on the same level as racism...

Originally Posted by Method Man

You can hide your sexual orientation if you want to, I can't hide my race/skin color...

And I shouldn't have to try to conceal my ethnicity, but we don't live in a perfect world.  Like I said, most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is.  I'm being judged before I even say a word, and somehow I'm supposed to believe that someone's sexual orientation is giving them as much problems as my skin color/ethnicity gives me?  I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hard to comprehend...

 If we're speaking about Gays in America then maybe your point can hold weight but in a world view Gays are being killed for being gay so yes it on the same level as racism. Injustice is injustice.

The severity of their problems that gays get are debatable from region to region. Never have I thought of killing myself because I was black. Never have I painted my skin white in order to appear as if I'm not black.
Thoughts about suicide or pretending to be straight are things that some gays have had to go through.
I don't know about you but I know suicide has got to be a problem that's ranked highly in comparison to a list of problems that blacks have to deal with. And I'm just talking about America.

Hell in other countries Nigeria and Uganda for instance you get killed for being gay.

I hope you can understand that maybe just maybe someone that is gay may suffer from the same level of problems you get for your skin as they do for their sexual orientation.

 

[dj b milk]

btw... black people are far from achieving equality in America. Supporting the denial of rights to other minority groups doesn't help AT ALL. A rising tide raises all boats people...

 

[dj b milk]

btw... black people are far from achieving equality in America. Supporting the denial of rights to other minority groups doesn't help AT ALL. A rising tide raises all boats people...

 

[Mound Raised]

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is
  

i dont even see how this can be argued...i just dont

 

[Mound Raised]

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is
  

i dont even see how this can be argued...i just dont

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by moundraised23

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is
  

i dont even see how this can be argued...i just dont

Why does it need to be argued?.....why was this brought up in this thread? Because I think all civil rights battles are worth fighting and because I think the black civil rights movement can be used as inspiration? Black people have dark skin....and people can tell, what's your point? Does it mean homosexuals are any less discriminated against world wide? Or does this mean they should just lay low and not express themselves openly?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by moundraised23

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is
  

i dont even see how this can be argued...i just dont

Why does it need to be argued?.....why was this brought up in this thread? Because I think all civil rights battles are worth fighting and because I think the black civil rights movement can be used as inspiration? Black people have dark skin....and people can tell, what's your point? Does it mean homosexuals are any less discriminated against world wide? Or does this mean they should just lay low and not express themselves openly?

 

[hisfreshness]

the whole situation is bull... but i know dude was mad as hell next to him...lol

 

[hisfreshness]

the whole situation is bull... but i know dude was mad as hell next to him...lol

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by hisfreshness

the whole situation is bull... but i know dude was mad as hell next to him...lol

that's what we really need to discuss in this thread....how composed my mans was after kobe hit him blatantly

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by hisfreshness

the whole situation is bull... but i know dude was mad as hell next to him...lol

that's what we really need to discuss in this thread....how composed my mans was after kobe hit him blatantly

 

[degenerate423]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

Originally Posted by BK201

That doesn't matter because at the end of the day people of color and people that are gay are being discriminated against because of who they are.

No, people of color are being discriminated against because of "what" they are not because of "who" they are.  Yes, discrimination is discrimination, but to say that a gay, white male is just as looked down upon by society as a straight, asian/african/latino is almost comical.  9 times out of 10, none of us can even tell a gay person from a straight person, but you can definitely look at me and tell my ethnicity with more certainty.  Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that gays are whining about nothing, they definitely have legitimate issues in society, I just don't think discrimination against gays is on the same level as racism...

Originally Posted by Method Man


I believe part of the point is that you shouldn't have to conceal your sexual orientation.  

And I shouldn't have to try to conceal my ethnicity, but we don't live in a perfect world.  Like I said, most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is.  I'm being judged before I even say a word, and somehow I'm supposed to believe that someone's sexual orientation is giving them as much problems as my skin color/ethnicity gives me?  I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hard to comprehend...

