Is it just the Jordan mystique that makes him the "undisputed" GOAT?

[daiernchef]

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Originally Posted by daiernchef

All the playoff recoeds are like Favre's records, you dont think Lebron will break all them in time, except PPG in playoffs... Im just gonna say im born and raised chicago and i remember him being a ballhog and not letting us see pippens true talents until Jordan went to play Baseball then if you recall Pippen was in the MVP running and the Bulls made the playoffs as a good seed and came a BAD CALL against the Knicks from being in the Finals with PETE MYERS as 2 guard, not DREXLER, NOT MILLER, PETE MYERS... So would everyone please stop acting like HE WAS THE TEAM he wasnt, 4 of the best 3 point shooters EVER in B.J. Paxson Kerr and Hodges, PIPPEN RODMAN KUKOCH, Plus the talent was better then? are u serious?? There was no D Rose when jordan played no Lebron and a young SHAQ, Bird retired Magic old and fat, Jordan played the CAVS 2 times in the eastern conference finals and there best player was EHLO and DAUGHERTY?? GARBAGE When lebron has had to go thru Boston with 4 HOF's Detroit who went to 5 str8 EC finals, 3 HOF's in the Finals against Spurs plus noone from Jordans era got rings except HAKEEM, Malone Stockton Miller Barkley, Peyton, all played about 20 year careers and Jordan won six so i would imagine if they were as GREAT as everyone claims they could have won a ring in the other 14 years that Jordan didnt... its purely this wack mystique that everyone treats like rappers when it comes to snitchin and they just wont say anyone is better, i heard Mike Greenberg say aand i quote "I dont care if Lebron or anybody wins 12 str8 rings i just cant picture myself saying ANYONE is better then MJ" thats just lame and its because he used to cover the bulls.... but thats typical MJ fan

Born and raised in Chicago but a Patriots fan?

Actually a Tom Brady fan sorry if thats against your rules of "from chicago i should like jim mcmahon" and whats that got to do with what i said? Grow up and get some valid points man is everyone 12 on here??
  

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by daiernchef

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Originally Posted by daiernchef

All the playoff recoeds are like Favre's records, you dont think Lebron will break all them in time, except PPG in playoffs... Im just gonna say im born and raised chicago and i remember him being a ballhog and not letting us see pippens true talents until Jordan went to play Baseball then if you recall Pippen was in the MVP running and the Bulls made the playoffs as a good seed and came a BAD CALL against the Knicks from being in the Finals with PETE MYERS as 2 guard, not DREXLER, NOT MILLER, PETE MYERS... So would everyone please stop acting like HE WAS THE TEAM he wasnt, 4 of the best 3 point shooters EVER in B.J. Paxson Kerr and Hodges, PIPPEN RODMAN KUKOCH, Plus the talent was better then? are u serious?? There was no D Rose when jordan played no Lebron and a young SHAQ, Bird retired Magic old and fat, Jordan played the CAVS 2 times in the eastern conference finals and there best player was EHLO and DAUGHERTY?? GARBAGE When lebron has had to go thru Boston with 4 HOF's Detroit who went to 5 str8 EC finals, 3 HOF's in the Finals against Spurs plus noone from Jordans era got rings except HAKEEM, Malone Stockton Miller Barkley, Peyton, all played about 20 year careers and Jordan won six so i would imagine if they were as GREAT as everyone claims they could have won a ring in the other 14 years that Jordan didnt... its purely this wack mystique that everyone treats like rappers when it comes to snitchin and they just wont say anyone is better, i heard Mike Greenberg say aand i quote "I dont care if Lebron or anybody wins 12 str8 rings i just cant picture myself saying ANYONE is better then MJ" thats just lame and its because he used to cover the bulls.... but thats typical MJ fan

Born and raised in Chicago but a Patriots fan?

Actually a Tom Brady fan sorry if thats against your rules of "from chicago i should like jim mcmahon" and whats that got to do with what i said? Grow up and get some valid points man is everyone 12 on here??
  

This coming from someone whose grammar suggests an elementary school education.

@ the quality of this forum recently. I guess Wade was right, the world is a better place when the Heat are losing.

