Lebron James Is Ruining The Game For The Average Fan

[antidope]

Antidote running away from the conversation when his facts are addressed lol.

Nobody watch the games and then agree that lebron is an elite shooter. His jumpers have improved over the last couple years but he's not a knock down nor elite jump shooter. Period.

Defense can afford to leave James open but they will not ignore the scouting report and leave guys like Melo, Durant, curry etc open.

Who is running away from things, I'm choosing not to discuss this with you further because nothing you're saying is making sense. In your last post to me you said that no accredited or respectable sports outlets deemed lebron an elite shooter, yet the two articles I posted were from ESPN and Grantland. Go ahead and say those aren't respectable companies, please do it... And now the defense can afford to leave the guy with the highest jump shot FG% open, yet 2 pages ago you said that his percentage is only so high because he's wide open all the time cause they play the drive. So to recap, according to you, the defense can afford to leave him open when he's making the most jumpers out of anyone but the only reason he's doing that is because they leave him open, so my question to you is why would they continue to do that?


You haven't come close to refuting anything that I said, it's hilarious that you think you have. No one is running from anything, you haven't bested anyone. Feel free to come back when you have something valid to say other than you've watched the games as if you're the only person in the world privileged to have access to a television and then I will be happy to continue this conversation with you.

 

[kj2k]

He has still yet to prove he's as clutch as he should be for a player of his skill level.

 

[kj2k]

and I know I'm a Celtics fan.. but am the only one who seems to notice the refs often siding with Miami/LeBron on calls? I am still a firm believer that the Celtics lost to Miami in the playoffs last year because of the refs.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

am still a firm believer that the Celtics lost to Miami in the playoffs last year because of the refs.

Is this real life?

 

[cashbanks]

and I know I'm a Celtics fan.. but am the only one who seems to notice the refs often siding with Miami/LeBron on calls? I am still a firm believer that the Celtics lost to Miami in the playoffs last year because of the refs.

Refs have ALWAYS shown love to stars and Boston lost because they are not as good as Miami

The End.

Oh and this Alpha Wolf dude has used this thread as a chance to make an entire fool of himself between his inability to type in english and this STUPID argument I'm giving him donkey of the day

 

[cashbanks]

I don't enjoy flopping

so you dont watch any nba teams i take it

 

[mister friendly]

You can't use a 'system' argument for improving his jumpshot and then turnaround and use Melo in NY this year as a comparison. The system in New York this year helped him tremendously from the outside. I guess you didn't watch the games.

Also, I watched 90% of LeBron's games this year and never did I see him take uncontested shots from the mid-range. IF he was left unguarded, he'd surely be at the rim, not taking a 15ft jumper. #WatchTheGame. It's not his fault if people have to play an extra 8-12 inches off of him and give him space. Do you get more credit for being decrepit or an out of shape sloth in need of making shots with a hand in your face every time?

Is he among the real elite? No. Is he very good now? yes. Does it matter? Not really, the Heat aren't suffering on offense.

And Lebron never had a system in Cleveland that was tailored to his strengths?

I said compare Lebron when he wasn't on a "stacked" team and therefore had to carry most of the offensive load like Melo did. I think thats a fair comparison.

I do watch their games, I play watch 90 percent because I like to do other things besides sit on my couch and watch the NBA zealously but I watch enough.

In the games I watched Lebron is does shoot alot of in NBA terms "uncontested" jumpers., he does get better looks than the other superstars because of the way his team is set up.

Durant isn't out of shape or a sloth and he still has alot of his shots contested. So you can save that argument, its his team, thats making him look like a great shooter now not him.

 

[alphawolf]

Who is running away from things, I'm choosing not to discuss this with you further because nothing you're saying is making sense. In your last post to me you said that no accredited or respectable sports outlets deemed lebron an elite shooter, yet the two articles I posted were from ESPN and Grantland. Go ahead and say those aren't respectable companies, please do it... And now the defense can afford to leave the guy with the highest jump shot FG% open, yet 2 pages ago you said that his percentage is only so high because he's wide open all the time cause they play the drive. So to recap, according to you, the defense can afford to leave him open when he's making the most jumpers out of anyone but the only reason he's doing that is because they leave him open, so my question to you is why would they continue to do that?


You haven't come close to refuting anything that I said, it's hilarious that you think you have. No one is running from anything, you haven't bested anyone. Feel free to come back when you have something valid to say other than you've watched the games as if you're the only person in the world privileged to have access to a television and then I will be happy to continue this conversation with you.

If all that doesn't make sense to you then maybe you're just slow. Or maybe you're in denial.lol. Selective listening?

And yes if you watch the game you will see that defense does give lebron a lot of room. Sometime they will even dare him to shoot. They rather dare him to make jumper than let him drive to the rim.

