Giving Tip for Delivery?

[aksuited]

http://www.bbcamerica.com/mind-the-...-how-to-do-it-and-what-to-expect-if-you-dont/

 

[bilboshmangins]

 

 
you're obviously not very bright. And that is fine as well, hopefully someone else finds utility in what was posted. I just found it to be an interesting read.

You found it to be interesting because a LOT of it reinforces your opinions. And keep taking shots breh, I'm not insecure and it just shows your continued level of frustration with me. I'm actually very intelligent. I'd even be willing to wager that my IQ is higher than yours. We are neither here nor there, but it's laughable that you are now taking shots at my intelligence level. Keep up with the insults, it's pretty  much all you've got.

I am not frustrated by you, I am amused by you. Here is why:

-You repeatedly ask me to corroborate my opinions. And I usually do, I reference academic studies and opinions of restaurant proffesionals; and yet you dismiss them as 'opinions'. But, you nonetheless always fall back on your own opinions citing them as gospel because you 'WORK' in the industry.

-You have repeatedly quoted articles/sources that validate my view of things. I hope you now see why I say that you're not 'very bright'.

Sure, you may be bright, but not 'very' bright. 

And now you're bringing IQ's into the equation...(who sounds frustrated).

 

[bilboshmangins]

 

 
http://elliott.org/blog/why-you-should-tip-25-percent/

notice the poll at the bottom.

Obviously you are missing the point here (which is ironic since you insist on taking shots at my intelligence level). Obviously, posting the article was meant to infer what I've been saying all along. Articles are pointless. There are a million for every side of every debate. This one was obviously meant to show the other extreme. It's obviously written by someone who tips very heavy. Sources matter. Stop with the pointless articles because there are a million more that side with me as well.

Of course 25% is too much, as an average. I never average 25% over an entire month. But for an evening? Sure. I would also agree that if everyone tipped 25% it would be too much. LOL...I'd be making ridiculous cash for the level of work I do if it went down like that every single night.

what do you think would happen if there were polls on the articles that enforce not tipping the server. If the poll read....Stiffing the server is the proper thing to do. yes or no? You don't think the overwhelming majority, would vote against that? Okaaaaaay. Keep reading articles breh.

I think you have missed the whole point.

The point is that tipping is inherently absurd, and is a disservice to all involved. I thought that you would have caught on to that by now. God bless you and how you make your living, but it is an absurd practice. Common sense, economic sense, and all types of sense proves that it is an absurd practice, and it only carries on because people are guilted into the whole thing.

 

[aksuited]

 
I think you have missed the whole point.

The point is that tipping is inherently absurd, and is a disservice to all involved. I thought that you would have caught on to that by now. God bless you and how you make your living, but it is an absurd practice. Common sense, economic sense, and all types of sense proves that it is an absurd practice, and it only carries on because people are guilted into the whole thing.

How is it a disservice to me? How is it a disservice to the customer? If they adjusted prices to meet the income we make, you'd still be tipping us in so many words. But you'd BE FORCED TO. You couldn't stiff the waiter because the service was piss poor. You'd just have to overpay for your meal. That seems like more of a disservice to the customer IMO. Leave it up to the customer to decide how much they pay, depending on the level of service they fell they got. Seems more far to me. Did I suck bad? Fine....don't tip me. Did I kinda suck? FIne tip me a little. Did I do great? Fine....Reward me accordingly, IF YOU FEEL LIKE IT. Flat rate for everyone = You pay for service no matter what.

Do you know what the prices would be like if they had to cater to what I make per hour? They'd have to come up with a medial figure, and not one that meets my level of productivity. The below average servers would be over paid, and the above average servers would be underpaid. I know I'd try a lot less and take on a lot less tables to scale my efforts down to meet the medial wage I'm being paid. The below average servers, however, would continue to be just that...because that's the best they can do. So the disservice would be more on the customers end, who would be receiving average service at best, with no incentive to try and "earn that big tip".

That's the thing about being a waiter. We try harder for you then most other customer service employees because there is no flat rate being earned. While YOU may believe that tips don't vary with level of service, I feel that is completely ridiculous. Sure...some customers tip the same no matter what, but the majority vary it somewhat, whether they vary it by a lot or a little. There is still variance. 