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by daiernchef

Originally Posted by HankMoody

Originally Posted by daiernchef

All the playoff recoeds are like Favre's records, you dont think Lebron will break all them in time, except PPG in playoffs... Im just gonna say im born and raised chicago and i remember him being a ballhog and not letting us see pippens true talents until Jordan went to play Baseball then if you recall Pippen was in the MVP running and the Bulls made the playoffs as a good seed and came a BAD CALL against the Knicks from being in the Finals with PETE MYERS as 2 guard, not DREXLER, NOT MILLER, PETE MYERS... So would everyone please stop acting like HE WAS THE TEAM he wasnt, 4 of the best 3 point shooters EVER in B.J. Paxson Kerr and Hodges, PIPPEN RODMAN KUKOCH, Plus the talent was better then? are u serious?? There was no D Rose when jordan played no Lebron and a young SHAQ, Bird retired Magic old and fat, Jordan played the CAVS 2 times in the eastern conference finals and there best player was EHLO and DAUGHERTY?? GARBAGE When lebron has had to go thru Boston with 4 HOF's Detroit who went to 5 str8 EC finals, 3 HOF's in the Finals against Spurs plus noone from Jordans era got rings except HAKEEM, Malone Stockton Miller Barkley, Peyton, all played about 20 year careers and Jordan won six so i would imagine if they were as GREAT as everyone claims they could have won a ring in the other 14 years that Jordan didnt... its purely this wack mystique that everyone treats like rappers when it comes to snitchin and they just wont say anyone is better, i heard Mike Greenberg say aand i quote "I dont care if Lebron or anybody wins 12 str8 rings i just cant picture myself saying ANYONE is better then MJ" thats just lame and its because he used to cover the bulls.... but thats typical MJ fan

Born and raised in Chicago but a Patriots fan?

Actually a Tom Brady fan sorry if thats against your rules of "from chicago i should like jim mcmahon" and whats that got to do with what i said? Grow up and get some valid points man is everyone 12 on here??
  

This coming from someone whose grammar suggests an elementary school education.

@ the quality of this forum recently. I guess Wade was right, the world is a better place when the Heat are losing.

 

[daiernchef]

2 WORDS = PETE MYERS.... We all saw what happened to the cavs when Lebron left plus you all say NBA is watered down now?? Well Jordan Left when the NBA was "TOUGHER" according to you guys and Pete Myers carried them thru that TOUGH NBA to the playoffs and almost finals... so YOU decide what was the difference, Lebron leaves cavs AWFUL, Jordan leaves Bulls still great with PETE MYERS and TOUGH NBA????? JOKES

 

[daiernchef]

2 WORDS = PETE MYERS.... We all saw what happened to the cavs when Lebron left plus you all say NBA is watered down now?? Well Jordan Left when the NBA was "TOUGHER" according to you guys and Pete Myers carried them thru that TOUGH NBA to the playoffs and almost finals... so YOU decide what was the difference, Lebron leaves cavs AWFUL, Jordan leaves Bulls still great with PETE MYERS and TOUGH NBA????? JOKES

 

[swyftdahoe]

NO. It's the 6 rings (which should've/could've been

and utter sheer domination.

 

[swyftdahoe]

NO. It's the 6 rings (which should've/could've been

and utter sheer domination.

 

[daiernchef]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by daiernchef

Originally Posted by HankMoody




Born and raised in Chicago but a Patriots fan?

Actually a Tom Brady fan sorry if thats against your rules of "from chicago i should like jim mcmahon" and whats that got to do with what i said? Grow up and get some valid points man is everyone 12 on here??
  

This coming from someone whose grammar suggests an elementary school education.

@ the quality of this forum recently. I guess Wade was right, the world is a better place when the Heat are losing.

yeah classic 12 year old answers, nothing about the topic just classic forum attack the man making all the points... Why even post with nothing useful to say??? i know why cus your a loser...

  

 

[daiernchef]

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

Originally Posted by daiernchef

Originally Posted by HankMoody




Born and raised in Chicago but a Patriots fan?

Actually a Tom Brady fan sorry if thats against your rules of "from chicago i should like jim mcmahon" and whats that got to do with what i said? Grow up and get some valid points man is everyone 12 on here??
  

This coming from someone whose grammar suggests an elementary school education.

