Is Lebron James still the best basketball player right now?

[hennessy beach]

im 35 and remember only the tail end of jordans career .
you being born in 90 means you didnt get to see mj other then maybe his stint with the wiz. you have no mj nostalgia to live in .

My first memory of the NBA was Jordan demolishing the Knicks. MJ was all I knew until he retired.

As 6/7 year old MJ was very impressionable for me. The wizard years were bs but they still count in the argument of bron > mj.

 

[lamekilla]

Avy check for anybody who thinks Lebron is on Jordan’s level. Michael Jordan’s ‘88 season is godly

 

[SplinterMatic319]

Avy check for anybody who thinks Lebron is on Jordan’s level. Michael Jordan’s ‘88 season is godly

87-90 combined is 34/6/6/3/1 on 52%

 

[lamekilla]

87-90 combined is 34/6/6/3/1 on 52%

“god disguised as Michael Jordan”

 

[whatscomplex]

The wizard years were bs but they still count in the argument of bron > mj.

how

 

[SplinterMatic319]

@ 5:16
announcer calls MJ the goat in the middle of 92 playoffs with only 1 championship

 

[whywesteppin]

why is MJ being discussed in this thread? are people arguing that MJ is still the best basketball player right now?

 

[Deleted member 37467]

@ 5:16
announcer calls MJ the goat in the middle of 92 playoffs with only 1 championship

Pretty sure the majority had him as the GOAT after the 1st 3peat.

LeBron needs 7 to be in the discussion, tho.

Funny how that works.

 

[EnvyTheGreen]

My first memory of the NBA was Jordan demolishing the Knicks. MJ was all I knew until he retired.

As 6/7 year old MJ was very impressionable for me. The wizard years were bs but they still count in the argument of bron > mj.

Yeah Jordan in ‘96 was amazing. Jordan from ‘88-93 was even better. If he didn’t retire, my goodness...

LeBron will have the stats, as he’s played straight out of HS and hasn’t missed games. Jordan missed a year to injury and retired twice.

But where were the Spurs and Mavs and Warriors of Jordan’s era? They were getting demolished. There are several all-time greats of the 90’s (a much more physical era) that went ringless because of Jordan.


LeBron is the best player since MJ, there’s no doubt. He’s STILL the best player at thirty-frigging-three. But he’s not better. Those who think he’s better either never saw, or just don’t remember. And that’s not a knock on LeBron, he’s amazing. Jordan is the GOAT though. He didn’t redefine the game, he made it.

 

[Deleted member 37467]

But where were the Spurs and Mavs and Warriors of Jordan’s era? They were getting demolished.

No, they didn't exist.

Jordan never had to face a team as good as the Spurs or Warriors teams LBJ faced.

Matter of fact, you might be able to throw that 2012 OKC team in there, too.

You know, the OKC team that was favored to win against the "stacked" Heat that lost in 5 games.

 

[EnvyTheGreen]

No, they didn't exist.

Jordan never had to face a team as good as the Spurs or Warriors teams LBJ faced.

Matter of fact, you might be able to throw that 2012 OKC team in there, too.

You know, the OKC team that was favored to win against the "stacked" Heat that lost in 5 games.

That’s simply not true. None of those teams were special, and it sounds like you didn’t watch any of them.

The Warriors of the last two seasons were. The first matchup, eh.

When you look at the Jazz, the Sonics, the Lakers, and even the Suns (ya’ll prob don’t even know KJ!) and those Blazers were no joke also.... you can’t say Jordan didn’t go at better comp with a straight face. And he beat them all.

OKC and Dallas get WASHED by any of those teams. I’ll give Pop the benefit of the doubt but his last two finals teams prob get the biz too (that ‘07 team was on point). I honestly don’t even buy the Warriors in a more physical era. Love that Draymond thinks he’s a tough guy, would see him crying in the ‘80’s and ‘90’s though.

 

[Retroballer]

Stop over glamorizing the “physical” 90’s basketball. Those teams wouldnt be able to guard the space and pace play today like everybody thinks.
And to say Lebron isn’t at MJs level is just closed minded.

