Israel declares War - Destruction of Gaza / Growing conflict in Middle East

[ballinsam23]

I also know from lived experience as I am of Palestinian origin and my parents are Palestinian refugees. We are direct victims of Israel's occupation, ethnic cleansing, genocide and apartheid. It is also from my personal involvement in grassroots activism for the Palestinian cause since my early 20s. I used to be confronted by Zionists all the time and had to know the history front to back and crosscheck with Zionist revisionist history to counter the revisionism and disinformation/misinformation.

This is all you had to say, I have a doctorate as well but it doesn’t matter.

What part of Palestine?

I have a very close friend who was also is a Palestenian refugee originally from Jordan who is now in the states because his father got a great gig here. I also have family that are both Arabs and Jews living in Israeli cities.

 

[gry60]

This is the conclusion you came to? Do better.

You suggested that me love nutella was being hyperbolic at the mention of possible Israeli ulterior motives to take over the land:

If Egypt's Sisi gives the green light to take in Gazans into the Sinai, Israel and the U.S. will win easy. They take over Gaza, no Gazan left to support Hamas or another resistance and they're not allowed back.

They take Gaza and build the port for trade and there's slowly untapped oil reserves. But a big factor is no more enemies on the coast of Israel by pushing them more out.

To which I asked why you'd consider that hypothetical considering the latest statements and current Palestinian policy of the Israeli cabinet and its members.

You can't want folks to consider the reservations of Israelis and handwave those of Palestinians, which, if we are honest, are legitimate given the circumstances. And you can't expect to be taken seriously when you suggest they should just roll over and accept to be victims of a war crime.

You do better.

 

[ballinsam23]

gry60 Then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

If we’re gonna talk in extremes. To me staying alive is winning. Getting out is winning. Especially since it’s been none stop violence for generations and no resistance movement will win.

If my family stayed we’d all be dead. I’m speaking from experience.

 

[me love nutella]

gry60 Then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

If we’re gonna talk in extremes. To me staying alive is winning. Getting out is winning. Especially since it’s been none stop violence for generations and no resistance movement will win.

If my family stayed we’d all be dead. I’m speaking from experience.

Palestinians see it much different though and live it is as another experience.

Some fled to find refuge in 1948 and 1967 and what happened to them? Some Palestinians will tell you they will die on their land because they will not suffer the same fate as other Palestinian refugees that have never been allowed to return back or became stuck living in refugee camps in neighboring Arab countries.

 

[me love nutella]

This is all you had to say, I have a doctorate as well but it doesn’t matter.

What part of Palestine?

I have a very close friend who was also is a Palestenian refugee originally from Jordan who is now in the states because his father got a great gig here. I also have family that are both Arabs and Jews living in Israeli cities.

It is my style and I know I can be long-winded and wordy, but it is the way I think and speak sometimes. But, it is very much my writing style, which I know sometimes may not land to others.

It is a village near Tulkarem in the West Bank. My parents now mainly have cousins there and the older generations died off. But, my parents now own property and land there in their names.

Also, I also hold a lot of respect for the Iraqi Jewish community, and I very much know they had such a vibrant community and quarters in Baghdad. If I ever go to Iraq, it is one of the neighborhoods I would love to visit. I also loved visiting and seeing the culture of the Moroccan Jews in Marrakesh.

 

[ballinsam23]

Some Palestinians will tell you they will die on their land because they will not suffer the same fate as other Palestinian refugees that have never been allowed to return back or became stuck living in refugee camps in neighboring Arab countries.

But you see this is one of my main questions since this thread started. Why don’t the other Arab countries taking in Palestinians help them thrive? Most don’t even have their doors open despite having Arab communities.

You can’t believe that this is because of the US as well.

It really be your own that doesn’t even help you out.

The most recent example is Ukranian refugees in the US. There a plenty of largely populated Ukrainian cities in the US. They are helping these Ukrainians out in every way possible (language, getting situated with a job, living, etc). There are programs to get your life on the right track specifically created by Ukrainians.

