Good Guy Lucifer Is An Underrated Meme

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Hopefully some will actually look at the evidence posted.
at the end of the day, the evidence if never addressed because no one can refute it. No alternative explanations hold water. The Qur'an is undeniably divine.

 

[tkthafm]

The Hammurabi code is missing sections, and does not even establish the framework for a complete religion. Various Hindu texts have had countless changes made to them (and contain many contradictions/scientific/historical errors) and ironically, some texts even talk of the Prophet Muhammad himself (just as the Bible/Old Testament) - one of the vids I posted previously discusses this in much further detail.

As for the rest, at least you admitted you cannot explain/have no evidence to show who else could have possibly written the Qur'an. The problem is you don't bother to look at the things I posted and continue to claim "there is no evidence to support an Islamic God" ... Of course there is no evidence if YOU don't want there to be any.

How ridiculous of a discussion is this ? There's at least a few days worth of material that I posted; the material is completely ignored as if it's not there, no alternative explanations are given, and the claim of "no evidence" continues to get thrown out. Amazing.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Putty, I'm not going back and forth with you. I have faith in God. I'm not going to argue and debate with you over that. You can continue to believe what you please.

You won.

What's the difference between faith and gullibility?

I don't know if this will answer your question. But I'm far from gullible in my opinion.

I choose to have faith. For the me, belief in God does wonders in day to day living. It puts me at piece with a lot of things.

Also this world can be very evil and defeating at times. I can only hope and pray that someone has our backs at the end of everything.

With so much evil there has to be a polar opposite that represents good. That's just me though.

 

[antonlavey]

um yea im working on creating a new religion thats a spin off of islam, if you kill 20 christians and burn churches in nigeria u get a mansion, a yacht and 2 white women

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Putty, I'm not going back and forth with you. I have faith in God. I'm not going to argue and debate with you over that. You can continue to believe what you please.

You won.

What's the difference between faith and gullibility?

I don't know if this will answer your question. But I'm far from gullible in my opinion.

I choose to have faith. For the me, belief in God does wonders in day to day living. It puts me at piece with a lot of things.

Also this world can be very evil and defeating at times. I can only hope and pray that someone has our backs at the end of everything.

With so much evil there has to be a polar opposite that represents good. That's just me though.

Yeah you were right, you didn't answer my question. What's the difference between the two? You just stated why you chose faith and other reasons for liking it.

With this response it seems like there isn't a difference, just after being gullible you just have to be convicted, stick to w/e your gullible about and then call it faith. I'm sure a person can be gullible about something and being gullible can then do wonders for their day to day living, puts them at peace with a lot of things, gives them reassurance in w/e they're gullible about has their backs in this world that can be defeating and very evil, etc.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Putty, I'm not going back and forth with you. I have faith in God. I'm not going to argue and debate with you over that. You can continue to believe what you please.

You won.

What's the difference between faith and gullibility?

I don't know if this will answer your question. But I'm far from gullible in my opinion.

You ignored every question I asked you. 

 Literally. Thats just not fair man. 
Lets make a deal. You dont ask me anything or address me unless you respond to what I ask you. Cause its just getting ridiculous...

I could understand you responding and me still not being satisfied, but just ignoring everything? Thats foul.

 

I choose to have faith.

As in ignoring the contradictions?

For the me, belief in God does wonders in day to day living.
Tebow's touchdowns or feeding starving christian kids?

It puts me at piece with a lot of things.

Peace =/= Piece
But that aside, how can you be at peace knowing that there are those who are possible MORE pious than you that live in far worse conditions? Does god not hear their cries?

This reeks of selfishness and narcissism. God is great to "ME, MYSELF, and I"

Also this world can be very evil and defeating at times.

Evil is subjective, at best.
But the universe does not owe anyone, anything. Its a harsh reality, but the most we can do is to improve the lives of others that are less fortunate. Prayer alone won't solve that, and you know it.

