Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

[gry60]

Why did you not quote the part about the persecution of his family and his great grandfather being executed?

Did you see the part of my post about the rules of war changing between 1800 and now?

 

[pmatic]

 

[me love nutella]

Since you like speaking on hypotheticals and assumptions.

If Israel gives up the land, do you think Hamas is going to run it like some prospering Arab country? What have they done to prove that they can lead Palestinians into a peaceful democracy? You don't think other Arab/Muslim countries are going to go to war for it? Especially with Iran pulling the strings. It'll be more violence.

Lets stop all these hypotheticals.

US convincing Egypt to open its borders is a good thing. The common denominator here is the death of innocents. This should lead to fewer innocents dying and hopefully a better life for the Palestinian refugees.

This is the colonial and internal and conditioned colonial/anti-Muslim/internal Arab racism I am talking about. This is the internal conditioning of white colonial savior complex. Please, de-condition yourself from thinking that corresponds with the belief that the cultural values of the colonizer are inherently superior to their colonized.

It is not up to you to decide WHO Palestinians will choose to run their country. Whether it'll be a democracy or better or not, or whether it'll go into chaos to fill the power vaccum. You do not know. We are not in any place to instill and enforce our values into them, and let them figure it out naturally with what aligns to their values and identity.

In fact, MANY TIMES when the Middle East has attempted to democratic rule, the U.S. and Western backed superpowers come and overthrow them as it does not align to their interests. One of the contributing factors why the Middle East is messed up is because of the West. Also, the reasons Arab and Muslim countries have beef with each other is because how the colonizer West bred the tensions and conflicts by who they support, armed and funded to maintain division between ethnicities, tribes and religious sects and factions.

The U.S. and Israel do not care about killings of civilians and never did., and if you see what has been happening right now. will show you as they have been complicit in the ethnic genocide of Palestinians for decades and today. All they care about is power, land and wealth.

 

[1995]

This is just to show you all how insidious and twisted the Zionist propaganda machine is.

You all seriously need to verify EVERYTHING and fact-check, not even ANY NEWS coming out from the IDF or Israeli spokespersons or officials. They are known to play on fabrications to push their goals and gain sympathy based on lies and disnformation. That is why I NEVER believe anything they say as they are not credible until credible sources can confirm.

For example, where is this coming from Palestinians were celebrating 9/11? You know how many times it has been debunked? You can even tell the footage shot is not 2001 technology. This video was shot back in 1991.

Palestinians Dancing in the Street

Did CNN fake footage of 'Palestinians dancing in the street' after the terrorist attack on the USA?

www.snopes.com

PLEASE BE CAREFUL AND CHECK YOUR SOURCES. You're falling for it.

The video is legitimate according to that snopes link, but it was just a small group and not representative of all Palestian people which is the narrative that was being pushed

But your overall point still stands...Brigitte Gabriel is an Islamophobic right-wing propagandist and people need to do a better job at considering their sources

 

[smedroc]

Did you see the part of my post about the rules of war changing between 1800 and now?

What of it?

I don't see what 'rule changes' has to do with people deciding to flee from life threatening conflict.

 

[me love nutella]

The video is legitimate according to that snopes link, but it was just a small group and not representative of all Palestian people which is the narrative that was being pushed

But your overall point still stands...Brigitte Gabriel is an Islamophobic right-wing propagandist and people need to do a better job at considering their sources

I was trying to point out how that video is disinformation. That video is NOT Palestinians celebrating the 9/11 attacks as it was shot in 1991. It was celebrating the invasion of Kuwait by Saddam Hussein in 1990.

Also, the whole taking one frienge group of folks and say they celebrated you can find FROM any sides. I can find videos of MAGA, Zionists, Israelis themselves and their sympathizers celebrating or talking hate speech of Muslims, Arabs, and even Gazans right now. You have these fringe racists on every side.

Like you should see right now on the Palestinian side with videos circulating it is Israelis celebrating Gazan children dead. Very present on both sides that you will find this and painting it as that whole group.

