Jay-z wouldn't have had a career if Biggie and Pac didn't die - snoop

[antidope]

maybe because you've run into any thread where his name is mentioned saying the same things over and over and over.

Strike with the iron knee

Ok? Quoting that one section of my post is how things get taken out of context, which you clearly did.

Ninja put hate in quotes as if I had no basis for saying such. It would be the same as if I carried on as if I'm not a huge fan of the guy. I'm all the threads that pertain to him for a reason, just like Ninjahood is.

 

[antidope]

For the last six months, Ninjahood has been going extra hard with the slander in any thread that Jay-Z has been mentioned. For why though?

I also like the fact that if you didnt like Tupac your opinion is automatically invalid. Makes sense. "If you didnt like Tupac youre this and that and this is why we hate you."

This thread is continuing to provide the lulz.

Really? You really think that's how it went in the thread?

dudes in here talking about
1. every pac album had filler
2. reasonable doubt ***** on every single pac album AND IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE 

 (which you quoted and said you AGREE WITH THIS, c'mon son)
3. In my lifetime vol 1 >better than anything pac released

Oh but ninja going too hard with the jay slander 

It's more like if you don't ride Jay and say he was runnin rap since he started rappin then you're a hater

1. Is it a crime to say an album has filler? Its more outlandish to say that an album doesnt have any. Most albums have filler, Jay-Z has albums that have filler.

2.Two days later and I still agree with it.

3. Agree with this too.

As I said earlier I dont like Tupac at all, never have never will. Didnt like him when he was alive I sure as hell wont alter my opinion of him because hes dead. But you cant say such things about the almighty Tupac because...

Kiddies here saying that every Pac album is trash is like kids wearing Jordans but then say thay LeBron or Kobe is better. That right there is why we hate and have no respect for the young group

This is one of the reasons why I stopped actively participating in the Jay-Z threads. My word is already deemed invalid from the get-go because I'm a stan according to many, but it gets worse whenever other artists are involved. The double standard when it comes to this topic is large. If you say something about Nas, Big, Pac, etc etc that isnt positive, best believe it will be met with numerous negative responses and people demanding your hip hop pass, but outlandish negative comments about Jay-Z arent even challenged by many; but rather theyre celebrated. There is no middle ground in these conversations ever and theyre by and large pointless. No ones ever cordial and if I had to explain what condescension was to someone who didnt know, I would reference one of these threads.

 

[ninjahood]

and ive said this time and time again...it took illmatic until 00 to go platinum....


yall always running to discredit reasonable doubt as a 'modern day classic' only,by that logic illmatic must be too....

miss me with the IMPACT illmatic had...miss me with the BUZZ or a source column...bottom line is, Nas undisputed best album, one of hip hop classics came and went in 1994...and if it didnt, then why did it only do 500k ??


same year biggie went 5 times platinum...same year only built for cuban linx doubled nas sales...same years multiple west coast artists and bone thugs made nas look like a nobody...

took illmatic til 2000 to go platinum...so lets keep the fight fair...hold EVERYBODY else to the standards you hold jay to (nas and dmx) and jay comes out on top every single time....

Yet nothing I said has anything to do with sales minus the Capital Pun./Reasonable Doubt comparison and that was for reference.

We can't "miss you" with that nonsense you're spewing because it's so off base.

This is a thread about Jay Z. You just started obsessing about Nas and Illmatic. Why?

If we're talking about Reasonable Doubt, it in no way, shape or form made the splash that Illmatic did at the time. And a lot of that may have to do with what I've said repeatedly that you characters can't get through your head.

People already knew who Jay was. They knew him as an OK MC at best. He was coming out of a hole. Where Nas did 1 feature (Live At the BBQ), one song (Halftime) and MURDERED both.

So of course everyone was hyped for his album. Dude was being heralded as the 2nd coming. Jay, not so much.

Again, RD was a great album, but to compare the 2 in terms of how they were received at the time is ignorant in the sense that it is sorely lacking awareness.

We're talking about the response at the time. Jay's status at the time. If you really think he was outshining X, Nas, Pun like THAT, you're way off base. If what Ninja said about X headlining Jay's own tour is true, how can you refute that?

This thread has broken down to jay stans denying

& rewritting history ...

Jay-Z aint even get a cover on da source till late 98

When da source mattered. You cant dispute facts.

