Jordan III REIMAGINED “White Cement” -March 11th 2023

[picasso swerve]

I don’t hate LeBron totally. I think he’s talented and a great player overall, just not GOAT status. People use terms like “goat” or “classic” way too freely. Calling something or someone the GOAT should be reserved based on very tough criteria and standards. When we think of GOAT athletes in general, names like Jordan, Gretzky, Babe Ruth etc come to mind. LeBron is a fantastic player but he’s not in that category.

Now you just hating.

Bron absolutely deserves to be in the conversation and I am FAR from a big Bron fam. Its always fun to see the King lose.

 

[WASHED KING]

Dirk > Every player MJ beat in the Finals.
KD > Every player MJ Beat in the Finals.
Duncan > Every player MJ Beat in the Finals
Steph > Every player MJ beat in the Finals.

 

[g-time]

Brons easily the most talented/best player ever. His durability to me is the most astonishing.

In any case, while hes the best player MJ is the greatest. 6-0 man, all that needs to be said. He aint lose in the brightest of lights. Bron needed a super team to get his first , coudnt even take down Dirk his first time around.

I’m not looking at rings. Russell has more. Havlicek has more. Hell, Robert Horry has more. I’m not looking at team accomplishments in a goat debate. The go to is MJ never lost in a finals. No his team never lost. (I mean if we use that argument should Brady not be the GOAT in football because he lost three SB’s and it should be Montana because he went undefeated?)

You could argue MJ’s 2nd 3-peat was the start of super teams playing alongside two other HOFers. There’s also an argument about the role players on either side. I look at it more from an impact on the game point of view, and to me, 1a and 1b. You say Lebron needed super teams but MJ never played against a super team like KD Warriors or a 73-9 team.

 

[OldManJays]

I’m not looking at rings. Russell has more. Havlicek has more. Hell, Robert Horry has more. I’m not looking at team accomplishments in a goat debate. The go to is MJ never lost in a finals. No his team never lost. (I mean if we use that argument should Brady not be the GOAT in football because he lost three SB’s and it should be Montana because he went undefeated?)

You could argue MJ’s 2nd 3-peat was the start of super teams playing alongside two other HOFers. There’s also an argument about the role players on either side. I look at it more from an impact on the game point of view, and to me, 1a and 1b. You say Lebron needed super teams but MJ never played against a super team like KD Warriors or a 73-9 team.

Wait you mean that same Warriors team that choked?

73-9 don’t mean a thing without the ring. Lol. Also, can you say with a STRAIGHT FACE that same Warriors team would have won 73 games in the mid 90’s?

 

[OldManJays]

Dirk > Every player MJ beat in the Finals.
KD > Every player MJ Beat in the Finals.
Duncan > Every player MJ Beat in the Finals
Steph > Every player MJ beat in the Finals.

That’s a pretty hot take at best. Duncan I believe is the only one you could make an argument for. Wouldnt put any of the others over Magic, Malone, or Barkley.

 

[picasso swerve]

I’m not looking at rings. Russell has more. Havlicek has more. Hell, Robert Horry has more. I’m not looking at team accomplishments in a goat debate. The go to is MJ never lost in a finals. No his team never lost. (I mean if we use that argument should Brady not be the GOAT in football because he lost three SB’s and it should be Montana because he went undefeated?)

You could argue MJ’s 2nd 3-peat was the start of super teams playing alongside two other HOFers. There’s also an argument about the role players on either side. I look at it more from an impact on the game point of view, and to me, 1a and 1b. You say Lebron needed super teams but MJ never played against a super team like KD Warriors or a 73-9 team.

Your ring argument is hilarious honestly. Cmon man you can do better than that.

Lebrons super team was disbanded way before the KD Dubs. And his only real super team was that Miami squad.

 

[picasso swerve]

Wait you mean that same Warriors team that choked?

73-9 don’t mean a thing without the ring. Lol. Also, can you say with a STRAIGHT FACE that same Warriors team would have won 73 games in the mid 90’s?

Yes.

 

[OldManJays]

Yes.

I think you are reaching longer than MJ’s arms in Space Jam. We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[picasso swerve]

I think you are reaching longer than MJ’s arms in Space Jam. We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Cause things were more physical? The hand checking thing? Actually maybe youre right, maybe not 73 but theyd def be a contender.

 

[DB Cooper]

 

[OldManJays]

Yep. Winning 65+ was much harder in the 90’s than it is now. MUCH harder, cause the game was just a lot more physically demanding and grueling back then. I’d give them 60-61, about roughly the same as the Magic that year. No way they win 70+ though. What the Bulls did that year was unprecedented, and they didn’t just win 72, but they absolutely destroyed teams like it was no thing. Their average margin of victory was in the double digits which is even more insane for that era.

 

[206to813]

Mods need to lock up this trash ah thread

 

[g-time]

Wait you mean that same Warriors team that choked?

73-9 don’t mean a thing without the ring. Lol. Also, can you say with a STRAIGHT FACE that same Warriors team would have won 73 games in the mid 90’s?

