Jay-z wouldn't have had a career if Biggie and Pac didn't die - snoop

tyisny said:
Like you just said it your from NC regardless of if you think ether was better than takeover.... Jay just came off what many consider his best work with Blueprint, Had his Crew Running radio (literally shutting down the station and riding on ******) by the time Blueprint dropped Jay was crowned.

stillmatic was great in it's own right but Nas ain't have the impact jay had on rap after that period. and if ya'll wanna talk made up scenario's Nas would have been Raekwon/Ghost status if That hov battle ain't happen..... so again what we talkin bout?
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now you are talking out your ***.

Are you one of the guys who think Nas fell off after Illmatic or do you think he lost his skills? Nas was still dope, the thing that was hurting him was the fact he was making more mainstream songs during 96-20. He still had the ill lyrics and was still a top 10 rapper, tell me who was better or hotter than Nas during the time, I can only name a hand ful....Eminem, DMX, Dr.Dre, Jay-Z off the top of my hand. 

I Am... (Nas 3rd LP) was actually supposed to be a 2 Disc Album, but due to a lot of his tracks being leaked, the record company decided to release just 14 songs off I Am... instead of the 2 Disc they had planned. They later decided they wanted to release the other songs that weren't released on the first LP or leaked as Nastradamus his 4th LP.
 
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gllahone84 said:
Not with Jada making waves in the late 90's early 2000's. 

When they battled on the R Kelly remix joint that let me know Jada was coming,
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We're all STILL waiting on Jada to arrive champ.  That, as well as that "hot summer" by Cam.
 
TommyIceRocking said:
now you are talking out your ***.

Are you one of the guys who think Nas fell off after Illmatic or do you think he lost his skills? Nas was still dope, the thing that was hurting him was the fact he was making more mainstream songs during 96-20. He still had the ill lyrics and was still a top 10 rapper, tell me who was better or hotter than Nas during the time, I can only name a hand ful....Eminem, DMX, Dr.Dre, Jay-Z off the top of my hand. 

I Am... (Nas 3rd LP) was actually supposed to be a 2 Disc Album, but due to a lot of his tracks being leaked, the record company decided to release just 14 songs off I Am... instead of the 2 Disc they had planned. They later decided they wanted to release the other songs that weren't released on the first LP or leaked as Nastradamus his 4th LP.
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I never said he wouldn't make good music... his career the past two years prior to Ether his career was on decline as far as attention and relevancy was concerned. That battle wit jay resurrected his career in the mainstream world and kind of gave him motivation again.
 
gllahone84 said:
Bruh he did not have rap from 98 on...not in NY. 

Not with Jada making waves in the late 90's early 2000's. 

When they battled on the R Kelly remix joint that let me know Jada was coming, and Jay was never the clear best, but now he had not only Nas as a contender but Kiss was right at his neck. 

Stillmatic took whatever crown Jay had at that time period. This guy was in the darkest point of his career in late 01-02 due to that Best of Both Worlds flop. If he still had NY during that run...
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Jada was NEVER ****** with Hov.... Both had bars, Jada couldn't make hits like Jay & he damn sure couldn't configure albums like Jay so nah he was never a threat for the crown.

The only comp Jay had since Big died was Nas & X before he started to bug out.

Stillmatic took whatever crown Jay had at that time period. This guy was in the darkest point of his career in late 01-02 due to that Best of Both Worlds flop.
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He dropped arguably his best album... Changed the ENTIRE sound of hip-hop with that album, had B.Siegel & Bleek all over the radio. The next year he dropped BP2 and released the rest of the roc roster upon the industry.

i'm not gonna argue your opinion if you think stillmatic was better than Blueprint that's cool its YOUR opinion. But to argue that it was bigger or somehow made the same impact as Blueprint is laughable.
 
tyisny said:
TommyIceRocking said:
now you are talking out your ***.

Are you one of the guys who think Nas fell off after Illmatic or do you think he lost his skills? Nas was still dope, the thing that was hurting him was the fact he was making more mainstream songs during 96-20. He still had the ill lyrics and was still a top 10 rapper, tell me who was better or hotter than Nas during the time, I can only name a hand ful....Eminem, DMX, Dr.Dre, Jay-Z off the top of my hand. 

I Am... (Nas 3rd LP) was actually supposed to be a 2 Disc Album, but due to a lot of his tracks being leaked, the record company decided to release just 14 songs off I Am... instead of the 2 Disc they had planned. They later decided they wanted to release the other songs that weren't released on the first LP or leaked as Nastradamus his 4th LP.
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I never said he wouldn't make good music... his career the past two years prior to Ether his career was on decline as far as attention and relevancy was concerned. That battle wit jay resurrected his career in the mainstream world and kind of gave him motivation again.
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Dude wasnt even making music tho his moms was sick so he was tending to her

The way you stating his career was on decline you make it seem like he dropped a flop or something he didnt drop ANYTHING for 2 years
 
Shorty Doo Wop said:
Dude wasnt even making music tho his moms was sick so he was tending to her

The way you stating his career was on decline you make it seem like he dropped a flop or something he didnt drop ANYTHING for 2 years
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And your point is what? i said his career was on decline not his skill set.

If someone isn't doing music for two years especially in rap that a hit to your career. Add that to the fact that his last projects before that hiatus were Nastrodamus & that HORRIBLE QB project he headlined. if that isn't a downward spiral i don't know what is.
 
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tyisny said:
I never said he wouldn't make good music... his career the past two years prior to Ether his career was on decline as far as attention and relevancy was concerned. That battle wit jay resurrected his career in the mainstream world and kind of gave him motivation again.
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One could say the same about Jay.

After Vol.2 he lost a little steam with Vol.3 and The Dynasty. One could argue that battle lit a fire under Jays *** that made him make The Blueprint.

