Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

[me love nutella]

pretty sure a lot of palestinians would agree
Hamas just has bigger sticks to fight with thanks to Iran..and to an extent the US

they have the PLO, but Hamas aint going anywhere burv
and they wont be given the chance to govern themselves....yall know this

The PLO which is now the PA has been bought up by Israel. PA is not pushing for the Palestinian statehood, and are now seen as collaborators to Israsel to preserve Israeli nationhood.

That's why Hamas is seen as the only viable resistance movement to push for Palestinian statehood. Their attack/retaliation was basically telling Israel they can't contain Hamas, can't keep killing and encroaching Palestinians in an occupation without costs to them. Also they're not going to submit to get bought up like the PA aka PLO.

Palestinian resistance is resilient and keeps transforming throughout its perseverance and endurance for 75 years. That's what gets Israel so pissed off they can't finish off the 'Palestinian problem'.

Even if they obliterated Hamas, there's a strong alliance of Palestinian armed resistance from religious, secular and socialist political spectrums/ideologies. It'll transform in another shape or form.

 

[trynafeelmink]

Respect to those who really stand on principle & don't wanna be lumped in with the cowards involved in tyranny out here masking it as Judaism

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Uhhhhhh....You are asking the wrong questions my dude.

The occupation is inherently violent. It is the colonial vioence that begets colonized violence. There is not one anti-colonial struggle in the world that has not taken up violence armed resistance to fight back to break free from the violence of their colonizers.

Who said it wasn't violent? You are just making up claims to get on a high horse about.

You are asking and thinking the wrong moral equivalence. Your colonial mindset has you so conditioned (I do not care if you're not white - you surely are upholding white colonial violence and supremacy as some of us non-white folks can internalize it), that you cannot think logically on how this is the natural state of an inherent violent occupation and settler-colonial state.

It's funny to accuse someone of not thinking logically. But then you just throw out a bunch of academic buzzwords and character smears,
Thinking that's going to win an argument.
It's not.

What do you expect from men that live in a concentration camp, under brutal siege, lack of basic human rights, no food or water security, and have had their families wiped out and killed for generations now. They protest peacefully and mostly exercise non-violent means, only to be shot and killed for it. They are up against the most advanced and militarized aggression, violence and superpower in the region. You really think there will be no violence back?

Who said there will be no violence back? Who said they don't understand why Palestinians support or end up in Hamas?

No one made these claims, but you are so desperate to get on a high horse you are fighting with ghosts.

His point with that hypothetical, is just how one can understand why Palestinians get radicalized,

If you use just a drop of empathy in the other direction, it's easy to see how Israeli's also get radicalized. That's why the problem is intractable.

You are just asking for the quiet submission of the oppressed and occupied to the violence of their oppressors and occupiers.

Nobody asked for this.

e NERVE, because as they say, as a Gazan, you are born dead. Since the last few wars there is a suicide epidemic there. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/18/a-suicide-in-gazaSince Gazans are worth dead, all they have is to use their bodies to tell the world, look at us, look what is happening, look at what they are doing to us, look at where your tax dollars are going.

Nobody had any nerve.

You are REALLY asking why these men go this route in asymmetrical warfare to fight their pccupation, ethnic cleansing and genocide? You are romanticizing some B.S. anti-colonial struggle and projecting your own morality superiority complex because it rattles you that as a man you would resort to what they do as well if you were living in the longest occupation and inhumane concentration camp.

Nobody asked that.

Why are you not asking why as the occupiers and oppressors (include the racist violent settlers and extremists) they are resorting to violence on the oppressed and occupied.

His hypothetical illustrated why.

But, you want to take your own internal racism and conditioned colonial mindset on another peoples that have suffered the gravest and inhumane human rights violations in our times. You just want their QUIET SUBMISSION to colonial violence and oppression. I think you need to question your morality and judgments

This post was incredible irrational and unbelievably sanctimonious response to bunch of claims that nobody made.

Spraying buzzwords and character smears aren't
going to make your argument convincing to anyone who doesn't already agree.

 

[Upptempo]

Respect to those who really stand on principle & don't wanna be lumped in with the cowards involved in tyranny out here masking it as Judaism

I've seen tons of Orthodox Jewish people standing against Israel. The media wants the narrative to be Israel = Represents all Jewish people and Palestine = Represents Hamas when neither of those is true. It's the same way the media portrays that Liberal = You support Antifa and Conservative = You support the Proud Boys

 

[me love nutella]

Who said it wasn't violent? You are just making up claims to get on a high horse about.




It's funny to accuse someone of not thinking logically. But then you just throw out a bunch of academic buzzwords and character smears,
Thinking that's going to win an argument.
It's not.




Who said there will be no violence back? Who said they don't understand why Palestinians support or end up in Hamas?