@ the quality of this forum recently. I guess Wade was right, the world is a better place when the Heat are losing.

yeah classic 12 year old answers, nothing about the topic just classic forum attack the man making all the points... Why even post with nothing useful to say??? i know why cus your a loser...

  

 

[university of nike]

Originally Posted by daiernchef

2 WORDS = PETE MYERS.... We all saw what happened to the cavs when Lebron left plus you all say NBA is watered down now?? Well Jordan Left when the NBA was "TOUGHER" according to you guys and Pete Myers carried them thru that TOUGH NBA to the playoffs and almost finals... so YOU decide what was the difference, Lebron leaves cavs AWFUL, Jordan leaves Bulls still great with PETE MYERS and TOUGH NBA????? JOKES

This is a terrible comparison. The Bulls had Pippen, and the Cavs best player is JJ Hickson.

 

[university of nike]

Originally Posted by daiernchef

2 WORDS = PETE MYERS.... We all saw what happened to the cavs when Lebron left plus you all say NBA is watered down now?? Well Jordan Left when the NBA was "TOUGHER" according to you guys and Pete Myers carried them thru that TOUGH NBA to the playoffs and almost finals... so YOU decide what was the difference, Lebron leaves cavs AWFUL, Jordan leaves Bulls still great with PETE MYERS and TOUGH NBA????? JOKES

This is a terrible comparison. The Bulls had Pippen, and the Cavs best player is JJ Hickson.

 

[daiernchef]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

Originally Posted by daiernchef

2 WORDS = PETE MYERS.... We all saw what happened to the cavs when Lebron left plus you all say NBA is watered down now?? Well Jordan Left when the NBA was "TOUGHER" according to you guys and Pete Myers carried them thru that TOUGH NBA to the playoffs and almost finals... so YOU decide what was the difference, Lebron leaves cavs AWFUL, Jordan leaves Bulls still great with PETE MYERS and TOUGH NBA????? JOKES

This is a terrible comparison. The Bulls had Pippen, and the Cavs best player is JJ Hickson.

ohhh so pippen gets respect because of how i compared them so now he's good, but when talking about Jordan Pippen was NOTHING without him, sorry it cant be both ways even though i know MJ lovers want it both ways... Facts are Facts, and give Pippen his RESPECT ALWAYS not just when its helpful to you..

 

[daiernchef]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

Originally Posted by daiernchef

2 WORDS = PETE MYERS.... We all saw what happened to the cavs when Lebron left plus you all say NBA is watered down now?? Well Jordan Left when the NBA was "TOUGHER" according to you guys and Pete Myers carried them thru that TOUGH NBA to the playoffs and almost finals... so YOU decide what was the difference, Lebron leaves cavs AWFUL, Jordan leaves Bulls still great with PETE MYERS and TOUGH NBA????? JOKES

This is a terrible comparison. The Bulls had Pippen, and the Cavs best player is JJ Hickson.

ohhh so pippen gets respect because of how i compared them so now he's good, but when talking about Jordan Pippen was NOTHING without him, sorry it cant be both ways even though i know MJ lovers want it both ways... Facts are Facts, and give Pippen his RESPECT ALWAYS not just when its helpful to you..

 

[DCAllAfrican]

When will all of you realize it is generational to call Mike the best? If we were in the 70s, I am sure we heard one thing. I am sure 100 years from now, we will hear something else. Jordan is the best of his era. Point blank.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

When will all of you realize it is generational to call Mike the best? If we were in the 70s, I am sure we heard one thing. I am sure 100 years from now, we will hear something else. Jordan is the best of his era. Point blank.

 

[university of nike]

Originally Posted by daiernchef

Originally Posted by University of Nike

Originally Posted by daiernchef

2 WORDS = PETE MYERS.... We all saw what happened to the cavs when Lebron left plus you all say NBA is watered down now?? Well Jordan Left when the NBA was "TOUGHER" according to you guys and Pete Myers carried them thru that TOUGH NBA to the playoffs and almost finals... so YOU decide what was the difference, Lebron leaves cavs AWFUL, Jordan leaves Bulls still great with PETE MYERS and TOUGH NBA????? JOKES

This is a terrible comparison. The Bulls had Pippen, and the Cavs best player is JJ Hickson.

ohhh so pippen gets respect because of how i compared them so now he's good, but when talking about Jordan Pippen was NOTHING without him, sorry it cant be both ways even though i know MJ lovers want it both ways... Facts are Facts, and give Pippen his RESPECT ALWAYS not just when its helpful to you..