It benefitted both of them.

]Fam now your just talking to talk.... After Big died it was a scramble for who was gonna take that Crown you had Nas still Killin, X was MURDERING things, and Jay... Vol 2 dropped and the crown was his from 98 on it ain't ever been in question who runs this city. The People damn sure did give him the crown no questions asked YOU stop lying to out of towners
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98? We talking about the same 98 when X dropped 2 MASSIVE albums and had not only the city, but the whole country in a headlock?

In 98 a lot of ppl still had a bad taste in their mouths with Jay from Vol.1 and the way he blatantly tried to jack his "man's" lane (see Sunshine, City Is Mine). Vol.2 did help ease the pain, but cats weren't trying to crown him immediately either.
 
I have more respect for snoop after that interview, I was kinda mad with him going to snoop lion but hey he has a point with everything he said
 
tyisny said:
And your point is what? i said his career was on decline not his skill set.

If someone isn't doing music for two years especially in rap that a hit to your career. Add that to the fact that his last projects before that hiatus were Nastrodamus & that HORRIBLE QB project he headlined. if that isn't a downward spiral i don't know what is.
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didn't you read what I wrote on Nastradamus? Those were throw awaysongs from I Am, and the QB Project was pretty solid if you ask me, he was on just like 5 tracks too.
 
The revisionist history in here by Jay-Z fans is laughable especially from those not from the five boroughs. How could he be the King of NY in 98 when he was still in DMXs shadow? X had the city and country on smash with Dark and Hell is Hot as well as Flesh of my Flesh, Blood of my Blood. X performed at Woodstock 99. That's how big of an artist he was at the time. Cats is crazy in here.
 
JAY was already out in 95' cause that when Dead Presidents dropped..He definitely would have had a career he was just being recognized on a National stage in 95' if BIG & PAC were here I don't think he would be as big tho but Snoop need to chill with this one...
 
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TommyIceRocking said:
didn't you read what I wrote on Nastradamus? Those were throw awaysongs from I Am, and the QB Project was pretty solid if you ask me, he was on just like 5 tracks too.
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I don't really care if they were throwaway tracks or not the **** was trash it's not an excuse.


98? We talking about the same 98 when X dropped 2 MASSIVE albums and had not only the city, but the whole country in a headlock?
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your right x was huge that year but let's not act like Hard Knock Life was equally as massive... Money ain't a thang was ringing off CRAZY and he was doing numbers just like X i would say they were neck and neck at max if jay wasn't a lil ahead. (Hell even the Biggest Def Jam tour to date was called the hard knock life tour even with X at his height)

If not 98 then from 99 he had the crown
 
TommyIceRocking said:
tyisny said:
I was going to sit here and type out a long response butttt.... Both of them did Die, Jay-Z dropped a classic while both were alive that could stand up to any one of their best albums, and he's the face of RAP period in real life and not made up scenarios

So to quote the man "What We Talkin Bout"
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Reasonable Doubt ***** on any pac album and it's not even close yo.

D'Evils >>>>>>
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I agree with this, but that will mean little.
GhettoFabolous337 said:
11:15
"It woulda just been us 3"

Snoop doin politics again...Jay nice as da **** he woulda got to tha top regardless imo
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Also agree with this

I also agree 
 
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I did some searching to see if I remembered correctly and I was right, 'Vol. 3' and 'And Then There Was X' both dropped in December of 99 and DMX's album proceeded to go 6 times platinum, while Vol. 3 only went 3 times platinum. So DMX was still up there in 99-00.
 
So DMX was still up there in 99-00.
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DMX's name being mentioned brings to light exactly what I said earlier, on how you can be hot for a year or two and then be pretty much irrelevant the next.  Sure Tupac and Biggie were running the game at the time of their individual passing's but who's to say that they wouldn't have fallen off at some point in time in their career.  I'm not even talking about retiring either, I'm talking about having the same fate that DMX and as it appears now 50 Cent are going threw. 

Whether folks wants to admit it or not, neither Tupac or Biggie had a lock and key on the rap game where no one else was permitted to enter without their say so.  Be it a rapper or an entire region, as some folks have said the South wouldn't have taken over if Biggie and Tupac were alive.  It's truly unfortunate and sad that both Biggie and Tupac were killed, but life goes on and so does rap music.  With that being said it truly foolish for anyone to say that Jay Z wouldn't have had a career if Biggie and Tupac were alive as we will NEVER know or wouldn't be where he is at in the rap game now.  Just like it's foolish for anyone to say that Jay Z would be where he is at in the rap game if Biggie and Tupac were alive as we will NEVER know. 
 
love those breakfast club interviews, they get down to it with the questions they ask

i agree with what snoop said to the fullest...

he sheds a lot of insight on things, straight up answers

always enjoy his interviews

love wiz to, but that damn movie was HORRIBLE

lol
 
tyisny said:
your right x was huge that year but let's not act like Hard Knock Life was equally as massive... Money ain't a thang was ringing off CRAZY and he was doing numbers just like X i would say they were neck and neck at max if jay wasn't a lil ahead. (Hell even the Biggest Def Jam tour to date was called the hard knock life tour even with X at his height)

If not 98 then from 99 he had the crown
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I wouldn't go that far. HKL was a big record, but X's movement at the time was ridiculous. He hadn't yet cooled off from his first album when he put his foot on other rappers necks by dropping an even bigger album than his first.



Whether folks wants to admit it or not, neither Tupac or Biggie had a lock and key on the rap game where no one else was permitted to enter without their say so.
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I dont think anyone is trying to say that Deuce. Merely that had BIG not passed Jay might have continued to be overlooked the way he was in '96 when he dropped arguably his best work. He would've def had a career, but he might have been reduced to AZ status.
 
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