-Um so being discriminated for what you are is more important than for "who" you are? Is there even a difference?

-Clearly the fact that homosexuals have to stay in the closet and hide "who" or "what" they are means they aren't exactly fully accepted by society. Do you know how it must feel to be a certain way but not be allowed to fully express it. Imagine if liking white women could get me killed, do you know how devastated I would be?

Some dude that cuts hair at my barber shop went on a rant about taking his daughter out of a  preschool cause the teacher was gay. Even my barber was like "aye mang that's hella ignant".

Clearly the dude could tell the teacher was gay....so all of a sudden now people are gonna front like they can't tell if someone is gay or not? There are people in here who acknowledge gay mannerisms and stereotypes, then contradict themselves by saying they can't tell if someone is gay or not.

-So is there a rank of the "what" that matters more when it comes to discrimination/prejudice. Ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, culture-which of these "isms" matters the most. Because many of these "whats" can actually be concealed....so according to you that must put race at the top and somehow lessen the importance of the other struggles. What happens when the conflict/ prejudice is between 2 people of the same "what" (can't be differentiated phenotypically)? Does it make the prejudices between the two groups any less important?-for example you can hide your religious affiliation to escape discrimination but why the hell should anyone have to if you're a minority?

- What?  The point I was trying to make was colored people aren't discriminated against because of "who" they are.  For example: some people aren't going to give me a chance in an interview simply based on what my skin color/ethnicity is regardless of the type of person I am, my qualifications, etc.

- Must be worse than being put in a concentration camp based on your ethnicity, or being detained at the airport because of your last name, or being harassed by police just for "looking" a certain way right?

- Are there not parents that pull out kids from classes because their teacher is a certain ethnicity?

- I hate to say it, but could you honestly say that a gay person has had more, or just as many hardships, as a Jewish person during the holocaust, a Japanese person during WWII in America, or a Middle Eastern/Indian person after 9/11?  If you can honestly say yes then I respect your opinion, and we can leave it at that.

Originally Posted by BK201

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

Originally Posted by BK201

That doesn't matter because at the end of the day people of color and people that are gay are being discriminated against because of who they are.

No, people of color are being discriminated against because of "what" they are not because of "who" they are.  Yes, discrimination is discrimination, but to say that a gay, white male is just as looked down upon by society as a straight, asian/african/latino is almost comical.  9 times out of 10, none of us can even tell a gay person from a straight person, but you can definitely look at me and tell my ethnicity with more certainty.  Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that gays are whining about nothing, they definitely have legitimate issues in society, I just don't think discrimination against gays is on the same level as racism...

Originally Posted by Method Man


I believe part of the point is that you shouldn't have to conceal your sexual orientation.  

And I shouldn't have to try to conceal my ethnicity, but we don't live in a perfect world.  Like I said, most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is.  I'm being judged before I even say a word, and somehow I'm supposed to believe that someone's sexual orientation is giving them as much problems as my skin color/ethnicity gives me?  I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hard to comprehend...

 If we're speaking about Gays in America then maybe your point can hold weight but in a world view Gays are being killed for being gay so yes it on the same level as racism. Injustice is injustice.

The severity of their problems that gays get are debatable from region to region. Never have I thought of killing myself because I was black. Never have I painted my skin white in order to appear as if I'm not black.
Thoughts about suicide or pretending to be straight are things that some gays have had to go through.
I don't know about you but I know suicide has got to be a problem that's ranked highly in comparison to a list of problems that blacks have to deal with. And I'm just talking about America.

Hell in other countries Nigeria and Uganda for instance you get killed for being gay.

I hope you can understand that maybe just maybe someone that is gay may suffer from the same level of problems you get for your skin as they do for their sexual orientation.

Just so you know, kids do get bullied because of their ethnicity and some of them do end up committing suicide.

You would probably get killed for being in those countries anyway, at least in Nigeria.