Where have I said anything about Pippen? Don't put words in my mouth.

Pippen gets just as much credit for the Bulls winning as MJ himself. However:
5x MVP.
14x All-Star.
6x Finals MVP.
DPOY
9x All-NBA Defensive Team
10 scoring titles.
Career regular season scoring average of 30.1 points.
Career playoff scoring average of 33.4 points.
5,987 career playoff points.

Are INDIVIDUAL stats/accomplishments.

 

[university of nike]

Originally Posted by daiernchef

Originally Posted by University of Nike

Originally Posted by daiernchef

2 WORDS = PETE MYERS.... We all saw what happened to the cavs when Lebron left plus you all say NBA is watered down now?? Well Jordan Left when the NBA was "TOUGHER" according to you guys and Pete Myers carried them thru that TOUGH NBA to the playoffs and almost finals... so YOU decide what was the difference, Lebron leaves cavs AWFUL, Jordan leaves Bulls still great with PETE MYERS and TOUGH NBA????? JOKES

This is a terrible comparison. The Bulls had Pippen, and the Cavs best player is JJ Hickson.

ohhh so pippen gets respect because of how i compared them so now he's good, but when talking about Jordan Pippen was NOTHING without him, sorry it cant be both ways even though i know MJ lovers want it both ways... Facts are Facts, and give Pippen his RESPECT ALWAYS not just when its helpful to you..

Where have I said anything about Pippen? Don't put words in my mouth.

Pippen gets just as much credit for the Bulls winning as MJ himself. However:
5x MVP.
14x All-Star.
6x Finals MVP.
DPOY
9x All-NBA Defensive Team
10 scoring titles.
Career regular season scoring average of 30.1 points.
Career playoff scoring average of 33.4 points.
5,987 career playoff points.

Are INDIVIDUAL stats/accomplishments.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

daiernchef made some good points. It is very disrespectful to Scottie whenever people make it seem like Jordan did all of this on his own. Which was most people's main argument against LeBron, Jordan did what LeBron couldn't do, win on his own. Jordan did what Kobe didn't do, win on his own (without Shaq/Pau). So I don't know why people keep insinuating that Jordan took a team full of scrubs to 6 rings.

He played with two former hall of famers.
He played for one of the best coaches on the pro level.

Jordan was great and I am not taking anything away from him, but I wish there was a way we could measure Jordan without his shoes and pop appeal being an influence because those things cloud many people's judgment when it comes to these discussions.

Jordan was great, but I just hate the God like pedestal he is placed on. As if nothing he did was insufficient. As if he wasn't known as a terrible teammate (just like Kobe), but we hate Kobe for that same reason. As if he wasn't arrogant, yet we hate Kobe for that same reason. As if he didn't jack it up, yet we hate Kobe and AI for those same reasons. Yes Mike shot 50%, but can we honestly say he made his teammates better?

I guess since he got them open shots because he got doubled team? Well, I guess.

But just know there will never be a fair argument when fighting against Team Prince Air. It will never happen.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

daiernchef made some good points. It is very disrespectful to Scottie whenever people make it seem like Jordan did all of this on his own. Which was most people's main argument against LeBron, Jordan did what LeBron couldn't do, win on his own. Jordan did what Kobe didn't do, win on his own (without Shaq/Pau). So I don't know why people keep insinuating that Jordan took a team full of scrubs to 6 rings.

He played with two former hall of famers.
He played for one of the best coaches on the pro level.

Jordan was great and I am not taking anything away from him, but I wish there was a way we could measure Jordan without his shoes and pop appeal being an influence because those things cloud many people's judgment when it comes to these discussions.

Jordan was great, but I just hate the God like pedestal he is placed on. As if nothing he did was insufficient. As if he wasn't known as a terrible teammate (just like Kobe), but we hate Kobe for that same reason. As if he wasn't arrogant, yet we hate Kobe for that same reason. As if he didn't jack it up, yet we hate Kobe and AI for those same reasons. Yes Mike shot 50%, but can we honestly say he made his teammates better?