I can only hope and pray that someone has our backs at the end of everything. 

Lets do an experiment. 
Pray for a million dollars instead of working for it.

With so much evil there has to be a polar opposite that represents good. That's just me though.

But god, is not the opposite of evil. The god of the bible has done some really nasty things. You can't ignore that, no matter how much you try. 

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Originally Posted by tkthafm

 The Hammurabi code is missing sections, and does not even establish the framework for a complete religion. 

What qualifies as a "complete religion," to you? 




Let me guess, anything thats NOT Islam? 

...how predictable.

Various Hindu texts have had countless changes made to them (and contain many contradictions/scientific/historical errors)

The Quran doesn't have contradictions? 




http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/

http://www.islamic.org.uk/internalc.html

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_the_Qur'an

http://carm.org/contradictions-quran

http://www.answering-isla...Quran/Contra/ashraf.html




Get to work on resolving those.




Don't blame it on a "translation error," either. Those are DIRECT contradictions within your "perfect" text. 

and ironically, some texts even talk of the Prophet Muhammad himself (just as the Bible/Old Testament) - one of the vids I posted previously discusses this in much further detail.
 Foretelling a messiah is hardly a new concept at all.



Claiming that prophet or messiah was Muhammad, a name thats not explicitly listed, is dishonest of you.




Thats my mom saying, "one day you will have a daughter" and me magically thinking that my mom has magical powers when the statistics show its a 51% probability that this will occur.

As for the rest, at least you admitted you cannot explain/have no evidence to show who else could have possibly written the Qur'an.

What do you mean "who else could have possibly written the quran" ???



The answer to "I don't know" is not "god"




Get that through your head already.

The problem is you don't bother to look at the things I posted and continue to claim "there is no evidence to support an Islamic God"

You haven't posted anything new. I have looked through everything you've ever posted for months now and nothing stands on its own.



All of your math is wrong.




All of your premises are flawed.




All of your "facts" are skewed...




Nothing you say is objective.




Thats like me asking a priest if he believes the bible is true or not...well duh, hes a priest! At least a scientist will show me the holes in his theory and the work of his critics and work towards making a more cogent argument in the future.

. Of course there is no evidence if YOU don't want there to be any. 

Simple.

Prove the Quran was written by god. 




Prove it.


One thing.




Prove it. 

How ridiculous of a discussion is this ?

You tell me. Your answer to everything is "god"

There's at least a few days worth of material that I posted; the material is completely ignored as if it's not there,

Your material doesn't prove anything.



Its made by muslims with a severe case of confirmation bias

no alternative explanations are given,

Everything I say is an alternative explanation and its far more plausible because it applies to every other religion beyond islam.

and the claim of "no evidence" continues to get thrown out. Amazing.

Providing "evidence" for the sake of saying things DOESNT PROVE ANYTHING.




I can go to court and say "judge I wasn't there, I was at my GF's house" and that isn't enough to PROVE I wasn't elsewhere committing a crime.




Evidence must support the claims being asserted. Being evidence in and of itself is not enough. 




Saying this "came from the quran"...does NOT prove the quran. 

TKTHAFM, address this PLEASE:

God took 23 years to write a holy book.




Why would it take god ANY amount of time to write a holy book?




How is a book "sent down?" 




You mean, a guy says "god talked to him over 23 years?" 




or do you mean "god took 23 years to write a book?"




How is this common sense evading you?




God created the universe in six days...but took 22...excuse me, 23years to "write" the Quran...Seems legit. 

...because god loves the written version ofArabic over all other languages in the world at the time 1400 years ago and forms of communication. Why didn't he write it in the sky? or on the side of a mountain? Why not just TELL everyone? 

On top of that, why did god mess up in revealing the "final word" to the jews, then the christians, and FINALLY the muslims? Did god make two mistakes?...and why did he wait so long? 

