Is Dwyane Wade the 3rd best SG of all time?

[DCAllAfrican]

I agree with you on that. Wade is the more efficient scorer between the two. No argument there.
But my point is percentages do not translate to who the superior scorer is, rather it translates to who the more efficient scorer is.
As for what your asking, there is no statistic that can give you what your looking for. You wanna know why Iverson is a better scorer/shooter but all we have statistically are percentages (which we both agree are not the deciding factor to who the better scorer is). Essentially, this argument is just a never ending cycle because who the better scorer is really just boils down to opinion after a certain point.

If that is how you keep your Iverson dreams alive cool.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

But on the real, if we are looking at two players with similar usages, fgas, and minutes played, why can't we use long term efg%/TS% as a way to gauge who the better scorer is?

Two players that get the majority of their points in the same fashion at that. (Not like the Dirk/TD comparison).

So why exactly shouldn't we use that to determine who the BETTER scorer is?

 

[ucm92]

If Iverson was the third best shooting guard of all time, he'd still be in the league, but he's not. He never won anything, only made it to one Finals appearance, and fell off quickly. If we are going to talk about best all time, then you have to factor in the player's entire career, and Iverson's career just doesn't compare to Wade's. You can make a case for Gervin being better than Wade, but he never made a Finals appearance either. Drexler maybe might be ranked ahead of Wade, but he never won a championship as "the man" on his team, nor did he ever win MVP. I don't even know if you could consider him a top 5 player in his day.

Fell off quickly ? What ? He came in the league in 96. In ai's 10th season, 05-06 he averaged 33 and 8 dude come on. in 07-08 he averaged 26 and 7. That's not falling off. 

 

[powerballin]

If Iverson was the third best shooting guard of all time, he'd still be in the league, but he's not. He never won anything, only made it to one Finals appearance, and fell off quickly. If we are going to talk about best all time, then you have to factor in the player's entire career, and Iverson's career just doesn't compare to Wade's. You can make a case for Gervin being better than Wade, but he never made a Finals appearance either. Drexler maybe might be ranked ahead of Wade, but he never won a championship as "the man" on his team, nor did he ever win MVP. I don't even know if you could consider him a top 5 player in his day.

 yeah ok.  never won anything expect MVP and scoring titles.  Fell off quickly?  C'mon are you serious? Iverson had a loooooong run before his game fell off. You talk about Iverson like he's Steve Francis

 

[lver of jordan]

 

[ill steelo]

But on the real, if we are looking at two players with similar usages, fgas, and minutes played, why can't we use long term efg%/TS% as a way to gauge who the better scorer is?

Two players that get the majority of their points in the same fashion at that.

Using too much logic DC.

 

[ballinboykz]

No.

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. West (and until the logo changes, I doubt he will move from this spot)
4. Oscar
5. Drexler
6. Ginobli
7. Wade

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Oooh, Manu over Wade? Explain that one please.

 

[ucm92]

Oooh, Manu over Wade? Explain that one please.

 

[JD617]

Wade has scored more points per 36 minutes than Iverson (their prime years are basically a wash) AND done so with much higher efficiency. Higher/equal volume AND higher efficiency = better scorer, does it not?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Wade has scored more points per 36 minutes than Iverson (their prime years are basically a wash) AND done so with much higher efficiency. Higher/equal volume AND higher efficiency = better scorer, does it not?

I mean, I was trying to be nice to the kid Melo since he clearly is an Iverson fan. I didn't go as hard as I could have. You can though.

 

[MajinZuub]

Oscar Robertson was a shooting guard?

 

[Trillmatic90]

But on the real, if we are looking at two players with similar usages, fgas, and minutes played, why can't we use long term efg%/TS% as a way to gauge who the better scorer is?
Two players that get the majority of their points in the same fashion at that. (Not like the Dirk/TD comparison).
So why exactly shouldn't we use that to determine who the BETTER scorer is?

Okay, so do you think that Wade is a better scorer than Kobe? Yes or no. (efg%, ts%, and fg% are all higher for Wade)

 

[gotjz]

It's an interesting conversation, but to put him at 3rd I believe you would really have to think hard. I don't think Wade is a unanimous 3rd best SG all-time, but it is a conversation to be had. As with the Iverson/Wade debate, I feel as if you have to give the nod to AI. From watching Wade, you can find guys that can match-up with him and slow him down. From watching AI, I don't recall ever seeing anyone slow him down. If he had a bad game, his shots weren't falling (more of them weren't falling lol) or he wasn't getting to the line that particular game. There was no one in the league that could match-up with AI...

 

[acbboyz84]

Wade has scored more points per 36 minutes than Iverson (their prime years are basically a wash) AND done so with much higher efficiency. Higher/equal volume AND higher efficiency = better scorer, does it not?

If you go by numbers yes. But fg% is misleading and does not tell 100% of the game.

