If Kanye's next album is a classic, is he the GOAT?

[All Ready]

college dropout is a personal classic of mine

late registration is a very great album

graduation is a above average album

808's is a great album

4 classics? No

 

[smedroc]

Kanye West
College Dropout - Masterpiece.
Late Registration - Classic.
Graduation - Classic.
808s & Heartbreak - Masterpiece.

 

[pj and bompton]

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by viiheaven

 and yes, NaS is the greatest of all-time.

I like Nas as much as the next guy.  I have every one of his albums.  Been down with him since day 1.  But the bottom line is, the greatest of all time should NOT be someone who is notorious for forgetting his lyrics in concert.  After seeing Nas live 3 times, and it happening EVERY time, I refuse to even mention his name when it comes to the all time greats.  I'm sorry.
*Waits for hate*

when is the last time you saw him? he absolutely tore it down yesterday with Damian.

 

[sid lugar]

Stop looking for the goat. There is none.


The only person who is the GOAT is MJ and he is gone. Add the other MJ as another GOAT.


There is no GOAT in Rap. None

 

[Jordan8]

Originally Posted by LiquidCREAM

Originally Posted by Garcia y Vega

Originally Posted by LiquidCREAM

like the goat animal?

Everyone knows that white tigers are the GOAT animal.

THIS

 

[dland24]

Originally Posted by PJ and Bompton

Originally Posted by dland24

Originally Posted by viiheaven

 and yes, NaS is the greatest of all-time.

I like Nas as much as the next guy.  I have every one of his albums.  Been down with him since day 1.  But the bottom line is, the greatest of all time should NOT be someone who is notorious for forgetting his lyrics in concert.  After seeing Nas live 3 times, and it happening EVERY time, I refuse to even mention his name when it comes to the all time greats.  I'm sorry.
*Waits for hate*

when is the last time you saw him? he absolutely tore it down yesterday with Damian.

Last Tuesday.  

 

[presumed]

Originally Posted by jc619er

There has been plenty of "classic" hip hop before Kanye and there will be plenty after. Kanye is a good artist no doubt but to say greatest of all time and his first four albums are classic, not even close. What never gets talked about is what makes Kanye albums so likable in the first place and that's because there is one singular sound on each album because it's one producer handling all the production. That's what makes a nice cohesive album and something that's enjoyable to listen to. As much as I HATE 808's, the one thing it does have going for it is unified production and I can understand why someone would really get into that album. Back in the day all Hip-Hop albums only had one producer and that's why so much of Hip-Hop's early years was so amazing and still so much fun to listen to because it was consistent. Look at all of Public Enemy's first albums, Beastie Boys, Run DMC, EPMD, Eric B. & Rakim, Gangstarr, N.W.A., Ice Cube, KRS-ONE, Big Daddy Kane, A Tribe Called Quest, etc. All those early albums had one producer or one team of producers throughout the whole album so you always got a nice consistent sound that kept you entertained. Nowadays you have all these garbage albums with no name producers or a collage of whoever's hot right now making beats or whatever and it's really hit and miss. It's like listening to an album that has one or two Primo tracks on it. Once you get to those songs they stand out head and shoulders above the rest of the songs and it makes the rest of the album passable. But now if you had an entire album of Primo beats you'd ride the whole time. Point being Group Home. Two of the most mediocre MCs of all time with one of the hardest albums ever becasuse Primo killed it for them on every track. And that brings me back to my point about Kanye. For all these younger listeners who are used to having these really badly produced albums where only a handful of tracks are really good, a Kanye album is incredible because he's handling the whole sound and making it consistent with the vision he has in his head. So that is why I can see his appeal being so high these days in the Hip Hop world because he's doing what used to be common place in Hip Hop. But as far as him being the greatest of all time, he'd have to a whole lot for that to ever happen. He'll definitely be an artist who changed the game and brought more people over to the world of Hip Hop but he will never be the greatest.

Nice post, maybe U should have divided it into paragraphs though... Outta curiosity who do u think is the GOAT

 

[jking0821]

Originally Posted by swishasweets

Originally Posted by TheHype

College Dropout and Late Registration are Classics.

And Graduation was a 3.75-4/5.

Flashing Lights was one of the dopest (AND unconventional) singles/beats in the last decade.

