Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

[monstar]

so?

Hamas killed a bunch of non Israeli's, you living on stolen land my guy,
if they rape your mom, and kill your children I hope you take it in stride.


cmon.

you could hop on a flight to the motherland anytime,
so you only belive in justice when theres a gun pointed at you?

again this is just easy to say,
natives want there land back, there's a whole "landback" movement.

but yet you stay. we can speak on injustice but we also need to be realistic and understand things from both sides.

They aren't leaving, if you were them you wouldn't leave either.
I

We really gon sit here and act like none of this happened to African Americans in this country for hundreds of years? Our ancestors many times had to take it in stride when with no world support asking for reparations or for land to be carved out just for us.

This was a nasty statement my guy do better!

 

[degenerate423]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

We really gon sit here and act like none of this happened to African Americans in this country for hundreds of years? Our ancestors many times had to take it in stride when with no world support asking for reparations or for land to be carved out just for us.

This was a nasty statement my guy do better!

What on earth are you talking about?

if by "taking in stride" you mean "freeing themselves from slavery and ending government sanctioned white supremacy. "
personally I think it's a little belittling to the struggle and success of african american social progress to call it "taking it in stride."

i think they historically did a whole lot more than that.

 

[htg designs]

Whats the update on the hostages hamas initially took on friday?

I have friends in Israel who said executions began tuesday and shared videos are rampant.

 

[Nujavez]

 

[monstar]

What on earth are you talking about?

if by "taking in stride" you mean "freeing themselves from slavery and ending government sanctioned white supremacy. "
personally I think it's a little belittling to the struggle and success of african american social progress to call it "taking it in stride."

i think they historically did a whole lot more than that.

The generations it happened too, that did not live to see the change had to take rape murder, breaking of families in stride with no progress. That same Progress took generations for that to theoretically end but you could argue it still happens today in the rural south today in different ways

Please don’t speak on something you clearly don’t understand . I think your initial comment was belittling

You chose the phrase take it in stride no one else.

 

[Coromanti]

Plasticized?

If it’s plasticized that means it sticks. So if you get hit by the residue it’ll stick and burn through your skin. I’ve seen footage of the aftermath. Gruesome is putting it nicely.

 

[gry60]

Israel-Hamas War Israel Tells Northern Gaza Residents to Evacuate South​

“Civilians of Gaza City, evacuate south for your own safety and the safety of your families,” the military said. The U.N. said the order to move about 1.1 million people living there to the southern half of the territory would lead to “devastating humanitarian consequences.”

 

[executive76]

 

[degenerate423]

Plasticized?

If it’s plasticized that means it sticks. So if you get hit by the residue it’ll stick and burn through your skin. I’ve seen footage of the aftermath. Gruesome is putting it nicely.

Not sure. Here’s a Q&A of what the Human Rights Watch knows about Israel’s use of it, but they don’t say if it’s plasticized.

 

[Belgium]

I'm not white. I'm not concerned about that. Realistically speaking that probably wouldn't even be a thought for them but I don't speak for them.

Hypothetically speaking I'm not fighting for this land. I'd just leave before it got to that or fight may way out if it came to it.

Again, they are well within their right to take their land back from their oppressors. I'm well within my right to protect myself and my family as I leave. Hypothetically speaking.

Me not being in Africa is of no fault of my own. Because I am in America it does not mean I will be silent about things that are wrong.

I am the same way offline. I don't care how a person feels as nobody cares about how ppl like me feel.

I asked you roughly this same hypothetical. Keyword: HYPOTHETICAL.
It's a simple question.

Native Americans are incredibly incredibly peaceful folks given their treatment throughout history and the losses they endure, but let's hypothetically say a radical Native American terrorist group along the lines of Hamas emerges.
In this hypothetical scenario, someone in your family gets bombed to pieces, brutally killed and/or raped. Because guess what, terrorist groups like Hamas are rather indiscriminate with their victims.