 

[John Wick]

uh just FYI im pretty sure this guy is a Nazi or at least Nazi adjacent.
He's like homies with Nick Feuntes I think.

I dont know who this guy is just came across the tweet and checked the comments but good looking out on that info

 

[ballinsam23]

In fact, MANY TIMES when the Middle East has attempted to democratic rule, the U.S. and Western backed superpowers come and overthrow them as it does not align to their interests. One of the contributing factors why the Middle East is messed up is because of the West. Also, the reasons Arab and Muslim countries have beef with each other is because how the colonizer West bred the tensions and conflicts by who they support, armed and funded to maintain division between ethnicities, tribes and religious sects and factions.

Can you give me examples of when the Muslim/Arab countries in the Middle East attempted democratic rule? Which ones are currently thriving democratic countries. Don’t get this confused with islamophobia either because you like jumping to conclusions.

Also you are blaming Sunni/Shiite beef on the West. Please elaborate with facts. How did the the United States start the killings between Muslims that still occurs to this day.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This is the colonial and internal and conditioned colonial/anti-Muslim/internal Arab racism I am talking about. This is the internal conditioning of white colonial savior complex. Please, de-condition yourself from thinking that corresponds with the belief that the cultural values of the colonizer are inherently superior to their colonized.

you gotta stop with the word salads.

not everyone who disagrees with you is internally conditioned by anti Muslim colonial anti arab internalized racism/

 

[me love nutella]

Can you give me examples of when the Muslim/Arab countries in the Middle East attempted democratic rule? Which ones are currently thriving democratic countries. Don’t get this confused with islamophobia either because you like jumping to conclusions.

Also you are blaming Sunni/Shiite beef on the West. Please elaborate with facts. How did the the United States start the killings between Muslims that still occurs to this day.

You must have a very limited view of Middle Eastern politics and history, and how their interference in foreign policy to support their colonial and imperialist ambitions is what wreaks havoc in the region. Since the 19th century, the U.S.. has participated and interfered, both overtly and covertly, in the replacement of many foreign governments. This includes sowing divisions between ethnicities, tribes, religious sects, etc. not only in the Middle East but other regions in the Global South. I am not doing the labour and you can easily google to educate yourself and find out for yourself.

Also, Israel is not a democracy. In addition, the U.S. and other Western countries are not in any moral position above others in their Western version of "democracy".

 

[me love nutella]

you gotta stop with the word salads.

not everyone who disagrees with you is internally conditioned by anti Muslim colonial anti arab internalized racism/

No, I do not need to because this is the narratives and framework which the world functions. You may not see it through the colonial lens. But, it is pretty much known and set that white supremacy, patriarchy and capitalism are the dominant structures and we ALL have internalized it one way or another, but some of us can deconstruct it.

 

[htg designs]

I was trying to point out how that video is disinformation. That video is NOT Palestinians celebrating the 9/11 attacks as it was shot in 1991. It was celebrating the invasion of Kuwait by Saddam Hussein in 1990.

Also, the whole taking one frienge group of folks and say they celebrated you can find FROM any sides. I can find videos of MAGA, Zionists, Israelis themselves and their sympathizers celebrating or talking hate speech of Muslims, Arabs, and even Gazans right now. You have these fringe racists on every side.

Like you should see right now on the Palestinian side with videos circulating it is Israelis celebrating Gazan children dead. Very present on both sides that you will find this and painting it as that whole group.

Dude that just confirms it. I read the whole link you posted and it says it IS VIDEO legit on 9/11 of Palestinians celebrating the attack (shot by Reuters) from the link you shared:

Origins: No, CNN did not air decade-old footage of Palestinians dancing in the streets. Eason Jordan, CNN's Chief News Executive, confirmed that the video used on CNN was in fact shot on Tuesday, 11 September 2001, in East Jerusalem by a Reuters TV crew, not during the Persian Gulf conflict of 1990-91 — a fact proved by its inclusion of comments from a Palestinian praising Osama Bin Laden (whose name was unlikely to have come up ten years earlier in connection with the invasion and liberation of Kuwait) as well as the appearance in the video of post-1991 automobiles.

