If there was a WET...

[airant23]

YO! I only slightly browsed through everything that's been posted since the quote below, but I have to touch on it:

I read this and other comments like it and and can't help but think separate but equal and that seems to be what some of you are saying. And as I'm sure you know "separate but equal is inherently unequal". I don't see how black culture is so vastly different you need "black tv shows"... I fully understand and agree with the complaint you're under represented in television and media. But joint the club with every other minority.
That wasn't the intent of my example. I'm saying that there isn't any equality. It's just not there. I could cite tons of examplesthat would deviate from the point of this particular thread but it'd be useless. For the majority to "hand" the minorities only a margin of whatthey, as the majority, have and then get offended by the thought that minority groups aren't completely satisfied is laughable.

White privilege is real. It's not always deliberate. Usually not racist. But it is certainly exclusive.

DF!!!

 

[HEATHEN]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by SneakerHeathen

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by SneakerHeathen

Originally Posted by infamousod

CMT is the one that really comes to mind

and "WET" would fail horribly because nobody wants to be white, everyone wants to be black...unless they had a WET: Uncut which would have a 90% black audience and ratings would skyrocket

I don't want to be either black nor white....

Also....For everyone saying that every other channel is practically WET...

....

BET almost makes me feel alienated when I watch it at times....

No other channel (ABC, FOX, MTV, etc) does that....


BTW I'm brown if it matters...

well, that's because BET caters to a niche audience, whereas the major networks gear towards as many people as possible...

so you don't feel alienated when you watch CMT, Telemundo or the Asian Video Network?

you're brown? what about when you watch the Christian Television Network or the Evangelical Television Network?

Huge difference, those are "special interest" channels...

Would you consider BET a "special interest" channel?

so "Country Music"Television is somehow a "HUGE DIFFERENCE" from "Black Entertainment" Television?

CMT is a music channel for the most part....

Whereas BET is well, I don't know what BET is anymore....

Its not like Telemundo, why? Because Telemundo has never made me feel alienated...I can't explain why...

There's something about BET that really just makes me feel like, "you shouldn't be watching this" whereas Telemundo and AVN feel more like alearning experience...



I mean why the whole "Black Star Power" it has a very aggressive feel to it...

Just like "White Star Power" would also be very aggressive...

"Brown Star Power"....Doesn't sound like I should be watching....

BUT CMT, Telemundo, AVN, etc don't do that...

Why the need for "POWER".....

One thing to depict and educate....Another thing completely to alienate....


Its like, if I were to sit down and read the Qu'ran outloud in the park, I'm not alienating anyone I'm simply reciting the Qu'ran...

But if I we're to sit around and read the Qu'ran while having pauses where I yelled "MUSLIM POWER", I'd be alienating people instead ofjust educating and simply reciting the "Qu'ran"...


BET also alienates its Black viewers from watching other channels, as if one could be "Black" if you watch BET...


I don't feel more "Brown" when I watch PTV....I'm simply watching PTV, I'm not an advocate of "Paki Star Power" when I do watchPTV....

 

[paylessshoes]

Once again...This topic comes up and someone who has no idea what he's talking about once again, makes it. this cat iBlink is a sellout

i hate when people say "every other station is WET", Man i see all races on pretty much every station
As the maid? or paperboy? or security guard? or the angry DMV clerk, or Mailchecker?

come on dude, we don't mean a single non minority face, were talking about actually Black actors/actresess with major to supporting speaking parts whoaren't playing into sterotypes. Just because the secretary on a tv show is black, doesn't mean equality on TV has been achieved

Right Now i can only think of about 3 Black Oriented CURRENT TV shows on right now : Somebodies, House Of Panye & Chocolate News ( All Three are trash) butother than that, If Blacks aren't shucking and jiving, They're not getting on the air.

Black people can't have ANYTHING?...

 

[prurientsole]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by PrurientSole


If you'll read what I wrote with an objective eye, I've never once argued against BET.

However, to address the first part, implying racism in the face of facts doesn't make much sense at all. Yes, the major networks have colluded to exclude programming that centers around a black family, yet I, and many others, have already named plenty of shows that aired on a major network and did exactly that. BET certainly hasn't stepped up to the plate; in their 28 years on air, they've created just one sitcom, and it started airing only a few months ago.