No one made these claims, but you are so desperate to get on a high horse you are fighting with ghosts.

His point with that hypothetical, is just how one can understand why Palestinians get radicalized,

If you use just a drop of empathy in the other direction, it's easy to see how Israeli's also get radicalized. That's why the problem is intractable.



Nobody asked for this.





Nobody had any nerve.



Nobody asked that.



His hypothetical illustrated why.



This post was incredible irrational and unbelievably sanctimonious response to bunch of claims that nobody made.

Spraying buzzwords and character smears aren't
going to make your argument convincing to anyone who doesn't already agree.

To answer his question though in this hypothetical, who is CHEERING the ones responsible for killing his family as long as the terorrist did it as attempts to take back land?

NO ONE IS CHEERING that when it comes to Hamas. But if there is cheering, there is also plenty of that on the other side for 75 years who cheer killing of Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians for 75+ years. Not only regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but other Arab-Middle Eastern conflicts.

 

[Belgium]

Uhhhhhh....You are asking the wrong questions my dude.

The occupation is inherently violent. It is the colonial vioence that begets colonized violence. There is not one anti-colonial struggle in the world that has not taken up violence armed resistance to fight back to break free from the violence of their colonizers.

You are asking and thinking the wrong moral equivalence. Your colonial mindset has you so conditioned (I do not care if you're not white - you surely are upholding white colonial violence and supremacy as some of us non-white folks can internalize it), that you cannot think logically on how this is the natural state of an inherent violent occupation and settler-colonial state.

What do you expect from men that live in a concentration camp, under brutal siege, lack of basic human rights, no food or water security, and have had their families wiped out and killed for generations now. They protest peacefully and mostly exercise non-violent means, only to be shot and killed for it. They are up against the most advanced and militarized aggression, violence and superpower in the region. You really think there will be no violence back?

You are just asking for the quiet submission of the oppressed and occupied to the violence of their oppressors and occupiers.

The NERVE, because as they say, as a Gazan, you are born dead. Since the last few wars there is a suicide epidemic there. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/18/a-suicide-in-gaza

Since Gazans are worth dead, all they have is to use their bodies to tell the world, look at us, look what is happening, look at what they are doing to us, look at where your tax dollars are going.

You are REALLY asking why these men go this route in asymmetrical warfare to fight their pccupation, ethnic cleansing and genocide? You are romanticizing some B.S. anti-colonial struggle and projecting your own morality superiority complex because it rattles you that as a man you would resort to what they do as well if you were living in the longest occupation and inhumane concentration camp.

Why are you not asking why as the occupiers and oppressors (include the racist violent settlers and extremists) they are resorting to violence on the oppressed and occupied.

But, you want to take your own internal racism and conditioned colonial mindset on another peoples that have suffered the gravest and inhumane human rights violations in our times. You just want their QUIET SUBMISSION to colonial violence and oppression. I think you need to question your morality and judgments.

IMPORTANT EDIT: I initially wrongly attributed this smear attempt post to debso , because that's who I was engaging in a discussion with and the hypothetical question referenced below was addressed at him. I hadn't noticed that this me love nutella person suddenly jumped in that discussion and wrote a smear attempt. So I will be editing out certain sections that were wrongfully addressed to Debso.

It's just getting pathetic at this point. I don't know why you decided to jump in this discussion and make up a bunch of lies about me.
All I was asking is if in that hypothetical scenario, if Debso was the one whose family was brutally killed, would he consider his family collateral damage and support the killers because they're fighting to retake their land?

I'll go point by point refuting each and every line addressed to me, which consists entirely of lies, baseless fabrications and delusional attempts at falsely putting words in my mouth. Just for future reference, yes I am indeed white. I was initially going to bold/underline the specific parts where you're lying, fabricating or falsely putting words in my mouth but it'd look silly with your entire post in bold/underlined.

You are asking and thinking the wrong moral equivalence. Your colonial mindset has you so conditioned (I do not care if you're not white - you surely are upholding white colonial violence and supremacy as some of us non-white folks can internalize it), that you cannot think logically on how this is the natural state of an inherent violent occupation and settler-colonial state.

What do you expect from men that live in a concentration camp, under brutal siege, lack of basic human rights, no food or water security, and have had their families wiped out and killed for generations now. They protest peacefully and mostly exercise non-violent means, only to be shot and killed for it. They are up against the most advanced and militarized aggression, violence and superpower in the region. You really think there will be no violence back?

All of the above quote is disingenous nonsense you made up.
The following earlier posts of mine, which came before I posed that question to Debso, refute each and every bit of the lies you conjured up.
"You cannot think logically on how this is the natural state of an inherent violation occupation and settler-colonial state" is a lie that my earlier posts directly refute.
"What do you expect?" ... "You really think there will be no violence back?", is also entirely refuted by what I said earlier.

