HBO Michael Jackson doc 'Leaving Neverland'

[a-friend]

I don't think Hahahaha has watched the Doc.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

To spin this one other way I will ask this.... let's for the sake of argument just say what happened to those boys really happened. Let's just pretend everything was 100% real and MJ was in fact guilty of this and we had confirmation. What then is the proper thing that should be done concerning the victims? What action would be okay in our minds for them to take, in this specific case. It's a valid question no one wants to answer.

Lol no it's not but here's an answer

If all of this is true the estate should be investigated for covering up and working to silence the accusers (through $100 million dollar lawsuits and press tours consisting of character assasination) and the hundreds of millions if not billions collected by the estate after 2009 should go towards assisting victims of childhood abuse.

To say this differently, have you entertained the possibility that this entire family is deathly afraid of what this might do to their gravy train and aren't really concerned at all about the actual validity (if any) of these and other claims?

 

[lamekilla]

Yes he did.

You and anyone else who categorically denies this, is part of the problem.

And White America let him slide TWICE?? FOH

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Making this about race...your heart is in the right place but it's the wrong lens.

MJ was white America's money maker. The man was an institution who was responsible for the livelihoods of thousands of not more than that.

He is literally the personification of American consumerism, a man who became an actual product himself, willingly or no, at incredible personal cost. White America was never gonna let that man go.

 

[macbk]

Got through a little over an hour of part one last night. That's about when the graphic descriptions start coming into play . If any of that is true..... shame on the parents for being "concerned" yet still leave their boys with MJ alone.

 

[Hahahaha]

They were talking about it at work today. I heard a few people say the body language of the men is real bad, makes it hard to believe anything they’re saying

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

They were talking about it at work today. I heard a few people say the body language of the men is real bad, makes it hard to believe anything they’re saying

I'm glad you've been able to support your arguments with compelling second hand testimony

 

[getback]

What about their body language?

 

[Hahahaha]

What about their body language?

I didn’t see it but I heard the people at work talk about it. Where I work, we get paid to read people’s body language. I’m not going into detail where I work or what I do cause my own wife don’t know what the **** I do.

But I said before their body language in the ET interview was terrible

I'm glad you've been able to support your arguments with compelling second hand testimony

What evidence do you have that supports your argument? None of us have **** but opinions. Unless you was in the room with them, your posts are as valuable as mine

 

[Maximus Meridius]

It has to be approached and analyzed case-by-case. To this day, it still hasn't been proven beyond a reasonable doubt that MJ committed the crimes he was accused of. All the conjecture is rooted in what's socially acceptable behavior and innuendo, and not necessarily what is being presented as facts in this situation. There are just way too many inconsistent statements and inaccurate "recollections" to say, without a doubt, dude is guilty. For example, if the accuser states that they can provide dates, locations and the individuals involved in the incident(s), only to be countered with paperwork, witnesses and photographic evidence undoubtably disproving their statements on SEVERAL occasions, there's the red flag. Wade says EVERYTIME he and Mike were together between a certain time period, he was abused. Ok. Roll back the clock to MJ's trial, and we hear testimony on the witness stand from his own mother that he and MJ were only actually together a handful of times, she was there with them, and never saw him do anything inappropriate with her son. Wade now says that Michael did things to him at certain places, providing times and dates...only to be countered by witness accounts that Mike wasn't even in the same country. Wade cliffs-noted a story of his alleged sexual abuse from an Anti-Michael Jackson website and used it in his deposition. This is what ultimately got their case against MJ's estate thrown out by the judge. People are free to believe what they want. It's up to these dudes to PROVE that these things happened. MJ was questioned, criticized, wiretapped, strip searched, and investigated several times by the most notorious police department in the free world AND the most thorough law enforcement organization, and nothing turned up. One things for sure. At some point, these two grown men lied, more-so under oath. That leaves a little bit of doubt in the minds of some people listening to what they're trying to sell now.

On point.

I don't think Hahahaha has watched the Doc.

It's really no real reason to watch it cuz we've already seen this dude Wade flip flop on his story. It was was a reason to watch the R Kelly documentary cuz there's real proof in that situation.

 

[getback]

No proof against Kavanaugh either but I know damn well that dude did what was alleged.

Just instincts and experience I guess.

 

[Hahahaha]

I didn’t watch the R Kelly **** because there’s actual proof and witnesses that some of those women are lying or exaggerating. SOME.

I’m not watching docs like these that are so one sided and have a specific agenda.