Dudes saying KanYe West didn't innovate rap for the better...REALLY? You REALLY think that?

Yea we got skinny jeans rappers but we also got popular artists like Drake, Lupe, CuDi, and other Rap Artists that you can listen to in the car with your girl or even parents.

Everybody can't relate to 50 Cent. I dig that type of rap but I'm happy my cousins put me onto Ye when I was WAY younger. *##% mattered when I was younger.

I can't illustrate the look I had on my face the first time my dad (50 year old Jamaican cat) told me he liked "Slow Jamz" 

Edit:

He wont be the G.O.A.T RAPPER, though. Just had to clarify.

Innovator, Rap tastemaker and Hip-Hop Legend seems like a better title though.

Great unbiased explanation touché

1.  I don't get why late registration is considered a classic.  Songs on that album that sucked : My way home, crack music, roses, bring me down, addiction, we major, celebration, gone, late.
2. Just because they had a kanye feature doesn't mean kanye made them.  Lupe is on a different level then any rapper out and isn't really "popular" like the others.  So his niche was created by himself not kanye.  Drake was first heard thanks to Wayne not Ye.  You may have an argument for Cudi but i heard day and night before i heard welcome to heartbreak (didn't buy 808s because it sucks).  And if we are playing that Eminem put on 50 cent literally.  Without em 50 would be nothing  (power of the dollar sold so well for Sony before he signed to shady/aftermath.....).  Without Ye all the other rappers you mentioned would be fine.
3.  Kanye is extremely talented and i do like some of his work.  But again when you talk about Greatest of all time (OF ALL TIME!!) he isn't in the top 5.  When it comes down to it rapping > production.  You can always find beats you can't always find lyrics.
4. Eminem is the GOAT.  Kanye didn't bring anyone over to rap.  He makes pop music.  Eminem made it ok for every white person to listen to rap.  Before em you were a %+*%!@ who wanted to be black.  After em it's cool.

NT sensored reggiw (read backwards)

 

[CUNNiNGH4M]

how do u not like my way home, addiction, and bring me down? the rest i agree with tho...

eminem made it ok for white people to listen to rap? since when was he the first white rapper? since when did there have to be a white rapper for white people to listen to rap?

mc serch? beastie boys?

 

[nostrandave68]

wait so some of the stuff being said in this thread is SERIOUS... soo you telling me EVERY album Kanye dropped is a classic. 808 & Heartbreaks Masterpiece...WOW.

Kanye has indeed contributed to some of the best music the past decade both as an artist and producer but lets not get carried away

 

[jking0821]

Originally Posted by MusicalExcellence

how do u not like my way home, addiction, and bring me down? the rest i agree with tho...

eminem made it ok for white people to listen to rap? since when was he the first white rapper? since when did there have to be a white rapper for white people to listen to rap?

mc serch? beastie boys?

MC Search....lets be serious 3rd base had like one song.  The beastie boys were ok but not on Em's level.  The beastie boys were kept at arms length and were still kind of rockish.  They had a different sound at least.  Eminem was the first white rapper embraced by the black community. The Beastie Boys were good in their own right but they were not Eminem.  The beastie boys, for the rap world to embrace them, would have needed the backing of a founding father and em had that in Dre.   

I never said Em was the first white rapper.  And personally, I used to listen to Cage before eminem.  But he wasn't "cool".  I personally know people would make fun of it saying "white people can't rap".  Eminem came out and all of a sudden it was a level playing field.  Maybe its a generational thing but I still believe there will never be another Eminem.  J.Cole could be the next Kanye.  Cole is a better rapper then Ye and he produces his own music.  His production skills are still questionable in my eyes.  But a kanye comes along every once in a while.  An Eminem will never happen again.

 

[CUNNiNGH4M]

cole could never be the next kanye... his sound is too generic... his beats are pretty weak and he cant make good songs... he just raps...

i mean im not white so that emeinem thing i cant really speak on too much but he's def not the goat either wit all that crappy music he makes... he's probably the most talented rapper ever but his music doesnt show that $$$% at all...

 

[jking0821]

Originally Posted by MusicalExcellence

cole could never be the next kanye... his sound is too generic... his beats are pretty weak and he cant make good songs... he just raps...

i mean im not white so that emeinem thing i cant really speak on too much but he's def not the goat either wit all that crappy music he makes... he's probably the most talented rapper ever but his music doesnt show that $$$% at all...

