*** JUST A REMINDER: PAC WAS NOT AN MC/LYRICIST.. ***

[thebachellor]

I agree with the OP, but I have a little advice for you.

Don't start this argument in NT. This forum is full of heads who've never even felt the streets and listen to rap, so in order to make their opinion inthis type of music seem more relevant, they take the "legends" and put them on a pedastal so no one can question their opinions/backround.They're just male versions of these myspace chicks who have "pac...big... I LOVE U FOREVER" on their pages just so their opinions will be giventhe "nod of approval" by the "hip-hop heads". Get the eff outta here

Once they realise that no one gives a **** about their opinions (and that they're more likely to be noticed if they DON'T have pac or big in their top5's), then they'll switch their style up.

It's a natural fact, things generally get better with time. Lyricism is no different. Now, you can argue "music" doesn't follow this... butas far as pure, lyrical talent, I have no problem saying that a handful of emcees are better than pac AND big lyrically (pac especially, you don't evenwant to see me on this argument).

Yea, I said it.

.

 

[thebachellor]

Originally Posted by iLLscan

BTW, anybody who doesn't think Em isn't a top 10 hip-hop/rap artist is a fool

And at this point, the Pac "mystique" has grown to a level where he is above legitimate criticism to the average hip hop fan. This train of thought seems to be the popular consensus. The myth has become bigger than the man. He is the rap superhero to most.
He was not an exceptional emcee/rapper in my opinion. Some of his messages were important, Yes. But so were a lot of other emcees (Chuck D, KRS, Mos Def ect). I'm not saying he was bad......not at all. But lets keep this thing in perspective.


Basically. If Pac was alive today releasing as much "material" as he is now...dead, these same peeps would be on some "hang it up!!! omggive the new kids a chance" tip.

Just because he died, and in a tragic way... people put criticism of his skill off limits.

@*$@ outta here. This is rap homie... nothing is off limits.

 

[ualreadyknow23]

I really hope it's some new rapper out called Pacman and we ain't really talkin bout Tupac Pac...

And you a fool if Em isnt really in your Top 10.

Ya'll kill me with this...Em is nice YES, but DAMN what makes this man top 5 on alotta ya'lls list? He's very clever with his word play,witty, funny, and at times can spit some real meaningful content. But does that REALLY make him a top 5 MC? Like I need a list of songs that would put him onthat list. I put in an Em album and I just get frustrated after awhile because I feel like so much talent is being wasted on tryna be funny. He need to spitlike Renegade 80% of the time instead of 20%. I'm just sayin though...



- Preciate it.

 

[carlos2220]

P.S. I dont own any Pac tracks on my comp.

because he definitely cant make a "Meet The Parents" or a "Nas Rewind"

Don't get me wrong I dig a lot of Pac tracks like Against All Odds, 2 Of Americaz Most Wanted, Hail Mary, etc.

Oh yeah, and his best song Changes is deep. Dear Mama was deep too.

But on the real, find me a Pac track like Em's Stan and I will close this thread.

dude really...the thing that gets makes me

about your argument is that the points you make are terrible. i hate tomake a judgement on the type of music you listen to but by the songs you have posted saying that you like or "he cant make songs like"...sounds to methat you like that trl cheezzzzzy stuff. if you are going to compare nas to pac i can think of tons of songs that are way better than rewind to back up yourpoint. and if you think changes is the best pac song, that #@%$ doesn't even scratch the surface. if you are going to make a bold statement you should dosome hw before. just my two cents at the end of the day its your opinion...but tupac=g.o.a.t.

on another note...

And you a fool if Em isnt really in your Top 10.

not even top 30

IMO Big > Pac. Big freestyle game was just ridiculous! You could tell a song from a freestyle.

Anyways wayne is crushing both of them.
crushing both?

you right....youright....don't even know what to say about that post so you get alien dude

 

[khadafi252]

in 2pac's defense, and i HATE that man's music... he was not a lyricist but someone with powerful words and a message to deliver.

i NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL BE A FAN OF PAC but he had his style. 2pac IS NOT a canibus. his delivery was simple and elementary if you ask me. but he inspiredmany people and had a message to help make black men and women, or just anyone that's going through the struggle, be progressive.

now, can we dead this? in 8 more years, it'll be 20 years since he's died. look how 1996 turned so quickly into 2008. maybe what we need to do isfigure out who the killer is. my vote is suge knight or diddy, hahahahahahaha.

