Grey market discussion thread (Let's keep the discussion mature) Rules on pg 1 please read before yo

[misha]

nah, the ray allen XIII's on GM sites are terrible and obvious.... thats why.

if we cant tell the difference on some pairs what on earth makes you think FC can tell the difference? STOP IT BRUH

The person who checks the shoe before they go in checks hundreds of shoes a day and most of the employees know about people trying to bring in go pairs if their unsure they ask a fellow employee . I have seen it plenty of times that they denied to take gm pairs .
Just like at how many db 4s are in stock in fc a couple of pairs how many people got fooled into buying them and they don't take any pairs in .

 

[klackety klack]

This discussion reminds me of a debate I had in one of my college philosophy courses revolving around the transporter machine from Star Trek.

wiki:

Transporters convert a person or object into an energy pattern (a process called dematerialization), then "beam" it to a target, where it is reconverted into matter (rematerialization). The term transporter accident is a catch-all term for when a person or object does not rematerialize correctly.

If you can get beyond the fact that the device is completely fictional, Would you consider the "rematerialized" person at the final location to be the same exact person that was dematerialized at the original location?

Theoretically, the person would be the same at the final location on the molecular level. 

I feel that the person ceases to exist once they are dematerialized.  You're being killed at this point.  Comparable to being atomized from being in the blast center of an atomic explosion.  Although you are rematerialized cell for cell, you ceased to exist for a period of time (even for that short period of time).  Hence, the new person at the final location is indeed not the same person in my view.

As far as the GM discussion goes, Even though the GM pairs are constructed using the same material , constructed using the same process, and using similar if not the same machinery as the legitimate pair, It's still not a Jordan insert # here shoe IMO.

The shoe may crease, yellow, crack the same way, but in the end it's still fugazi.

Once the legitimate sanctioned production run ends, any pairs after are just not the 'real' thing IMO.

We're playing semantics here.  But let's all be honest to ourselvse, EGO is completely involved in the shoe collecting 'game'/hobby/etc.   Most of us, if not all, want that 100% legitimate pair from the real JB production run.  It's just sad when people try to pass of GM pairs as 'legitimate' pairs.  I'm not knocking anyone who is into buying GM pairs...even if they want to flaunt it like the original.  I just don't like the feeling that I have to think twice now when purchasing shoes with the thought of "whether this shoe is 'real' or not" in the back of my mind.

Just sharing another viewpoint and my 2 cents.

It's kinda sad to see

 

[thetrapper]

to add my 2 cents 

im learning on this everyday

but from my connects at jb and talking to people who cop grey market /early releases

a few  early releases are the test run on authorized nike sanctioned pairs ....usually numbers range 2000-3000 pairs on GR's ( one of the reason some many early toros.. but if the air bubble cloudy those are high end replicas...)

they are suppose to destroy the first runs or hand them out promo

now when u have pairs leak out they get back engineered and theres the high end replicas 

this debate will rage until the end of time....

if u want early releases get em.....if not cop at retail

do what you want and keep it moving my thoughts on this 

 

[dtb00201]

nah, the ray allen XIII's on GM sites are terrible and obvious.... thats why.

if we cant tell the difference on some pairs what on earth makes you think FC can tell the difference? STOP IT BRUH

Then how are they authentic if they have noticeable differences? Isn't the whole argument that these shoes are identical to retail pairs?

 

[quise2024]

My thing is flight club is not the messiah of shoes. Yeah they may have a good rep and turn doqn pairs they believe to be GM but i can bring you 5 pairs of shoes 4 retail and 1 GM. Guarantee 98% of us pick the wrong one to be GM. And im sure flight club would be fooled over 75% of the time too. You can take 5 retail pairs and find some kind of difference in all 5.

Just cuz they only have a few pairs of a sought after shoe doesnt mean they are all authorized

 

[joeyd12]

Crazy amounts of Toro and Green Glow 4's on ALL the early release sites. Now what's everyone's opinions on these shoes? Would you consider them GM?