 

[tekthemaestro]

Ok well I cannot speak on what is being said in the NBA thread. But in this thread, there you are acting like a ton of people are calling out Bron for his play. That couldnt be further from the truth. Any sort of recent negative post was said in the context of Brons legacy and how he compares to past greats. People are not downplaying what he is doing in these playoffs.

The context of the plumbers comment was about who he has played the past 8 years in route to the Finals. Has zero to do with how he is playing right now.

thats facts. everyone acknowledges lebron is nice and has the juice. but the conversation shifted to is the goat. so thats whats being discussed.

Stop over glamorizing the “physical” 90’s basketball. Those teams wouldnt be able to guard the space and pace play today like everybody thinks.
And to say Lebron isn’t at MJs level is just closed minded.

you realize that zone which is allowed now actually allows players to sag off their man right? meaning you have it backwards. "those teams wouldnt be able to guard the space and pace" yes they would. because being forced to play man to man all game is a lot more tiresome and difficult than a rotating zone. so its not hard to imagine if you told those players hey, play LESS intense defense that they would gladly do it and speed up the pace.





on topic. is he the best player in the league? in what way? most COMPLETE player? thats a debatable opinion i guess. Is he the best in any category though? no. so imo... its hard to call a jack of all trades the best of any sport. because the list of better scorers puts at least 4 people in front of him. when it comes to passing, this year hes looking for more flashy passes but still has multiple players averaging more assists than him. not to mention ben simmons is on his heels in his first year. 3pt? rebounds? free throw? steals? blocks? etc etc etc. hes not even close in those categories. so .... its hard to make that call for me.

 

[Deleted member 37467]

That’s simply not true. None of those teams were special, and it sounds like you didn’t watch any of them.

LOL.

 

[junglejim]

LOL.

I mean, its not like those Spurs teams werent any more special than the Spurs teams in 2000-2010. Tim Duncan, Manu, and Parker were all on their last legs in those finals.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

https://t.co/ixAe8f9D9Q

This article is probably the correct answer on the whole Jordan-Lebron debate.

For one play off series you probably want 90-91 Jordan over anyone in history.


For like a 15-20 year stretch you want Lebron.

 

[junglejim]

https://t.co/ixAe8f9D9Q

This article is probably the correct answer on the whole Jordan-Lebron debate.

For one play off series you probably want 90-91 Jordan over anyone in history.


For like a 15-20 year stretch you want Lebron.

I stopped reading when I saw some guy come up with his own statistic of how to measure championships other than those that were actually won. This article is ******ed.

I have a hard time trusting a company's narrative when their existence literally depends on the narrative that they are pushing.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Honestly so much of this debate depends on the rule set we're playing with.


No 3 point line and small lane?
Give me a center who dominates the paint; Russel, Shaq or Wilt.

No 3 point line and expanded lane?
Give me a dude who can be hyper efficient with a wide lane; Kareem.

3 point line + Hand checking + no illegal defense?
Give the greatest I isolation scorer ever; Jordan.

3 point line + no hand checking + more complex defensive schemes? Give me basketball super computer; Lebron James.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I stopped reading when I saw some guy come up with his own statistic of how to measure championships other than those that were actually won. This article is ******ed.

math hard for some, i get it, i can totally empathize.

 

[junglejim]

math hard for some, i get it, i can totally empathize.

Statistics are great and for the most part you can skew them however you would like to fit your agenda. My point is, ESPN greatly benefits by this narrative and are a dying star without it.

If you can tell me exactly how he calculated it, ill shut up......

At this point they are literally making up stats to counter argue championships won. Thats called bias.

 

[Lovetohate3000]

I stopped reading when I saw some guy come up with his own statistic of how to measure championships other than those that were actually won. This article is ******ed.

I have a hard time trusting a company's narrative when their existence literally depends on the narrative that they are pushing.

article is ridiculous. Estimated championships. Lol I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that.

 

[junglejim]

article is ridiculous. Estimated championships. Lol I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that.