 

[kiendienn]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by RKO2004

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ


What's the difference between faith and gullibility?

I don't know if this will answer your question. But I'm far from gullible in my opinion.

I choose to have faith. For the me, belief in God does wonders in day to day living. It puts me at piece with a lot of things.

Also this world can be very evil and defeating at times. I can only hope and pray that someone has our backs at the end of everything.

With so much evil there has to be a polar opposite that represents good. That's just me though.

Yeah you were right, you didn't answer my question. What's the difference between the two? You just stated why you chose faith and other reasons for liking it.

With this response it seems like there isn't a difference, just after being gullible you just have to be convicted, stick to w/e your gullible about and then call it faith. I'm sure a person can be gullible about something and being gullible can then do wonders for their day to day living, puts them at peace with a lot of things, gives them reassurance in w/e they're gullible about has their backs in this world that can be defeating and very evil, etc.

by your logic, santa claus gives me reassurance for being a good person every year, there's also empirical evidence stating that his naughty or nice list was untouched by human hands, despite the fact that though papyrus and ink can only be human-made, and human handwriting can only be written by human hands, the empirical evidence deems otherwise
however, i concede, my traditional views are flawed, and with modern day thinking, that is not possible, as with the invention of the iPad, that is what Santa Claus truly uses, and the fact that his naughty or nice list is synced through the almighty iCloud, the empirical evidence has now been solidified in stating that this list is untouched by human hands

Ockam's Razor - Keep it simple, stupid

"empirical evidence" can also state that the shroud of turin and jesus's face can only have been created in divine power, current research states that this shroud is in its truest form, however, the Church won't even cosign it - what that has to do with anything, i'm not sure

 

[tkthafm]

I already posted refutations to the supposed contradictions you raised.

Ex: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/

The claims that the Qur'an has contradictions are old and each one has been thoroughly refuted if you bother to do the research.

So to summarize your post: You refuse to acknowledge my evidence because it's from Muslims who have confirmation bias.

I guess there's not much more to say here. Hopefully others will actually look at what I've posted with sincerity and see the truth.
EDIT: and for the other part, I already did address that in previous threads. I provided you with a link to a series documenting exactly how/when the Qur'an was revealed & corrected your mistakes in assuming the previous revelations were different religions at all. (or were ever claimed to be protected from change/final revelations in the first place). They were only later changed by man. Islam wasn't a new religion. Islam is and always was the ONLY religion. Jesus/Moses etc were all Muslims.

See: 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

I already posted refutations to the supposed contradictions you raised.

Ex: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/

The claims that the Qur'an has contradictions are old and each one has been thoroughly refuted if you bother to do the research.

So to summarize your post: You refuse to acknowledge my evidence because it's from Muslims who have confirmation bias.

I guess there's not much more to say here. Hopefully others will actually look at what I've posted with sincerity and see the truth.

Just went through your site.



This is how it addresses contradictions:




There is another passage that backs up the meaning we want to convey, instead of resolving the contradiction.










How could a holy and perfect book have so many contradictions?




How do muslims get to pick "what its supposed to mean?" 




Its in the book, isn't it?










So what does your explanation resolve?...NOTHING. Zilch. Nada. 

also, I still have a request for you:








TKTHAFM, address this PLEASE:

God took 23 years to write a holy book.




Why would it take god ANY amount of time to write a holy book?




How is a book "sent down?" 




You mean, a guy says "god talked to him over 23 years?" 




or do you mean "god took 23 years to write a book?"




How is this common sense evading you?




God created the universe in six days...but took 22...excuse me, 23years to "write" the Quran...Seems legit. 

...because god loves the written version ofArabic over all other languages in the world at the time 1400 years ago and forms of communication. Why didn't he write it in the sky? or on the side of a mountain? Why not just TELL everyone? 

On top of that, why did god mess up in revealing the "final word" to the jews, then the christians, and FINALLY the muslims? Did god make two mistakes?...and why did he wait so long? 