I’ll be a little interested in this when someone that comes out against him that has nothing to gain

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Basically the reasons for not watching the doc amount to having already developed a counter-narrative to what the doc alleges and being afraid of having that narrative challenged

Fun fact: none of this affects our lives in the slightest. I'll accept any and all perspectives regarding this MJ situation and continue on with my day.

If you're not interested in actual intellectual dissection of the documentary and whether or not the things we know about Michael Jackson corroborate the claims, then there's no point in posting in the thread. Because all I see are literally the same 5 talking points being copy pasted from every MJ fan site on the internet.

Based on what we know about MJ psychologically and this documentary, I assume that the man was a disturbed weirdo at best and a serial kid diddler at worst. It ain't that deep lol

 

[Hahahaha]

Basically the reasons for not watching the doc amount to having already developed a counter-narrative to what the doc alleges and being afraid of having that narrative challenged

Hahahaha

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Basically the reasons for not watching the doc amount to having already developed a counter-narrative to what the doc alleges and being afraid of having that narrative challenged

Don't have **** to be afraid of.

I'm not even a fan of MJ like that I don't care if he did or didn't do it. Won't change anything for me. I like looking at whatever evidence is out there and peoples credibility and when there's no evidence and the accusers credibility is trash it's no reason for me to waste time.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Honestly, that’s how a lot of the counter arguments come off to me, too.

More emotional reaction than thoughtful one. The facts don’t really support Mike.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Don't have **** to be afraid of.

I'm not even a fan of MJ like that I don't care if he did or didn't do it. Won't change anything for me. I like looking at whatever evidence is out there and peoples credibility and when there's no evidence and the accusers credibility is trash it's no reason for me to waste time.

See the problem is that neither of you add anything new to the discussion. We get that Wade testified, like we get it lol. Even worse the things you say are both addressed in the documentary and the Oprah interview afterwards.

I'm not saying you have to believe them, but the discussion has moved forward both nationally and in this thread, but y'all are just repeating the same thing and can't even address what was said by the accusers re: these echo-chamber hot takes.

Meaning you can't craft new arguments for yourselves because you haven't heard the arguments against your original arguments...

 

[Maximus Meridius]

See the problem is that neither of you add anything new to the discussion. Even worse the things you say are both addressed in the documentary and the Oprah interview afterwards.

I'm not saying you have to believe them but the discussion has moved forward both nationally and in this thread but y'all are just repeating the same ****.

Ya'll ain't adding anything new either. There's nothing new about these cases. What new evidence came from this documentary?

All I see is people saying the same stuff we been saying forever, he's a weirdo.

 

[P C H]

This is insane.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I have dated women who have been abused before and the level of detail these guys are recalling is suspect to say the least. Objectively there is some color commentary being added here.

What do you mean by this?

 

[getback]

Wade reneging doesn't even really matter unless you're only concerned about the prosecution's case.

I think this goes way beyond that.

That's probably where the disconnect in here lies.

 

[P C H]

Ya know,

what are we doing as a society if we don't give the benefit of the doubt to accusers like these men in this doc? Like really?

We Openly know he paraded around with young boys, slept in the same bed with them...it's obviously he said she said but just from what we know, we have to believe the men in the doc.

All I'll say is that if he wasn't Michael Jackson no one would give the benefit of the doubt to him for these ridiculous actions.

 

[P C H]

I can't believe there's this much debate over the validity of the accusers for a guy who openly slept in the same bed as teenage boys and paraded around with them. Yikes.

 

[a-friend]

On point.




It's really no real reason to watch it cuz we've already seen this dude Wade flip flop on his story. It was was a reason to watch the R Kelly documentary cuz there's real proof in that situation.

If that is your reason for not watching it that's up to you.

 

[Hahahaha]

Honestly, that’s how a lot of the counter arguments come off to me, too.

More emotional reaction than thoughtful one. The facts don’t really support Mike.

The facts don’t support the two men though. They’ve been caught lying so why should we believe everything they say?

There aren’t any facts.

I’ve never said he was guilty or innocent but I don’t believe these two men. He might have touched other kids but I’m talking about these two specifically.

Ya know,

what are we doing as a society if we don't give the benefit of the doubt to accusers like these men in this doc? Like really?

We Openly know he paraded around with young boys, slept in the same bed with them...it's obviously he said she said but just from what we know, we have to believe the men in the doc.

All I'll say is that if he wasn't Michael Jackson no one would give the benefit of the doubt to him for these ridiculous actions.

If he wasn’t Michael Jackson, we wouldn’t be talking about this doc or even aware of it