You're right, I don't know what goes on in those meetings, but neither do you. How many shows starring a black family are they pitched per season? How do those shows rate with the audience? Are they bringing in the desired number of viewers? Could that programming slot be better suited for another type of show? Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...

plenty of shows? there have been like...9 named....in 40-50 years of original programming...

your last paragraph, again, strengthens my argument.....if shows geared toward black culture won't do well on "major" networks, then you're validating BET's place in the market....they are comfortable serving a niche market, whereas the major networks arent...how is this wrong?

i swear, if i have to repeat that point again, i'm going to turn this into a joke post by posting random .gifs and pictures until im banned and this is locked..

To quote ebayologist, "No, read what the #@%$ I wrote.

"

I'll repeat, and slowly this time:

I've.

Never.

Once.

Argued.

Against.

BET.

My point was, for all of this complaining about "white entertainment television", the major television networks have put out programming gearedtowards, and starring, black families for years; BET has done nothing of the sort, save for re-airing those very shows that the major networks put out in thefirst place. In light of those facts, how can you complain about a racial bias on the part of the major networks when even BET doesn't see fit to createthose types of shows for their "niche market"?

Do you even read, or do you just skim for something to act condescending about?

 

[HEATHEN]

PayLessShoes wrote:

---

Once again...This topic comes up and someone who has no idea what he's talking about once again, makes it. this cat iBlink is a sellout

i hate when people say "every other station is WET", Man i see all races on pretty much every station
As the maid? or paperboy? or security guard? or the angry DMV clerk, or Mailchecker?

come on dude, we don't mean a single non minority face, were talking about actually Black actors/actresess with major to supporting speaking parts who aren't playing into sterotypes. Just because the secretary on a tv show is black, doesn't mean equality on TV has been achieved

Right Now i can only think of about 3 Black Oriented CURRENT TV shows on right now : Somebodies, House Of Panye & Chocolate News ( All Three are trash) but other than that, If Blacks aren't shucking and jiving, They're not getting on the air.

Black people can't have ANYTHING?...

Black people should have "Black television"...


But if your vision of "Black television" is BET...then

.....


BET could be way better....

 

[HEATHEN]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by SneakerHeathen

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by SneakerHeathen

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

Originally Posted by SneakerHeathen

Originally Posted by infamousod

CMT is the one that really comes to mind

and "WET" would fail horribly because nobody wants to be white, everyone wants to be black...unless they had a WET: Uncut which would have a 90% black audience and ratings would skyrocket

I don't want to be either black nor white....

Also....For everyone saying that every other channel is practically WET...

....

BET almost makes me feel alienated when I watch it at times....

No other channel (ABC, FOX, MTV, etc) does that....


BTW I'm brown if it matters...

well, that's because BET caters to a niche audience, whereas the major networks gear towards as many people as possible...

so you don't feel alienated when you watch CMT, Telemundo or the Asian Video Network?

you're brown? what about when you watch the Christian Television Network or the Evangelical Television Network?

Huge difference, those are "special interest" channels...

Would you consider BET a "special interest" channel?

so "Country Music"Television is somehow a "HUGE DIFFERENCE" from "Black Entertainment" Television?

CMT is a music channel for the most part....

Whereas BET is well, I don't know what BET is anymore....

Its not like Telemundo, why? Because Telemundo has never made me feel alienated...I can't explain why...

There's something about BET that really just makes me feel like, "you shouldn't be watching this" whereas Telemundo and AVN feel more like a learning experience...



I mean why the whole "Black Star Power" it has a very aggressive feel to it...

Just like "White Star Power" would also be very aggresive...

"Brown Star Power"....Doesn't sound like I should be watching....

BUT CMT, Telemundo, AVN, etc don't do that...

Why the need for "POWER".....

One thing to depict and educate....Another thing completely to alienate....


Its like, if I were to sit down and read the Qu'ran outloud in the park, I'm not alienating anyone I'm simply reciting the Qu'ran...