Terrorism (Hamas) is bad, and Israeli perpetual cruelty and ‘settlements’ (aka colonisation) that just ends up creating more terrorism is also bad.

It’s not rocket science why an attack like this is happening.

When you treat people like how the Israeli government treats the Palestinians, yes they had an attack like this coming.

The only surprise here is the scale and success of the attack.

Now, on to the next.

You are just asking for the quiet submission of the oppressed and occupied to the violence of their oppressors and occupiers.

The NERVE, because as they say, as a Gazan, you are born dead. Since the last few wars there is a suicide epidemic there. https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/may/18/a-suicide-in-gaza

Since Gazans are worth dead, all they have is to use their bodies to tell the world, look at us, look what is happening, look at what they are doing to us, look at where your tax dollars are going.

As before, all of this is a complete lie. I have never asked or suggested the "quiet submission"
As my quotes from earlier demonstrate, that is not even a realistic scenario because Israel's treatment of the Palestines breeds terrorism and violent uprisings. Additionally, it's not like Israel has shown even the slightest genuine interest in a peaceful solution.
So once again you're just making things up as you go.

So, on to the next point.

You are REALLY asking why these men go this route in asymmetrical warfare to fight their pccupation, ethnic cleansing and genocide? You are romanticizing some B.S. anti-colonial struggle and projecting your own morality superiority complex because it rattles you that as a man you would resort to what they do as well if you were living in the longest occupation and inhumane concentration camp.

Why are you not asking why as the occupiers and oppressors (include the racist violent settlers and extremists) they are resorting to violence on the oppressed and occupied.

But, you want to take your own internal racism and conditioned colonial mindset on another peoples that have suffered the gravest and inhumane human rights violations in our times. You just want their QUIET SUBMISSION to colonial violence and oppression. I think you need to question your morality and judgments.

What a shocker. Once again each and every single word of this is lies and putting words in my mouth, then having the gall to say I should check my morality and judgments.
No, I am not "asking why these men go this route."
That's just another lie you made up.
Again, my previous statements refute everything you're fabricating here. As I said before, when you treat people as horrifically as the Israeli government has been doing to the Palestinians for many decades, it is logical, understandable and should not be a surprise to anyone that this kind of oppression breeds terrorism and general violence.


This is honestly just sad. You wrote a whole bunch of paragraphs filled from top to bottom with literally nothing but baseless lies that are very easily refuted.
All for what exactly? I don't get it.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Lying so you can morally grandstand on the sneaker forum is nasty behavior.

 

[Belgium]

Lying so you can morally grandstand on the sneaker forum is nasty behavior.

The extent of it is baffling. I was civil in my conversation with him, didn't put words in his mouth, nor did I accuse him of anything. I saw no reason for conflict.
I posed a hypothetical in my question about one particular sentence he said. The question is solely aimed at that one sentence about supporting a hypothetical Native American group retaking their rightful land "by any means necessary."

The sole intent of the question is to see if he would still stand by those words if in that scenario, the "by any means necessary"' included the indiscriminate slaughter of his family.
Would he stand by his word and support the killers in that scenario?

That's literally it. Nothing more.

Yet somehow that one question resulted in arguably the most pathetic smear attempt I've seen on here, or at least directed towards me. me love nutella shamelessly wrote all those paragraphs, in which literally every point/smear is a complete lie or fabrication. Even worse, he proceeded to make several accusations against me based solely on his own lies he made up about me.

Anyone who's ever discussed anything with me here knows I keep it civil, even with people like Ninjahood, who insisted on repeatedly mocking my medical issues during our discussions.

By the way I apologize to debso , I initially didn't notice that it wasn't even him that wrote this wall of lies but someone else who randomly jumped in the middle of it. As of now I have edited my previous post accordingly to remove comments wrongfully addressed to Debso because I mistakenly thought that he was the one who conjured up this smear attempt.
Which makes it even weirder, because my question was addressed to him and suddenly me love nutella decides to jump in with this utterly pathetic smear attempt.

 

[elpablo21]

 

[ahat]

 

[me love nutella]

IMPORTANT EDIT: I initially wrongly attributed this smear attempt post to debso , because that's who I was engaging in a discussion with and the hypothetical question referenced below was addressed at him. I hadn't noticed that this me love nutella person suddenly jumped in that discussion and wrote a smear attempt. So I will be editing out certain sections that were wrongfully addressed to Debso.

It's just getting pathetic at this point. I don't know why you decided to jump in this discussion and make up a bunch of lies about me.
All I was asking is if in that hypothetical scenario, if Debso was the one whose family was brutally killed, would he consider his family collateral damage and support the killers because they're fighting to retake their land?