 

[phaedaway12]

maybe what we need to do is figure out who the killer is. my vote is suge knight or diddy, hahahahahahaha.
I feel so ASHAMED but this had me

..I need to go to bed..
Maybe it's because I just found out how lucrative my tax return is..

 

[bboy1827]

I look at it like this, put pac in the booth and put Lupe in the booth; give them the subject of life...Pac walking out with Changes, Lupe is Walking out withIntruder Alert, you be the judge. Pac is kind of like O.J will always be remembered for the things he did off the field more for the things he did on, althoughwhat he did on the mic was great, there are a lot of people who did it better but won't have the same impact on peoples lifes, people still argue O.Jpeople still Love Pac.

 

[Mamba4life]

Man, I miss rappers like Tupac and Public Enemy, etc.. Rappers who gave social commentary and really cared about the music they were putting out and themessage it conveyed. Pac was the best IMO. Dude put his heart into his music. Now Big was more clever with word play/metaphors..etc, but I don't think heever released anything that had the social significance of Pac's music.

 

[manik916]

Not to say that Pac wasn't good or great or whatevs, but he was/is madd overrated.

 

[BANLEU]

Originally Posted by khadafi252

in 2pac's defense, and i HATE that man's music... he was not a lyricist but someone with powerful words and a message to deliver.

i NEVER HAVE AND NEVER WILL BE A FAN OF PAC but he had his style. 2pac IS NOT a canibus. his delivery was simple and elementary if you ask me. but he inspired many people and had a message to help make black men and women, or just anyone that's going through the struggle, be progressive.

now, can we dead this? in 8 more years, it'll be 20 years since he's died. look how 1996 turned so quickly into 2008. maybe what we need to do is figure out who the killer is. my vote is suge knight or diddy, hahahahahahaha.

Wait a minute how can you agree that he has powerful words and messages but say he isn't lyrical? that is almost contradicting itself because hispowerful words and messages come from his lyrics.

 

[passback]

Pac is your fav. rappers fav. rapper... And you have LUPE in your top 5

GET THE !%%# outta here !

 

[cirusblack]

LUPE? Top 5 lyricist of all time?? LMAO. U Wylin'. Please Eject Lupe and insert Canibus into that slot. Thanks.

 

[jmoneybaggz]

double

 

[jmoneybaggz]

If Pac is not an MC/Lyricist then the terms don't exist. I hate when cats who never really listened to 2PAC say +*!# they know nothing about. 2PAC gotrespect as an emcee in NY circles. Believe that. His peers respected his craft and during the early 90s there wasn't many WC emcees that could get EastCoast respect beside him and Ice Cube.

You say he can't make a song like Rewind. How many rappers can make a song like Rewind to begin with? You don't have to be Canibus with it to beconsidered a lyricist. That's the problem. People set a standard that's just flawed and they don't see the chinks in the armor. Pac's wordplaywasn't impressive. His flow wasn't impressive. His punchlines weren't impressive. They didn't have to be though. He is one of the most poignantlyricist to ever record music. Not just rap homie. Music period. His voice/delivery/and raw emotion put him up there with the best. You really doubt 2Pac hadthe ability to get on some NY cipher type +*!# and destroy mics? He was brought up in the Bay Area and they wasn't on that tip so he had no reason to tryhard enough to appeal to someone who only wanted hear some Chino XL/ GZA/Mos Def type lyricism. He polished his own style and it worked for him.

Pac made his music universally appealing by cutting out the extra stuff and still giving the purist the chance to appreciate his craft. Who else in Rap Historyhas displayed raw emotion on track and made the deepest topics hit your sub conscience to let you know it was natural? Pac rhymed about loving his mom and itwas as superfically appealing as rhyming about smashing some broad. Look at the copycats since then. Pac hit every subject known to man in one way or anotherand it spoke volumes because it was real and you didn't need to read to deep into the lyrics.

I ain't no killer
But don't push me
Revenge is like the sweetest joy next to getting *$##+...