But if I we're to sit around and read the Qu'ran while having pauses where I yelled "MUSLIM POWER", I'd be alienating people instead of just educating and simply reciting the "Qu'ran"...


BET also alienates its Black viewers from watching other channels, as if one could be "Black" if you watch BET...


I don't feel more "Brown" when I watch PTV....I'm simply watching PTV, I'm not an advocate of "Paki Star Power" when I do watch PTV....

i feel like everything you said is irrelevant....

why? i don't really know exactly, i just do....

(yes, i'm being a sarcastic $#+%)

@ a channel that's exclusively spanish-speaking alienating you less than a black-centered channel


i'm done here.

Missing my point...

But w/e...

 

[swyftdahoe]

lol Considering that everything by default is "white".. Seriously, there has to be more conservative television programming like Fox News.. Thoseright-wing nutcrackers are entertaining as hell..

 

[bmorekicks]

I mean why the whole "Black Star Power" it has a very aggressive feel to it...

Just like "White Star Power" would also be very aggresive...

"Brown Star Power"....Doesn't sound like I should be watching....

BUT CMT, Telemundo, AVN, etc don't do that...

Why the need for "POWER".....



White power = Supremacy
Black power = Equality
Thats a big difference

For all the people who hate BET, just turn the channel. Yall hate it so much, but are the first ones to comment on everything that happens on there.

There are a couple hundred channels catered to a certain audience on cable, yet yall have a problem with BET existing?

 

[prurientsole]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

thats funny, you never once argued against BET....thats what you typed right? just wanna make sure you know that i'm reading your post....

i argue against BET all the time, i actually hate it.

the major television networks have put out programming geared towards, and starring, black families for years

....yes, and once again, we have named LESS THAN 10 IN THE HISTORY OF BROADCAST TELEVISION, A MAJORITY OF WHICH ARE OLDER THAN NIKETALK IS....

did i not read your entire post this time and just skip to something i can respond in a condescending fashion toward?

i'm not in here advocating BET as a great channel that promotes positive images of black people or black culture....especially since they were sold off to viacom..

what i will defend is the IDEA of BET....the IDEA of serving a niche market of black americans, and developing a network that specifically caters toward them...THAT i will defend, especially against the idea that "BET isn't needed, there are PLENTY of black shows on the major networks"....or that the IDEA of BET is different from CMT, Telemundo or any of the other "niche" networks that exist on cable television...

i'm going to really try to stop posting here...i need to do work at work...

Fantastic. You did read. Smooches.

You just kept asking me "so what's wrong with a network wanting to attract black viewers with programming directly geared toward them? all themajority networks appeal to the majority.....i.e. white, so anyone not appealing to the majority, BET/Telemundo is somehow wrong, or hypocritical?",followed by "... how is this wrong?"...

And my answer is, it's not. It's fine. I agree with the premise of BET.

My quarrel was with the insinuation that major networks have colluded to push black, family-oriented programming off of their networks.

Let's take a look at how many "black" sitcoms the major networks have aired since 1980, the year that BET came into existence. To name a few(and yes, I did consult Wiki for some of the ones that I'd forgotten):

The Cosby Show
The Jeffersons (later episodes aired in the early '80s)
Family Matters
Fresh Prince
Hangin' with Mr. Cooper
The Jamie Foxx Show
Living Single
Martin
Roc
Moesha
The Sinbad Show
Sister, Sister
Thea
The Steve Harvey Show
The Wayans Brothers
My Wife and Kids
The Bernie Mac Show
Everybody Hates Chris

And on and on. Like I said, pretty much any black comedian who wanted a show was given one.

If you want to count shows like Diff'rent Strokes and Webster, whichrevolved around a black character but not necessarily a black family, then those are a few more to consider.

How many sitcoms did BET put out in that same period of time?

That was my point: How can major networks, which first aired all of the above-named shows and more, be decried for not producing more black, family-orientedshows when a network that specifically serves that very audience doesn't find it necessary to produce any of their own?

I understand the need for BET. Not the programming on it, but the premise of the network itself. I just didn't enjoy the hint of racism that was broughtinto the debate.