I'll go point by point refuting each and every line addressed to me, which consists entirely of lies, baseless fabrications and delusional attempts at falsely putting words in my mouth. Just for future reference, yes I am indeed white. I was initially going to bold/underline the specific parts where you're lying, fabricating or falsely putting words in my mouth but it'd look silly with your entire post in bold/underlined.


All of the above quote is disingenous nonsense you made up.
The following earlier posts of mine, which came before I posed that question to Debso, refute each and every bit of the lies you conjured up.
"You cannot think logically on how this is the natural state of an inherent violation occupation and settler-colonial state" is a lie that my earlier posts directly refute.
"What do you expect?" ... "You really think there will be no violence back?", is also entirely refuted by what I said earlier.





Now, on to the next.


As before, all of this is a complete lie. I have never asked or suggested the "quiet submission"
As my quotes from earlier demonstrate, that is not even a realistic scenario because Israel's treatment of the Palestines breeds terrorism and violent uprisings. Additionally, it's not like Israel has shown even the slightest genuine interest in a peaceful solution.
So once again you're just making things up as you go.

So, on to the next point.


What a shocker. Once again each and every single word of this is lies and putting words in my mouth, then having the gall to say I should check my morality and judgments.
No, I am not "asking why these men go this route."
That's just another lie you made up.
Again, my previous statements refute everything you're fabricating here. As I said before, when you treat people as horrifically as the Israeli government has been doing to the Palestinians for many decades, it is logical, understandable and should not be a surprise to anyone that this kind of oppression breeds terrorism and general violence.


This is honestly just sad. You wrote a whole bunch of paragraphs filled from top to bottom with literally nothing but baseless lies that are very easily refuted.
All for what exactly? I don't get it.

Then I apologize and thank you for explaining.

I have been reading some hypotheticals left and right in comments, and I must have assumed something else.

I also have a head cold, and I am feeling generally distressed and distraught as I am Palestinian.

Anyways, wishing you a great day.

 

[ballinsam23]

One side uses children as shields another side gives out bs warnings before dropping airstrikes killing predominantly children.

All this does is just build more generational hatred among these two so we can forget about any peace under the current leadership of both sides.

Has any Muslim country stepped up to take in Palestinian refugees yet?

 

[elpablo21]

Doctors without Borders

 

[Belgium]

Then I apologize and thank you for explaining.

I have been reading some hypotheticals left and right in comments, and I must have assumed something else.

I also have a head cold, and I am feeling generally distressed and distraught as I am Palestinian.

Anyways, wishing you a great day.

I appreciate the apology.
Mistakes happen, and as you can see I too mistakenly addressed you, thinking you were the other user I was previously engaging in a discussion.
I know topics like this are bound to be contentious, and I assume a rushed/mistaken response is what took place here.

Either way with this apology, what's in the past is in the past so on my end it's all good and we can move on.

 

[Belgium]

Doctors without Borders

That hospital is in the "evacuation zone", aka the massacre zone, and there is no other hospital in the area they're supposed to evacuate to...
Evacuation in such a short time with so many people isn't even remotely possible in the first place.
The bloodbath is going to be horrifying

 

[elpablo21]

 

[fargin]

 

[smedroc]

Hamas killed a bunch of non Israeli's, you living on stolen land my guy,
if they rape your mom, and kill your children I hope you take it in stride.

 

[DripNick]

"Not evil"

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[Brownstone]

War for 75 years and won't be solved because of religion and imaginary differences

When I found out there was such a thing as Palestinian Jews I got real confused, Problem is Americans hate history, reading it, thinking about it, considering it in any way at all. That is why so many people are clueless on this matter.

 

[ccastro02]

One side uses children as shields another side gives out bs warnings before dropping airstrikes killing predominantly children.

All this does is just build more generational hatred among these two so we can forget about any peace under the current leadership of both sides.

Has any Muslim country stepped up to take in Palestinian refugees yet?

Geographically, Gaza Strip is landlocked by Israel and Egypt and both have closed their borders. And the Mediterranean see directly adjacent to Gaza is controlled by isreal. Even if other Arab nations wanted to accept refugees, theirs literally no physical outlet for Palestinians to flee. Real sad state of affairs.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

War for 75 years and won't be solved because of religion and imaginary differences

When I found out there was such a thing as Palestinian Jews I got real confused, Problem is Americans hate history, reading it, thinking about it, considering it in any way at all. That is why so many people are clueless on this matter.

I think people really overrate the religion aspect.

like I think they could all be atheists and you'd get the same outcomes pretty much.

 

[Zainjal26]

And it’ll continue to rise

And they have nothing to do with hamas

Netanyahu is a genocidal mad man

 

[wayniac211]

I think people really overrate the religion aspect.

like I think they could all be atheists and you'd get the same outcomes pretty much.

or it could be one side is dark and other light skin