-------


The footage was real. It's a shame, in fact, that its provenance was doubted because the lives of journalists who have attempted to capture similar acts on video have been threatened. That this tape made it out at all is a miracle. But CNN's reputation was besmirched by a single person, a Brazilian student who reported (without verification) that the footage in question actually came from a 1991 report

on "Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait," a copy of which was in the possession of one of his teachers. (Actually, the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq took place in 1990, and it's unlikely anyone captured images of Palestinians "celebrating" that event.
-----

You gotta verify as you said

 

[computersputin]

Did this dude just debunk himself?

We really need to be careful and check our sources. me love nutella fell for it.

 

[me love nutella]

Dude that just confirms it. I read the whole link you posted and it says it IS VIDEO legit on 9/11 of Palestinians celebrating the attack (shot by Reuters) from the link you shared:

Origins: No, CNN did not air decade-old footage of Palestinians dancing in the streets. Eason Jordan, CNN's Chief News Executive, confirmed that the video used on CNN was in fact shot on Tuesday, 11 September 2001, in East Jerusalem by a Reuters TV crew, not during the Persian Gulf conflict of 1990-91 — a fact proved by its inclusion of comments from a Palestinian praising Osama Bin Laden (whose name was unlikely to have come up ten years earlier in connection with the invasion and liberation of Kuwait) as well as the appearance in the video of post-1991 automobiles.

-------


The footage was real. It's a shame, in fact, that its provenance was doubted because the lives of journalists who have attempted to capture similar acts on video have been threatened. That this tape made it out at all is a miracle. But CNN's reputation was besmirched by a single person, a Brazilian student who reported (without verification) that the footage in question actually came from a 1991 report

on "Palestinians celebrating the invasion of Kuwait," a copy of which was in the possession of one of his teachers. (Actually, the invasion of Kuwait by Iraq took place in 1990, and it's unlikely anyone captured images of Palestinians "celebrating" that event.
-----

You gotta verify as you said

Then whoops. My fault ya'll. I thought that was the video celebrating the Kuwait invasions as I had seen it before.

I thought it was speaking on the Kuwait videos which were out there. I just checked right now and you are right that Reuters crosschecked it.

 

[computersputin]

Its okay bro.
This is just to show you all how insidious and twisted the anti-Zionist propaganda machine is.

 

[gry60]

What of it?

I don't see what 'rule changes' has to do with people deciding to flee from life threatening conflict.

I suppose YOU missed the part where he suggested they'd live better in exile. Taking into account the pro-Israel bias of his posts, it isn't hard to wonder why he would readily ignore the Palestinians' perspective that maybe, this is yet another attempt to permanently displace them, which has been a war crime since the Geneva Accords were ratified.

To explain his position with his family history, which has happened under very different circumstances, is simply ridiculous. Why does it matter today, in the context of this discussion?

 

[moderndarwin]

me love nutella gone off the deep end lol and i love it. There’s colonizer mentality and there’s also victim mentality. People need to rise up within their countries and regimes. Outside forces never gonna do it. There’s like 7M Jews in Israel and 2 billion Muslim people. You’re telling me that all these other Muslims can’t help a brother out? It makes no sense for the US to be the olive branch out there when all the surrounding countries unwilling to shake a tail feather of support. Israel is like the size of New Jersey. They punch above their weight and are scared. They got no where to go, have historically been persecuted, and we act like their response is some david vs goliath scenario when in reality they are a very small people who are only able to have any small semblance of security because they’ve allied and supported the US so staunchly. Think about this. In 90s they had scud missiles fired at Tel Aviv and showed restraint because the US asked them to. No one in the US would ever show that level of restraint if any surrounding country did anything remotely close to that.

The US wants an ally in that part of that world that doesn’t absolutely hate the US. And that security logic overrides any other priorities such as human rights violations. Obviously no regular person wants that but to not see the bigger picture is like freshman college liberal hippie level thinking.