The only people that feel guilted into it are poor tippers. No one thinks about tips as much as you are implying. They just do it, mechanically, and leave.

 

[aksuited]

 
I am not frustrated by you, I am amused by you. Here is why:

-You repeatedly ask me to corroborate my opinions. And I usually do, I reference academic studies and opinions of restaurant proffesionals; and yet you dismiss them as 'opinions'. But, you nonetheless always fall back on your own opinions citing them as gospel because you 'WORK' in the industry.

-You have repeatedly quoted articles/sources that validate my view of things. I hope you now see why I say that you're not 'very bright'.

Sure, you may be bright, but not 'very' bright. 

And now you're bringing IQ's into the equation...(who sounds frustrated).

While I have dismissed the articles points of view as just opinions (which they are), I don't say the same about the studies. What I said about the studies is that they can be constructed and/or skewed to reinforce the hypothesis. Actually, they usually are. I'm sure you learned this somewhere along the way in college (assuming you are attending or have attended).  And I only brought IQ's into the equation after you said "You're not very bright". There is no way you were implying that I was bright, but not very. You were being condescending and you know it.

 

[bilboshmangins]

 

 
I think you have missed the whole point.

The point is that tipping is inherently absurd, and is a disservice to all involved. I thought that you would have caught on to that by now. God bless you and how you make your living, but it is an absurd practice. Common sense, economic sense, and all types of sense proves that it is an absurd practice, and it only carries on because people are guilted into the whole thing.

How is it a disservice to me? How is it a disservice to the customer? If they adjusted prices to meet the income we make, you'd still be tipping us in so many words. But you'd BE FORCED TO. You couldn't stiff the waiter because the service was piss poor. You'd just have to overpay for your meal. That seems like more of a disservice to the customer IMO. Leave it up to the customer to decide how much they pay, depending on the level of service they fell they got. Seems more far to me. Did I suck bad? Fine....don't tip me. Did I kinda suck? FIne tip me a little. Did I do great? Fine....Reward me accordingly, IF YOU FEEL LIKE IT. Flat rate for everyone = You pay for service no matter what.

Do you know what the prices would be like if they had to cater to what I make per hour? They'd have to come up with a medial figure, and not one that meets my level of productivity. The below average servers would be over paid, and the above average servers would be underpaid. I know I'd try a lot less and take on a lot less tables to scale my efforts down to meet the medial wage I'm being paid. The below average servers, however, would continue to be just that...because that's the best they can do. So the disservice would be more on the customers end, who would be receiving average service at best, with no incentive to try and "earn that big tip".

That's the thing about being a waiter. We try harder for you then most other customer service employees because there is no flat rate being earned. While YOU may believe that tips don't vary with level of service, I feel that is completely ridiculous. Sure...some customers tip the same no matter what, but the majority vary it somewhat, whether they vary it by a lot or a little. There is still variance. 

The only people that feel guilted into it are poor tippers. No one thinks about tips as much as you are implying. They just do it, mechanically, and leave.

myths:

http://tippingresearch.com/uploads/managing_tips.pdf

 

[bilboshmangins]

I don't know who you're trying to convince but the facts speak for themselves.

 

[aksuited]

 
I don't know who you're trying to convince but the facts speak for themselves.

Funny you mention facts. Again....what was the demographic here? Higher end restaurants have clientele that vary their tips much less based on service. Secondly, he also mentioned that the studies were conducted in states that pay the federal minimum of 2.15 or whatever it is....which he mentions may have contributed to less variance in tipping, since they aren't getting paid the same as waiters in, California, for example.

Secondly, he first mentions that customers service ratings accounted for less than 2% variance in tipping. But later he mentions that he uses a 5 point scale, and that the another study found that only a 1 point difference in service rating resulted in a 1.5% in tip, which is quite substantial going from just one point to another. He then says by reevaluating the data from the other study found that the difference wasn't really as large as calculated by the original author. 

Do you see what's wrong with studies now? You can't rely on the accuracy or truthfulness of the calculations. I have real world experience. And you're trippin if you think I can just drop my service to average and still make 2-3% more than all of the other waiters in my restaurant (except for the gorgeous females, they'll usually make good money even if they are average servers).