In this hypothetical, you'd still be cheering on the ones responsible for killing your family as long as the terrorists did it as part of attempting to retake the land that should be rightfully theirs?

It's all fun and games to say some **** like what's underlined in bold below, from behind the safety of a computer screen.
You're the one who said it but all I'm hearing from you since being confronted with a hypothetical that forces you to defend that position, all I'm hearing is quack quack. Ducking.

Native Americans should take their land back by any means necessary. I don't care how comfortable I am on this land, it is stolen. Wrong is wrong.

As a black person I don't understand how any of us can say otherwise. no amount of brainwashing and being forced to assimilate as much as possible can change that wrong.

Nobody should expect them to live happily under their oppressors. Nobody.

Also just to be clear, these are very different points and not the same whatsoever.
"Nobody should expect them to live happily under their oppressors. Nobody." is a good point, and I agree with this statement.
"I don't care how comfortable I am on this land, it is stolen. Wrong is wrong." is also a good point, and I likewise agree that it is stolen land and wrong is wrong.
THIS "Native Americans should take their land back by any means necessary." is a completely different point, and the reason you're ducking osh kosh bosh and my practically identical hypothetical is because you know the ludicrous defense you'll have to make to defend that statement. So instead you sidestep it completely to avoid answering a rather straightforward question.

 

[getback]

She’s even got the Starbucks to complete the fit

 

[Coromanti]

Interesting look into some of the back channel politicking.

 

[monstar]

I asked you roughly this same hypothetical. Keyword: HYPOTHETICAL.
It's a simple question.

Native Americans are incredibly incredibly peaceful folks given their treatment throughout history and the losses they endure, but let's hypothetically say a radical Native American terrorist group along the lines of Hamas emerges.
In this hypothetical scenario, someone in your family gets bombed to pieces, brutally killed and/or raped. Because guess what, terrorist groups like Hamas are rather indiscriminate with their victims.

In this hypothetical, you'd still be cheering on the ones responsible for killing your family as long as the terrorists did it as part of attempting to retake the land that should be rightfully theirs?

It's all fun and games to say some **** like what's underlined in bold below, from behind the safety of a computer screen.
You're the one who said it but all I'm hearing from you since being confronted with a hypothetical that forces you to defend that position, all I'm hearing is quack quack. Ducking.


Also just to be clear, these are very different points and not the same whatsoever.
"Nobody should expect them to live happily under their oppressors. Nobody." is a good point, and I agree with this statement.
"I don't care how comfortable I am on this land, it is stolen. Wrong is wrong." is also a good point, and I likewise agree that it is stolen land and wrong is wrong.
THIS "Native Americans should take their land back by any means necessary." is a completely different point, and the reason you're ducking osh kosh bosh and my practically identical hypothetical is because you know the ludicrous defense you'll have to make to defend that statement. So instead you sidestep it completely to avoid answering a rather straightforward question.

I’m not touching the Native American should take there land back by any mean necessary bc white supremacy has ruled this land since colonialisation.

All I’ll say is y’all keep throwing out hypothetical like it ain’t actually happen throughout the history of north and South America. The group in power was a terrorost group who just so happens to still be in power today.

The Difference is it was multiple European countries leading this across the continent not just the US. Canada and Central America also dealt with this.

The KKK is a terrorist group let’s not forget that who isn’t Native American but white

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I asked you roughly this same hypothetical. Keyword: HYPOTHETICAL.
It's a simple question.

Native Americans are incredibly incredibly peaceful folks given their treatment throughout history and the losses they endure, but let's hypothetically say a radical Native American terrorist group along the lines of Hamas emerges.
In this hypothetical scenario, someone in your family gets bombed to pieces, brutally killed and/or raped. Because guess what, terrorist groups like Hamas are rather indiscriminate with their victims.

In this hypothetical, you'd still be cheering on the ones responsible for killing your family as long as the terrorists did it as part of attempting to retake the land that should be rightfully theirs?