Please drop some bars that have a universal appeal such as what I just typed. Please do it! You can have all the technical skill in the world, but if youain't saying nothing...then you're flawed as a lyricist. Lyricism is way more than technical skill. How can you make the listener relate to whatyou're saying? You could decipher some Chino XL rhymes and it amounts to a bunch of a rambling. Rhyming 3 or 4 syllable words is impressive, but what areyou saying in that verse? I use to debate on the net with cats that Its Dark and Hell is Hot is a classic. The counter-argument was that its wasn't lyricalto be up there with the best. People love to equate lyrical with reading well on paper. This is music...

I'm a fan of Lupe and I enjoy his witty rhymes, but beside his technical skill, he also has the ability to project a subject in a manner that a listenercan comprehend and feel the music. Pac was one of the best to do that. There aren't many who can compare to him. I can't stand when people try portraylyricism as some type of skillset that requires the writer to extremely complex with word scheme. That just false.

Go listen to some Pac and come back and let's debate this further.

 

[slrs]

jmoneybaggz

Thanks man..

I understand a bit more.. real talk.

I'm not here to hate on dude like it seems some of ya'll think I'm here to do. But also to learn on what dude "really" was because I wasconfused.

 

[jmoneybaggz]

Fam, I meant no disrespect. It's not even a backtrack on words when I say that. I posted the stone face because I hear this so much, and it gets to me . Ihave to address the topic logically though so people can see the other side to the argument. If you cut out all the superficial !%@%%%+$, you'll see Pacwas truly one of the greatest. People hear things like "my mom cried when Pac died" and think that's the only reason people felt Pac. Is Pacoverrated? Yes...So is Biggie, and so is Jay-Z, Nas, Wayne, Eminem, and Lupe. Add as many names you want. There overrated by people who rate them for thingsother than their music. When you cut that out, you can judge for yourself and you'll get a clear opinion on the topic...

 

[yardfather]

And you a fool if Em isnt really in your Top 10.



not even top 30

Sorry but there is no way in hell there are 30 MCs better than Em

 

[tha23greatest]

Originally Posted by SLRS

but imo, pac is ten times better than big.

Stop it.

if i'm not mistaken a lyricist is someone who writes/wrote lyrics

One of the best lyricists ever doesn't write.

But on the real, find me a Pac track like Em's Stan and I will close this thread.

Theres songs stronger than stan imo

 

[datboi23]

To be honest SLRS you should already know who is better.....deep down inside you know that pac is way better than b.i.g and so does the majority of NT so youlost

 

[gambit215]

im not even gonna read this post cuz its gotten to WAY TOO MANY PAGES, um what are you talking about PAc not a lyricist? He went to Baltimore School of Arts,this guy was actually an ACTOR, everyone can recall the video where he got a redwings shirt and he spittin on camera but no one can recal interviews where heactually showed his intelligence (no Resurrection dont count), if you listen to him theres an interview where he talks about Iambic Pentameter, different rhymeschemes, he could play the piano, he WROTE SONGS, he knows the difference between a hook and a bridge, not even gonna make this an AGE thread but you youngcats will never understand...........it was bigger than music.. it was a revolution that got cut short

 

[TYE_The Time Traveler]

Do you guys think that Big and Pac would have the same impact now if they were still alive?

 

[kingkong]

rakim

 

[slrs]

Originally Posted by DatBoi23

To be honest SLRS you should already know who is better.....deep down inside you know that pac is way better than b.i.g and so does the majority of NT so you lost

 

[airuphere23]

Pac's words words and emotions were stronger than his flow. Not every 2Pac song was inspirational, but even when it was some diss track or anthem type songyou always got raw emotion with 2Pac.


Most MC's are based on flow, hooks, a good beat, and maybe a solid album if they're special. 2Pac just needed his thoughts, feelings, and emotions tomake a song hot. That is why Pac isn't so much a lyricist as he is a modern day poet.

 

[BaltimoreLove]

You really doubt 2Pac had the ability to get on some NY cipher type +*!# and destroy mics?
i doubt it 1000%

Pac will get out shinned in every cipher every time if you compare him to the greats...

Em, Royce, Az, Nas, Cannibus...

you mean to tell me he can hold his own in a cipher with them?

honestly he cant hold a cipher with dudes i smoke and rap with and non of them famous...