 

[ebayologist]

I'm still at a loss why there is a "need" for "black" shows. America is hardly this all black place so it's not like representationof reality… I understand wanting to feel represented in the media, television shows included and I get the qualm of all minorities that "we're"underrepresented in media. But it's very separatist ideal to even feel the need for media that's exclusive to your race and dumbfounds me. Especiallywhen in great deal black people are ultimately reasonably assimilated in to "American" culture and great deal of popular formally "black"culture is now basically popular culture i.e. Hip-Hop in it's current form… Black people in American are virtually all english speaking, so there's nolanguage barrier that creates some kind of culture divide. I don't get it. And I don't understand how you can be so divisive yet want this inherentlyunequal form of equality.

 

[iheartboost]

I can't stand BET. I hate some of the shows, and the programing is B-scripted,

 

[mytmouse76]

bet is not just about sitcoms...think of artist videos who only get played on bet...Jada...certain Fab singles...plus rappers and RnB artists i can't eventhink of...whether you like those artists or not BET isn't just about sitcoms...its started as and still is an outlet for many artist who aren't seeingplay on MTV or VH1 hell with TRL ending sunday i don't know when MTV is going to play videos...

 

[ebayologist]

^MTV Jams plays everything BET plays (minus when there was BET Uncut) and probably more as far as Hip-Hop goes.

 

[mytmouse76]

i don't have MTVJams... i'm sure most people don't...

 

[kix4kix]

Of course I would be offended by WET. Who wouldn't?

Entertainment and sports are one in the same. They are the ONLY PROFESSIONS THAT ARE NOT PREJUDICED. Talent conquers all. Why does there need to be BET?..Otherthan the fact that there are plenty of bad role models for young black youth.

For those of you debating the necessity of BET

We haven't needed BET for years. The programming fell off way before it was bought out by viacom : Which was a while back.

keyshia cole you have to be kidding me

 

[airant23]

YO!

I'm still at a loss why there is a "need" for "black" shows. America is hardly this all black place so it's not like representation of reality… I understand wanting to feel represented in the media, television shows included and I get the qualm of all minorities that "we're" underrepresented in media. But it's very separatist ideal to even feel the need for media that's exclusive to your race and dumbfounds me. Especially when in great deal black people are ultimately reasonably assimilated in to "American" culture and great deal of popular formally "black" culture is now basically popular culture i.e. Hip-Hop in it's current form… Black people in American are virtually all english speaking, so there's no language barrier that creates some kind of culture divide. I don't get it. And I don't understand how you can be so divisive yet want this inherently unequal form of equality.
Well here is an issue for me, and I'm speaking for myself here:

As a black man - it seems I have two options. Either assimilate (i.e., appear only marginally black) or create something of my own that is nearly exclusive toBlack people. The former being to gain White acceptance, the latter acceptance in my own community.

I am in full agreement that White Americans and Black Americans are not inherently different. No language barrier. Basically rode over here together

ButI doubt many of my White classmates ever, at any point in their lives, felt as though their individual successes and failures would represent more thanthemselves. And to me that is the lack of equality. If I under perform, there should be doubts about MY abilities... not all Black men.

(that example can be applied to network programming)

DF!!!

 

[mytmouse76]

most of ya'll complaining about the programming of BET i'm sure are listening to the same rap music played on bet that help push the same stereotypesshown on tv and you beast over the same naked women in videos played on BET...at most you can complain about american ganster but then some of you are inthreads talkinb bout Rayful this...Frank Lucas that...

 

[iblink]

I made this thread before I even brush my teeth this morning and now it's at 7 or 8 pages

It's ill to me how so many of you guys missed the point I was trying to make.