There's no article that claim lebron as an "elite" shooter. It's alway a question mark.

If you think lebron is an elite shooter base on fg% then you must also agree than Brandon bass is better jump shooter than lebron James. Also with udonis Harlem lol.

I also saw rondo name in grant land breakdown of nba best shooter lol. Obviously the stat is misleading.

I think you need to sit down and look up the definition of the word elite dude.

He's not an elite shooter. .

No coach, players have said that that lebron is a good shooter.

 

[alphawolf]

Rondo. According to grant land shot 50% inside of the 3pt line to 16ft this season. In antidote simple minded view. He think rondo is an elite jump shooter lol.

 

[trynafeelmink]

**** this whole argument but ya'll not really gonna sit here and tell me Paul Milsap & Serge Ibaka are ELITE shooters.... Can they knock down that shot when spot up and left open YES... are they coming off screens, Off the Dribble, Backing down and fading cats no

Steph curry, Klay Thompson, Durant, Kobe are ELITE shooters those two guys ya'll mentioned aren't Elite.

Lebron isn't either IMO but nonetheless he's become very good at it and he's ELITE at damn near everything else so who really cares.

 

[mister friendly]

Its not just limited to Bass and Ibaka,

If Lebron is an elite jump shooter then Chris Bosh, Kevin Durant, Kevin Garnett, Stephen Curry, CP3, Dirk, Carl Landry,Duncan, Hickson, Andray Blatche, Vucevic Paul Millsap, Melo, Carlos Boozer, Kobe, Klay, Parker, Calderon, Johnson are elite jump shooters too.

Considering all those guys have same or a higher jump shooting % than Lebron.

Thats list is like 20 deep. Thats a broad definition of elite.

 

[trynafeelmink]

"Superteams" have been constructed before. Just by old men in suits in the back office.

I dont know why a people act like its a problem when players do it....I mean I think I do but I dont want to derail the thread.

Choosing to dislike him is your right but people acting like he wasnt a free agent and had the right to make a decision kills me

Yes he chose to play with 2 hall of famers in their "prime" and he just so happens to keep winning Most Valuable Player awards while being

If anything that elevates his legacy that not only was he the MVP on a team where he was clearly the best player but he still is on a team that has multiple all stars and HOFs

That would be fair if the NBA would stop making it seem like he's a solo show... during halftime during one of these playoff shows Charles Barkley literally said " If Lebron doesn't play spectacular every night the heat would struggle" Against the D-Rose, Deng, & Hinrich less bulls..... nonetheless my face immediately went to :x.

Every Great player has had a great supporting cast, but to tell you the truth NO ONE has ever had a year plus plot to design it. he deserves all the criticism he gets for that move right now.... Because the more they win the more that criticism will turn to praise because that's the way sports goes

the summer after that loss to the mavs Everyone doubted If Lebron had what it took to really be the best.... He wins one ring and suddenly he's in the realm of MJ... winning cures all

 

[scotthallwithapick]

Its not just limited to Bass and Ibaka,

If Lebron is an elite jump shooter then Chris Bosh, Kevin Durant, Kevin Garnett, Stephen Curry, CP3, Dirk, Carl Landry,Duncan, Hickson, Andray Blatche, Vucevic Paul Millsap, Melo, Carlos Boozer, Kobe, Klay, Parker, Calderon, Johnson are elite jump shooters too.

Considering all those guys have same or a higher jump shooting % than Lebron.

Thats list is like 20 deep. Thats a broad definition of elite.

1) Some of those are only elite from a certain area on the floor rather than both mid range/long range
2) 20 players in the NBA is Top 5%

 

[Jordan8]

Hmm no. MVP award is given to the team with the best record. The MVP should be renamed because it doesn't live up to its name.

Take away bosh or wade and lebron will not win the MVP regardless of his season stat. Simply because the heat won't have the best record without those guys.

They have the best record simply because they're a stacked team and they also play on an easier division and conference.

Most valuable to me is cp3 or kobe.

But the Heat didnt even havvvvvvvvvv the best record last year water yew talking about?

And Lebron has won the same amount of MVPs with "a stacked team" and without one. Where did you come from?

 

[Jordan8]

Not too derail the thread much more than it already is but do you think bosh will still be a HOFer? I think his numbers now are pretty average since he took the lesser role to play with the heat. Do you think that will hurt his HOF chances? Say they only win one more title together. Cause lets face it if they win 6 like bron bron said Chalmers will be a HOFer

He will probably end up being a career 20/8 guy with a couple of rings and 10+ all star appearances I def think he's a HOF.

