Jay-Z "Success" Question

[nikembejetta]

Cats that hate on Jay will always play the "rhyme biting" card.

Cats that perpetually fellate Jay will always play the "paying homage to legends" card.

Both sides need to chill out & either enjoy the music or not. S I M P L E !

 

[kmstivers21]

I ain't even hatin on Jay? I love Jay.. I was just stating I'd never seen any posts discuss him biting Em's line? Sorry to cause such a terrorthrough NT..

 

[send one]

Jay was no were near the first, nor will he be the last rapper to do this.

What he's doing I would'nt exactly call it biting either. I consider biting when you take some lines and rearrange the words to make it sound original,or when you jack an entire/most of a verse from some no name rapper and pass it off as your own.

Its cool when an artist "borrows" a line or two to pay homage. And Jay is "biting" well known lines from well known artists, so its notlike he trying to pass it along as his own.

Its actually a smart move. When you listen to a Jay track for the first time, and he recites a familiar line that you know, you kinda feel a connection to thesong.

How much of Biggie's rhymes is gon' come out your fat lips?


That's the only problem I have with him. He quoted so many Biggie lines after he died, as almost to make a connection with his fans as a replacement.

 

[wushumast3r]

C'mon guys, there can't be a double standard here. What one person considers "biting" another person considers "paying homage" or"referencing". The whole concept of sampling is based upon this. I don't think anyone is going to discredit Jay's talent, so why would youthink he "bites" because of a lack of creativity? It's obvious that he's doing it as a reference to a particular artist, in this case,Eminem.

 

[visualmusic]

I can't believe this post is getting so out of hand. Personally, I noticed this after the first listen...what's the big deal? Rappers recite otherrappers lines all the time. If this is new to you than stop skimming through the music. As I say it, its kind of paying respect. Just my opinion on it though.

Why you so mad Moss? Lol. Jay has a countless amount of amazing verses and your stressing him biting a few lines? You can't keep a 10+ year career frombiting rappers alone..stop being so ignorant. It amazes me how people go out their way to hate.

 

[flatbushfiyah23]

^Exactly what I am saying!!

 

[free the chief]

The first time I heard the song, I thought to myself "Hey, that's one of my favorite Eminem lines...good catch Jay

".

 

[Lee And His Sneaks]

Originally Posted by 650

I don't think Jay "bites" with the intent of wanting others to think he wrote the line, but I think he assumes people know hip-hop's history and already know these lines.

Smartest thing said so far.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Originally Posted by Free The Chief

The first time I heard the song, I thought to myself "Hey, that's one of my favorite Eminem lines...good catch Jay

".

650 wrote:

---

I don't think Jay "bites" with the intent of wanting others to think he wrote the line, but I think he assumes people know hip-hop's history and already know these lines.

 

[flossb15]

MOSS & Bhudda : Okay so now that i've un-covered other artists that do the same thing that jay does - its all of a sudden WEAK...There goes Niketalkfor you

You say Eminem was just playing cause snoop was on the same song - but that still doesnt takeaway from him taking the lyrics...YOU MEAN TO TELL ME THAT IF JAYWAS ON A TRACK WITH PUN AND HE TOOK PUN LYRICS HE IT WOULD BE OK, AND YALL WOULDNT SAY NOTHING?

c'mon man yall make up silly rules to help your argument...then i name other rappers that do it - for ex Jadakiss and others then you say they dontcount...Okay here are some more Fabolous, Kanye West, Jeezy, Talib Kweli

I can find more, because plain and simple every rapper has stole in some form or fashion - I believe Jay has influenced more rappers than he has taken from

ONCE AGAIN XXL dedicates a whole page to Biting LINES EACH ISSUE - HOW COME NO ONE BRINGS THAT UP WITH OTHER ARTISTS? YOU WANNA KNOW WHY CAUSE JAY IS NUMERO 1, AND IF HE WASNT THIS WOULDNT EVEN BE AN ISSUE, BUT SINCE HE IS IN THE TOP SPOT, PEOPLE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO BRING HIM DOWN

its human nature

 

[all19mjs]

Originally Posted by firered18

"Get ya weight up/ Not ya hate up, Jiggaman is Diesel when I lift the 8 up"
word to....

That wasn't bitten

OMG I JUST CAUGHT ON TO THAT

 

[mr subliminals]

But if you were real hip-hops fans you would know right off the back where the line came from ...
It's not a line from an unknown rapper in which he's trying to hide it from ...

close the thread now

 

[s0lefunk]

Originally Posted by xBuddha Blessx

as I slip a leg into my flame suit and prepare to open Pandora's Box I ask you "Hasn't Hip-Hop stemmed from taking Drum Breaks from other people's songs?" Granted, the ppl most likely knew what songs they were from, its still on the same plane as this discussion. For the record I'm not just defending Jay-Z but ALL the rappers who recycled lines.