I think cole is an excellent rapper.  But i don't base "GOAT" on popularity.  Because no J. Cole will never be as popular as Kanye because cole actually raps.  But he can mature as a producer and get better and learn.  He will always have rapping talent.  Your probably right cole won't be as good kanye (who is really one of the best producers of all time).

It's hard to judge though but if kanye produced an album for an actual rapper it would crush all kanye albums.  J.Cole doing a whole album produced by Kanye would prob be better then anything kanye put out.  I hate to say it because i hate drake...a lot....but if kanye did his whole album it would probably top most of kanye's albums (college dropout is a classic hands down his best not topping that).  I don't think you can be the GOAT if that is the case. 

 

[CUNNiNGH4M]

nah... j cole is gonna make a boring #+! album no matter who produces it... thats just him... he's too focused on lyrics... he cant write hooks...

i honestly dont believe in the whole goat thing...

theres just top tier artists/producers who are basically all interchangeable depending on who u ask...

 

[luxurious24]

dude is trippin Kanye had 1 classic, College Dropout nothing else is worth mention like that

 

[Hahahaha]

Originally Posted by deepinthajeep

Dingle you knew you weren't gonna get a legit conversation about this topic.

But yes, if he drops another classic, he'll be in the same category as Biggie, Jigga, Nas, *Rakim, 2Pac, ect.

Like it or not Kanye West changed the entire dynamic of Hip-Hop. He changed how people perceived the genre. Yall can argue about RZA all day, but RZA could never make a "Flashing Lights" or a "We Major" but Yeezy has made the likes of "Nothin Like It" "Heartless" (which is RZA-esq) and "Real People." And that's just talkin about dude's production, we ain't even gonna get into him emceeing skills, musically innovation, and influence on pop culture.

@ yall for not given this man due on his greatness. He KEEPS killin it. If he ends up putting out 12 albums like the boy Jigga, he might go down as the best ever but for right now, he's definitely on the short list (see above).

Ye HAS to be in the conversation. No one has done what he's done, and he's nowhere near finished.

Kanye West
College Dropout - Masterpiece.
Late Registration - Classic.
Graduation - Classic.
808s & Heartbreak - Masterpiece.

Nas
Illmatic
It Was Written
I AM
Nastradamus (OOoops)

Biggie
Ready to Die
Life After Death

(only 2)

Reasonable Doubt
IML Vol. I (I Know What Girls Like, Sunshine)
IML Vol. II
IML Vol. III (Naaaaaah - Not a "Classic")

'Kast is as close as it gets (and them N's don't count b/c it's two of them)

Outkast
Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik - Classic.
ATLiens - Classic.
Aquimini - Masterpiece.
Stankonia - Classic.


Obviously Jigga is the best to ever do it (Get ya CDs out, we'll go song for song, I'm the illest N' doin it till ya prove me wrong.) But if Ye keeps droppin these gems (like PE - no pun intended) then in 10 years or so, we'll have a legitimate argument.





*I'm too young but see how he killed the game but they say Rakim was the 1st that really changed the game.

There is no way you actually believe half the $hit you just typed 

 

[trynafeelmink]

The fact of the matter is no matter how good ye is he will never be a better rapper or have a bigger impact than jay, pac, or big so how in da hell is he gonna scratch the surface of Goat. Hes already a legend in the game but no it just wont happen

 

[devildog1776]

Originally Posted by moneyisthemotive

THIS is the problem with the world today ... not hip hop or rap or music in general, but the entire WORLD ... when you got people claiming Kanye is the greatest in hip hop history, you know there isn't any hope for the human race ... smh

 

[sohi 23]

Originally Posted by Ballerific703

Originally Posted by deepinthajeep

Dingle you knew you weren't gonna get a legit conversation about this topic.

But yes, if he drops another classic, he'll be in the same category as Biggie, Jigga, Nas, *Rakim, 2Pac, ect.

Like it or not Kanye West changed the entire dynamic of Hip-Hop. He changed how people perceived the genre. Yall can argue about RZA all day, but RZA could never make a "Flashing Lights" or a "We Major" but Yeezy has made the likes of "Nothin Like It" "Heartless" (which is RZA-esq) and "Real People." And that's just talkin about dude's production, we ain't even gonna get into him emceeing skills, musically innovation, and influence on pop culture.