 

[degenerate423]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

Originally Posted by BK201

That doesn't matter because at the end of the day people of color and people that are gay are being discriminated against because of who they are.

No, people of color are being discriminated against because of "what" they are not because of "who" they are.  Yes, discrimination is discrimination, but to say that a gay, white male is just as looked down upon by society as a straight, asian/african/latino is almost comical.  9 times out of 10, none of us can even tell a gay person from a straight person, but you can definitely look at me and tell my ethnicity with more certainty.  Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that gays are whining about nothing, they definitely have legitimate issues in society, I just don't think discrimination against gays is on the same level as racism...

Originally Posted by Method Man


I believe part of the point is that you shouldn't have to conceal your sexual orientation.  

And I shouldn't have to try to conceal my ethnicity, but we don't live in a perfect world.  Like I said, most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is.  I'm being judged before I even say a word, and somehow I'm supposed to believe that someone's sexual orientation is giving them as much problems as my skin color/ethnicity gives me?  I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hard to comprehend...

-Um so being discriminated for what you are is more important than for "who" you are? Is there even a difference?

-Clearly the fact that homosexuals have to stay in the closet and hide "who" or "what" they are means they aren't exactly fully accepted by society. Do you know how it must feel to be a certain way but not be allowed to fully express it. Imagine if liking white women could get me killed, do you know how devastated I would be?

Some dude that cuts hair at my barber shop went on a rant about taking his daughter out of a  preschool cause the teacher was gay. Even my barber was like "aye mang that's hella ignant".

Clearly the dude could tell the teacher was gay....so all of a sudden now people are gonna front like they can't tell if someone is gay or not? There are people in here who acknowledge gay mannerisms and stereotypes, then contradict themselves by saying they can't tell if someone is gay or not.

-So is there a rank of the "what" that matters more when it comes to discrimination/prejudice. Ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, culture-which of these "isms" matters the most. Because many of these "whats" can actually be concealed....so according to you that must put race at the top and somehow lessen the importance of the other struggles. What happens when the conflict/ prejudice is between 2 people of the same "what" (can't be differentiated phenotypically)? Does it make the prejudices between the two groups any less important?-for example you can hide your religious affiliation to escape discrimination but why the hell should anyone have to if you're a minority?

- What?  The point I was trying to make was colored people aren't discriminated against because of "who" they are.  For example: some people aren't going to give me a chance in an interview simply based on what my skin color/ethnicity is regardless of the type of person I am, my qualifications, etc.

- Must be worse than being put in a concentration camp based on your ethnicity, or being detained at the airport because of your last name, or being harassed by police just for "looking" a certain way right?

- Are there not parents that pull out kids from classes because their teacher is a certain ethnicity?

- I hate to say it, but could you honestly say that a gay person has had more, or just as many hardships, as a Jewish person during the holocaust, a Japanese person during WWII in America, or a Middle Eastern/Indian person after 9/11?  If you can honestly say yes then I respect your opinion, and we can leave it at that.

Originally Posted by BK201

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

Originally Posted by BK201

That doesn't matter because at the end of the day people of color and people that are gay are being discriminated against because of who they are.

No, people of color are being discriminated against because of "what" they are not because of "who" they are.  Yes, discrimination is discrimination, but to say that a gay, white male is just as looked down upon by society as a straight, asian/african/latino is almost comical.  9 times out of 10, none of us can even tell a gay person from a straight person, but you can definitely look at me and tell my ethnicity with more certainty.  Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that gays are whining about nothing, they definitely have legitimate issues in society, I just don't think discrimination against gays is on the same level as racism...

Originally Posted by Method Man


I believe part of the point is that you shouldn't have to conceal your sexual orientation.  

And I shouldn't have to try to conceal my ethnicity, but we don't live in a perfect world.  Like I said, most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is.  I'm being judged before I even say a word, and somehow I'm supposed to believe that someone's sexual orientation is giving them as much problems as my skin color/ethnicity gives me?  I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hard to comprehend...

