John Salley On Michael Jordan! "He's Not The Greatest Player Ever"

[mikedamz]

i think kobe's biggest flaw is when he plays kobe ball and goes how much balls would a would a kobe chuck mode.
MJ had something KB and LBJ don't have. Poise

exactly

you can see even a die hard kobe fan blame him for a team loss. i've never seen jordan being blame because of the way he plays, maybe when he was younger. but kobe even at this stage of his career still is a ballhog. I know that's a bit harsh but that's what majority of the fans sees because of his hero ball attitude.

 

[mikedamz]

As I say with every Penny discussion that we have here, I wish I had a hypothetical machine and was able to remove the Nike Machine that was behind Jordan to see how people would view him then. Not saying Nike is the reason he did what he did on the court but marketing is in our minds whether we want to admit it or not. I wonder if Jordan didn't have Nike if we would still view him as a Human God.

Mj would have pwned the league with lining shoes.

MJ will always be appreciated by real basketball fans like me because of what he did inside the court.
I buy air jordans because of the guy... as a kid i thought i could play like him every time i wear my jays.
I don't buy shoes because of the godamn "limited" colorways and what nike is feediing me.

MJ made nike not the other way around. He marketed nike brand by what he did on the court.

you should ask yourself what if nike didn't have jordan?

 

[thegoldenchild]

i'm just saying kobe has streetball swag i'm not saying that makes him any better... aesthetically some people specially kids appreciate those skills.
i've seen MJ do every move that kobe has done in his career and then some. I'd say passing the ball to himself through the backboard i haven't seen MJ do that though. lol. The difference is MJ makes difficult shot look easy while kobe making it looked tougher than it is coz he ain't as athletic. Kobe is more like ball on hand face up kind of player, likes to create his own shot by doing fancy dribbling (this were i see streetball blood in him). he does post up time to time but not as consistent and as effective as MJ. catch and shoot, moving w/o the ball, rebounding skills, defensive skills and over all craftiness goes to #23. Let's not even go to shot selection.
you say same skills? thats because he patterned his whole game to MJ, the problem is he ain't the same beast bcoz athletically he's not on par and MJ is stronger that's why he's much more better post up player. decision making and mental fortitude MJ also has the edge.
no disrespect but how old are you? i've seen both of these players in their respective careers. both are great but... but only one is the GOAT.
I understand die hard kobe fans for picking him though... that's what they do. unfortunately the facts are not on their side.

you know what, you say that kobe is not on par with MJ when it comes to strength? please... then you obviously have not seen kobe back down lebron several times and shooting the fade away over him. yeah kobe has had times when his shot selection was bad, but you also gotta realize that kobe has to bail out the lakers several times, because the other players on that team could not create their own shot. and that is something that was evident since his rookie year..

also the reason kobe doesnt post up like Jordan, is because he does not get the opportunity, playing with shaq, bynum, and gasol, and now also dwight. it clogs up the inside, to have 3 post players. if kobe is on one side, then they would have to have a 4 or 5 on the top of the key or free throw line area and the other is on the opposite side of the bucket.

and streetball swag doesnt mean anything, because there has never been a playground legend amount to anything on the nba court. besides my age has nothing todo with it, because im probably older than you and i have seen both play as well.

i just think it is funny when people think that kobe is not as offensively gifted as Jordan. he is on the same level, if not beyond Jordan. It's just evolution of the game. Besides i have never seen jordan score more than 70 in a game. Which makes Kobe's 81 even more of a feat, coming from a perimeter player. Perhaps kobe's defense has been going down and he's making the 1st team all defense on his name, but still.. it also has to do with age.. and because he's backed up by 2 big men, means that he doesnt have to spend all his energy on defense.