 

[shoefreakbaby]

 

[shoefreakbaby]

 

[kiendienn]

sillyputty wrote:

TKTHAFM, address this PLEASE:

God took 23 years to write a holy book.




Why would it take god ANY amount of time to write a holy book?




How is a book "sent down?" 




You mean, a guy says "god talked to him over 23 years?" 




or do you mean "god took 23 years to write a book?"




How is this common sense evading you?




God created the universe in six days...but took 22...excuse me, 23years to "write" the Quran...Seems legit. 

...because god loves the written version ofArabic over all other languages in the world at the time 1400 years ago and forms of communication. Why didn't he write it in the sky? or on the side of a mountain? Why not just TELL everyone? 

On top of that, why did god mess up in revealing the "final word" to the jews, then the christians, and FINALLY the muslims? Did god make two mistakes?...and why did he wait so long? 

he had a lot on his mind, alright?  you act like God has an infinite amount of virgins to offer to everyone that dies CMONNN, LOGIC PLEASE.  he has to do the math, which requires derivatives, which is God's weakest math concept, and then he has to check his work

 

[sillyputty]

tkthafm wrote:

---

EDIT: and for the other part, I already did address that in previous threads. I provided you with a link to a series documenting exactly how/when the Qur'an was revealed & corrected your mistakes in assuming the previous revelations were different religions in the first place.. (or were ever claimed to be protected from change/final revelations in the first place). Islam wasn't a new religion. Islam is and always was the ONLY religion. Jesus/Moses etc were all Muslims.

See: 

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/571/****justgotrealo.gif

So we'll overlook the fact that it took an all powerful and all knowing (that knew it would mess up the first two times) being TWENTY-THREE YEARS to write a book he supposedly messed up twice in revealing to jews and christians already?


What can god do in six days that it can't do in 23 year years? Write a book?




What do muslims know that the romans, greeks, and zoroastrians didn't know? Or the ancient chinese?













I...I...I don't know what to say anymore...I feel defeated and proven wrong.�

So Islam is right, because the Quran says so? Thats your answer?

 

[rko2004]

It puts me at piece with a lot of things.
Peace =/= Piece


Oops.

Tebow's touchdowns or feeding starving christian kids?

So many people on this planet have the resources to come together and solve problems.

Look at how much money is spent within the armies around the world. Millions and billions spent to bring death. That money could feed so many. We have the power to do so. Food and water is widely available. I think its more so humans not caring about other humans that leads to starvation.

 

It puts me at piece with a lot of things.

Peace =/= PieceBut that aside, how can you be at peace knowing that there are those who are possible MORE pious than you that live in far worse conditions? Does god not hear their cries?

This reeks of selfishness and narcissism. God is great to "ME, MYSELF, and I"


I'm not some rich kid. I work 8-4 like many other people. God isn't just showering me with material gifts. His word is my gift and helps me in day to day living. He hears their cries and prayers and I believe something better than this world awaits.

Those same cries that he hears, you and I also hear. Many hear them but as a group we do nothing.

I can only hope and pray that someone has our backs at the end of everything. 

Lets do an experiment. Pray for a million dollars instead of working for it.



God isn't an ATM.

With so much evil there has to be a polar opposite that represents good. That's just me though.
But god, is not the opposite of evil. The god of the bible has done some really nasty things. You can't ignore that, no matter how much you try.


He does things according to how he see's fit. Whether you like or dislike, that's up to you.

Also this world can be very evil and defeating at times.
Evil is subjective, at best.
But the universe does not owe anyone, anything. Its a harsh reality, but the most we can do is to improve the lives of others that are less fortunate. Prayer alone won't solve that, and you know it.



Me and you have the power along with so many others to fix problem on this planet. For centuries this has been the case. We've been provided the tools to fix hunger. But they are left in the tool box.

