Jay-z wouldn't have had a career if Biggie and Pac didn't die - snoop

[antidope]

For the last six months, Ninjahood has been going extra hard with the slander in any thread that Jay-Z has been mentioned. For why though?

I also like the fact that if you didnt like Tupac your opinion is automatically invalid. Makes sense. "If you didnt like Tupac youre this and that and this is why we hate you."

This thread is continuing to provide the lulz.

 

[va757va]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.....

Reasonable Doubt has somehow become this mythical album WELL after it's release.

When it came out, it was a great album, but nothing that really stood out from the crowd.

As Jay's career blossomed, Reasonable Doubt has obviously become a milestone as it was the beginning of what's become....an epic career.

But at the time, it wasn't even ALL that.
 

and ive said this time and time again...it took illmatic until 00 to go platinum....

yall always running to discredit reasonable doubt as a 'modern day classic' only,by that logic illmatic must be too....

miss me with the IMPACT illmatic had...miss me with the BUZZ or a source column...bottom line is, Nas undisputed best album, one of hip hop classics came and went in 1994...and if it didnt, then why did it only do 500k ??

same year biggie went 5 times platinum...same year only built for cuban linx doubled nas sales...same years multiple west coast artists and bone thugs made nas look like a nobody...

took illmatic til 2000 to go platinum...so lets keep the fight fair...hold EVERYBODY else to the standards you hold jay to (nas and dmx) and jay comes out on top every single time....

 

[va757va]

in b4 'jay z stan'

in b4 'hes from va he doesnt know rap (lol,we that means)

born in the 80s so miss me with the 'he wasnt alive'

 

[putting in work]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.....


Reasonable Doubt has somehow become this mythical album WELL after it's release.


When it came out, it was a great album, but nothing that really stood out from the crowd.


As Jay's career blossomed, Reasonable Doubt has obviously become a milestone as it was the beginning of what's become....an epic career.


But at the time, it wasn't even ALL that.

 

and ive said this time and time again...it took illmatic until 00 to go platinum....


yall always running to discredit reasonable doubt as a 'modern day classic' only,by that logic illmatic must be too....

miss me with the IMPACT illmatic had...miss me with the BUZZ or a source column...bottom line is, Nas undisputed best album, one of hip hop classics came and went in 1994...and if it didnt, then why did it only do 500k ??


same year biggie went 5 times platinum...same year only built for cuban linx doubled nas sales...same years multiple west coast artists and bone thugs made nas look like a nobody...

took illmatic til 2000 to go platinum...so lets keep the fight fair...hold EVERYBODY else to the standards you hold jay to (nas and dmx) and jay comes out on top every single time....

in b4 'jay z stan'

in b4 'hes from va he doesnt know rap (lol,we that means)

born in the 80s so miss me with the 'he wasnt alive'

It may not have sold a lot (neither did reasonable doubt) but when it was released it had already garnered the respect as a classical masterpiece where as Reasonable Doubt wasn't considered **** homie.

Go listen to JayZ on youtube before Reasonable Doubt... dude was rapping really fast like Machine Gun Kelly then he was "influenced" by the like of NaS, Rae, Big, and switched his whole style up... then got the nerves to say he been the same since day 1... FOH.

Also, Big did a lot of numbers because he made records for the radio... Illmatic is straight raw NY street **** from that era.

OB4CL also had the benefit of having a radio friendly single and on top of that the backing of Wu and they were big already.

Illmatic didn't have any radio friendly records that would make you dance in the club or nothing for the women to listen to... it was straight raw material that he was allowed to put out on his own merit and that's why it is still considered the bible of rap because it was a real album that wasn't catered for the masses or the media... just the culture at that time... like how it's supposed to be.

Same way Public Enemy, KRS, and N.W.A. get praised because they were talking about their environment and the struggle coming up in an urban neighborhood. Of course they're going to have other artists that cater to the masses and of course they're going to sell more, but I guarantee you would never put MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice or whatever high selling artists you can think of above or ahead of the groups I just mentioned.

 

[harmito]

Yea ..

 

[shorty doo wop]

Another example

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Just for the lulz

 

[jthagreat]

Yea ..

i like this song. i guess im the only one...

For the last six months, Ninjahood has been going extra hard with the slander in any thread that Jay-Z has been mentioned. For why though?

6 months??!?!?!!?!? lol, you must have not been around when Jay took over DefJam....that Ninja Ninjahood was HEATED. lol

in those days, LL Cool J was the GUY around these parts.

YES the same guy who asks white folks to not judge him for his gold chains and he'll forget about slavery.

 

[ninjahood]

I've said this before and I'll say it again.....


Reasonable Doubt has somehow become this mythical album WELL after it's release.


When it came out, it was a great album, but nothing that really stood out from the crowd.


As Jay's career blossomed, Reasonable Doubt has obviously become a milestone as it was the beginning of what's become....an epic career.


But at the time, it wasn't even ALL that.