 

[Bert.]

nah, the ray allen XIII's on GM sites are terrible and obvious.... thats why.

if we cant tell the difference on some pairs what on earth makes you think FC can tell the difference? STOP IT BRUH

Then how are they authentic if they have noticeable differences? Isn't the whole argument that these shoes are identical to retail pairs?

its called the pairs are sloppy as hell, using different materials. the shoes are sold so this was done awhile back. those were supposed to be limited as hell so i assume they used other materials?

im just going by what ive seen..

now all other shoes especially the ones out now? the only "differences" in SOME GM pairs is that some are not so good quality,, otherwise the top quality GM pairs are exactly like the release day pairs.

 

[dtb00201]

So they used different materials, but sold them on the same sites people still consider authentic.....

 

[Bert.]

So they used different materials, but sold them on the same sites people still consider authentic.....

once again im speaking from what I think...

people have bought pairs and compared them to the legit ones and they were good, others werent.

 

[deezrsackolishus]

once again im speaking from what I think...

people have bought pairs and compared them to the legit ones and they were good, others werent.

Haha you bout to get some GM denims from iss? Haha jk man

 

[cdynasty24]

Then how are they authentic if they have noticeable differences? Isn't the whole argument that these shoes are identical to retail pairs?

Though JB's Quality Check is pretty horrible, they at least have a quality check. GM pairs are built to be identical, but they are sold as produced. Similar to the handbag industry, it's just not the same product and will be watered down.

 

[mrdeeds]

Then how are they authentic if they have noticeable differences? Isn't the whole argument that these shoes are identical to retail pairs?

Though JB's Quality Check is pretty horrible, they at least have a quality check. GM pairs are built to be identical, but they are sold as produced. Similar to the handbag industry, it's just not the same product and will be watered down.

This makes all the sense in the world and is the logic of most that have posted in this thread but there are many that continue to use words like "identical" and saying things like its impossible to tell.  A number of people have bought pairs to compare and theres always something consistent that GM manufacturers fail to do depending on the shoe.

Thats why I don't buy into the whole "they are the same" logic.  The way I see it GM pairs are close but not close enough if you have both pairs in front of you.

 

[cdynasty24]

This makes all the sense in the world and is the logic of most that have posted in this thread but there are many that continue to use words like "identical" and saying things like its impossible to tell.  A number of people have bought pairs to compare and theres always something consistent that GM manufacturers fail to do depending on the shoe.
Thats why I don't buy into the whole "they are the same" logic.  The way I see it GM pairs are close but not close enough if you have both pairs in front of you.

You would think people are getting paid by GM companies or are accepting their offers for free shoes by creating this false hype. I would think NT is actually very influential, and kids are using this thread to justify paying that much money for "knockoffs".

From commenting on YouTube links, I get so many offers for "post a shoe review and I'll send you a pair of Yeezy's, Grapes, etc". Clearly their profit margins are even more ridiculous than Nike's because for them, they are even cheaper to produce so they just throw away shoes to average shoes.

 

[joeyd12]

This makes all the sense in the world and is the logic of most that have posted in this thread but there are many that continue to use words like "identical" and saying things like its impossible to tell.  A number of people have bought pairs to compare and theres always something consistent that GM manufacturers fail to do depending on the shoe.
Thats why I don't buy into the whole "they are the same" logic.  The way I see it GM pairs are close but not close enough if you have both pairs in front of you.

