John Salley On Michael Jordan! "He's Not The Greatest Player Ever"

[japanair21]

I want Kobe's and LeBron's careers to end before making any of these kind of statements.

Jordan wasn't recognized as the GOAT until he retired (the second time).

 

[onna]

jordan, still got that swag, game changer.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

lol @ iamyourson still trying to argue that a team whose leading rebounder averaged 7.5 rebounds per game was tougher than the 2011 Mavs.

Again, what makes Kenyon Martin tough? His attitude and tattoos?? The 2011 Mavs had one of those - DeShawn Stevenson. Kenyon the tough guy power forward was still outrebounded by his point guard.

You're still trying to hang on to the notion that somehow LeBron's 2011 finals have permanently ruined his chances of one day becoming GOAT since you're focusing on them rather than his 2012 playoffs/finals, which are the best ever in terms of consistency.

You found this one stupid thing - "raising to the occasion" compared to his regular season numbers, but what's funny is that there are players who are better suitable for this argument than Jordan. I've already posted how Hakeem Olajuwon elevated his playoff game compared to his regular season even more than Jordan and how Hakeem in his three finals never had a drop in his game like Jordan did in the 1996 finals. But how about Tim Duncan? Duncan played in four finals (all victories) and he never had a finals performance where his numbers dropped like Jordan in the 1996 finals. Which of course makes Duncan greater than Magic, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, Wilt and Russell. So forget about LeBron James. What exactly are your arguments for Jordan being greater than Duncan if elevating your game in the finals should be so emphasized?

I just hope that Tim Duncan gets swept in the first round rather than be in the finals so that his great records of not losing in the finals and lifting his game doesn't get ruined. Therefore, being swept in the first round would be much better for his legacy than a finals loss where he doesn't play well. That's how stupid your arguments are.

 

[tom23]

So much trollery in here, so much laughable commentary. Amazing.

 

[noblekane]

ill say this lebron got a chance to do things jordan never done.

 

[flipnlu]

Jordan is too fundamentally sound for any of these young guys in the league. If Spain stayed with them imagine what the dream team would do. Lebron would have to win out within the 6 years he has left in his prime. (Considering now your past your prime at age 33) Lebron has yet to handle any real adversity let alone an injury. If you take away Jordan and Lebrons athleticism then what would you have? Also I couldn't see Lebron lead the bulls teams to the champioships Jordan did. Jordan on the Heat wouldn't be fair. Who the h377 retires a jersey from the opposing team thats right miami.

 

[mikedamz]

to those saying kobe and lebron is better than mike i honestly believe 98% of them a haven't seen MJ played. It's not just the stats but how he did it and when. I've followed and seen them all including bird and magic... MJ is undisputed GOAT.

 

[thegoldenchild]

Jordan is too fundamentally sound for any of these young guys in the league. If Spain stayed with them imagine what the dream team would do. Lebron would have to win out within the 6 years he has left in his prime. (Considering now your past your prime at age 33) Lebron has yet to handle any real adversity let alone an injury. If you take away Jordan and Lebrons athleticism then what would you have? Also I couldn't see Lebron lead the bulls teams to the champioships Jordan did. Jordan on the Heat wouldn't be fair. Who the h377 retires a jersey from the opposing team thats right miami.

even though, jordan is rated higher than kobe, i do believe that kobe is more fundamentally sound than jordan. has better footwork and has more talent offensively. not saying kobe's better but more offensively sound than jordan was.

 

[mikedamz]

even though, jordan is rated higher than kobe, i do believe that kobe is more fundamentally sound than jordan. has better footwork and has more talent offensively. not saying kobe's better but more offensively sound than jordan was.

fundamentally MJ > Kobe

MJ > better jumper, fade away, catch and shoot, moving without the ball, pump fake, post move, rebounding skills, defensive skills, footwork.

#23 makes the game looks so easy... kobe goes for difficult/low percentage shots, he does make some of them but it doesn't make him any better. again how can you be better than the guy you pattern your whole game with.

kobe got more "streetball" swag in his game though, i give him that.

 

[defobking]

everyone forgot to mention that jordan knew how to play without the ball, jordan knew where to run to and help open the offense. there are many time we see kobe and lebron clueless when they dont have the ball in their hands.