 

and ive said this time and time again...it took illmatic until 00 to go platinum....


yall always running to discredit reasonable doubt as a 'modern day classic' only,by that logic illmatic must be too....

miss me with the IMPACT illmatic had...miss me with the BUZZ or a source column...bottom line is, Nas undisputed best album, one of hip hop classics came and went in 1994...and if it didnt, then why did it only do 500k ??


same year biggie went 5 times platinum...same year only built for cuban linx doubled nas sales...same years multiple west coast artists and bone thugs made nas look like a nobody...

took illmatic til 2000 to go platinum...so lets keep the fight fair...hold EVERYBODY else to the standards you hold jay to (nas and dmx) and jay comes out on top every single time....

Guess what? 1996 was Nas making good on selling

More with it was written, another classic.

 

[ninjahood]

This this is now "lets blame Ninjahood cuz we cant

Debunk illphillip's correct assessment"

Ya Cant change history folks..jay-Z opening up

For ma$e in 1997

 

[va757va]

i like this song. i guess im the only one...
6 months??!?!?!!?!? lol, you must have not been around when Jay took over DefJam....that Ninja Ninjahood was HEATED. lol

in those days, LL Cool J was the GUY around these parts.

YES the same guy who asks white folks to not judge him for his gold chains and he'll forget about slavery.

'you forget about my gold chains ill forgive the steel chains' 

  

back to hov...why does him switching his style bother yall so much??  it was obviously the right move,nobody has attained his level of success EVER in rap, not hypothetical if if if life..but real life rap he laid the blueprint..he showed yall how to do this son..

it seems crazy to me to think jay wouldnt be a major player if big was around..especially with bigs endorsement jay was def on the track to success..dude would have been on  regardless...probably what nas is now, but who can tell, as much as yall hate to admit jays business prowess ties DIRECTLY into his success as a rapper..cant have one without the other jay came in the game on a business plan no matter the circumstances..

 

[chippedtoothsmile]

Jay z *In my lifetime vol 1 * > anything PAC ever done in he's career . PAC is trash

Lololol! Sons gotta be trollin

 

[Maximus Meridius]

These Jay-Z threads are just like Kobe threads in the sports forum.


Guaranteed to go 15 pages of people saying the same **** over and over.

 

[marco23]

people need to shut up with that "if pac was still alive x would not have a career" Pac was good but people act like he's jesus, he's overrated because he's dead. i love biggie but i'm pretty sure he would have fallen off if he was still alive. people want to be jay-z and he's still alive. 

 at the fact that Snoop is commenting on someone's career, he stopped being relevant years ago. Now he has to make music with Miley Cyrus and Katy Perry 

 

[rex ryan]

These Jay-Z threads are just like Kobe threads in the sports forum.


Guaranteed to go 15 pages of people saying the same **** over and over.

Most jay-z fans remind me of the Kobe and Lebron groupies the pollute the sports and training section on here.

Bunch of revisionist history type dudes with one track opinions.

 

[illphillip]

and ive said this time and time again...it took illmatic until 00 to go platinum....


yall always running to discredit reasonable doubt as a 'modern day classic' only,by that logic illmatic must be too....

miss me with the IMPACT illmatic had...miss me with the BUZZ or a source column...bottom line is, Nas undisputed best album, one of hip hop classics came and went in 1994...and if it didnt, then why did it only do 500k ??


same year biggie went 5 times platinum...same year only built for cuban linx doubled nas sales...same years multiple west coast artists and bone thugs made nas look like a nobody...

took illmatic til 2000 to go platinum...so lets keep the fight fair...hold EVERYBODY else to the standards you hold jay to (nas and dmx) and jay comes out on top every single time....

Yet nothing I said has anything to do with sales minus the Capital Pun./Reasonable Doubt comparison and that was for reference.

We can't "miss you" with that nonsense you're spewing because it's so off base.

This is a thread about Jay Z. You just started obsessing about Nas and Illmatic. Why?

If we're talking about Reasonable Doubt, it in no way, shape or form made the splash that Illmatic did at the time. And a lot of that may have to do with what I've said repeatedly that you characters can't get through your head.

People already knew who Jay was. They knew him as an OK MC at best. He was coming out of a hole. Where Nas did 1 feature (Live At the BBQ), one song (Halftime) and MURDERED both.

So of course everyone was hyped for his album. Dude was being heralded as the 2nd coming. Jay, not so much.

Again, RD was a great album, but to compare the 2 in terms of how they were received at the time is ignorant in the sense that it is sorely lacking awareness.

We're talking about the response at the time. Jay's status at the time. If you really think he was outshining X, Nas, Pun like THAT, you're way off base. If what Ninja said about X headlining Jay's own tour is true, how can you refute that?

 

[Baby Face Nelson]

My dislike for Jay-Z stems from how he treated people from the Roc to get to the top, and cut ties with everyone single one (except Kayne because he could benefit the most from his production). Just the way he handled the sale of the Roc behind Dame's back, the shunning of Memphis Bleek, Young Gunz, and Dipset. Beans had to be the muscle of the group protecting Ye and Jay and Jay couldn't even visit the homie when he was incarnated. None of those artists could reach out to Jay right now for a feature, and even if they did he wouldn't entertain the offer.