 If we're speaking about Gays in America then maybe your point can hold weight but in a world view Gays are being killed for being gay so yes it on the same level as racism. Injustice is injustice.

The severity of their problems that gays get are debatable from region to region. Never have I thought of killing myself because I was black. Never have I painted my skin white in order to appear as if I'm not black.
Thoughts about suicide or pretending to be straight are things that some gays have had to go through.
I don't know about you but I know suicide has got to be a problem that's ranked highly in comparison to a list of problems that blacks have to deal with. And I'm just talking about America.

Hell in other countries Nigeria and Uganda for instance you get killed for being gay.

I hope you can understand that maybe just maybe someone that is gay may suffer from the same level of problems you get for your skin as they do for their sexual orientation.

Just so you know, kids do get bullied because of their ethnicity and some of them do end up committing suicide.

You would probably get killed for being in those countries anyway, at least in Nigeria.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Degenerate423


No, people of color are being discriminated against because of "what" they are not because of "who" they are.  Yes, discrimination is discrimination, but to say that a gay, white male is just as looked down upon by society as a straight, asian/african/latino is almost comical.  9 times out of 10, none of us can even tell a gay person from a straight person, but you can definitely look at me and tell my ethnicity with more certainty.  Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that gays are whining about nothing, they definitely have legitimate issues in society, I just don't think discrimination against gays is on the same level as racism...
And I shouldn't have to try to conceal my ethnicity, but we don't live in a perfect world.  Like I said, most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is.  I'm being judged before I even say a word, and somehow I'm supposed to believe that someone's sexual orientation is giving them as much problems as my skin color/ethnicity gives me?  I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hard to comprehend...

-Um so being discriminated for what you are is more important than for "who" you are? Is there even a difference?

-Clearly the fact that homosexuals have to stay in the closet and hide "who" or "what" they are means they aren't exactly fully accepted by society. Do you know how it must feel to be a certain way but not be allowed to fully express it. Imagine if liking white women could get me killed, do you know how devastated I would be?

Some dude that cuts hair at my barber shop went on a rant about taking his daughter out of a  preschool cause the teacher was gay. Even my barber was like "aye mang that's hella ignant".

Clearly the dude could tell the teacher was gay....so all of a sudden now people are gonna front like they can't tell if someone is gay or not? There are people in here who acknowledge gay mannerisms and stereotypes, then contradict themselves by saying they can't tell if someone is gay or not.

-So is there a rank of the "what" that matters more when it comes to discrimination/prejudice. Ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, culture-which of these "isms" matters the most. Because many of these "whats" can actually be concealed....so according to you that must put race at the top and somehow lessen the importance of the other struggles. What happens when the conflict/ prejudice is between 2 people of the same "what" (can't be differentiated phenotypically)? Does it make the prejudices between the two groups any less important?-for example you can hide your religious affiliation to escape discrimination but why the hell should anyone have to if you're a minority?

- What?  The point I was trying to make was colored people aren't discriminated against because of "who" they are.  For example: some people aren't going to give me a chance in an interview simply based on what my skin color/ethnicity is regardless of the type of person I am, my qualifications, etc.

- Must be worse than being put in a concentration camp based on your ethnicity, or being detained at the airport because of your last name, or being harassed by police just for "looking" a certain way right?

- Are there not parents that pull out kids from classes because their teacher is a certain ethnicity?

- I hate to say it, but could you honestly say that a gay person has had more, or just as many hardships, as a Jewish person during the holocaust, a Japanese person during WWII in America, or a Middle Eastern/Indian person after 9/11?  If you can honestly say yes then I respect your opinion, and we can leave it at that.

I never said that, you're the fool that is comparing the levels of hardship of one "ism" to another. My original assertion was that all struggles for civil rights are important. Gay people died during the holocaust and continue to die today because of their sexual orientation. Learn some history and current events outside your one block radius. I'm not the one ranting about who's had it better or worse

. Every struggle for humanity and civil rights can inspire one another.