The same for other ethnic backgrounds in diverse cities throughout the world. You gravitate towards your own due to familiarity and your own help you out.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Nice guess.

Graduated decades ago first with a major in Economics, minor in Political Science. Then I also graduated with a Masters in Public and International Affairs.

I also know from lived experience as I am of Palestinian origin and my parents are Palestinian refugees. We are direct victims of Israel's occupation, ethnic cleansing, genocide and apartheid. It is also from my personal involvement in grassroots activism for the Palestinian cause since my early 20s. I used to be confronted by Zionists all the time and had to know the history front to back and crosscheck with Zionist revisionist history to counter the revisionism and disinformation/misinformation.

I also am a woman, not a dude.

Well consider using the knowledge you gained and addressing peoples claims, instead of resorting to very academic sounding name calling.

well i can certainly empathize with your personal connection to the subject matter.
it's not enough to call people who disagrees with you racist anti-arab colonialists ect ect.

it's no different than the people who conflate anti-Zionism with antisemitism.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

My take is not radical when saying that we need to dismantle these systems is the only way we can achieve peace.

What does this mean, practically?

 

[moderndarwin]

me love nutella you obviously can’t be objective you’re too close and personal to it. Makes a lot more sense now. And frankly if you were you’d be a bit cold hearted. Not really worth having all of us discourse this much on a subject when we have such differing starting points. Your take is 100% right from your perspective.

There are 55 active conflicts going on. To me, this is 1 of many. To you this is 1 of 1 that matters. My opinion is coming from the global perspective of what can be done / what is realistic / how do i see this playing out. I just don’t think Israel is going to all of a sudden say hey let’s just change completely and if it does it will be through internal civil revolution by the 2M Palestinians living there. They make up a large percentage of the 9M population of Israel. This extremist actions by a terrorist organization I think highlights the issues existing but really doesn’t offer any true path forward for a co-existent life there.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Again; people out here making very strange arguments.

 

[Zainjal26]

1k now

 

[nonnative]

Don't take this zealot too seriously. He's been called out too many times for posting outright lies and lashing out by baselessly calling others that don't agree with him racist and supporters of terrorism. So now he resorts to conveniently posting unverifiable anecdotes and hypotheticals and piggy backing on an intellectually dishonest "free thinker" that happens to have the same view as him.

This is the same guy that visited an apartheid state as a member and supporter of the oppressor and thinks it's all fine and everyone's just going about their lives like normal.

This is not a serious person.

 

[seasoned vet]

What of it?

I don't see what 'rule changes' has to do with people deciding to flee from life threatening conflict.

self preservation should be a no brainer, sadly its not for too many

 

[degenerate423]

 

[heelsandeers]

Palestinians will be free and eventually get statehood because Israel as it exists now is not sustainable. The Palestinian demographic problem will make Israel as a majority Jewish run country obsolete eventually.

Hasn't this been the thought since 1947? No Palestinian State was established because the Arab nations believed they could stamp out Israel. It was war or negotiations and Palestinians with surrounding Arab nations backing them chose the former

Of course that failure wasn't on the Palestinians but on the international community that didn't ensure that Palestinians had a land, state, and government of their own. They were facing negotiations concerning their homeland in which those leading the negotiations clearly favored the other party

I am just not sure what changes with regards to the current situation as long as Israel maintains collected Western nations' support. The demographic problem as you mention is real, and why a one-state solution will always be a non-starter

 

[ahat]

Don't take this zealot too seriously. He's been called out too many times for posting outright lies and lashing out by baselessly calling others that don't agree with him racist and supporters of terrorism. So now he resorts to conveniently posting unverifiable anecdotes and hypotheticals and piggy backing on an intellectually dishonest "free thinker" that happens to have the same view as him.

This is the same guy that visited an apartheid state as a member and supporter of the oppressor and thinks it's all fine and everyone's just going about their lives like normal.

This is not a serious person.