 

[aksuited]

 
I don't know who you're trying to convince but the facts speak for themselves.

I don't know who you're trying to convince with studies that we can't verify the accuracy of, or how heavily skewed the samples were. My real life experience speaks for itself. I'll ask you though. Do you seriously not take the servers performance into consideration when determining how much to tip them? Like fo reals? 

 

[aksuited]

Again....stop reading articles and studies...they can say whatever they want. THey can make it as true as they want depening on how and who they survey. 

Look below....see what I mean? Any side, any argument, represented with uncanny consistency.

http://www.itipping.com/tip-average-restaurant.htm

 

[aksuited]

http://davidlivermore.hubpages.com/question/213626/how-much-do-you-tip-a-bad-waiter-or-waitress

Look at all the people's comments below stating how widely varied they tip. Only a couple people say they always tip 20% unless the experience was really bad. The rest use some sort of personal scale that has a WIDE RANGE assigned to it.

EDIT: Again....this is why articles and studies are pointless. Both extremes are always represented. 

 

[bilboshmangins]

nothing wrong with reading Ak

 

 

[bilboshmangins]

 
http://davidlivermore.hubpages.com/question/213626/how-much-do-you-tip-a-bad-waiter-or-waitress

Look at all the people's comments below stating how widely varied they tip. Only a couple people say they always tip 20% unless the experience was really bad. The rest use some sort of personal scale that has a WIDE RANGE assigned to it.

EDIT: Again....this is why articles and studies are pointless. Both extremes are always represented. 

 

[aksuited]

Yup they are...everyone skews samples to reinforce their hypothesis....This is nothing new.

 

[aksuited]

 
nothing wrong with reading Ak

 

Nothing wrong with being able to read between the lines bilbo 

 

[aksuited]

But I forgot, since you read it, and it's a study, it must be accurate. 

 

[bilboshmangins]

 
But I forgot, since you read it, and it's a study, it must be accurate. 

So I should take your word over a study?

Over multiple studies?

The minute you tell me that makes sense I'll agree that you're not a fool or a troll. 

 

[aksuited]

 
So I should take your word over a study?

Over multiple studies?

The minute you tell me that makes sense I'll agree that you're not a fool or a troll. 

I would take real world experience over any study, unless you conduct the study yourself. See...if you conduct the study yourself, then you know what restaurants you surveyed. You know what area you were in. You know what level of restaurants you were dealing with. You are completely cognizant of the samples in your survey. Otherwise, I take every survey and study with a grain of salt. You just don't have enough info behind the study to accurately assess its credibility. I used to assign more credibility to surveys and studies till I took a statistics class, and a psychology class, and learned first hand how polarly opposite the figures and findings in your research can truly be (depending on how you want your conclusion to end up, thereby skewing the sample intentionally to meet your desired conclusion). You can even configure the research process to arrive at different levels of confidence, standards of deviation, and frequency/total number of outliers. Literally every facet of your study can be taylor made to arrive at any figure or conclusion, depending on how you sample.

And when I say real world experience, I don't mean just mine. Ask friends, ask yourself. I'll ask you again. If the service was poor vs very good, you seriously don't vary your tip? Serious question.

 

[bilboshmangins]

And you don't have to respond 

 

 
So I should take your word over a study?

Over multiple studies?

The minute you tell me that makes sense I'll agree that you're not a fool or a troll. 

I would take real world experience over any study, unless you conduct the study yourself. See...if you conduct the study yourself, then you know what restaurants you surveyed. You know what area you were in. You know what level of restaurants you were dealing with. You are completely cognizant of the samples in your survey. Otherwise, I take every survey and study with a grain of salt. You just don't have enough info behind the study to accurately assess its credibility. 

And when I say real world experience, I don't mean just mine. Ask friends, ask yourself. I'll ask you again. If the service was poor vs very good, you seriously don't vary your tip? Serious question.

But everything I've posted is by people who have worked and still work in the industry.

So you only want studies that are skewed to agree with your way of thinking. That's exactly what you are accusing me of doing, if anyone has a bias in this argument it's you! My dude you get paid of tips, therefore your argument will obviously be skewed and self serving.