I clearly brought up the teacher to show that it isn't as hard to spot a homosexual as you're making it out to be (which is ironic cause people saying this in this thread will be the first to list gay mannerism and stereotypes), never ever ever did I say black people haven't lost jobs simply because they're black. No one lacks this much reading comprehension/interpretation. Funny thing is you're the only one in this argument making any assertions about who has it worse...or better. I refuse to stoop to that level of ignorance, it defeats the purpose of my stance against discrimination and prejudice.

For a lot of those other "isms" I brought up, I could go on ignorant rants like you did about how they can "HIDE THEMSELVES". Skin color is a lot more obvious a trait than religion or even ethnicity-yes ethnicity and race aren't synonymous but you don't see me ranting about how the palestinians can save themselves by simply not being muslim anymore.


Cliff notes: I'm not the one saying whose struggle is more important than whose....don't try to pin that ignorance on me.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Degenerate423

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Degenerate423


No, people of color are being discriminated against because of "what" they are not because of "who" they are.  Yes, discrimination is discrimination, but to say that a gay, white male is just as looked down upon by society as a straight, asian/african/latino is almost comical.  9 times out of 10, none of us can even tell a gay person from a straight person, but you can definitely look at me and tell my ethnicity with more certainty.  Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that gays are whining about nothing, they definitely have legitimate issues in society, I just don't think discrimination against gays is on the same level as racism...
And I shouldn't have to try to conceal my ethnicity, but we don't live in a perfect world.  Like I said, most people these days can't even tell if someone is gay, but they can look at me and tell what my ethnicity is.  I'm being judged before I even say a word, and somehow I'm supposed to believe that someone's sexual orientation is giving them as much problems as my skin color/ethnicity gives me?  I'm not gonna lie, it's pretty hard to comprehend...

-Um so being discriminated for what you are is more important than for "who" you are? Is there even a difference?

-Clearly the fact that homosexuals have to stay in the closet and hide "who" or "what" they are means they aren't exactly fully accepted by society. Do you know how it must feel to be a certain way but not be allowed to fully express it. Imagine if liking white women could get me killed, do you know how devastated I would be?

Some dude that cuts hair at my barber shop went on a rant about taking his daughter out of a  preschool cause the teacher was gay. Even my barber was like "aye mang that's hella ignant".

Clearly the dude could tell the teacher was gay....so all of a sudden now people are gonna front like they can't tell if someone is gay or not? There are people in here who acknowledge gay mannerisms and stereotypes, then contradict themselves by saying they can't tell if someone is gay or not.

-So is there a rank of the "what" that matters more when it comes to discrimination/prejudice. Ethnicity, race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, culture-which of these "isms" matters the most. Because many of these "whats" can actually be concealed....so according to you that must put race at the top and somehow lessen the importance of the other struggles. What happens when the conflict/ prejudice is between 2 people of the same "what" (can't be differentiated phenotypically)? Does it make the prejudices between the two groups any less important?-for example you can hide your religious affiliation to escape discrimination but why the hell should anyone have to if you're a minority?

- What?  The point I was trying to make was colored people aren't discriminated against because of "who" they are.  For example: some people aren't going to give me a chance in an interview simply based on what my skin color/ethnicity is regardless of the type of person I am, my qualifications, etc.

- Must be worse than being put in a concentration camp based on your ethnicity, or being detained at the airport because of your last name, or being harassed by police just for "looking" a certain way right?

- Are there not parents that pull out kids from classes because their teacher is a certain ethnicity?

- I hate to say it, but could you honestly say that a gay person has had more, or just as many hardships, as a Jewish person during the holocaust, a Japanese person during WWII in America, or a Middle Eastern/Indian person after 9/11?  If you can honestly say yes then I respect your opinion, and we can leave it at that.