It's all fun and games to say some **** like what's underlined in bold below, from behind the safety of a computer screen.
You're the one who said it but all I'm hearing from you since being confronted with a hypothetical that forces you to defend that position, all I'm hearing is quack quack. Ducking.


Also just to be clear, these are very different points and not the same whatsoever.
"Nobody should expect them to live happily under their oppressors. Nobody." is a good point, and I agree with this statement.
"I don't care how comfortable I am on this land, it is stolen. Wrong is wrong." is also a good point, and I likewise agree that it is stolen land and wrong is wrong.
THIS "Native Americans should take their land back by any means necessary." is a completely different point, and the reason you're ducking osh kosh bosh and my practically identical hypothetical is because you know the ludicrous defense you'll have to make to defend that statement. So instead you sidestep it completely to avoid answering a rather straightforward question.

I think whenever revenge is taking place, it's hard to determine how civil/equal/fair the retaliation should be compared to the initial offense.

So to police the fairness of said revenge is just a tricky conversation to even have.

That's all I will say in general.

 

[gry60]

I think whenever revenge is taking place, it's hard to determine of civil/equal/fair the retaliation should be compared to the initial offense.

So to police the fairness of said revenge is just a tricky conversation to even have.

That's all I will say in general.

It's not tricky according to international law and the rules of war (Geneva).

Of course, the more powerful you are, the more you treat international law as a suggestion because nobody but yourself has the power of restraint.

The thing about the above is that every time a powerful nation engages in a conflict and neglects its duty to exercise restraint, this becomes an opportunity for other nations to justify their own race to acquire more weapons, and every geopolitical miscalculation increases the risk of a regional/global conflict. That was the feedback loop at the origin of WWI that organizations like the Society of Nations, and now the UN, were created to avoid.

And, as Coromanti pointed out, it looks like we're going back to square 1.

 

[me love nutella]

I asked you roughly this same hypothetical. Keyword: HYPOTHETICAL.
It's a simple question.

Native Americans are incredibly incredibly peaceful folks given their treatment throughout history and the losses they endure, but let's hypothetically say a radical Native American terrorist group along the lines of Hamas emerges.
In this hypothetical scenario, someone in your family gets bombed to pieces, brutally killed and/or raped. Because guess what, terrorist groups like Hamas are rather indiscriminate with their victims.

In this hypothetical, you'd still be cheering on the ones responsible for killing your family as long as the terrorists did it as part of attempting to retake the land that should be rightfully theirs?

It's all fun and games to say some **** like what's underlined in bold below, from behind the safety of a computer screen.
You're the one who said it but all I'm hearing from you since being confronted with a hypothetical that forces you to defend that position, all I'm hearing is quack quack. Ducking.


Also just to be clear, these are very different points and not the same whatsoever.
"Nobody should expect them to live happily under their oppressors. Nobody." is a good point, and I agree with this statement.
"I don't care how comfortable I am on this land, it is stolen. Wrong is wrong." is also a good point, and I likewise agree that it is stolen land and wrong is wrong.
THIS "Native Americans should take their land back by any means necessary." is a completely different point, and the reason you're ducking osh kosh bosh and my practically identical hypothetical is because you know the ludicrous defense you'll have to make to defend that statement. So instead you sidestep it completely to avoid answering a rather straightforward question.

Uhhhhhh....You are asking the wrong questions my dude.

The occupation is inherently violent. It is the colonial vioence that begets colonized violence. There is not one anti-colonial struggle in the world that has not taken up violence armed resistance to fight back to break free from the violence of their colonizers.

You are asking and thinking the wrong moral equivalence. Your colonial mindset has you so conditioned (I do not care if you're not white - you surely are upholding white colonial violence and supremacy as some of us non-white folks can internalize it), that you cannot think logically on how this is the natural state of an inherent violent occupation and settler-colonial state.

What do you expect from men that live in a concentration camp, under brutal siege, lack of basic human rights, no food or water security, and have had their families wiped out and killed for generations now. They protest peacefully and mostly exercise non-violent means, only to be shot and killed for it. They are up against the most advanced and militarized aggression, violence and superpower in the region. You really think there will be no violence back?