 

[Baby Face Nelson]

As I said earlier I dont like Tupac at all, never have never will. Didnt like him when he was alive I sure as hell wont alter my opinion of him because hes dead. But you cant say such things about the almighty Tupac because...

This is one of the reasons why I stopped actively participating in the Jay-Z threads. My word is already deemed invalid from the get-go because I'm a stan according to many, but it gets worse whenever other artists are involved. The double standard when it comes to this topic is large. If you say something about Nas, Big, Pac, etc etc that isnt positive, best believe it will be met with numerous negative responses and people demanding your hip hop pass, but outlandish negative comments about Jay-Z arent even challenged by many; but rather theyre celebrated. There is no middle ground in these conversations ever and theyre by and large pointless. No ones ever cordial and if I had to explain what condescension was to someone who didnt know, I would reference one of these threads.

      This is why no one takes you seriously. Feel free think none of Pac's albums compare to Jay's but you better be ready to defend it when people ask. But what do you do, you turn around and point out the reason you said that is because you didn't like the dude..??? You are talking to people here that are fans of the Hip-Hop genre and believe it or not Jay not make all of Hip-Hop. I am not telling you that you're right or wrong but you have to come up with a better argument than " I don't like Tupac at all, never have never will."

 

[antidope]

Why do you think I dont like the dude? Seriously, what else could I have been alluding to there? I dont like the dude because I think his music sucks. If thats what I needed to say then there I said it, I thought it was obvious. Couldnt care less about Tupac the "activist", mind molder, or whatever else people want to label him, IMO he was not a good rapper at all.

I didnt say anything to this guy did I? 

Wow the blasphemy on PAC
Roc la familia=trash
Blueprint 2 = trash
In my life time vol 3. = trash
PAC me against the world and 2pacolypse alone kill all of jayz catalog
Yeah I said it and I am a huge jayz fan
But PAC was not a lyricist but a story teller, a activist, he was so much more then jay has ever been

Why? Because thats his opinion and nothing I can do or say will change it, nor will anything that is said in this thread change anyones mind about everything. I have gone into detail as to why I dont like Tupac on here before, thats how I know that I will end up getting flamed to death for it, and no ones opinion will change about anything. I've gone into why Jay-Z is the best to ever do it more times than I can even recall on here also; and nothing changes. 

 

[00david00]

1. Is it a crime to say an album has filler? Its more outlandish to say that an album doesnt have any. Most albums have filler, Jay-Z has albums that have filler.
2.Two days later and I still agree with it.
3. Agree with this too.

As I said earlier I dont like Tupac at all, never have never will. Didnt like him when he was alive I sure as hell wont alter my opinion of him because hes dead. But you cant say such things about the almighty Tupac because...

1. Fair enough, if you say that blueprint and reasonable doubt and every other jay album as well as most other hip hop classics then I'll accept. If you say that Jay has albums with NO filler while all of Pacs albums have filler it's outlandish
2. since you agree, you can see that it's not the same. You can say you don't like pac, but to say that even pacs best work is not even close to reasonable doubt...
3. ...

I'm not here to convince you to like pac or that pacs albums are better than Jays, but when you make claims that even Pacs best works aren't close to Jays albums expect rebuttal

fact remains, jay wasn't runnin **** at the time

 

[antidope]

1. Is it a crime to say an album has filler? Its more outlandish to say that an album doesnt have any. Most albums have filler, Jay-Z has albums that have filler.
2.Two days later and I still agree with it.
3. Agree with this too.

As I said earlier I dont like Tupac at all, never have never will. Didnt like him when he was alive I sure as hell wont alter my opinion of him because hes dead. But you cant say such things about the almighty Tupac because...

1. Fair enough, if you say that blueprint and reasonable doubt and every other jay album as well as most other hip hop classics then I'll accept. If you say that Jay has albums with NO filler while all of Pacs albums have filler it's outlandish
2. since you agree, you can see that it's not the same. You can say you don't like pac, but to say that even pacs best work is not even close to reasonable doubt...
3. ...

I'm not here to convince you to like pac or that pacs albums are better than Jays, but when you make claims that even Pacs best works aren't close to Jays albums expect rebuttal

fact remains, jay wasn't runnin **** at the time

1. Cant agree to that cause he does in fact have albums with no filler. I didnt say that Tupacs albums have filler, I wouldnt know I much about that being as how I havent listened to dude in more than a decade

2. They arnet. As mentioned above I dont think he was good at all, so yeah.

I know you're not, I just know how this thread is going to go hence why I didnt want to get into it. You cant say Tupac isnt nice and not have people flip their wig which is why I didnt really want to get into it in the first place. I brought it upon myself by even quoting that post. I should have just left well enough alone.