I bought two pairs of bred 11's this year, same size. One from NDC and the other from a FNL restock. Different production dates, one pair is clearly higher than the other and wider in the back, also the patent cuts appear to be different. This holds true for many other JB shoes. I've doubled up tons of times on JB shoes and have always found inconsistencies between pairs. What people mean by "Identical" and "impossible to tell" is because they are exactly that. I guarantee if a NDC royal and GM royal where placed in front of NT members 90% of people wouldn't know with certainly what pair was real, nevermind your average sneaker buyer or casual buyer. They are that close now-a-days. I bet all you eBay, boutique, consignment, private or swap meet buyers have GM kicks and don't even know it. I've even heard rumors of them finding their way into flight club. People wouldn't be spending $250-$300 on GM Royals, being happy about it if this wasn't the case.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I think what you guys are failing to realize is that all these "inconsistencies" are present in all pairs of retail shoes as well. Take the recent black grape release for Instance. If you look through that thread there are tons of people posting picture of flaws. From sloppy paint and entirely unpainted sections to scratches in the suede and loose stitching. And these were all retail pairs. Although there are some pairs that are sloppy. And there are some models worse than the others but once a shoe gets labeled GM it goes under a lot more scrutiny than retail pairs and retail pairs are just as scrappy looking as the GM pairs. I just find it funny that people glorify JBs "quality" check when there are just as many people online complaining about major and minor flaws in there retail pairs as people praising the quality of their GM pairs. Their maybe "inconsistencies" when you compare GM vs retail pair to pair but if you compare production run to production run all the flaws would be consistent for both types. Hence why they are "identical"

 

[mrdeeds]

This makes all the sense in the world and is the logic of most that have posted in this thread but there are many that continue to use words like "identical" and saying things like its impossible to tell.  A number of people have bought pairs to compare and theres always something consistent that GM manufacturers fail to do depending on the shoe.
Thats why I don't buy into the whole "they are the same" logic.  The way I see it GM pairs are close but not close enough if you have both pairs in front of you.

I bought two pairs of bred 11's this year, same size. One from NDC and the other from a FNL restock. Different production dates, one pair is clearly higher than the other and wider in the back, also the patent cuts appear to be different. This holds true for many other JB shoes. I've doubled up tons of times on JB shoes and have always found inconsistencies between pairs. What people mean by "Identical" and "impossible to tell" is because they are exactly that. I guarantee if a NDC royal and GM royal where placed in front of NT members 90% of people wouldn't know with certainly what pair was real, nevermind your average sneaker buyer or casual buyer. They are that close now-a-days. I bet all you eBay, boutique, consignment, private or swap meet buyers have GM kicks and don't even know it. I've even heard rumors of them finding their way into flight club. People wouldn't be spending $250-$300 on GM Royals, being happy about it if this wasn't the case.

Your mistaking production inconsistencies that are across all JB shoes, authentic or GM with what my point which is that GM pairs consistently get something wrong.

I mean they willfully decide that certain short cuts are satisfactory to them in trying to duplicate JB shoes.
The space jam 11 is an example, even the best GM pair has one of the worst looking cf plates. It's obviously not by accident, they are intentionally not zeroing in on that as something worth reproducing correctly.

What people really need to understand is that the current market for GM shoes has shifted to the United States when we weren't supposed to be the ones these shoes were made for. These shoes are supposed to be cheaper reproductions for people in places where the retail cost of a regular JB shoe isn't feasible for them to afford.

Somewhere in china there's someone making a tablet that physically looks like an ipad but runs an android os, just because its a good reproduction doesn't make it "identical" nor does it mean its of the same quality.

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[guvnor]

Your mistaking production inconsistencies that are across all JB shoes, authentic or GM with what my point which is that GM pairs consistently get something wrong.

I mean they willfully decide that certain short cuts are satisfactory to them in trying to duplicate JB shoes.
The space jam 11 is an example, even the best GM pair has one of the worst looking cf plates. It's obviously not by accident, they are intentionally not zeroing in on that as something worth reproducing correctly.

What people really need to understand is that the current market for GM shoes has shifted to the United States when we weren't supposed to be the ones these shoes were made for. These shoes are supposed to be cheaper reproductions for people in places where the retail cost of a regular JB shoe isn't feasible for them to afford.

Somewhere in china there's someone making a tablet that physically looks like an ipad but runs an android os, just because its a good reproduction doesn't make it "identical" nor does it mean its of the same quality.