My boy made the same argument when defending Jigga for biting. Technically you're right but producers pay the OG artist/label for sampling. I also knew this dude doesn't hold the integrity for original lyrics that high. Im not saying all of dudes lyrics are bitten, Im saying it says a lot about his originality and creativity or lack there of. Also you can only recycle your own lines like you a radio verse on an album. Spitting lines from other rappers is not recycling it is stealing.

This is not hate for this dude I dont condone any rapper that does it. It just don't make sense to me you're so great yet you take from others you're suppose to learn from others. The shh irks me man and this shouldn't be defended cuz its wrong.

The way you was sounding at first, you made it seem like Jay wasnt capable of writing his own stuff. Again, it's HIS way of paying homage. (Say a BIGverse I'm biggin up my brother..I'm big enough to do it) All the bars are from LEGENDS. "True" or Elite Hip-Hop heads should hear the lineand be like "Hey. I remember that. Jay knows his shh". (I'm that thorough..) The cases he's bitten B.I.G. should be enough to dead thisargument. B.I.G. was his mentor, RIP. Of course he'd want to keep B.I.G.'s legacy alive the RIGHT WAY. Not by releasing a "Best Of.." withbs remixes with no consent from the man. Thats what I think is wrong. The ones sayin Jay-Z is a biter are like people who say talking to police = snitching.

I mean, I understand what you are saying but I'm saying its not a simple case of "biting". He's not doin it to pass as his own work. If hewas, he wouldn't have cited B.I.G. in "What More Can I Say". If I hear a rapper say "Yo, this line is from B.I.G." it would make mecurious enough to go back and find out what song it came from and thus forcing me to listen to the mans music. That in turn will most likely make me a B.I.G.fan.

Trust me, I've dealt with "biters". I recorded some tracks with a dude a while back and son was nice. I posted our collabs on another forum anda couple people were like "hey. i heard the verse before". Come to find dude bit all his verses from this soundclick rapper. I confront dude aboutit and he was like "Man.. they must of hacked my computer and stole my music.." Yea right.. how come your 16s is comin from dudes 80 bar freestyles?

My personal experiences and common sense tell me that what Jay's doin isnt biting. But, Jay aint payin me to defend him plus "he's Big enough todo it.." so I'm done. Enjoy your day everyone

 

[getmoneyforever]

Jay stole a couple people quotes BUT jay coldest lines came OUT OF HIS OWN MOUTH

 

[x Buddha Bless x]

All I wanted to see if yall would see my stance on this and where Im coming from when I argue this point it looks like for the most part yall get it. flossb15I dismissed ya 1st list not cuz I made up lil rules for each one it was becuz I dont hold any in the same lyrical atmosphere as Ol Man Jigga except for Eminemand in that example of "biting" I dont kno how you could take it serious when you kno the type of person Em is, it was clear he was making a joke heimitated Snoop just after dude spat and basically made fun of his intro. Yet if you do take it serious then fine I dont think Em should be doin it either becuzits wrong and it will confuse some like yaself who dont kno the difference. So Em shouldnt even be doing it so it wont even be questioned. I'll brake downwhy I didnt take ya list seriously

1. Fat joe - Dot write his own rhymes to begin with. so technically he shouldnt be in this disscussion please dont try to bring Diddy into this YOU SHUOULDKNOW THE DIFF and I am not saying its ok for them too but these dudes will never come out and say they are lyrical geniuses
2. Big pun - Again show me the lines that he bit and look at em, its still not right and if true I look at dude differently as a lyricist
3. Lil wayne -trash rapper its still not right but its been rumored he dont write his shh either
4. Jadakiss - I need a list of what rhymes n who and if he didnt make it clear who he was takin it from. If its that Fat Joe line save ya time
5. Remy ma - Its not right I dont think shes good anyway you a new artist spittin somebody else's rhymes? unacceptable
6. Young chris - trash rapper dont expect much, its still not right never thought much of him as a lyricist anyway, he also might think its ok cuz Jigga isdoin it
7. Beanie sigel - disappointing and I look at dude differently I'll need the lines that he bit(probably some Pac or DMX shh) he too might think its ok cuzJigga does it
8. Angie martinez - GTFOOHWTBS (it shouldnt need to be explained any further)
9. Lil kim - never wrote a rhyme in her life
10. Jim jones - trash rapper, its still wrong but when you suck that much n wanna get rich quick biting is ya last option, I've heard dude spit pac n Jiggan all other rappers lines it aint right but I never thought of dude as a rapper

You mentioned NaS and the line wasnt even like a Rakim line it was a Pun line where he said "like Pun said...." not to gettechnical but that is quoting a person. When Nters quote each other and add nothing further is he biting the next dudes comment? no he just agrees 100% andneeds not to add on to it. NaS aint even have to say it, that was more shoutin out Pun than anything and what made it so is cuz he said his name.