 

[mikedamz]

you know what, you say that kobe is not on par with MJ when it comes to strength? please... then you obviously have not seen kobe back down lebron several times and shooting the fade away over him. yeah kobe has had times when his shot selection was bad, but you also gotta realize that kobe has to bail out the lakers several times, because the other players on that team could not create their own shot. and that is something that was evident since his rookie year..
also the reason kobe doesnt post up like Jordan, is because he does not get the opportunity, playing with shaq, bynum, and gasol, and now also dwight. it clogs up the inside, to have 3 post players. if kobe is on one side, then they would have to have a 4 or 5 on the top of the key or free throw line area and the other is on the opposite side of the bucket.
and streetball swag doesnt mean anything, because there has never been a playground legend amount to anything on the nba court. besides my age has nothing todo with it, because im probably older than you and i have seen both play as well.
i just think it is funny when people think that kobe is not as offensively gifted as Jordan. he is on the same level, if not beyond Jordan. It's just evolution of the game. Besides i have never seen jordan score more than 70 in a game. Which makes Kobe's 81 even more of a feat, coming from a perimeter player. Perhaps kobe's defense has been going down and he's making the 1st team all defense on his name, but still.. it also has to do with age.. and because he's backed up by 2 big men, means that he doesnt have to spend all his energy on defense.

i've seen kobe man... i've seen him from his rookie year. Like i said what kobe has done in his career is already great. 81 points yes that was a great feat. 81 is 81 i don't care if it was against that ****** raptors team that **** is still hard to do.


i get it you're a big kobe fan, unfortunately you haven't followed MJ's career for us to discuss this topic any further.

 

[fudgemoney24]

lol @ LeBron not dealing with any adversity yet. What?
And he doesn't get hurt because he's one of, if not the best conditioned player in the league, not coincidental.

I feel like he doesn't get hurt because he is a genetic freak. His work ethic/conditioning isn't touching Kobe's

 

[knightlovesqueen]

lmao. u gonna blame the man's genes for m\being cyborg like?

 

[scotthallwithapick]

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find a harder move to make than this one by ur boy and say the same thing. there were like 4 ppump fakes/ ball  change in direction in mid air in this sht

LOL at dude on the OPPOSING team holding back his teammates

 

[defobking]

i'm just saying kobe has streetball swag i'm not saying that makes him any better... aesthetically some people specially kids appreciate those skills.
i've seen MJ do every move that kobe has done in his career and then some. I'd say passing the ball to himself through the backboard i haven't seen MJ do that though. lol. The difference is MJ makes difficult shot look easy while kobe making it looked tougher than it is coz he ain't as athletic. Kobe is more like ball on hand face up kind of player, likes to create his own shot by doing fancy dribbling (this is where i see streetball blood in him). he does post up time to time but not as consistent and as effective as MJ. catch and shoot, moving w/o the ball, rebounding skills, defensive skills and over all craftiness goes to #23. Let's not even go to shot selection.
you say same skills? thats because he patterned his whole game to MJ, the problem is he ain't the same beast bcoz athletically he's not on par and MJ is stronger that's why he's much more better post up player. decision making and mental fortitude MJ also has the edge.
no disrespect but how old are you? i've seen both of these players in their respective careers. both are great but... but only one is the GOAT.
I understand die hard kobe fans for picking him though... that's what they do. unfortunately the facts are not on their side.

this man speaks the truth

 

[tony3di]

Majority of you guys on NT or sh** the World Period are Jordan STANS its not your fault though, marketing plays a major part, most yall are sneaker heads & you guys all rock J's or have in the past; its clear as day

its nothing you can say that will make the "majority" of minds believe otherwise, but I HONESTLY THINK YOU HAVE TO be pretty ******ed to think players now aren't better than what they were in the past; MJ was revolutionary he was the first of his kind & extremely dominant in doing so

MJ is on King of Pop status, nobody is better no matter how much they can dance, sing or perform nobody will ever be greater than MJ -_-

i'm reading things like players "lacking" poise? you guys are downplaying the fact that these guys are professional athletes, & extremely talented pros at that!

KOBE patterned his game after MJ, true? So you guys agree honestly think that it is impossible to be better than who you copied? I think that is 100% false

If i'm drafting today & I have a choice to start my team w/ Lebron James or Michael Jordan.. i'm going with Lebron & for a clear reason.. hes just overall better, he impacts the game more on both ends

 

[tony3di]

Who was the best defender in the league when Jordan played? What was his height? and how athletic was he?