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Tell me how paying one of these turds on ebay or flight club sometimes double the price for a pair of kicks you missed out on is "feasible". The GM is targeted at those who don't like to take it up the butt, also those aforementioned resellers, and anyone who wants to get a shoe early.

 

[freddy fig]

Them damn bootleggers...I'm having second thoughts about copping them toro 4s early now....as far as quality goes, I agree it happens all the time on RD pairs it is what it is, you get what you get...if you not satisfied with the inconsistencies just being em back to the store...

 

[deezrsackolishus]

Them damn bootleggers...I'm having second thoughts about copping them toro 4s early now....as far as quality goes, I agree it happens all the time on RD pairs it is what it is, you get what you get...if you not satisfied with the inconsistencies just being em back to the store...

I think its safe to say you can save your money and wait 2 weeks dude?

 

[freddy fig]

Yeh I wanted to bust em for the 4th but I'll just wait...

 

[mrdeeds]

Tell me how paying one of these turds on ebay or flight club sometimes double the price for a pair of kicks you missed out on is "feasible". The GM is targeted at those who don't like to take it up the butt, also those aforementioned resellers, and anyone who wants to get a shoe early.

Nobody said it was but the fact that you don't consider paying over retail for what is essentially a counterfeit reproduction "taking it up the butt" also shows me your decision making is off.

The fact is that the majority of people that buy GM pairs pay almost double retail because they want a shoe early or because they missed out and usually are never interested in putting the leg work in to source their own pairs.

All people are doing is replacing the hated retail reseller/reseller website with one that's "ok" because at least you got the shoe early or after it sold out.

If you can get your GM pairs for the low and your good with it then you really aren't hurting anybody, the problem is there are a lot of people getting taken advantaged of by the few that know better.

 

[quise2024]

Them damn bootleggers...I'm having second thoughts about copping them toro 4s early now....as far as quality goes, I agree it happens all the time on RD pairs it is what it is, you get what you get...if you not satisfied with the inconsistencies just being em back to the store...

idk about you but when im gonna consider getting a shoe "early" im thinking a month or 2 maybe even 3 in advance ( i never have but .. yeah)

we are 2 weeks away thats not really that early, you might as well wait to try for a legit pair from a retailer, and then if you miss out find someone on CL or eBay.

 

[rcjbbp1313]

The problem with the GM is that the people selling the GM pairs are more greedy than the resellers in the fact that you know they get their pairs way below retail and then sell them for just as much as the resellers do the authentic pairs so either way as it stands neither of them are worth it to the average consumer

 

[theonewskill]

A HUGE PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT 99% OF PEOPLE DONT EVEN KNOW WHAT A GM PAIR IS....THEY ARE BUYING GM PAIRS ON EBAY, ETC.. AND DONT EVEN KNOW IT. You can check ebay and see it in the feedback, most people getting gm pairs dont even know..they get their pairs and think theyre 100% authentic, why wouldnt they? the AVERAGE consumer has no way to really tell the diff.

 

[lewi1913]

I just got in my GM pairs, first time ordering them. I got a pair of Breds, Concords, and Space Jams.

Breds are right next to my Finishline retail pair, which is GM? In each picture of breds, I kept each one on either the left or right, for each pic.

Some things I noticed:

• Space Jams are cut a bit higher than the 2 other pairs
• Space Jam and Concord carbon fiber looks a bit fishy
• Space Jam shoe trees are very slightly smaller than retail pairs
• Concord carbon fiber gloss, I was able to peel off a bit (see last pic). I thought it was excess glue, but it was the finish on CF.
• Concord box looked the most legit, even had pricing tab flap. Space jam had price tab, no flap just stuck on.
• Concord internal paper looked real, Space jam paper looked off
• Concords have the size sticker on the insoles, others did not
• Concords do not have a more low profile toe box, as the other 2 pairs
• Concord shoe trees look exact to retail pairs, glitter, thickness matches.
• Breds felt a bit more snug than my retail pair
• Breds carbon fiber looks EXACT to retail pair
• Bred shoe trees have a little less glitter density

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