 

[5iveonit]

Originally Posted by PrurientSole

Originally Posted by eNPHAN

thats funny, you never once argued against BET....thats what you typed right? just wanna make sure you know that i'm reading your post....

i argue against BET all the time, i actually hate it.

the major television networks have put out programming geared towards, and starring, black families for years

....yes, and once again, we have named LESS THAN 10 IN THE HISTORY OF BROADCAST TELEVISION, A MAJORITY OF WHICH ARE OLDER THAN NIKETALK IS....

did i not read your entire post this time and just skip to something i can respond in a condescending fashion toward?

i'm not in here advocating BET as a great channel that promotes positive images of black people or black culture....especially since they were sold off to viacom..

what i will defend is the IDEA of BET....the IDEA of serving a niche market of black americans, and developing a network that specifically caters toward them...THAT i will defend, especially against the idea that "BET isn't needed, there are PLENTY of black shows on the major networks"....or that the IDEA of BET is different from CMT, Telemundo or any of the other "niche" networks that exist on cable television...

i'm going to really try to stop posting here...i need to do work at work...

Fantastic. You did read. Smooches.

You just kept asking me "so what's wrong with a network wanting to attract black viewers with programming directly geared toward them? all the majority networks appeal to the majority.....i.e. white, so anyone not appealing to the majority, BET/Telemundo is somehow wrong, or hypocritical?", followed by "... how is this wrong?"...

And my answer is, it's not. It's fine. I agree with the premise of BET.

My quarrel was with the insinuation that major networks have colluded to push black, family-oriented programming off of their networks.

Let's take a look at how many "black" sitcoms the major networks have aired since 1980, the year that BET came into existence. To name a few (and yes, I did consult Wiki for some of the ones that I'd forgotten):

The Cosby Show
The Jefferson's (later episodes aired in the early '80s)
Family Matters
Fresh Prince
Hangin' with Mr. Cooper
The Jamie Foxx Show
Living Single
Martin
Roc
Moesha
The Sinbad Show
Sister, Sister
Thea
The Steve Harvey Show
The Wayans Brothers
My Wife and Kids
The Bernie Mac Show
Everybody Hates Chris

And on and on. Like I said, pretty much any black comedian who wanted a show was given one.

If you want to count shows like Diff'rent Strokes and Webster, which revolved around a black character but not necessarily a black family, then those are a few more to consider.

How many sitcoms did BET put out in that same period of time?

That was my point: How can major networks, which first aired all of the above-named shows and more, be decried for not producing more black, family-oriented shows when a network that specifically serves that very audience doesn't find it necessary to produce any of their own?

I understand the need for BET. Not the programming on it, but the premise of the network itself. I just didn't enjoy the hint of racism that was brought into the debate.




man, i HAD to log into my girl's *!% to get my last spit off...

This is why i said, by the second exchange between you and me, "im not even trynna argue" because...we arent even in disagreement....

i don't like BET, but like i said, i will defend it against the original point of this thread..

And my answer is, it's not. It's fine. I agree with the premise of BET.

agreed

My quarrel was with the insinuation that major networks have colluded to push black, family-oriented programming off of their networks.
i didn't say that.....

i did say that the major networks are white-centered....therefore, to see programming SPECIFICALLY geared towards the black community, you'd have to goelsewhere....

you named 20 shows in 20 years....i could argue a few, replace one with another, ect. but that's irrelevant....

20 shows in 20 years isn't FANTASTIC by any means...pssssh, there are more than 20 shows that debut a QUARTER...

but my point is this.....i can't even compare BET to CMT or Telemundo...

people ACTUALLY argue that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the PRIMISE of BET and Telemundo....

Black people in American are virtually all english speaking, so there's no language barrier that creates some kind of culture divide.
go google african american vernacular english

@no language barrier

and great deal of popular formally "black" culture is now basically popular culture
again, so if white people accept it, it's somehow no longer black? it's popular?

I'm still at a loss why there is a "need" for "black" shows.

, which is why OUR discussion has ended.

BET isn't just about sitcoms..

thank you.

I just didn't enjoy the hint of racism that was brought into the debate.
que? from me?

All i said is "WET exists as the OTHER 199 channels"

that's about as racist as arguing school history textbooks are "white history"

why do you think you have to specify "black history month" or "black entertainment television"?

E! is just Entertainment Television...the White is implied....

how is any of that racist tho?

biased? certainly...

brash? a great deal...

jaded? you betcha....

but racist?

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by AirAnt23

YO!