 

[acbboyz84]

fundamentally MJ > Kobe
MJ > better jumper, fade away, catch and shoot, moving without the ball, pump fake, post move, rebounding skills, defensive skills, footwork.
#23 makes the game looks so easy... kobe goes for difficult/low percentage shots, he does make some of them but it doesn't make him any better. again how can you be better than the guy you pattern your whole game with.
kobe got more "streetball" swag in his game though, i give him that.

Please.

I watched MJ. Kobe is better offensively

Check out the shots that Kobe make. In his prime he can score in anyway possible

 

[thegoldenchild]

fundamentally MJ > Kobe
MJ > better jumper, fade away, catch and shoot, moving without the ball, pump fake, post move, rebounding skills, defensive skills, footwork.
#23 makes the game looks so easy... kobe goes for difficult/low percentage shots, he does make some of them but it doesn't make him any better. again how can you be better than the guy you pattern your whole game with.
kobe got more "streetball" swag in his game though, i give him that.

since when is streetball swag a compliment? besides, kobe has all the same skills jordan does and has better footwork, makes tougher shots and has more moves.

 

[al3xis]

lol @ LeBron not dealing with any adversity yet. What?

And he doesn't get hurt because he's one of, if not the best conditioned player in the league, not coincidental.

 

[iamyourfather]

lol @ iamyourson still trying to argue that a team whose leading rebounder averaged 7.5 rebounds per game was tougher than the 2011 Mavs.
Again, what makes Kenyon Martin tough? His attitude and tattoos?? The 2011 Mavs had one of those - DeShawn Stevenson. Kenyon the tough guy power forward was still outrebounded by his point guard.
You're still trying to hang on to the notion that somehow LeBron's 2011 finals have permanently ruined his chances of one day becoming GOAT since you're focusing on them rather than his 2012 playoffs/finals, which are the best ever in terms of consistency.
You found this one stupid thing - "raising to the occasion" compared to his regular season numbers, but what's funny is that there are players who are better suitable for this argument than Jordan. I've already posted how Hakeem Olajuwon elevated his playoff game compared to his regular season even more than Jordan and how Hakeem in his three finals never had a drop in his game like Jordan did in the 1996 finals. But how about Tim Duncan? Duncan played in four finals (all victories) and he never had a finals performance where his numbers dropped like Jordan in the 1996 finals. Which of course makes Duncan greater than Magic, Kareem, Bird, Shaq, Wilt and Russell. So forget about LeBron James. What exactly are your arguments for Jordan being greater than Duncan if elevating your game in the finals should be so emphasized?
I just hope that Tim Duncan gets swept in the first round rather than be in the finals so that his great records of not losing in the finals and lifting his game doesn't get ruined. Therefore, being swept in the first round would be much better for his legacy than a finals loss where he doesn't play well. That's how stupid your arguments are.

Jordan's greatness isn't just in his numbers you halfwit troll, and stop saying my "argument" is that losing in the first round would be better for lebron's legacy. 

Jordan >>>> your idol lebron and any other player you've posted because Jordan was 1. never defeated in the finals 2. successfully defended EVERY title and 3. the only times he didnt defend his title was due to retirement

Duncan never repeated, in 04 the defending champion spurs were eliminated in the 2nd round.

in 2000 the defending champion spurs lost in the first round, etc etc

kobe/shaq/bird/magic/wilt/russell/hakeem/havlicec/your mother have never had the winning percentage or successfully defended their nba title like jordan did

BUT THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE SITTING HERE DEFENDING:

game 1 of the 2011 finals fourth quarter: 2 points

game 2 of the 2011 finals fourth quarter: 2 points

game 3 of the 2011 finals fourth quarter: 0 points

game 4 of the 2011 finals fourth quarter: 2 points

but he was "making the right plays!!!!" and other guys just "weren't making shots!!!!" and the tenacious, steel curtain defense that held lebron to a pathetic stat line but somehow allowed dwayne wade to increase his. right? right guy? because "mark cuban" said it! lol

Oh, and your little "rebounding" stat you like throwing around about the nets... "omg 7.5 rebounds per gamez"

 in 2002 they were the 8th ranked team rebounding in the league.. the 2011 mavs? ranked 14th

the 2006 mavs averaged more rebounds than the 2011 team even 

and BOTH the 2002 and 2003 nets that made it to the finals averaged more rebounds than the 06 and 2011 mavs. so what were you saying about rebounds? LOL

The 2003 nets = 2nd ranked team defense behind the pistons. but the mavs are hardcore hooligans.

not even bothering with you anymore my son. go and live in peace and dont procreate. 