 

[jordanshorts23]

Who was the best defender in the league when Jordan played? What was his height? and how athletic was he?

jordan was the wilt chamberlain off his position first of his kind , anyone that doesnt think the game has involved is trippin

with that said , he's the goat

 

[tony3di]

You can't be the GOAT just because you were the first, that doesn't make sense... The Ford Model T isn't better than a brand new Ford Focus? Everything evolves, it's life.. I think what he did as far as dominating his era makes him top 5 ever to play the game, but greatest to ME? Means you were just flat about better than everybody in every category, and Jordan wasn't he was a volume shooter, super competitive & amazingly athletic, compared to players in the 90's he was a alien.. imagine Lebron in the 90's? Lebron is Magic Johnson on steroids, Lebron in 2000's & now in this new decade is still an alien, stuff he does is inhumane & makes you question if hes doping, seeing Lebron play in person is just beyond fake, and same thing w/ Kobe or even T-Mac in his prime, Durant is 6'11 shooting guard, super competitive, in a few years he's reaching "GOAT" status, you have guards like Derrick Rose, crazy explosive & strong these players didn't exist back then, the league is a different animal now, Isaiah Thomas.. was first of his kind, anyone who plays basketball will tell you the smallest guys are the most skilled.. now when you have a 6'9 270lb human being who is just as explosive and just as skilled as someone who is 6'0 (Chris Paul) smh now thats GOAT status to me, when Lebron career is over, hopefully he doesn't get injured he will be known as the GOAT until somebody surpasses him

 

[mikedamz]

Majority of you guys on NT or sh** the World Period are Jordan STANS its not your fault though, marketing plays a major part, most yall are sneaker heads & you guys all rock J's or have in the past; its clear as day


its nothing you can say that will make the "majority" of minds believe otherwise, but I HONESTLY THINK YOU HAVE TO be pretty ******ed to think players now aren't better than what they were in the past; MJ was revolutionary he was the first of his kind & extremely dominant in doing so

MJ is on King of Pop status, nobody is better no matter how much they can dance, sing or perform nobody will ever be greater than MJ -_-

i'm reading things like players "lacking" poise? you guys are downplaying the fact that these guys are professional athletes, & extremely talented pros at that!

KOBE patterned his game after MJ, true? So you guys agree honestly think that it is impossible to be better than who you copied? I think that is 100% false

If i'm drafting today & I have a choice to start my team w/ Lebron James or Michael Jordan.. i'm going with Lebron & for a clear reason.. hes just overall better, he impacts the game more on both ends

congrats you won't be winning any time soon coz lebron will leave your sorry *** team after he fails a couple of times and opts to take his talent somewhere else.

 

[mikedamz]

You can't be the GOAT just because you were the first, that doesn't make sense... The Ford Model T isn't better than a brand new Ford Focus? Everything evolves, it's life.. I think what he did as far as dominating his era makes him top 5 ever to play the game, but greatest to ME? Means you were just flat about better than everybody in every category, and Jordan wasn't he was a volume shooter, super competitive & amazingly athletic, compared to players in the 90's he was a alien.. imagine Lebron in the 90's? Lebron is Magic Johnson on steroids, Lebron in 2000's & now in this new decade is still an alien, stuff he does is inhumane & makes you question if hes doping, seeing Lebron play in person is just beyond fake, and same thing w/ Kobe or even T-Mac in his prime, Durant is 6'11 shooting guard, super competitive, in a few years he's reaching "GOAT" status, you have guards like Derrick Rose, crazy explosive & strong these players didn't exist back then, the league is a different animal now, Isaiah Thomas.. was first of his kind, anyone who plays basketball will tell you the smallest guys are the most skilled.. now when you have a 6'9 270lb human being who is just as explosive and just as skilled as someone who is 6'0 (Chris Paul) smh now thats GOAT status to me, when Lebron career is over, hopefully he doesn't get injured he will be known as the GOAT until somebody surpasses him.

until then MJ is GOAT get back to me after he wins another couple of titles.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

until then MJ is GOAT get back to me after he wins another couple of titles.