@ yall for not given this man due on his greatness. He KEEPS killin it. If he ends up putting out 12 albums like the boy Jigga, he might go down as the best ever but for right now, he's definitely on the short list (see above).

Ye HAS to be in the conversation. No one has done what he's done, and he's nowhere near finished.

Kanye West
College Dropout - Masterpiece.
Late Registration - Classic.
Graduation - Classic.
808s & Heartbreak - Masterpiece.

Nas
Illmatic
It Was Written
I AM
Nastradamus (OOoops)

Biggie
Ready to Die
Life After Death

(only 2)

Reasonable Doubt
IML Vol. I (I Know What Girls Like, Sunshine)
IML Vol. II
IML Vol. III (Naaaaaah - Not a "Classic")

'Kast is as close as it gets (and them N's don't count b/c it's two of them)

Outkast
Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik - Classic.
ATLiens - Classic.
Aquimini - Masterpiece.
Stankonia - Classic.


Obviously Jigga is the best to ever do it (Get ya CDs out, we'll go song for song, I'm the illest N' doin it till ya prove me wrong.) But if Ye keeps droppin these gems (like PE - no pun intended) then in 10 years or so, we'll have a legitimate argument.





*I'm too young but see how he killed the game but they say Rakim was the 1st that really changed the game.

There is no way you actually believe half the $hit you just typed 

Seriously.
How you gunna give Kanye 2 masterpieces + 2 classics on his first 4 albums, and then turn around and say OutKast has 3 classics + 1 masterpiece.
which one of Kanye's album is better than ANY Of those outKast albums?

Dudes be caught up in the fact that he produces and raps, he's not that good of a rapper we all know it.
but u cant say he's a top 10 producer and a top 50 rapper, no one else has those 2 qualitites therefore he's the GOAT Hiphop artist.

 

[thehype]

Originally Posted by Jking0821

Originally Posted by swishasweets

Originally Posted by TheHype

College Dropout and Late Registration are Classics.

And Graduation was a 3.75-4/5.

Flashing Lights was one of the dopest (AND unconventional) singles/beats in the last decade.

Dudes saying KanYe West didn't innovate rap for the better...REALLY? You REALLY think that?

Yea we got skinny jeans rappers but we also got popular artists like Drake, Lupe, CuDi, and other Rap Artists that you can listen to in the car with your girl or even parents.

Everybody can't relate to 50 Cent. I dig that type of rap but I'm happy my cousins put me onto Ye when I was WAY younger. *##% mattered when I was younger.

I can't illustrate the look I had on my face the first time my dad (50 year old Jamaican cat) told me he liked "Slow Jamz" 

Edit:

He wont be the G.O.A.T RAPPER, though. Just had to clarify.

Innovator, Rap tastemaker and Hip-Hop Legend seems like a better title though.

Great unbiased explanation touché

1.  I don't get why late registration is considered a classic.  Songs on that album that sucked : My way home, crack music, roses, bring me down, addiction, we major, celebration, gone, late.
2. Just because they had a kanye feature doesn't mean kanye made them.  Lupe is on a different level then any rapper out and isn't really "popular" like the others.  So his niche was created by himself not kanye.  Drake was first heard thanks to Wayne not Ye.  You may have an argument for Cudi but i heard day and night before i heard welcome to heartbreak (didn't buy 808s because it sucks).  And if we are playing that Eminem put on 50 cent literally.  Without em 50 would be nothing  (power of the dollar sold so well for Sony before he signed to shady/aftermath.....).  Without Ye all the other rappers you mentioned would be fine.
3.  Kanye is extremely talented and i do like some of his work.  But again when you talk about Greatest of all time (OF ALL TIME!!) he isn't in the top 5.  When it comes down to it rapping > production.  You can always find beats you can't always find lyrics.
4. Eminem is the GOAT.  Kanye didn't bring anyone over to rap.  He makes pop music.  Eminem made it ok for every white person to listen to rap.  Before em you were a %+*%!@ who wanted to be black.  After em it's cool.

NT sensored reggiw (read backwards)

1. Wha? You're just in the minority cause all those songs are ill as #@#$.

2. I think you misread what I meant. All those rappers weren't discovered by Kanye but he made it ok for them to be popular. They walk down his path. Of course Mos Def was one of the first rap artists to truly harmonize and make some non-bang bang shoot em up records but like I said they're actually all popular rappers.