 

[tommyicerocking]

how can anyone discuss hip-hop with a user with a 2 Chainz album cover avy 

 FOH

 

[00david00]

how can anyone discuss hip-hop with a user with a 2 Chainz album cover avy 

 FOH

I alway liked that cover even if the albums sucked, I don't need to put use my avy and username to prove anything
FOH

 

[ninjahood]

i still can't believe me against da world had attempted slander on it...da thought of that is ridiculous

 

[deuce king]

I forgot how much ninjahood likes LL **** J.  If Jay Z did pull LL's video budget when he was President of Def Jam, maybe it was a good thing as LL's probably would have just been tap dancing for white people in those new videos.  So for that, I say if Jay Z didn't give LL any money for videos during his tenure as President, then he did us all a favor and maybe saw something early on in LL that is just being discovered now.  I guess sooner or later LL had to reveal the house ***** in him one way or another, maybe that's why ninjahood is a fan of his.  

Jay-Z aint even get a cover on da source till late 98

.........and now he's on every cover imaginable champ, what's your point??

 

[MajinZuub]

The delusion in here

 

[meek meals]

 LL **** J.

 

[ninjahood]

The delusion in here

you can see it, duece king on a LL cool J tangent doing anything to save face

reasonable doubt better then its dark and hell is hot? lulz

might as well say vol.1 is better then get rich or die tryin' so we can just sew this thread up right

 

[killa07]

Why do you think I dont like the dude? Seriously, what else could I have been alluding to there? I dont like the dude because I think his music sucks. If thats what I needed to say then there I said it, I thought it was obvious. Couldnt care less about Tupac the "activist", mind molder, or whatever else people want to label him, IMO he was not a good rapper at all.

I didnt say anything to this guy did I? 



Why? Because thats his opinion and nothing I can do or say will change it, nor will anything that is said in this thread change anyones mind about everything. I have gone into detail as to why I dont like Tupac on here before, thats how I know that I will end up getting flamed to death for it, and no ones opinion will change about anything. I've gone into why Jay-Z is the best to ever do it more times than I can even recall on here also; and nothing changes. 

I am going to keep it a hunnait your reasoning is crazy my dude.. I am a huge jayz fan but he is not touching anything PAC did alive or dead,
Point, blank, period.
It's cool you don't like PAC, but his music trends ended anything jay has ever done
Examples:
Dear momma
Brenda's got a baby
Keep your head up
Every uckin song on me against the world
7 day theory( keep ya head, white mans world)
2 pacolypse
You gon learn today my dude
I can count on maybe two hands were jayz made real quality music for the masses but nobody ever lists or even mentions as a favorite jayz song
Regrets
Meet the parents
Renegades(even though his verse was really good and he said some good ish, em killed him)
Some how some way(beans and scarface killed him on his own record again)
Ignorant ish from American gangster( nas killed hom on his own ish)
Guns and roses
You can call me a PAC Stan until I die because everything he talked about( even him being a walking contradiction) was about the internal struggles with your demons not only as a man but a BLACK MAN at that and everything he talks about is still relevant today.
Jayz is great business man and a killer lyricist and I will always say he is my top 5
But that ninja will never touch what PAC did for alot of minority males growing up in that period of crack, war, discrimination, racial tension, etc...
All honesty I don't think PAC would even be rapping today if he was alive
For me and only me nobody has made me feel the story telling and plight of my people until I heard section 80 by k.dot and Friday night lights like j.cole
The heart and soul of hip hop has been missing for awhile
Hell even nas album was on some better ish then blueprint 3 and watch the throne put together
It's okay to have that "turnt up" type of music but its the same dribble
I mean even " open letter" is good track but its the same " hawaiian Sophie fame" ish which at this point in my life I am tired of hearing
Hell kanye was supposed to keep that type of story telling going for the masses but look what happened to him
He went from "Jesus walks,spaceship" to " n*ggas I n Paris"
Done with rant because your debate isn't even kill
It's like talking to a person who can't see both sides of the arguments
You don't have to like PAC or BIG but denying their contributions is either just pure ignorance or age
Edit: I forgot two more songs jay did that made my head and heart feel something
New day and murder to excellence but still was featured by someone else