 

[iamyourfather]

since when is streetball swag a compliment? besides, kobe has all the same skills jordan does and has better footwork, makes tougher shots and has more moves.

find a harder move to make than this one by ur boy and say the same thing. there were like 4 ppump fakes/ ball  change in direction in mid air in this sht

 

[knightlovesqueen]

lmao, i cant picture horace w/o his goggles

 

[adrian1221]

kobe got more "streetball" swag in his game though, i give him that.

oh, okay

 

[bmorekicks]

I have ZERO problem with somebody saying MJ is the greatest, but I do have a problem with people saying it isn't even debatable. Some people act like he was head and shoulders greater than Magic, Bird, Kareem etc. and that's just not true. Marketing, cable tv and MJ being more conscious of his brand played a big part also.

 

[shoeking2101]

Kobe is a legit Jordan-lite...

He plays like him, and he's very good, a hall of famer...but he isn't touching Jordan man. Stop that foolishness now.

 

[presequel]

Jordan never dropped 68 on China in 15 mins like Kobe just did.

/end

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Skip Bayless is somewhere in tears reading this thread.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

As I say with every Penny discussion that we have here, I wish I had a hypothetical machine and was able to remove the Nike Machine that was behind Jordan to see how people would view him then. Not saying Nike is the reason he did what he did on the court but marketing is in our minds whether we want to admit it or not. I wonder if Jordan didn't have Nike if we would still view him as a Human God.

 

[ijumpman]

Having watched both, I'd definitely say that Kobe is pretty damn close to Jordan. Fundamentally, neither of them have any flaws. The only real differences are, Kobe is a slightly better 3-point shooter, but Jordan has a little more edge to him as far as competitiveness is concerned. Don't get me wrong, Kobe is determined to win, but to Jordan, it's win or die. He's obsessed with it. You're talking about a guy who became successful from failing, all the way back to high school. Kobe has had success from the start, he was basically bred to be a basketball player. He has that determination, but he doesn't know true failure. Sure, he's lost in the Finals a few times, but he's won so many other times. He never had to play under the shadow of an active player, like Jordan had to play in the shadow of Magic and Bird until the Bulls won a championship. When Kobe first started, Jordan was where he is now, at the end of his career and Shaq was the leader. Kobe never had the same pressure to win. When he plays against LeBron and all the other stars, I feel like he's really competing with players who have already left the league. That's good, but it's not the same as having to actually play against those legends in their prime, and that's where Kobe loses a bit of an edge to Jordan.


Going back to the title of this topic, John Salley is just a has-been, better yet, a never-was who is trying to get in the media spotlight. His opinions on players should not be taken seriously. He should stick to acting and worry about getting a part in Bad Boys III.

 

[knightlovesqueen]

i think kobe's biggest flaw is when he plays kobe ball and goes how much balls would a would a kobe chuck mode.

MJ had something KB and LBJ don't have. Poise

 

[mikedamz]

since when is streetball swag a compliment? besides, kobe has all the same skills jordan does and has better footwork, makes tougher shots and has more moves.

i'm just saying kobe has streetball swag i'm not saying that makes him any better... aesthetically some people specially kids appreciate those skills.

i've seen MJ do every move that kobe has done in his career and then some. I'd say passing the ball to himself through the backboard i haven't seen MJ do that though. lol. The difference is MJ makes difficult shot look easy while kobe making it looked tougher than it is coz he ain't as athletic. Kobe is more like ball on hand face up kind of player, likes to create his own shot by doing fancy dribbling (this is where i see streetball blood in him). he does post up time to time but not as consistent and as effective as MJ. catch and shoot, moving w/o the ball, rebounding skills, defensive skills and over all craftiness goes to #23. Let's not even go to shot selection.

you say same skills? thats because he patterned his whole game to MJ, the problem is he ain't the same beast bcoz athletically he's not on par and MJ is stronger that's why he's much more better post up player. decision making and mental fortitude MJ also has the edge.

no disrespect but how old are you? i've seen both of these players in their respective careers. both are great but... but only one is the GOAT.

I understand die hard kobe fans for picking him though... that's what they do. unfortunately the facts are not on their side.