 

[|A-Man|]

 

[tkthafm]

@ you not knowing even the most basic information about Islam. Though it's probably not your fault but the schools you went to growing up.

and we're back to the ignoring evidence because you feel like it part. (err... confirmation bias)

We get it, you don't know much of anything about Islam and choose to remain non-Muslim. Hopefully others will see things differently. 
Fastest growing religion 

 

 

[shoefreakbaby]

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

It puts me at piece with a lot of things.

Peace =/= Piece


Oops.

Tebow's touchdowns or feeding starving christian kids?

So many people on this planet have the resources to come together and solve problems.

Look at how much money is spent within the armies around the world. Millions and billions spent to bring death. That money could feed so many. We have the power to do so. Food and water is widely available. I think its more so humans not caring about other humans that leads to starvation.

 

So why pray for lives of others to be improved if the responsibility is up to us to make our own changes in the world?



Tell me where prayer comes into this equation at all?




We do the planning.




We do the work.




We take the credit.




Why does god get the credit?




He didn't show up to practice, the draft, or the game.

It puts me at piece with a lot of things.

Peace =/= Piece

But that aside, how can you be at peace knowing that there are those who are possible MORE pious than you that live in far worse conditions? Does god not hear their cries?

This reeks of selfishness and narcissism. God is great to "ME, MYSELF, and I"



I'm not some rich kid. I work 8-4 like many other people. God isn't just showering me with material gifts. His word is my gift and helps me in day to day living. He hears their cries and prayers and I believe something better than this world awaits.

Those same cries that he hears, you and I also hear. Many hear them but as a group we do nothing. 

I didn't say you were rich nor did I have a reason to iply that.




I asked why god doesn't answer their prayers over yours? Why are you so special? 




You think their suffering is just god waiting to put them out of their misery and bring them into a better afterlife? Thats pretty messed up. Why won't he just feed them as opposed to giving you a job to work and feeding you? 

I can only hope and pray that someone has our backs at the end of everything. 

Lets do an experiment. Pray for a million dollars instead of working for it.



God isn't an ATM.


So why give money to churches?




Why can't we give god the Euro or Pesos? Why does he need american dollars?

With so much evil there has to be a polar opposite that represents good. That's just me though.
But god, is not the opposite of evil. The god of the bible has done some really nasty things. You can't ignore that, no matter how much you try.


He does things according to how he see's fit. Whether you like or dislike, that's up to you.

So you have NO problem with god killing random people?




This is why your set of morals are inconsistent...not "wrong," but inconsistent.




God could arbitrarily MURDER every one in your family and you wouldn't have any problem with it. 

Evil is subjective, at best.
But the universe does not owe anyone, anything. Its a harsh reality, but the most we can do is to improve the lives of others that are less fortunate. Prayer alone won't solve that, and you know it.

Me and you have the power along with so many others to fix problem on this planet. For centuries this has been the case. We've been provided the tools to fix hunger. But they are left in the tool box.

So if solving things like world hunger is up to us, why do we still need to pray to god?



Prayer seems to NOT enter the equation in any of your answers.




I wonder why. 

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by RKO2004

With so much evil there has to be a polar opposite that represents good. That's just me though.

But god, is not the opposite of evil. The god of the bible has done some really nasty things. You can't ignore that, no matter how much you try. 
He does things according to how he see's fit. Whether you like or dislike, that's up to you
So killing is fine when he does it? It isn't a sin then? Killing is arbitrary.  

---

Originally Posted by RKO2004


I don't know if this will answer your question. But I'm far from gullible in my opinion.

I choose to have faith. For the me, belief in God does wonders in day to day living. It puts me at piece with a lot of things.

Also this world can be very evil and defeating at times. I can only hope and pray that someone has our backs at the end of everything.

With so much evil there has to be a polar opposite that represents good. That's just me though.

Yeah you were right, you didn't answer my question. What's the difference between the two? You just stated why you chose faith and other reasons for liking it.