You ignored my longevity post. Convenient I’m not going to get heavily involved in this GOAT debate because just by reading the posts before a mod cleans this up, it gets stupid.

Your ring argument is hilarious honestly. Cmon man you can do better than that.

Lebrons super team was disbanded way before the KD Dubs. And his only real super team was that Miami squad.

What I said wasn’t far fetched or a reach. Rings are a team accomplishment. MJ didn’t do it all by himself lol.

 

[picasso swerve]

Mods need to lock up this trash ah thread

I aint gon lie I didnt even realize this was the WC thread, I thought it was the Bron 20 thread.

 

[picasso swerve]

You ignored my longevity post. Convenient I’m not going to get heavily involved in this GOAT debate because just by reading the posts before a mod cleans this up, it gets stupid.

What I said wasn’t far fetched or a reach. Rings are a team accomplishment. MJ didn’t do it all by himself lol.

Of course not. But hes also the reason why they won. You dont just replace him with someone and they go 6-0. Horry got what, 7? He woudnt of gotten those if he wasnt on the teams he was on, and he made some big shots (Lakers) but he had Kobe and Shaq doing most of the heavy lifting. Russell was playing plumbers and part time businessmen so I aint even going there.

 

[WASHED KING]

I wouldn't mind a shock drop soon.

 

[picasso swerve]

Yep. Winning 65+ was much harder in the 90’s than it is now. MUCH harder, cause the game was just a lot more physically demanding and grueling back then. I’d give them 60-61, about roughly the same as the Magic that year. No way they win 70+ though. What the Bulls did that year was unprecedented, and they didn’t just win 72, but they absolutely destroyed teams like it was no thing. Their average margin of victory was in the double digits which is even more insane in that era.

More so hand checking would be terrible for the Dubs. Steph and Klay would have their fits dealing with that. Otherwise physicality is sometimes overrated. Just cause people posted up more and there were harder fouls doesnt mean the game was 100x tougher back then. In a diff notion how would those 90 teams compete with the speed and shooting of that Dubs team?

 

[g-time]

More so hand checking would be terrible for the Dubs. Steph and Klay would have their fits dealing with that. Otherwise physicality is sometimes overrated. Just cause people posted up more and there were harder fouls doesnt mean the game was 100x tougher back then. In a diff notion how would those 90 teams compete with the speed and shooting of that Dubs team?

How would 90s teams/MJ deal with having to defend the three that’s shot/made at the rate it is today?

 

[picasso swerve]

How would 90s teams/MJ deal with having to defend the three that’s shot/made at the rate it is today?

Theyd get shot out the gym, they wasnt built to defend that. And you cant play as physical, itd be a wrap.

 

[g-time]

Of course not. But hes also the reason why they won. You dont just replace him with someone and they go 6-0. Horry got what, 7? He woudnt of gotten those if he wasnt on the teams he was on, and he made some big shots (Lakers) but he had Kobe and Shaq doing most of the heavy lifting. Russell was playing plumbers and part time businessmen so I aint even going there.

I think Pippen’s importance is kind of underrated when it comes to this argument. He averaged almost 20 ppg throughout those bulls playoff/finals runs. He was averaging over 20+ppg during 91-98. I mean MJ said during the Last Dance they lost that one playoff series against the pistons because Scottie didn’t play because of a migraine lol.

 

[picasso swerve]

I think Pippen’s importance is kind of underrated when it comes to this argument. He averaged almost 20 ppg throughout those bulls playoff/finals runs. He was averaging over 20+ppg during 91-98. I mean MJ said during the Last Dance they lost that one playoff series against the pistons because Scottie didn’t play because of a migraine lol.

No ones downplaying Scotties importance though. This was about the whole superteam thing, which I guess is loosely defined by having 3 top all star players, the Heat.

 

[OldManJays]

Depends on what rules we play by. But overall, I think a player like MJ would have an easier time adapting to todays rules than a player today would if we went back to 90’s rules and physicality.

If we use todays rules, how are you going to guard Mike? That’s the million dollar question here. It was already hard enough in the 90’s. In todays game he would get 50 a night EASILY.

Todays teams would be lucky to get the ball passed half court if we play by 90’s rules, let alone drain 3’s left and right. And if they did make it passed half court, they’ get put on their butts HARD moment they tried that “let’s win by hitting 3’s” nonsense.

 

[g-time]

No ones downplaying Scotties importance though. This was about the whole superteam thing, which I guess is loosely defined by having 3 top all star players, the Heat.

Your initial response was take MJ off those teams they don’t win. Of course. But you could argue the same with Scottie. His offense was def needed and he was the lockdown defender.

 

[AIR J XIII]

LeBron has said he’s the GOAT before and that he’s the best to ever play the game. He ain’t wrong

That was my point, lebron has to say it because he knows what he’s done the court isn’t enough on its own.

Dirk > Every player MJ beat in the Finals.
KD > Every player MJ Beat in the Finals.
Duncan > Every player MJ Beat in the Finals
Steph > Every player MJ beat in the Finals.

I’m glad I know you’re trolling

 

[g-time]

MJ said it in an interview too, but it’s Lebron I get it.