CuDi's popular. Drake's Popular and yes Lupe is a popular artist. (Not necessarily Platinum artists but they're popular).

I can't even imagine what Mainstream Hip-Hop music would sound like without Kanye West (especially from 00-06).

3. He's not in the Top 5 rapper list but he makes better music than the typical rappers in most people's Top 5 right now.

4. That's not even relevant, because white suburban kids were/are buying rap records in bulk and still do. Em is just someone their hero.  And Jay-Z's the GOAT so...

 

[jc619er]

Originally Posted by presumed

Originally Posted by jc619er

There has been plenty of "classic" hip hop before Kanye and there will be plenty after. Kanye is a good artist no doubt but to say greatest of all time and his first four albums are classic, not even close. What never gets talked about is what makes Kanye albums so likable in the first place and that's because there is one singular sound on each album because it's one producer handling all the production. That's what makes a nice cohesive album and something that's enjoyable to listen to. As much as I HATE 808's, the one thing it does have going for it is unified production and I can understand why someone would really get into that album. Back in the day all Hip-Hop albums only had one producer and that's why so much of Hip-Hop's early years was so amazing and still so much fun to listen to because it was consistent. Look at all of Public Enemy's first albums, Beastie Boys, Run DMC, EPMD, Eric B. & Rakim, Gangstarr, N.W.A., Ice Cube, KRS-ONE, Big Daddy Kane, A Tribe Called Quest, etc. All those early albums had one producer or one team of producers throughout the whole album so you always got a nice consistent sound that kept you entertained. Nowadays you have all these garbage albums with no name producers or a collage of whoever's hot right now making beats or whatever and it's really hit and miss. It's like listening to an album that has one or two Primo tracks on it. Once you get to those songs they stand out head and shoulders above the rest of the songs and it makes the rest of the album passable. But now if you had an entire album of Primo beats you'd ride the whole time. Point being Group Home. Two of the most mediocre MCs of all time with one of the hardest albums ever becasuse Primo killed it for them on every track. And that brings me back to my point about Kanye. For all these younger listeners who are used to having these really badly produced albums where only a handful of tracks are really good, a Kanye album is incredible because he's handling the whole sound and making it consistent with the vision he has in his head. So that is why I can see his appeal being so high these days in the Hip Hop world because he's doing what used to be common place in Hip Hop. But as far as him being the greatest of all time, he'd have to a whole lot for that to ever happen. He'll definitely be an artist who changed the game and brought more people over to the world of Hip Hop but he will never be the greatest.

Nice post, maybe U should have divided it into paragraphs though... Outta curiosity who do u think is the GOAT

Yeah after reading back I should have split it up with paragraphs but that's what happens when you post at midnight right before you go to bed. But truthfully I can't say there's a GOAT in Hip Hop yet. I think time will still have to tell on that one. There are definitely people I think are better overall MCs than Kanye but people at this point are basing this whole post off the fact that he produces too.

But to answer the question my favorite MCs of all time are Chuck D, Rakim, KRS, Andre, Nas, Paris (he might be really militant and irrelevant now but back in the day his voice and flow on his first two albums was incredible), Inspektah Deck when he guest stars, Ghost, 2pac, Jay-Z, AZ and Em when he's not talking about killing and raping someone.

 

[chicagos finest 23]

808s classic? %!@ fruity kids these days.

 

[deuce king]

Originally Posted by devildog1776

Originally Posted by moneyisthemotive

THIS is the problem with the world today ... not hip hop or rap or music in general, but the entire WORLD ... when you got people claiming Kanye is the greatest in hip hop history, you know there isn't any hope for the human race ... smh

 

[cadillacflow]

I agree that Ye went 4/4.......and IMO he made 4 classics......

But, nothing compares to these first 4..... Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik, ATLiens, Aquimini, and Stankonia..... Not Jay, not Nas, etc.

 

[live boy d]

Originally Posted by MusicalExcellence

take yo *****assness to bed with u

maybe its cuz i dont care for wu tang... rza got some dope *@%* but he got alot of *@%* that sounds like noise to me...

either way... i dont care about what yall think about my opinions...

*shrugs

*writes a verse wit subliminals to all yall _s