Like I said 'convince me that you are not a fool or a troll'?

 

[bilboshmangins]

And when I say real world experience, I don't mean just mine. Ask friends, ask yourself. I'll ask you again. If the service was poor vs very good, you seriously don't vary your tip? Serious question.

I don't care, I don't go to restaurant to judge the 'abilities' or performance of the waitstaff. I go, I am polite I don't act like a douche and expect nothing more than for you to bring my drinks and order. I am not expecting a show, and will not be out looking for a show! I don't care if you are juggling 8 tables, that's not on me that's on your boss.

Therefore my tip is consistent from visit to visit. But I'm not tipping for carryout, and rarely if ever get delivery!

 

[aksuited]

 
And you don't have to respond 

But everything I've posted is by people who have worked and still work in the industry.

So you only want studies that are skewed to agree with your way of thinking. That's exactly what you are accusing me of doing, if anyone has a bias in this argument it's you! My dude you get paid of tips, therefore your argument will obviously be skewed and self serving.

Like I said 'convince me that you are not a fool or a troll'?

Your thought process and logic is losing track. "So you want studies that are skewed to agree with your way of thinking"

Where do you arrive at that conclusion? Didn't I just say that's why studies are not credible? Because they are always skewed to reinforce the author's hypothesis? I'm not accusing you of anything....just pointing out that that's a known common practice in conducting studies.

Secondly, how does whether or not tip size goes up or down with service levels have anything to do with the fact that this "dude gets paid by tips"? It's only a measure of variance, not tip size. I'd be getting paid the same regardless of which one of us is right. If I'm right, I'd get some higher and some lower tips by the same customer depending on my service, thus arriving at an average. If you're right, then every customer tips consistently regardless of my service and I'd just get the same tip every time, arriving at the same average (there just would be no variance).

So your thoughts and logic are getting kind of scattered and not relevant to your own points at the moment.

 

[aksuited]

 
I don't care, I don't go to restaurant to judge the 'abilities' or performance of the waitstaff. I go, I am polite I don't act like a douche and expect nothing more than for you to bring my drinks and order. I am not expecting a show, and will not be out looking for a show! I don't care if you are juggling 8 tables, that's not on me that's on your boss.

Therefore my tip is consistent from visit to visit. But I'm not tipping for carryout, and rarely if ever get delivery!

There is no show....just quality of service. Again, the number of tables I'm taking on is not relevant to you. I take on more tables to make more money. If my service falls short, thats on me, not the customer.

So if I serve you, and you have to wait for every refill a few minutes, the bill, the credit card slip...everything on my end takes a while, and I forget a number of your requests....you'll tip  me the same if I hit all your refills when they are just about empty? And everything you ask for arrives immediately? And you don't have to wait 10 minutes for the bill? And every request you have gets met perfectly? 

If your server was rude, inattentive...and just plain SUCKED....you seriously still tip him?

 

[bilboshmangins]

In the history of all human studies all human studies are not to be trusted if you don't agree with them. 

It's like  talking to a mad man.

 Good luck guy.

Feel free to not respond to my posts.

 

[aksuited]

You've never been out to eat and thought "Seriously, where the hell is my server....I just want my damn refill/check/side of ranch/whatever it is"? Versus...a server that does everything perfectly for you in a timely manner? You seriously never had a really bad waiter, or noticed that your waiter was really good (again, not talking about a "show". eff that...I never put on a show...I just serve tables, that's it.)? Yet you'll tip them the same?

 

[aksuited]

 
In the history of all human studies all human studies are not to be trusted if you don't agree with them. 

It's like  talking to a mad man.

 Good luck guy.

Feel free to not respond to my posts.

Nah....I'll keep responding. And once you understand studies on an academic level, you'll understand that it's not about whether or not you agree with them. It's just comprehending that all studies are skewed to reinforce the hypothesis, regardless of whether or not you agree with them. Just because a study reinforces my opinion, that doesn't mean I just throw out what I know about studies, and assume that THAT one is accurate. It's not...it's just constructed to reinforce the same opinion as mine. Not everyone thinks as subjectively as you.