Kanye West dont write his rhymes so

I mean if you dont write ya own rhymes I have no respect for you as a lyricist. Therestimes I think Diddy got some hot lines I dont go off sayin dude is a beast I say he got some great ghost writers let me go look at the album credits to see whowrote em.
Jeezy is a trash rapper I expect something as tasteless as spittin somebody else's rhymes from a dude like him he is substance with no skill. It dont makeit right cuz Im sure theres a bunch of dudes in the south that might not know where he jackin lines from.

Now Fab Id like to see the lines, Fab tends to do this in his mainstream songs it doesnt make it right at all and Im not impressed with the way he has takenhis career when it comes to rhyming but Im a fan of dude and Ive come to terms with the 2 diff Fabs, album Fab n mixtape Fab. If these lines are just blatantjacking please post em. I might have to re-evalute him as rapper too.
This Talib claim Id have to see the lines I respect him as a top lyricists in the game dude is a technician with his rhymes and Id bring his integrity intoquestion if dude is jackin lines from the next artist n passin it off as his own. If he is doing that it aint right which is what Ive been saying.

Just cuz I may laugh off a rapper you name dont think I think its ok for them to do it, its not but its like how am I going to hold Lil Kim in the same regardas Jigga, thats a hugle lack of respect to him if I even place him on that lowly level. I've made it clear in numerous ways how this is wrong and why thisis wrong.

Also what Im saying is that if any prominent rapper wasnt doing this we wouldnt even have to discuss it. How come I never see yall goin around saying ohhh Lupeshould be spitting more of NaS' rhymes? You see how that shhh sound! also flossb15 some of these examples you or XXL are bringing up are confusing bitingand givin props to the next artist. When a rapper says somethin like "I like it young, fresh n green with no seeds in between like Biggie" that is aclear example of givin props to he citied the rapper whose lines he or she are using all Im asking for is if you gonna use somebody else's rhymes give somerecognition to the OG. I still dont think it should be overused as much as rappers do it but atleast show that respect. For the ppl sayin ppl should kno thelines well guess what most ppl dont n thats not the case with me. Its one thing to be surprised that its somebody else's rhymes I feel its moredisappointing when you kno who spit the line, I dont think it was a good catch I think the shh shouldnt have been done but thats me. Im not goin on a witchhunt for all rappers that bite this is just me not agreeing with it AT ALL. Jigga had spit some verse I think it was on the grammy family beat and dude gaveprops to mad ol skool acts withouot jackin their lines(name droppin their albums and group names) only thing most dudes aint even heard of em.

I already spoke my peace on this and Ive been done since the last page if you dont get where Im comin from read my posts again if you have to or hit me with apm we'll talk about it on aim. Shh should be clear with my stance, I dont understand the confusion or the bringing up of the same old points.

s0le FUNK I see what you saying and I respectfully disagree to an extent. Again tho if no rappers were doing this it wouldnt even be talked about.

 

[flossb15]

Bhudda - I agree for the most part with what your saying now that you have made it known that you don't feel its right... But anyways here is what I have

Pun used a jay quote - but since he said like jigga said... I won't count it...I think its on dream shatterer

Fabolous- started relaxin now that's what the F I call a chain reaction and there's a couple more from him

Jadakiss - money power respect album he used the biggie line I'm tryna see a billion all for the love of drug dealin

Beanie sigel - listen to the b coming or the solution - " criminal minded you've been blinded..." And not to mention all the jayz lines he uses

Talib kweli - check the beautiful struggle album , the song with common on there he took the line from the black album from jayz and flipped it " it truthtold ..."

Lil wayne - is becomming a trash rapper, but I can't deny him on both the dedications and the squad up mixtapes, oh and the 1st carter...anything else Iagree with

 

[free the chief]

Originally Posted by Mr Subliminals

But if you were real hip-hops fans you would know right off the back where the line came from ...
It's not a line from an unknown rapper in which he's trying to hide it from ...

close the thread now



I second that. I been tryna tell the HATERS this shh for YEEEEEAAAARS. The few times Jay slipped one past me, I felt bad for not knowing the OG line inthe first place

 

[x Buddha Bless x]

Ok yea I know what you sayin and I kno the songs Beans was wilin on the B. Coming and I caught all those lines, fab shhh was on Diamonds(that line gets bittenlike crazy and I dont kno why it was only hot the 1st time it was used), and Talib I caught but it aint register in my head like that.