Who

 

[degenerate423]

 

[ahat]

Shocker

 

[gry60]

Opinion | Why a Gaza Invasion and ‘Once and for All’ Thinking Are Wrong for Israel (Published 2023)

The Netanyahu government and President Biden have smarter options.

www.nytimes.com

 

[degenerate423]

 

[ballinsam23]

Opinion | Why a Gaza Invasion and ‘Once and for All’ Thinking Are Wrong for Israel (Published 2023)

The Netanyahu government and President Biden have smarter options.

www.nytimes.com

Read that article at work today. I agree with a lot of points.

The risks far outweigh the benefits of a ground invasion in Gaza.

I mentioned earlier, Bibi is a Trump and Putin on steroids. Idk if he can think strategically or rationally right now. So this "once and for all" approach is playing right into Iran's hands in the bigger picture.

 

[hoosier bad boy 11]

Can someone please explain, like I'm five, precisely what is happening?

 

[me love nutella]

But you see this is one of my main questions since this thread started. Why don’t the other Arab countries taking in Palestinians help them thrive? Most don’t even have their doors open despite having Arab communities.

You can’t believe that this is because of the US as well.

It really be your own that doesn’t even help you out.

The Palestinians have lost their Arab allies amid Arab regimes’ increasing authoritarianism and continued economic and political dependence on the US/West, the main supporters of Israel which is their settler-colonial project.

You know how refugees are treated in other countries and seen as planted "other" or "aliens". It is not like the West/U.S. treats refugees with high esteem unless their physical or intellectual labour can be exploited.

Well consider using the knowledge you gained and addressing peoples claims, instead of resorting to very academic sounding name calling.

well i can certainly empathize with your personal connection to the subject matter.
it's not enough to call people who disagrees with you racist anti-arab colonialists ect ect.

it's no different than the people who conflate anti-Zionism with antisemitism.

Again, this is where you need to look into using the appropriate language and frameworks. Look at power dynamics and how that fits certain narratives depending on the lens to uphold dominating systems. It is just the way the world was made by us to make meaning of our existence and justify our actions. The dominant narrative is usually the one of the oppressors.

I just do not call anyone who disagrees with me just because of no reason.

There were comments here insuniating depicting Israel as advanced and civilized while portraying Palestinians as primitive and backwards and steeped in stereotypes. I came across posts of this modern portrayal of Israel while displaying Muslim, Arab and Palestinian communities as oppressive and intolerant. This is the colonial mindset that uses racist and orientalist stereotypes to justify Western colonization. They provide the impression that Arabs and Muslims require 'saving' and that the West os 'freeing' the colonized because they are 'uncivilized'/primitive to rule themselves.

We are all implicitly biased.

 

[Brownstone]

Again; people out here making very strange arguments.

Bro what? This guy is a moron

 

[Brownstone]

The Palestinians have lost their Arab allies amid Arab regimes’ increasing authoritarianism and continued economic and political dependence on the US/West, the main supporters of Israel which is their settler-colonial project.

You know how refugees are treated in other countries and seen as planted "other" or "aliens". It is not like the West/U.S. treats refugees with high esteem unless their physical or intellectual labour can be exploited.

Again, this is where you need to look into using the appropriate language and frameworks. Look at power dynamics and how that fits certain narratives depending on the lens to uphold dominating systems. It is just the way the world was made by us to make meaning of our existence and justify our actions. The dominant narrative is usually the one of the oppressors.

I just do not call anyone who disagrees with me just because of no reason.

There were comments here insuniating depicting Israel as advanced and civilized while portraying Palestinians as primitive and backwards and steeped in stereotypes. I came across posts of this modern portrayal of Israel while displaying Muslim, Arab and Palestinian communities as oppressive and intolerant. This is the colonial mindset that uses racist and orientalist stereotypes to justify Western colonization. They provide the impression that Arabs and Muslims require 'saving' and that the West os 'freeing' the colonized because they are 'uncivilized'/primitive to rule themselves.

We are all implicitly biased.

You evaded the question though, Palestinians really are Jordanians, why hasn't Jordan stepped up?