 

[me love nutella]

big college freshman who who took one philosophy class energy.

Nice guess.

Graduated decades ago first with a major in Economics, minor in Political Science. Then I also graduated with a Masters in Public and International Affairs.

I also know from lived experience as I am of Palestinian origin and my parents are Palestinian refugees. We are direct victims of Israel's occupation, ethnic cleansing, genocide and apartheid. It is also from my personal involvement in grassroots activism for the Palestinian cause since my early 20s. I used to be confronted by Zionists all the time and had to know the history front to back and crosscheck with Zionist revisionist history to counter the revisionism and disinformation/misinformation.

I also am a woman, not a dude.

 

[1995]

Did this dude just debunk himself?

Its okay bro.

 

[me love nutella]

me love nutella gone off the deep end lol and i love it. There’s colonizer mentality and there’s also victim mentality. People need to rise up within their countries and regimes. Outside forces never gonna do it. There’s like 7M Jews in Israel and 2 billion Muslim people. You’re telling me that all these other Muslims can’t help a brother out? It makes no sense for the US to be the olive branch out there when all the surrounding countries unwilling to shake a tail feather of support. Israel is like the size of New Jersey. They punch above their weight and are scared. They got no where to go, have historically been persecuted, and we act like their response is some david vs goliath scenario when in reality they are a very small people who are only able to have any small semblance of security because they’ve allied and supported the US so staunchly. Think about this. In 90s they had scud missiles fired at Tel Aviv and showed restraint because the US asked them to. No one in the US would ever show that level of restraint if any surrounding country did anything remotely close to that.

The US wants an ally in that part of that world that doesn’t absolutely hate the US. And that security logic overrides any other priorities such as human rights violations. Obviously no regular person wants that but to not see the bigger picture is like freshman college liberal hippie level thinking.

Again, what gives you the right to take the suffering from one people and then justify it to make another people your victims and make them suffer.? That is some twisted psychopathy of then having the abused become the abuser and then justify it to pass down their trauma and pain. So why it is the Palestinians paid the price for the horrors inflicted upon Jews in Europe since it is they who were robbed of their homeland by the newly established Jewish state in 1948?

History of Jewish suffering does not have the monopoly as all of us have history of our peoples being persecuted and suffering. What you said sounds like the victim mentality to me, and it is commodified and packaged to this sort of supremacy to dehumanize and justify the oppression of the Palestinian Arabs.

Nice try, but there is no level that you can justify MY FAMILY to have been kicked out of THEIR homeland to establish Israel. Again it is your colonial mindset and you will play all the mental gymnastics to justify it.

I will end with NOT ALL MUSLIMS are a monolith. There are also Palestinian Christians who suffer under Israeli occupation. The roots are not not based on a religious issue, but moreso what takesp precedent is that it is about the theft of STOLEN LAND, and the dispossession, expulsion and ethnic cleansing of the native Arab Palestinians. Most Arabs, as in the people, are for the Palestinian cause, it is their corrupt governments that were installed or backed by the British/French and Americans to keep it in check to secure Israel for their imperialist interests and ambitions in the region.

You are telling me it was a great idea to establish Israel and that it was safer in THAT region knowing they were going to steal lands and ethnically cleanse another people? For real? How's it going for them?

 

[ahat]

Why don't you look up the history of the 1953 Iranian coup d'état, in which the U.S.- and British-instigated, Iranian army-led overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favor of strengthening the monarchical rule of the shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. There I gave you one you can educate yourself on. Start from there.

Books to get started:
Amazon product ASIN 1910814490Amazon product ASIN 1787383040
Nah, you just can't grasp or understand what I type because it is above your intellectual level. You also cannot grasp the full context of history and politics, but you base it off your biased confirmations and views.