You are just asking for the quiet submission of the oppressed and occupied to the violence of their oppressors and occupiers.

The NERVE, because as they say, as a Gazan, you are born dead. Since the last few wars there is a suicide epidemic there. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/18/a-suicide-in-gaza

Since Gazans are worth dead, all they have is to use their bodies to tell the world, look at us, look what is happening, look at what they are doing to us, look at where your tax dollars are going.

You are REALLY asking why these men go this route in asymmetrical warfare to fight their pccupation, ethnic cleansing and genocide? You are romanticizing some B.S. anti-colonial struggle and projecting your own morality superiority complex because it rattles you that as a man you would resort to what they do as well if you were living in the longest occupation and inhumane concentration camp.

Why are you not asking why as the occupiers and oppressors (include the racist violent settlers and extremists) they are resorting to violence on the oppressed and occupied.

But, you want to take your own internal racism and conditioned colonial mindset on another peoples that have suffered the gravest and inhumane human rights violations in our times. You just want their QUIET SUBMISSION to colonial violence and oppression. I think you need to question your morality and judgments.

 

[me love nutella]

That is my point. Palestinians are an oppressed people. Not only by isreal, but by their own government. Hamas isn’t the answer.

Oh here comes another expert analyst on the conflict that knows nothing, telling us nothing. Hamas is not a government first off. They are a poltical and militant organization and resistance group governing Gaza, not an official government entity with sovereign rule.

Let me educate you that this resistance is not only by Hamas but other groups including the Communist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Front and the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (non religious and secular resistance).

If you actually picked up a book, and educated yourself on history of armed resistance, you will see patterns of an alliance from all political ideologies joining to fight the common cause of liberation despite their differences.

You are not the one to decide who will govern another people.

Also, ya'll are projecting because Israel is an ethno-state based on establishing a government to a religious group above others and maintains Jewish supremacy over non Jews and has been inflicting genocide and ethnic cleansing of non Jews. But Hamas that is a resistance group are the main problem, not the religious fanatics ruling Israel?

Ya'll always project and select which fanatics you want to arm, support, govern over others as long as it protects your colonial conquests and domination.

Some of you here have very twisted and mental gymnastics going on to protect your cognitive dissonance.

 

[debso]

I asked you roughly this same hypothetical. Keyword: HYPOTHETICAL.
It's a simple question.

Native Americans are incredibly incredibly peaceful folks given their treatment throughout history and the losses they endure, but let's hypothetically say a radical Native American terrorist group along the lines of Hamas emerges.
In this hypothetical scenario, someone in your family gets bombed to pieces, brutally killed and/or raped. Because guess what, terrorist groups like Hamas are rather indiscriminate with their victims.

In this hypothetical, you'd still be cheering on the ones responsible for killing your family as long as the terrorists did it as part of attempting to retake the land that should be rightfully theirs?

It's all fun and games to say some **** like what's underlined in bold below, from behind the safety of a computer screen.
You're the one who said it but all I'm hearing from you since being confronted with a hypothetical that forces you to defend that position, all I'm hearing is quack quack. Ducking.


Also just to be clear, these are very different points and not the same whatsoever.
"Nobody should expect them to live happily under their oppressors. Nobody." is a good point, and I agree with this statement.
"I don't care how comfortable I am on this land, it is stolen. Wrong is wrong." is also a good point, and I likewise agree that it is stolen land and wrong is wrong.
THIS "Native Americans should take their land back by any means necessary." is a completely different point, and the reason you're ducking osh kosh bosh and my practically identical hypothetical is because you know the ludicrous defense you'll have to make to defend that statement. So instead you sidestep it completely to avoid answering a rather straightforward question.

You are neither black AFAIK nor from the United States so I don't expect you to relate nor do I expect you to give a **** about how black ppl feel.
So I won't waste too much of my time explaining anything related to the oppression of black ppl, white supremacy. Etc.