Nobody can seriously say that if his career ended tomorrow, LeBron would be better than Jordan.

But what some idiots here seem to be saying is that his 2011 finals have permanently ruined his chances of ever theoretically becoming better than Jordan which is just stupid with him only being 27.

 

[duba169]

His dissapering act in 2011 did ruin his chances of ever being better.

Formed a super team and still had one of the most embarrassing performances for a superstr ever.

 

[cashbanks]

Only idiots write off LeBron as ever being the GOAT if anyone has a chance to take MJs throne its Bron in terms of stats and achievements he CAN get there will he is yet to be seen but dude could very well wind up with 6 or 7 mvps a dpoy trophy roy 2 gold medals already dude could have an ill resume when it's all over he gotta get some more chips tho

 

[mez 0ne]

Lebron impacts the game because he is a natural unselfish PG ala Magic Johnson/Oscar Robertson.... but point is he went to a pile on team to win his chip and lost in his first two Finals appearances.

Jordan went to the Finals and never lost, once he was there it was over, never any questioning of his clutchness, and proved during a time of big men that you did not need a dominant man in the pain to win a championship. Jordan stayed on the same team and they only legit big name FA they ever got was Rodman.

Shoot...even Kobe has had pile on teams before, and still does now.

Same people that keep saying Brady is just as good as Joe Montana if he wins more rings than him. Joe never lost in the Superbowl EVER.

 

[solarius49]

So people are condeming Wilt for being bigger, stronger and faster than his competition, but the same qualities make LBJ the GOAT?

*****

 

[al3xis]

I feel like he doesn't get hurt because he is a genetic freak. His work ethic/conditioning isn't touching Kobe's

do you train with them in the off-season?

 

[tony3di]

Society has changed! The LEAGUE HAS TOO MUCH TALENT, if your teams ain't stacked, you not winning the big one, and players get paid a whole lot more now than they did in the past.. so loyalty is nonexistent especially with the pressure to win now are even higher..i blame the media and society, but that doesn't take away from how good these dudes are; have any of y'all ever seen Lebron in person? he is not human

 

[thegoldenchild]

i've seen kobe man... i've seen him from his rookie year. Like i said what kobe has done in his career is already great. 81 points yes that was a great feat. 81 is 81 i don't care if it was against that ****** raptors team that **** is still hard to do.
i get it you're a big kobe fan, unfortunately you haven't followed MJ's career for us to discuss this topic any further.

and how would you know if i followed jordan or not? you already have this mindset, that it is jordan and no one can ever touch him.. so yes, this discussion is over.. just how people believe that ali is the greatest boxer ever. no one can touch him.. it makes discussions pointless, because you can never see it any different

 

[tony3di]

So MJ wasn't a ball hog? MJ wasn't a chucker? Who guarded MJ in the 90's? how many 6'7 physical specimens, who were just as quick & just as strong, and could defend back then? MJ's best defender practiced against him, his name was Scottie Pippen... Vernon Maxwell defended him pretty well too might have been the best defender, & maybe John Starks...

 

[tony3di]

and how would you know if i followed jordan or not? you already have this mindset, that it is jordan and no one can ever touch him.. so yes, this discussion is over.. just how people believe that ali is the greatest boxer ever. no one can touch him.. it makes discussions pointless, because you can never see it any different

I co-sign, arguing in this thread is pointless

 

[duba169]

Who are these amazing defenders lebron is going up against?

I would love to know who he went against in the playoffs that was even better than starks. It wasnt melo. It damn sure wasnt durant

Battier is a great defender. Oh wait hes already on his stacked team

Who?

He did not see tony. So who? Since u wanna pretend these current players are soooo much better at defense. Even tho most of them half *** it


Sefalosha is the only one that stands out to me. Pierce is way too hurt and old to pose a threat to hin