When he will get in there i dont know but he's HOF worthy

 

[mister friendly]

Its not just limited to Bass and Ibaka,

If Lebron is an elite jump shooter then Chris Bosh, Kevin Durant, Kevin Garnett, Stephen Curry, CP3, Dirk, Carl Landry,Duncan, Hickson, Andray Blatche, Vucevic Paul Millsap, Melo, Carlos Boozer, Kobe, Klay, Parker, Calderon, Johnson are elite jump shooters too.

Considering all those guys have same or a higher jump shooting % than Lebron.

Thats list is like 20 deep. Thats a broad definition of elite.

1) Some of those are only elite from a certain area on the floor rather than both mid range/long range
2) 20 players in the NBA is Top 5%

Thats 20 players from a QUICK SCAN.....guys who were in the top of field goal %

I didn't even look at guys who are great shooters but cant get the rim like Ryan Anderson and Andrea Bargnani. Those guys have better jump shooting % than Lebron.

I'm sure if I really dig its at least 30 to 40 guys who have the same or better jump shooting % than Lebron.

So in conclusion Lebron is not an elite jump shooter.

 

[al3xis]

And Lebron never had a system in Cleveland that was tailored to his strengths?

I said compare Lebron when he wasn't on a "stacked" team and therefore had to carry most of the offensive load like Melo did. I think thats a fair comparison.

I do watch their games, I play watch 90 percent because I like to do other things besides sit on my couch and watch the NBA zealously but I watch enough.

In the games I watched Lebron is does shoot alot of in NBA terms "uncontested" jumpers., he does get better looks than the other superstars because of the way his team is set up.

Durant isn't out of shape or a sloth and he still has alot of his shots contested. So you can save that argument, its his team, thats making him look like a great shooter now not him.

Cleveland was tailored to his weaknesses, they never ever ran. I don't know what you mean with that.

Go look at when Carmelo has shot best from 3...1/2 year with D'Antoni and this season. Both when he was in primary spread pick and roll offenses and spotting up more than usual. So again, why go the system route and prop Melo up when he's getting clean 3 pt look after clean look this year off of penetration or as a trailer on the break? Maybe you just can't grasp what you're watching. Melo had to carry an offense last year - use those stats. He was a big accessory this year, not the overwhelming focal point - that didn't occur until the playoffs, and let me know those shooting %'s? Melo is a better shooter, but you're logic is poor.

Kevin Durant is 6'11 at least. People may get up into his body but he's still creating separation that others can't against 6'7 defenders. Are we discrediting his shooting ability because he can get a clean look 9/10 times and never been in danger of getting his shot blocked?

 

[trynafeelmink]

Cleveland was tailored to his weaknesses, they never ever ran. I don't know what you mean with that.

Go look at when Carmelo has shot best from 3...1/2 year with D'Antoni and this season. Both when he was in primary spread pick and roll offenses and spotting up more than usual. So again, why go the system route and prop Melo up when he's getting clean 3 pt look after clean look this year off of penetration or as a trailer on the break? Maybe you just can't grasp what you're watching. Melo had to carry an offense last year - use those stats. He was a big accessory this year, not the overwhelming focal point - that didn't occur until the playoffs, and let me know those shooting %'s? Melo is a better shooter, but you're logic is poor.

Kevin Durant is 6'11 at least. People may get up into his body but he's still creating separation that others can't against 6'7 defenders. Are we discrediting his shooting ability because he can get a clean look 9/10 times and never been in danger of getting his shot blocked?

Fam Melo was an Accessory This year? Do you know how many times i Yelled at my ******g Television watching woodson iso melo on the left wing and let him go to work. It was much less thanlast year but i'm willing to bet that offense was top 3 in iso's for a player. I understand your trying to prove a point for Bron but your crazy if you don't think Melo carried a majority of that offense.

 

[mister friendly]

/thread

"Superteams" have been constructed before. Just by old men in suits in the back office.

I dont know why a people act like its a problem when players do it....I mean I think I do but I dont want to derail the thread.

Choosing to dislike him is your right but people acting like he wasnt a free agent and had the right to make a decision kills me

Yes he chose to play with 2 hall of famers in their "prime" and he just so happens to keep winning Most Valuable Player awards while being

If anything that elevates his legacy that not only was he the MVP on a team where he was clearly the best player but he still is on a team that has multiple all stars and HOFs

Water yew talking about dude?

Past 'superteams' were developed through the draft, trades and free agency.

Not through basically reverse collusion by players.

They cheated the other players in the union by taking below market value deals. If you don't think that effects other players, you're foolish.

But anyways this discussion isn't about the "The Decision" but you're welcome to rationalize your foolishness

 

[al3xis]

Fam Melo was an Accessory This year? Do you know how many times i Yelled at my ******g Television watching woodson iso melo on the left wing and let him go to work. It was much less thanlast year but i'm willing to bet that offense was top 3 in iso's for a player. I understand your trying to prove a point for Bron but your crazy if you don't think Melo carried a majority of that offense.