With this response it seems like there isn't a difference, just after being gullible you just have to be convicted, stick to w/e your gullible about and then call it faith. I'm sure a person can be gullible about something and being gullible can then do wonders for their day to day living, puts them at peace with a lot of things, gives them reassurance in w/e they're gullible about has their backs in this world that can be defeating and very evil, etc.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

@ you not knowing even the most basic information about Islam. Though it's probably not your fault but the schools you went to growing up.

Is that a red-herring I see?

and we're back to the ignoring evidence because you feel like it part. (err... confirmation bias) 

So the Roman's were actually muslims? The greeks and the egyptians? 



Ancient chinese were actually muslims? 




And native americans? 




and the polynesians? 

We get it, you don't know much of anything about Islam and choose to remain non-Muslim. Hopefully others will see things differently.

Why should we? You haven't shown any reason for anyone to believe you. 

Fastest growing religion 

 

Because of increased birth-rates, forced adolescent indoctrination, and forced religious adoption and recognition by governments in third world countries.




You'd have a large muslim population too if you were legally mandated to kill apostates. 

The fastest growing religious identification in the western world is secular/non-believers in 18-35+




That being said, if Islam was really the truth, why did christianity manage to rule for so long and so wide? Christians lost their violent edge a long time ago. Islam however, is still using theirs. 




Like I said, the number of people doing something does not validate it, make it true, or more real. Otherwise, Santa and Superman would be real.







TKTHAFM, None of your evidence proves the Qu'ran to be true. I've checked all of it. Especially the stuff you keep reposting over the months. The same websites with the same information.




Your book is not true. 

Your book is not proven to be from a god.




Give me your single best piece of succinct form of evidence and I will break it down for you line by line.

 

[shoefreakbaby]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

@ you not knowing even the most basic information about Islam. Though it's probably not your fault but the schools you went to growing up.

and we're back to the ignoring evidence because you feel like it part. (err... confirmation bias)

We get it, you don't know much of anything about Islam and choose to remain non-Muslim. Hopefully others will see things differently. 

Fastest growing religion

What humble of a statement 

 

[cap1229]

It is the fastest growing religion. @%%% if it isnt a humble statement. It's a fact.

 

[rko2004]

The reason I said we are subject to change things because humans are the primary reason why so many suffer.

Putty you're a google master. Instead of looking up tools to refute my beliefs. Do some serious research for yourself with an open mind and heart. I can't answer all your questions. I wish I could but I don't have the answer to everything.

Open mind. Open heart.

 

[tkthafm]

Again, you claiming them to not be true/convincing etc means nothing. Plenty of others, including experts in their respective feels felt otherwise, many strongly enough to convert (already mentioned some). You aren't convinced. That's fine. There will always be non-believers, but this has no bearing on the legitimacy of the evidence provided. 

I can't provide a better "single evidence" than the Qur'an itself. It's a incomparable miracle on many different levels. Spare me the irrelevant pictures or oversimplifications of "you cant use the book saying its from God as evidence it's from God" .... because that's not what I'm doing. I'm looking at the content (linguistic/scientific/historical etc etc) and then making my conclusion. If a book is from God it must be perfect in every way correct ? I did my research and found this to be true for the Qur'an. There's still an element of faith, but no other religion on Earth can put forth as strong of a case, to the point where it actually becomes illogical to believe it's NOT divine. Just look at your inability to provide me with any reasonable alternative origin for the Qur'an. All of the ancient civilizations you mentioned never produced anything anywhere near the Qur'an alone. How could humans have possible came up with it ? 

If you watch this entire lecture with an open mind I don't see how you can still claim otherwise, unless you are purposefully refusing to admit you are wrong.

 

[shoefreakbaby]

Originally Posted by cap1229

It is the fastest growing religion. @%%% if it isnt a humble statement. It's a fact.

Humility plays a very large role of Islam.