"The result was championships added, which uses Basketball-Reference.com's win shares to estimate how much a player added to his team's chances of walking away with the title that season based on regular-season and playoff performance."

or you could just use titles won. Seems like a less subjective measure.

"Because of the way championships added rewards only quality seasons, not mere accumulation of statistics, Jordan added almost nothing to his total by returning with the Washington Wizards at age 38. "

We just decided not to use this season because of quality reasons.

"That leaves playoff value as James' strongest argument. His 2.24 championships added in the playoffs are more than those of Jordan (2.05) and everyone else in league history. That might be tough to square with Jordan's six championships to James' three, and James' teams going 3-5 in the NBA Finals, but James comes out ahead for a couple of reasons."

Jordan was better in the regular season, so lets just focus this statistically on the playoffs.

"The respective camps in the Jordan-LeBron debate reach their most frenzied pitch when they discuss which player had a harder time dominating in his era. To hear Jordan's supporters tell it, defenders were allowed open fisticuffs to prevent him from getting to the basket. Meanwhile, James' defenders would have you believe that Jordan was beating five guys from the Y to win his championships.

There is a kernel of truth in both arguments"

You cant be serious with this ****.

"Because Jordan and James weren't separated by much time, the difference isn't as dramatic as with Mikan. Yet James' leagues still rate on average as 12 percent better than Jordan's, which makes sense given the influx of international talent in that span. I estimate the pool of talent from which the NBA draws players has grown by 28 percent since 2003, while the league has added just one team."

Again, your article draws on statistical "proof" yet provides no basis as to how this was calculated. Literally just states it as fact.

This has maybe been the most garbage article I think ive ever read.

 

[sorkoram]

Yeah and it's not even close.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

"The result was championships added, which uses Basketball-Reference.com's win shares to estimate how much a player added to his team's chances of walking away with the title that season based on regular-season and playoff performance."

or you could just use titles won. Seems like a less subjective measure.

"Because of the way championships added rewards only quality seasons, not mere accumulation of statistics, Jordan added almost nothing to his total by returning with the Washington Wizards at age 38. "

We just decided not to use this season because of quality reasons.

"That leaves playoff value as James' strongest argument. His 2.24 championships added in the playoffs are more than those of Jordan (2.05) and everyone else in league history. That might be tough to square with Jordan's six championships to James' three, and James' teams going 3-5 in the NBA Finals, but James comes out ahead for a couple of reasons."

Jordan was better in the regular season, so lets just focus this statistically on the playoffs.

"The respective camps in the Jordan-LeBron debate reach their most frenzied pitch when they discuss which player had a harder time dominating in his era. To hear Jordan's supporters tell it, defenders were allowed open fisticuffs to prevent him from getting to the basket. Meanwhile, James' defenders would have you believe that Jordan was beating five guys from the Y to win his championships.

There is a kernel of truth in both arguments"

You cant be serious with this ****.

"Because Jordan and James weren't separated by much time, the difference isn't as dramatic as with Mikan. Yet James' leagues still rate on average as 12 percent better than Jordan's, which makes sense given the influx of international talent in that span. I estimate the pool of talent from which the NBA draws players has grown by 28 percent since 2003, while the league has added just one team."

Again, your article draws on statistical "proof" yet provides no basis as to how this was calculated. Literally just states it as fact.

This has maybe been the most garbage article I think ive ever read.

math is hard, the meaning of subjective is hard, reading comprehension is hard, all these things are hard and beyond my ability to teach you.

so Take the information or don't im not going to sit around and argue with reactionary jordan fanatics.

 

[Lovetohate3000]

My first memory of the NBA was Jordan demolishing the Knicks. MJ was all I knew until he retired.

As 6/7 year old MJ was very impressionable for me. The wizard years were bs but they still count in the argument of bron > mj.

6 -7 years old can't even really comprehend whats going on. I have 7 year old daughters that have played ball since they were 5 and they have no idea what's going and can't really comprehend the game.
I didnt fully understand what I was watching till I was in my teens .
Which is why you are more nostalgic towards LeBron whether you realize it or not.

I don't even like jordan or LeBron. That's Besides the point.