Here's another book that details the US involvement in other countries and how they ruined those countries

 

[moderndarwin]

Again, what gives you the right to take the suffering from one people and then justify it to make another people your victims and make them suffer.? That is some twisted psychopathy of then having the abused become the abuser and then justify it to pass down their trauma and pain. So why it is the Palestinians paid the price for the horrors inflicted upon Jews in Europe since it is they who were robbed of their homeland by the newly established Jewish state in 1948.

History of Jewish suffering does not have the monopoly as all of us have history of our peoples being persecuted and suffering. What you said sounds like the victim mentality to me, and it is commodified and packaged to this sort of supremacy to dehumanize and justify the oppression of the Palestinian Arabs.

Nice try, but there is no level that you can justify MY FAMILY to have been kicked out of THEIR homeland to establish Israel. Again it is your colonial mindset and you will play all the mental gymnastics to justify it.

I will end with NOT ALL MUSLIMS are a monolith. There are also Palestinian Christians who suffer under Israeli occupation. It is not based on a religious issue, but ABOUT STOLEN LAND. Most Arabs, as in the people, are for the Palestinian cause, it is their corrupt governments that were installed or backed by the British/French and Americans to keep it in check to secure Israel for their imperialist interests and ambitions in the region.

You are telling me it was a great idea to establish Israel and that it was safer in THAT region knowing they were going to steal lands and ethnically cleanse another people? For real? How's it going for them?

i think you’re an excellent writer but you’re reading what other people say here in a very strange convulsed way.

my entire comment was - it’s a terrible situation - but if you’re not willing to understand the perspective of the people there you’re never going to move forward. It’s fairy tale nonsense to think that the oppressed will magically have some global aha moment and win like it’s Star Wars.

Same way the native Americans aren’t going to reclaim the US.

There is a reality to the situation that extremist viewpoints simply don’t get. And if extremist viewpoints are the only ones that resonate with you then it’s a simple violent no end in sight scenario. Which honestly is maybe what it will continue as unfortunately because I don’t even think your viewpoint is “wrong”. It’s human nature one tribe versus another tribe base level instincts.

Your entire argument is stop picking on us and everyone play fair. That’s incredibly college freshman thinking. That’s not going to work. Even the other countries around Israel don’t care to make that the result.

 

[me love nutella]

Since we have a bunch of pro-Zionist/Israel talking points that no one has ever suffered more than the Jews to justify the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, and thrown around that others have the victim mentality, when using Jewish suffering as justification to colonize another people is the actual victim mindset. Here is a relevant take.

 

[me love nutella]

Here's another book that details the US involvement in other countries and how they ruined those countries

Never heard of this book. Just looked it up, and seems like a really good read.

I will most definitely check it out, and thanks for sharing the recommendation.

 

[me love nutella]

i think you’re an excellent writer but you’re reading what other people say here in a very strange convulsed way.

my entire comment was - it’s a terrible situation - but if you’re not willing to understand the perspective of the people there you’re never going to move forward. It’s fairy tale nonsense to think that the oppressed will magically have some global aha moment and win like it’s Star Wars.

Same way the native Americans aren’t going to reclaim the US.

There is a reality to the situation that extremist viewpoints simply don’t get. And if extremist viewpoints are the only ones that resonate with you then it’s a simple violent no end in sight scenario. Which honestly is maybe what it will continue as unfortunately because I don’t even think your viewpoint is “wrong”. It’s human nature one tribe versus another tribe base level instincts.

Your entire argument is stop picking on us and everyone play fair. That’s incredibly college freshman thinking. That’s not going to work. Even the other countries around Israel don’t care to make that the result.

So, basically you're saying you Palestinians should continue to submit to Israel's demands and stay living as stateless and an occupied people?

My take is not radical when saying that we need to dismantle these systems is the only way we can achieve peace. It can be done. It has been done before and can be done again. The greatest and strongest empires fell one way or another.

It is also different than the history period of the the Native Americans because the whole event of displacement and expulsion of Palestinians happened under new institutions that should be held accountable to international legal and human rights, acts and statutes. Although, even with these global institutions set up have their strings pulled by the elites and dominant powers.