I never said that, you're the fool that is comparing the levels of hardship of one "ism" to another. My original assertion was that all struggles for civil rights are important. Gay people died during the holocaust and continue to die today because of their sexual orientation. Learn some history and current events outside your one block radius. I'm not the one ranting about who's had it better or worse

. Every struggle for humanity and civil rights can inspire one another.

I clearly brought up the teacher to show that it isn't as hard to spot a homosexual as you're making it out to be (which is ironic cause people saying this in this thread will be the first to list gay mannerism and stereotypes), never ever ever did I say black people haven't lost jobs simply because they're black. No one lacks this much reading comprehension/interpretation. Funny thing is you're the only one in this argument making any assertions about who has it worse...or better. I refuse to stoop to that level of ignorance, it defeats the purpose of my stance against discrimination and prejudice.

For a lot of those other "isms" I brought up, I could go on ignorant rants like you did about how they can "HIDE THEMSELVES". Skin color is a lot more obvious a trait than religion or even ethnicity-yes ethnicity and race aren't synonymous but you don't see me ranting about how the palestinians can save themselves by simply not being muslim anymore.


Cliff notes: I'm not the one saying whose struggle is more important than whose....don't try to pin that ignorance on me.

 

[truthgetsbusy]

Originally Posted by eaalto

TruthGetsBusy wrote:
But everyday I step into work I will be black before I open my mouth.  No choices

In the same sense that you can't tell a gay man from his outward appearance, you could also not distinguish a "black" man either.  I'm not saying this to be directly offensive, but a lot of people are familiar with the expressions "acting black" vs. "acting white," and how far one or the other will get you in corporate America.  Just like there are gays that act outwardly flamboyant, there are also others that could more or less pass for heterosexual if you didn't know any better.  Could you say the same about black people?  There are some that act "ghetto/black" and spew out a bunch of urban slang, or some that act "white" and speak proper English?
So you're saying that gays can choose to act heterosexual if it suits them, can you choose to act "white"? 

At the end of the day you are who you are.  Your character is who I judge you on, not by your exterior.  Just because you are black, I will not pass judgment on you.  If you talk like an idiot who says dis and dat and drops the N word all the time, I will think you're just that, an idiot.  And I would feel the same if you were black, white, asian, whatever.  But then again, that's because I don't identify with those mannerisms.

And I know it's messed up, but I feel the same way about gays.  I simply get annoyed by the flamboyance and diva attitudes.  But there are straight people who exude that personality type that annoy me all the same.  

So I don't buy into your "I'm black before I open my mouth," because you can choose how you are perceived by whoever is perceiving you.  You can act ghetto, you can act proper.  You can speak in Ebonics, or like a college graduate.  

Unless you're living in the wrong place, America has come a long way with regards to race relations.  Just saying.

I still agree with Anton on this...if you take offense to the Civil Rights/LGBT comparison, there seems to be some underlying intolerance of gays.  And I know that a lot of blacks really disapprove of homosexuality.  Not saying there aren't a lot of whites that agree with them, but it's kind of a load of +##% when you preach about the hardships that blacks went through and can't even draw a parallel to the homosexuals.  

I hope I'm not off base in saying it's probably just as hurtful to be called a homosexual slur as it is to be called a racial slur, if there is hate behind it.



  

 how many stereotypes did you just drop?  You clearly are not fit for a discussion like this. 

This has nothing to do with "acting" black or white.  And whatever that means. 

 This is simply people using their eyes to identify people as black,white, latino, asian, etc.  Point blank period.  Don't go into that "acting" ghetto or "proper" crap because that's a whole new can of worms and you clearly don't know what you're talking about.  Minorities don't get discriminated against because they have "ghetto" or other personality traits.  Alot of prejudice occurs without or before we even get a chance to show our personality.  Don't be silly.  And believe it or not in some cases it doesn't matter how smart or qualified we are because at the end of the day we are a minority. 