Iverson has more offensive skills than Wade despite being so little. Dwade Wade ain't touching Iverson in term of shooting three neither

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Okay, so do you think that Wade is a better scorer than Kobe? Yes or no. (efg%, ts%, and fg% are all higher for Wade)

The argument can be made in favor of Wade if those things you mentioned are in fact true.

I mean to me it is as simple as this.

If I have two players, that shoot around the same amount of shots and one shoots a significantly higher % than the other I don't know how I can defend the player with the lower fg% of the two. I just can't see myself doing that.

 

[ballinboykz]

Only player to win an NBA championship (3), Euro championship, and gold medal. Everywhere he has played he's won, or been quite successful.

Im not going to totally hold the Miami tanked season against Wade, but to me if he was so great his team wouldnt have been like that.

I know it sounds stupid especially considering he's played with Duncan and Parker for most of his career. I just believe when its all said and done, Manu's career is much more successful than Wades. At least in my opinion if they both were to retire today.

Of course I will be the clear minority in this one though. Ive accepted it ha.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

If you go by numbers yes. But fg% is misleading and does not tell 100% of the game.
Iverson has more offensive skills than Wade despite being so little. Dwade Wade ain't touching Iverson in term of shooting three neither

Which offensive skills are those?

I mean Iverson is a more creative ball handler, cool. But they both get folks up out of their personal space so that doesn't really matter.

So what other offensive skills does Iverson posses that are > Wade?

Wade isn't TOUCHING Iverson from 3, well stop exaggerating your point there. Nothing significant as you are speaking of. But we gave AI the nod from 3.

But to combat your first point, nobody is simply looking at FG%

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Only player to win an NBA championship (3), Euro championship, and gold medal. Everywhere he has played he's won, or been quite successful.
Im not going to totally hold the Miami tanked season against Wade, but to me if he was so great his team wouldnt have been like that.
I know it sounds stupid especially considering he's played with Duncan and Parker for most of his career. I just believe when its all said and done, Manu's career is much more successful than Wades. At least in my opinion if they both were to retire today.
Of course I will be the clear minority in this one though. Ive accepted it ha.

I can respect the perspective.

 

[ucm92]

I'd go with Ai, one of the bigger reasons is longevity. Yeah I mean I guess wade's more efficient but wade came in the L in 03-04, this is his 10th season this year  and he's definitely on the decline. He isn't the player he was, not even 5 years ago. I know Bron coming over is gonna hamper is production, but anyone watching the heat over the past few seasons will tell you that. In ai's 10th year he was putting up career numbers at 33 and 8. In his 12th year, 07-08 he was still at 26 and 7. When you start talking about efficiency of course ai's isn't going to be as high. He was the lone man offensively for the majority of his career. When he got with Melo thusly his efficiency increased. Wade is amazing though. Jordan, Kobe, Ai, Wade. 

 

[DCAllAfrican]

It's an interesting conversation, but to put him at 3rd I believe you would really have to think hard. I don't think Wade is a unanimous 3rd best SG all-time, but it is a conversation to be had. As with the Iverson/Wade debate, I feel as if you have to give the nod to AI. From watching Wade, you can find guys that can match-up with him and slow him down. From watching AI, I don't recall ever seeing anyone slow him down. If he had a bad game, his shots weren't falling (more of them weren't falling lol) or he wasn't getting to the line that particular game. There was no one in the league that could match-up with AI...

Which Wade are you "watching." Let me know please.

 

[antidope]

 

Only player to win an NBA championship (3), Euro championship, and gold medal. Everywhere he has played he's won, or been quite successful.

Im not going to totally hold the Miami tanked season against Wade, but to me if he was so great his team wouldnt have been like that.

I know it sounds stupid especially considering he's played with Duncan and Parker for most of his career. I just believe when its all said and done, Manu's career is much more successful than Wades. At least in my opinion if they both were to retire today.

Of course I will be the clear minority in this one though. Ive accepted it ha.

You're not alone bro. In an alternate universe where Manu runs his own team, no doubt in my mind he would have been getting 28 a game like it was nothing. Manus greatness is vastly under rated. I accepted it back in 2007 when people were actually saying Rip Hamilton was better than him, and people were being serious....

 

[JD617]

Edit: This thread... 

 

[ucm92]

It's an interesting conversation, but to put him at 3rd I believe you would really have to think hard. I don't think Wade is a unanimous 3rd best SG all-time, but it is a conversation to be had. As with the Iverson/Wade debate, I feel as if you have to give the nod to AI. From watching Wade, you can find guys that can match-up with him and slow him down. From watching AI, I don't recall ever seeing anyone slow him down. If he had a bad game, his shots weren't falling (more of them weren't falling lol) or he wasn't getting to the line that particular game. There was no one in the league that could match-up with AI...

Definitely see what you're talking about. I see this too. Especially in the last few years. I don't know if it's because he's hurt, but dude doesn't beat people like he use too. His athleticism isn't what it once was. It's like he's a step slower. 

 

[dmvisrnb]

AI is absolutely > D.Wade, and I don't care if he gets 5,6,7,8...