None are excusable to me all those times they were used they were pretty weak to, this is why I dont understand it. If thats payin homage its fairly lame butif other ppl are into that fine.

 

[jr paperstacks]

Well all of Jay's memorable lines aren't bitten
That might be one of the stupidest statements anyone could make on this topic...

 

[free the chief]

^I guess I "get it" because I rap. It's pretty creative and respectful to me. Like... I can write my own bars until my fingers bleed. I'llNEVER need a ghost writer or help in general, but sometimes I like to sample lyrics just to pay homage and pay dues to the guys that made hip-hop dope to me. Idon't NEED to use a Jay-Z line to make my verse nice, and Jay damn sure soesn't need a Big line. It's just a nice touch...ESPECIALLY if that wasyour mans before he died. But in general, it's just a way to say "from one rapper to another, that line was dope to me". It's kinda like howus NTers quote eachother. Sometimes it's pointless to try to reword an idea or concept better than how it was when it was put out there before. You justgot to give it up to the guy that dropped that great line and say "Hey, it needed to be repeated"

 

[mickey moss]

Originally Posted by visualmusiC

I can't believe this post is getting so out of hand. Personally, I noticed this after the first listen...what's the big deal? Rappers recite other rappers lines all the time. If this is new to you than stop skimming through the music. As I say it, its kind of paying respect. Just my opinion on it though.

Why you so mad Moss? Lol. Jay has a countless amount of amazing verses and your stressing him biting a few lines? You can't keep a 10+ year career from biting rappers alone..stop being so ignorant. It amazes me how people go out their way to hate.

It amazes me how people go out of they way to defend Big Camel like if they sprung out of his nuts.

I mean I don't respect it.
We have to stop giving our beloved rappers passes forbiting...I'm a Jay fan...though It may not seem like it...because I'm a not blinded follower or sheep...I use logic and am always objective...I willcall something out and bring it to the light when a rapper does something wrong...

Jay-z is biter...point blank period.

Yes he is a great rapper, yes he has an extensive catalogue, yes he's been in the game for 13-14 years. Yes.

But question being asked at the beggining was "Did Jay-Z bite Eminem's line?"

Answer to that question is a resounding "YES!"

Is Jay-Z a biter...``YES!"

Because I'm actually impartial and speak facts...Jay-Z fans get aggy and feel attacked...

Now all that BS about "He's Paying Homage" "Thats his homey its ok to do that" "He's not really biting because we know wherethose lines came from"

Yeah you believe that stuff...while you laying on your back wanking off to your Jay-Z posters ala BFA....

Beans is also a biter...He bites from Biggie too..

and then I heard this song from Beans were he bites the whole song from Rakim...and I'm like$%+*? Did Beans even try to rap his own@%##?..

 

[benfranklinave]

Quick question, why is it that when a producer uses a music sample that was previously used a million times but flips it it isn't considered biting butwhen a rapper uses a line that 90% of hip-hop fans know it is considered biting.

Jay isn't considered a Great because he bite Biggie lines so why does this silly argument always come into play. For every line Jay bit he has 20 more ofhis own that overshadow any Biggie line he's ever used.

Yeah you believe that stuff...while you laying on your back wanking off to your Jay-Z posters ala BFA....
this coming for the dude that said

Mickey Moss wrote:
Jay-Z is 38 and has hideous facial features....His nose is a monstrosity, his teeth are crooked, he has the Morgan Freeman freckles, gargantuan lips that look deformed.....

I mean Jay got the whips, the cribs, the jewels, the chick and everything...but put it like this...

How can you look up to a dude if it wasn't for the cash and fame wouldn't be getting$+@% or brain?

---

 

[BaltimoreLove]

The ones sayin Jay-Z is a biter are like people who say talking to police = snitching.
jay z is a bitter... not all people that talk to police are snitches... just most..

 

[BaltimoreLove]

But question being asked at the beggining was "Did Jay-Z bite Eminem's line?"

Answer to that question is a resounding "YES!"

Is Jay-Z a biter...``YES!"

Because I'm actually impartial and speak facts...Jay-Z fans get aggy and feel attacked...

Now all that BS about "He's Paying Homage" "Thats his homey its ok to do that" "He's not really biting because we know where those lines came from"

Yeah you believe that stuff...while you laying on your back wanking off to your Jay-Z posters ala BFA....

Beans is also a biter...He bites from Biggie too..

and then I heard this song from Beans were he bites the whole song from Rakim...and I'm like$%+*? Did Beans even try to rap his own@%##?..

word... these jay fans are crazy... they defending him like johnny cockrin defended OJ

... we all know he did it but they wont admit it

 

[the wizard]

Maybe he bit it for a reason.

Who's a better example of what success does to you in the rap game then Eminem?