What the hell is acting "gay"? Like I said before the details of your personal life aren't to be exposed at job, walking down the street, or doing whatever.  NOBODY CARES OR KNOWS IF A STRANGER IS GAY.  I doesn't mean they are hiding it...it just means they look like any other human walking down the street.  BUT YOU CAN DIRECTLY PICK OUT A PERSON'S SKIN COLOR.  Imagine how hard a gay black man has it....yeah see my point.  He still has to deal with prejudice because of race.

If you don't respect that your whole perspective is wack. And how are you agreeing with Anton when he himself said the two struggles shouldn't be compared.  But you insist on talking crazy about "hiding" your race

 Get serious guy

 

[truthgetsbusy]

Originally Posted by eaalto

TruthGetsBusy wrote:
But everyday I step into work I will be black before I open my mouth.  No choices

In the same sense that you can't tell a gay man from his outward appearance, you could also not distinguish a "black" man either.  I'm not saying this to be directly offensive, but a lot of people are familiar with the expressions "acting black" vs. "acting white," and how far one or the other will get you in corporate America.  Just like there are gays that act outwardly flamboyant, there are also others that could more or less pass for heterosexual if you didn't know any better.  Could you say the same about black people?  There are some that act "ghetto/black" and spew out a bunch of urban slang, or some that act "white" and speak proper English?
So you're saying that gays can choose to act heterosexual if it suits them, can you choose to act "white"? 

At the end of the day you are who you are.  Your character is who I judge you on, not by your exterior.  Just because you are black, I will not pass judgment on you.  If you talk like an idiot who says dis and dat and drops the N word all the time, I will think you're just that, an idiot.  And I would feel the same if you were black, white, asian, whatever.  But then again, that's because I don't identify with those mannerisms.

And I know it's messed up, but I feel the same way about gays.  I simply get annoyed by the flamboyance and diva attitudes.  But there are straight people who exude that personality type that annoy me all the same.  

So I don't buy into your "I'm black before I open my mouth," because you can choose how you are perceived by whoever is perceiving you.  You can act ghetto, you can act proper.  You can speak in Ebonics, or like a college graduate.  

Unless you're living in the wrong place, America has come a long way with regards to race relations.  Just saying.

I still agree with Anton on this...if you take offense to the Civil Rights/LGBT comparison, there seems to be some underlying intolerance of gays.  And I know that a lot of blacks really disapprove of homosexuality.  Not saying there aren't a lot of whites that agree with them, but it's kind of a load of +##% when you preach about the hardships that blacks went through and can't even draw a parallel to the homosexuals.  

I hope I'm not off base in saying it's probably just as hurtful to be called a homosexual slur as it is to be called a racial slur, if there is hate behind it.



  

 how many stereotypes did you just drop?  You clearly are not fit for a discussion like this. 

This has nothing to do with "acting" black or white.  And whatever that means. 

 This is simply people using their eyes to identify people as black,white, latino, asian, etc.  Point blank period.  Don't go into that "acting" ghetto or "proper" crap because that's a whole new can of worms and you clearly don't know what you're talking about.  Minorities don't get discriminated against because they have "ghetto" or other personality traits.  Alot of prejudice occurs without or before we even get a chance to show our personality.  Don't be silly.  And believe it or not in some cases it doesn't matter how smart or qualified we are because at the end of the day we are a minority. 


What the hell is acting "gay"? Like I said before the details of your personal life aren't to be exposed at job, walking down the street, or doing whatever.  NOBODY CARES OR KNOWS IF A STRANGER IS GAY.  I doesn't mean they are hiding it...it just means they look like any other human walking down the street.  BUT YOU CAN DIRECTLY PICK OUT A PERSON'S SKIN COLOR.  Imagine how hard a gay black man has it....yeah see my point.  He still has to deal with prejudice because of race.

If you don't respect that your whole perspective is wack. And how are you agreeing with Anton when he himself said the two struggles shouldn't be compared.  But you insist on talking crazy about "hiding" your race

 Get serious guy