I'm still at a loss why there is a "need" for "black" shows. America is hardly this all black place so it's not like representation of reality… I understand wanting to feel represented in the media, television shows included and I get the qualm of all minorities that "we're" underrepresented in media. But it's very separatist ideal to even feel the need for media that's exclusive to your race and dumbfounds me. Especially when in great deal black people are ultimately reasonably assimilated in to "American" culture and great deal of popular formally "black" culture is now basically popular culture i.e. Hip-Hop in it's current form… Black people in American are virtually all english speaking, so there's no language barrier that creates some kind of culture divide. I don't get it. And I don't understand how you can be so divisive yet want this inherently unequal form of equality.

Well here is an issue for me, and I'm speaking for myself here:

As a black man - it seems I have two options. Either assimilate (i.e., appear only marginally black) or create something of my own that is nearly exclusive to Black people. The former being to gain White acceptance, the latter acceptance in my own community.

I am in fully agreement that White Americans and Black Americans are not inherently different. No language barrier. Basically rode over here together

But I doubt many of my White classmates ever, at any point in their lives, felt as though their individual successes and failures would represent more than themselves. And to me that is the lack of equality. If I under perform, there should be doubts about MY abilities... not all Black men.

(that example can be applied to network programming)

DF!!!


I disagree.

Your argument would be valid if you felt that BET is giving people (Blacks) what they want.

If BET aired shows about positivity such as social issues, books, and politics would blacks still watch?

Or would they conform to other media where BLACKS are MORE present than whites.

Name one career of a black entertainer that BET made?

MTV made hip-hop commercial not BET

Stating that poor television is better than no television is a poor argument

 

[southzeztpdot]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by AirAnt23

YO!

I'm still at a loss why there is a "need" for "black" shows. America is hardly this all black place so it's not like representation of reality… I understand wanting to feel represented in the media, television shows included and I get the qualm of all minorities that "we're" underrepresented in media. But it's very separatist ideal to even feel the need for media that's exclusive to your race and dumbfounds me. Especially when in great deal black people are ultimately reasonably assimilated in to "American" culture and great deal of popular formally "black" culture is now basically popular culture i.e. Hip-Hop in it's current form… Black people in American are virtually all english speaking, so there's no language barrier that creates some kind of culture divide. I don't get it. And I don't understand how you can be so divisive yet want this inherently unequal form of equality.

Well here is an issue for me, and I'm speaking for myself here:

As a black man - it seems I have two options. Either assimilate (i.e., appear only marginally black) or create something of my own that is nearly exclusive to Black people. The former being to gain White acceptance, the latter acceptance in my own community.

I am in fully agreement that White Americans and Black Americans are not inherently different. No language barrier. Basically rode over here together

But I doubt many of my White classmates ever, at any point in their lives, felt as though their individual successes and failures would represent more than themselves. And to me that is the lack of equality. If I under perform, there should be doubts about MY abilities... not all Black men.

(that example can be applied to network programming)

DF!!!

I disagree.

Your argument would be valid if you felt that BET is giving people (Blacks) what they want.

If BET aired shows about positivity such as social issues, books, and politics would blacks still watch?

Or would they conform to other media where BLACKS are MORE present than whites.

Name one career of a black entertainer that BET made?

MTV made hip-hop commercial not BET

Stating that poor television is better than no television is a poor argument


Um. Bet basically made Bow Wows career.

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by iBlink

I made this thread before I even brush my teeth this morning and now it's at 7 or 8 pages

It's ill to me how so many of you guys missed the point I was trying to make.

HMmmm

White Entertainment Television with the slogan White Star Power...

would you trip?
I don't see a point being made. Seems open-ended to me.

Um. Bet basically made Bow Wows career.
Where would we be without him

 

[b smooth 202]

The reason why we have BET, Ebony magazine, and plenty of other things labeled BLACK...is because BLACK was separatedfrom mainstream American culture.

Not because there are racial double standards that allow us to have our own television networks and things.

 

[feelmode]

There is a lot i could touch on in this thread but ill just leave it be.



I will let it be known how much Uncut and the real Rap City are missed tho'

 

[he told on me]

Originally Posted by 360wavesandxbox

No..welcome to ABC..NBC..Fox...MTV...

My thoughts exactly