You and the other dude are smoking very potent fentanyl if you think I'm both sides-ing this.

For the umpteenth time, this is stolen land. This is an illegitimate govt with a system of white supremacy that controls this stolen land. The blatant wall to wall propaganda all over TV regarding israel/palestine right now should be an obvious sign of that for even the lilliest of white ppl far removed from the weight of what everyone else has to deal with but sadly it's not.

I cannot change the heart or mind nor would I want to of a Native American that wants to take back their land. They should want to. They should do it IMO however they can. Its their right and it's their land.

This may not be a realistic viewpoint to YOU but you are not ME.

Violence happens, it is what it is as it was when violence happened and happens to us. Obviously I would put my family in the best position possible to be able to leave safely. I'm not fighting a native american for their land. I would never do that.
That doesn't equate to me letting my family get killed or raped in a hypothetical situation that could only come from a white person.

Lol as if they're coming after black ppl for us being forced here. I wonder why that was the first thought instead of us teaming up against our oppressors and them getting their land back and us leaving or whatever.

Anyway, I don't duck smoke. I confront it and deal with it in real time. I feel like mfers are projecting based on how they feel and what they would or wouldn't do. I'm me. I'm doing exactly what I said in that weirdo scenario thrown at me.

No amount of twisting will blur my vision. I know what the root of this **** is.

Now going back to actual real life, nobody should expect Palestinians to deal with living in an apartheid state.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Uhhhhhh....You are asking the wrong questions my dude.

The occupation is inherently violent. It is the colonial vioence that begets colonized violence. There is not one anti-colonial struggle in the world that has not taken up violence armed resistance to fight back to break free from the violence of their colonizers.

You are asking and thinking the wrong moral equivalence. Your colonial mindset has you so conditioned (I do not care if you're not white - you surely are upholding white colonial violence and supremacy as some of us non-white folks can internalize it), that you cannot think logically on how this is the natural state of an inherent violent occupation and settler-colonial state.

What do you expect from men that live in a concentration camp, under brutal siege, lack of basic human rights, no food or water security, and have had their families wiped out and killed for generations now. They protest peacefully and mostly exercise non-violent means, only to be shot and killed for it. They are up against the most advanced and militarized aggression, violence and superpower in the region. You really think there will be no violence back?

You are just asking for the quiet submission of the oppressed and occupied to the violence of their oppressors and occupiers.

The NERVE, because as they say, as a Gazan, you are born dead. Since the last few wars there is a suicide epidemic there. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/18/a-suicide-in-gaza

Since Gazans are worth dead, all they have is to use their bodies to tell the world, look at us, look what is happening, look at what they are doing to us, look at where your tax dollars are going.

You are REALLY asking why these men go this route in asymmetrical warfare to fight their pccupation, ethnic cleansing and genocide? You are romanticizing some B.S. anti-colonial struggle and projecting your own morality superiority complex because it rattles you that as a man you would resort to what they do as well if you were living in the longest occupation and inhumane concentration camp.

Why are you not asking why as the occupiers and oppressors (include the racist violent settlers and extremists) they are resorting to violence on the oppressed and occupied.

But, you want to take your own internal racism and conditioned colonial mindset on another peoples that have suffered the gravest and inhumane human rights violations in our times. You just want their QUIET SUBMISSION to colonial violence and oppression. I think you need to question your morality and judgments.

Not to, "whataboutism" the situation but plenty of NTers used this same logic whenever black people haven't peacefully protested when fighting this racist country's police force. So he isn't alone with this line of thinking.

Thanks for setting it straight though.

 

[heelsandeers]

NYT:

Spoiler

As anticipation of an imminent Israeli ground invasion grew, some Gaza residents said they feared this could end up being the start of another permanent mass displacement like the one in 1948, when more than 700,000 Palestinians either fled or were expelled from their homes in present-day Israel during the war surrounding the nation’s establishment. But it was too soon to tell.