I guess since he got them open shots because he got doubled team? Well, I guess.

But just know there will never be a fair argument when fighting against Team Prince Air. It will never happen.

 

[hankmoody]

Jordan averaged 8 assists a game in 1989...

No one in NBA history can replicate his 1991-1993 stretch. That is the pinnacle to me.

edit: Can someone make the argument for another player? I'd like to read it.

 

[hankmoody]

Jordan averaged 8 assists a game in 1989...

No one in NBA history can replicate his 1991-1993 stretch. That is the pinnacle to me.

edit: Can someone make the argument for another player? I'd like to read it.

 

[daiernchef]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

Originally Posted by daiernchef

Originally Posted by University of Nike


This is a terrible comparison. The Bulls had Pippen, and the Cavs best player is JJ Hickson.

ohhh so pippen gets respect because of how i compared them so now he's good, but when talking about Jordan Pippen was NOTHING without him, sorry it cant be both ways even though i know MJ lovers want it both ways... Facts are Facts, and give Pippen his RESPECT ALWAYS not just when its helpful to you..

Where have I said anything about Pippen? Don't put words in my mouth.

Pippen gets just as much credit for the Bulls winning as MJ himself. However:
5x MVP.
14x All-Star.
6x Finals MVP.
DPOY
9x All-NBA Defensive Team
10 scoring titles.
Career regular season scoring average of 30.1 points.
Career playoff scoring average of 33.4 points.
5,987 career playoff points.

Are INDIVIDUAL stats/accomplishments.

im just sayin in general when im talkin about jordan with someone they refuse to acknowledge pippen as having ANY talent and it was 1000 percent Jordan who carried pippen, some die hard Bulls fans out here didnt even remember the bulls made the playoffs when jordan left, they... blocked it out it seems because never would they admit Jordan had any help, but then when i say things like that last comment its right away "Pippen was a beast thats why" but only if its making Lebron look bad will they admit Pippen was a beast. ive been dealing with this my whole life, and like i said it boils down to what GREENburg said on MIKE AND MIKE " it doesnt matter if Lebron or anyone wins 12 str8 rings, i just couldnt hear myself say ANYONE is better then Jordan" and thats a typical MJ fan, NOONE will EVER be better...

  

 

[daiernchef]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

Originally Posted by daiernchef

Originally Posted by University of Nike


This is a terrible comparison. The Bulls had Pippen, and the Cavs best player is JJ Hickson.

ohhh so pippen gets respect because of how i compared them so now he's good, but when talking about Jordan Pippen was NOTHING without him, sorry it cant be both ways even though i know MJ lovers want it both ways... Facts are Facts, and give Pippen his RESPECT ALWAYS not just when its helpful to you..

Where have I said anything about Pippen? Don't put words in my mouth.

Pippen gets just as much credit for the Bulls winning as MJ himself. However:
5x MVP.
14x All-Star.
6x Finals MVP.
DPOY
9x All-NBA Defensive Team
10 scoring titles.
Career regular season scoring average of 30.1 points.
Career playoff scoring average of 33.4 points.
5,987 career playoff points.

Are INDIVIDUAL stats/accomplishments.

im just sayin in general when im talkin about jordan with someone they refuse to acknowledge pippen as having ANY talent and it was 1000 percent Jordan who carried pippen, some die hard Bulls fans out here didnt even remember the bulls made the playoffs when jordan left, they... blocked it out it seems because never would they admit Jordan had any help, but then when i say things like that last comment its right away "Pippen was a beast thats why" but only if its making Lebron look bad will they admit Pippen was a beast. ive been dealing with this my whole life, and like i said it boils down to what GREENburg said on MIKE AND MIKE " it doesnt matter if Lebron or anyone wins 12 str8 rings, i just couldnt hear myself say ANYONE is better then Jordan" and thats a typical MJ fan, NOONE will EVER be better...

  

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Damn Westbrook averaged 8 assists this season too.
Iverson averaged 8 assists in 2005.


Since when did we look at assist numbers as the end all for determining if someone makes their teammates better?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Damn Westbrook averaged 8 assists this season too.
Iverson averaged 8 assists in 2005.


Since when did we look at assist numbers as the end all for determining if someone makes their teammates better?