Because me thinking he is just a piece of **** as a human being, the question couldn't be would Jay be here if Big didn't die, it should be how much bigger would he be today if Big was alive. Imagine if that "Commission" album dropped (minus Diddy & Charli Baltimore features) that would of been hope for Hip-Hop. Imagine all of Jay-z business ventures outside of rap having Biggie co-signing also. Imagine how crazy a Jay-z and Biggie concert for the opening of the Barclays Center in Brooklyn. I don't think it's fair just to single Jay out because maybe Nelly, Eminem, and 50 wouldn't of sold the same amount of records if Big was alive.

 

[shorty doo wop]

back to hov...why does him switching his style bother yall so much??  it was obviously the right move,nobody has attained his level of success EVER in rap, not hypothetical if if if life..but real life rap he laid the blueprint..he showed yall how to do this son..

it seems crazy to me to think jay wouldnt be a major player if big was around..especially with bigs endorsement jay was def on the track to success..dude would have been on  regardless...probably what nas is now, but who can tell, as much as yall hate to admit jays business prowess ties DIRECTLY into his success as a rapper..cant have one without the other jay came in the game on a business plan no matter the circumstances..

if he showed us how to do it why did he change his flow to something that was obviously influenced by his peers?

 

[antidope]

These Jay-Z threads are just like Kobe threads in the sports forum.

Guaranteed to go 15 pages of people saying the same **** over and over.

Most jay-z fans remind me of the Kobe and Lebron groupies the pollute the sports and training section on here.

Bunch of revisionist history type dudes with one track opinions.

Thats what this entire thread is and the Music forum in general for that matter. We could easily say the same about all the Jay-Z detractors in this thread.

 

[illphillip]

This whole "detractor" thing is straight cornball status.

I am a Jay Z fan. Period.

But some of you are so irrational with your obsession with dude that you can't see his flaws, his low points etc.

And they exist. He's human. They exist for everyone.

I'd say he's a Top5 all time MC. Because I don't think he's the "GOAT" and because I can point out that his career did not start out at the level of greatness that he is now, I'm a "detractor"?

Ridiculous.

 

[antidope]

Not trying to pull this card but where did I say that I was referring to you? I was mainly talking about Ninjahood and his obvious hate for dude, maybe I should have just said his name.

I dont think anyone would say that his career started out at a high level, that just isnt true. But IMO from Reasonable doubt ongoing its been nothing but A1. Hes the GOAT and its no even close in my book, but its not the same for others and thats ok. 

 

[Maximus Meridius]

These Jay-Z threads are just like Kobe threads in the sports forum.


Guaranteed to go 15 pages of people saying the same **** over and over.

Most jay-z fans remind me of the Kobe and Lebron groupies the pollute the sports and training section on here.

Bunch of revisionist history type dudes with one track opinions.

That applies to both sides. It's dudes in here saying "Oh snoop is just jealous, he's irrelevant, Reasonable Doubt >>>>> Pac's catalog" then the very next post will be somebody like ninja saying "most of Jay's albums are meh"


There's no middle ground at all when it comes to Jay.

Hes the GOAT and its no even close in my book

Another example. And I do think Jay is the best ever but to say it's not close is crazy.

 

[ninjahood]

This whole "detractor" thing is straight cornball status.

I am a Jay Z fan. Period.

But some of you are so irrational with your obsession with dude that you can't see his flaws, his low points etc.

And they exist. He's human. They exist for everyone.

I'd say he's a Top5 all time MC. Because I don't think he's the "GOAT" and because I can point out that his career did not start out at the level of greatness that he is now, I'm a "detractor"?

Ridiculous.

Now da stans sayin i "hate" Jay-Z cuz they wont admit he wasnt anywhere NEAR that ***** in NYC

Till da lanes cleared for him...... Straight hova shoe

Shine boys up in here

 

[antidope]

Thats exactly why I said it, or maybe because you've run into any thread where his name is mentioned saying the same things over and over and over. We get it already, we heard you the first 9 times. The amount of passion you have for this subject is astounding. Seriously why does it matter to you so much? Enlighten me.

 

[chippedtoothsmile]

maybe because you've run into any thread where his name is mentioned saying the same things over and over and over.

Strike with the iron knee

 

[00david00]

For the last six months, Ninjahood has been going extra hard with the slander in any thread that Jay-Z has been mentioned. For why though?

I also like the fact that if you didnt like Tupac your opinion is automatically invalid. Makes sense. "If you didnt like Tupac youre this and that and this is why we hate you."

This thread is continuing to provide the lulz.

Really? You really think that's how it went in the thread?

dudes in here talking about
1. every pac album had filler
2. reasonable doubt ***** on every single pac album AND IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE (which you quoted and said you AGREE WITH THIS, c'mon son)
3. In my lifetime vol 1 >better than anything pac released

Oh but ninja going too hard with the jay slander

It's more like if you don't ride Jay and say he was runnin rap since he started rappin then you're a hater