 

[deuce king]

you can see it, duece king on a LL cool J tangent doing anything to save face

Right now champ, this thread is not about LL **** J and his tap dancing habits, or even why you yourself currently might condone his tap dancing habits.  Although at some point in time I am going to need you to denounce him sooner rather than later, but we can get to that at another time. 

reasonable doubt better then its dark and hell is hot? lulz

To me, it is.  If you think otherwise more power to you.  Again, I like X alot but he ran out of gas real fast.  With that being said, as I stated many times earlier, it's not about how fast you start out of the gate but how you finish the race.  Unfortunately X didn't finish the race, or better yet when he got near the end and saw the white line................

 

[ninjahood]

reasonable doubt better then its dark and hell is hot? lulz

To me, it is.  If you think otherwise more power to you.  Again, I like X alot but he ran out of gas real fast.  With that being said, as I stated many times earlier, it's not about how fast you start out of the gate but how you finish the race.  Unfortunately X didn't finish the race, or better yet when he got near the end and saw the white line................

all that **** is irrelevant to da fact that its dark and hell is hot is track for track, better then reasonable doubt.

its like telling kobe stans that mcgrady was a BETTER offensive when he was with da orlando magic word to his scoring titles, but they dont wanna

hear that either

 

[deuce king]

all that **** is irrelevant to da fact that its dark and hell is hot is track for track, better then reasonable doubt.

Again, if you like It's Dark and Hell is Hot more than Reasonable Doubt then more power to you and others.  However, nothing worse than someone who's keeps looking back, gotta look and move forward champ otherwise you won't know where your going or where you should go (life lessons).  It's not about living in the past, cause if you keep doing that you'll think the Bulls vs. the Suns in the NBA championship was exactly 10 years ago.  Gotta live for the moment and better yet the future my man.  

 

[knowledgebones72]

This thread has completely fallen apart.

Snoop was right, and that's a completely nonbiased opinion, but that's not even what anyone is talking about anymore in this thread.

 

[antidope]

 LL **** J.

 It's not about living in the past, cause if you keep doing that you'll think the Bulls vs. the Suns in the NBA championship was exactly 10 years ago.  Gotta live for the moment and better yet the future my man.  

 

[ninjahood]

This thread has completely fallen apart.

Snoop was right, and that's a completely nonbiased opinion, but that's not even what anyone is talking about anymore in this thread.

A simple "yep snoop is right" would've been too easy

For some cats up in here

 

[deuce king]

This thread has completely fallen apart.

Snoop was right, and that's a completely nonbiased opinion, but that's not even what anyone is talking about anymore in this thread.

A simple "yep snoop is right" would've been too easy

For some cats up in here

Again, unless Snoop or anyone else in here is physic, or can predict the future ALL the time for any and all events, then neither Snoop or anybody in here is right with making a claim such as that.  

 

[ninjahood]

This thread has completely fallen apart.


Snoop was right, and that's a completely nonbiased opinion, but that's not even what anyone is talking about anymore in this thread.

A simple "yep snoop is right" would've been too easy


For some cats up in here

Again, unless Snoop or anyone else in here is physic, or can predict the future ALL the time for any and all events, then neither Snoop or anybody in here is right with making a claim such as that.  

Thats exactly what was going on in 96 when everyone was alive though.

 

[deuce king]

This thread has completely fallen apart.


Snoop was right, and that's a completely nonbiased opinion, but that's not even what anyone is talking about anymore in this thread.

A simple "yep snoop is right" would've been too easy


For some cats up in here

Again, unless Snoop or anyone else in here is physic, or can predict the future ALL the time for any and all events, then neither Snoop or anybody in here is right with making a claim such as that.  

Thats exactly what was going on in 96 when everyone was alive though.

.............and that still doesn't mean that would have kept on going.  Don't you get that champ, rappers do fall off, no matter how much they are on top or are running the game at the time.  To think Pac and Biggie would or wouldn't have fallen off without it actually being PROVEN due to their untimely death is foolish for Snoop, you or anyone else in here that has that mindset.    

 

[ninjahood]

Goes both ways, who's to say jay-z would've got

ANY hot production thrown his way while biggie

& pac was gobblin up everything..like it or not snoop's

Point is STRAIGHT valid.