“As I am packing my things I am wondering, is this really another nakba? I am taking my house key and thinking, will I ever return to my home, will I ever see my home again?” said Dr. Arwa El-Rayes, 56, a doctor of internal medicine, speaking in the last moments before she fled her childhood home in Gaza City in the north, the main city in the territory. The nakba, which means catastrophe, is how Palestinians refer to the displacement of 1948.

The Israeli military says that it is urging the more than one million residents of northern Gaza to move to the southern half of the enclave for their own safety, even as residents said airstrikes on the south continued. But there has been no suggestion that they should leave the territory or that they will not be allowed to return to their homes after the fighting.

The majority of Gaza’s population, some 1.7 million of the 2.1 million residents, are among those who were forced to leave their homes in 1948, or their descendants. In 1948, many Palestinians were told they would be allowed to return to their homes after a few days or weeks. Many took with them just a few belongings and the keys to their front doors. But they were never allowed to return.

The Gaza Strip has been under intense airstrikes for days, in an onslaught unleashed after Hamas, the group that controls Gaza, launched a surprise attack on southern Israel over the weekend that killed more than 1,300 people — including civilians and soldiers.

Israeli airstrikes have killed more than 1,500 people in Gaza since then, according to the territory’s health ministry.

 

[me love nutella]

Not to, "whataboutism" the situation but plenty of NTers used this same logic whenever black people haven't peacefully protested when fighting this racist country's police force. So he isn't alone with this line of thinking.

Thanks for setting it straight though.

It is because they legalize their violence. They have set up institutions and turned it into legalized forms of colonial and oppressive violence. So they have the government, police and military force continuing the subjugation via a spectrum of violence, daily.

But then these white folks and their colonial sympathizers (the conditioned BIPOC and sell-outs) try to tell us how to resist their violent oppression.

They just don't want a disruption to the status quo of upholding the white man colonial domination on the world and rely on our quiet submission. The Palestinian resistance against the Western/Euro colonial child Israel scares them to death. Once it is free, it'll break up the systems and have a domino effect on shattering the global euro-centric/western Christian/white supremacy domination.

That's why Palestinian liberation is liberation for all.

 

[getback]

The videos of all the little Palestinian babies dead and injured are absolutely heartbreaking and maddening. No words can really convey how sick this whole thing is.

 

[ccastro02]

Oh here comes another expert analyst on the conflict that knows nothing, telling us nothing. Hamas is not a government first off. They are a poltical and militant organization and resistance group governing Gaza, not an official government entity with sovereign rule.

Let me educate you that this resistance is not only by Hamas but other groups including the Communist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine Front and the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (non religious and secular resistance).

If you actually picked up a book, and educated yourself on history of armed resistance, you will see patterns of an alliance from all political ideologies joining to fight the common cause of liberation despite their differences.

You are not the one to decide who will govern another people.

Also, ya'll are projecting because Israel is an ethno-state based on establishing a government to a religious group above others and maintains Jewish supremacy over non Jews and has been inflicting genocide and ethnic cleansing of non Jews. But Hamas that is a resistance group are the main problem, not the religious fanatics ruling Israel?

Ya'll always project and select which fanatics you want to arm, support, govern over others as long as it protects your colonial conquests and domination.

Some of you here have very twisted and mental gymnastics going on to protect your cognitive dissonance.

Condensing tone aside, I agree with most of what you said. Still doesn’t negate the fact that Hamas is also oppressing their own people.

 

[lovehateself]

That is my point. Palestinians are an oppressed people. Not only by isreal, but by their own government. Hamas isn’t the answer.

pretty sure a lot of palestinians would agree
Hamas just has bigger sticks to fight with thanks to Iran..and to an extent the US

So when Hamas gets obliterated in the coming weeks or months, will the Palestinian people be able to choose a new governing body to represent them? How do they even more forward from this? This **** is just depressing as hell.

they have the PLO, but Hamas aint going anywhere burv
and they wont be given the chance to govern themselves....yall know this