When he shot well from 3, he was not carrying anything. That's my point. Everything was off of playing 2 PG's and spacing the floor and him being a mismatch at PF. System benefited him greatly.

Melo isolation %:
2010-2011: 36.9%
2011-2012: 34.3%
2012-2013: 26.3%

significant decrease this season.

 

[mister friendly]

And Lebron never had a system in Cleveland that was tailored to his strengths?

I said compare Lebron when he wasn't on a "stacked" team and therefore had to carry most of the offensive load like Melo did. I think thats a fair comparison.

I do watch their games, I play watch 90 percent because I like to do other things besides sit on my couch and watch the NBA zealously but I watch enough.

In the games I watched Lebron is does shoot alot of in NBA terms "uncontested" jumpers., he does get better looks than the other superstars because of the way his team is set up.

Durant isn't out of shape or a sloth and he still has alot of his shots contested. So you can save that argument, its his team, thats making him look like a great shooter now not him.

Cleveland was tailored to his weaknesses, they never ever ran. I don't know what you mean with that.

Go look at when Carmelo has shot best from 3...1/2 year with D'Antoni and this season. Both when he was in primary spread pick and roll offenses and spotting up more than usual. So again, why go the system route and prop Melo up when he's getting clean 3 pt look after clean look this year off of penetration or as a trailer on the break? Maybe you just can't grasp what you're watching. Melo had to carry an offense last year - use those stats. He was a big accessory this year, not the overwhelming focal point - that didn't occur until the playoffs, and let me know those shooting %'s? Melo is a better shooter, but you're logic is poor.

Kevin Durant is 6'11 at least. People may get up into his body but he's still creating separation that others can't against 6'7 defenders. Are we discrediting his shooting ability because he can get a clean look 9/10 times and never been in danger of getting his shot blocked?

I perfectly grasp what I'm seeing and I don't need to watch 90 % of the Heat games to understand it.

I'm going to explain to you again what I'm saying.

I'm saying in Miami, he has the best teammates in the NBA, arguably the best of all time. Lebron doesn't have to carry the Heat's offense load all the time in terms of scoring for them to be successful.

You can't trap Lebron because if you more than likely another top 15 offensive player will get an open look.

Melo doesn't have that, the teammates Melo has for the Knicks are more comparable to the teammates Lebron had his last few years with the Cavaliers.

Thats why I said compare Melo stats to Lebron's last year in Cleveland.

Also about Cleveland never running. The Cavaliers pace was 25th in 2010. The 2013 Heat pace is 23rd. Thats a nominal difference.

Melo was definitely not just an accesory this year.

Hows a guy just an accessory when he leads the NBA in usage?

Come on man!

 

[al3xis]

I'm not arguing that Carmelo isn't a better shooter, he is. As are many people.

But the system in which he was in this year enhanced his shooting %'s, just like LeBron.

When the Knicks were playing well, Carmelo was not an overbearing focal point. That didn't happen until they went into iso-mode - when the Knicks were rolling he lived off of a spaced floor with guys who moved the ball and a PG who got into the lane.

LeBron was 20-25 under Mike Brown and one of the best athletes in NBA history but still rough around the edges. That was when he should have been running all the time, possessions into the hundreds - not playing at a snails pace and constructed like the 1992 Knicks. Miami isn't playing fast now, I wasn't comparing the two- they're older and LeBron himself is more skilled and acquainted with operating in the half court. My issue with pace in Cleveland is at that point of LeBron's career.

If it's only a teammate thing in Miami, why is LeBron still 30/7/7 on 55% shooting in 27 games without Wade with a 23-4 record? You can at least admit he's improved his skill and that has the possibility to stand on it's own right?

 

[nflowshoe]

Kobe-- accused of rape, was a big part in the reason why him and Shaq only won 3 rings together, not a great teammate and at times selfish.
Jordan- gambling problem, a know Jerk, quit on his team after the first 3-peat(for reasons that are covered up) bad teammate, came back and played for the wizards to just "up" his stock with the team, Not a good teammate, doesn't do anything for his community.
Lebron- Left his first team during free agency to play with 2 stars,good teammate, to passive at times
Melo- Demanded a trade to the knicks during season, track record for weed, doesn't pass the ball enough.

above is a list of what the media has reported about the above stars, out of the list Lebron is probably the most hated. It doesn't add up.

 

[Jordan8]

Water yew talking about dude?

Past 'superteams' were developed through the draft, trades and free agency.

Not through basically reverse collusion by players.

They cheated the other players in the union by taking below market value deals. If you don't think that effects other players, you're foolish.

But anyways this discussion isn't about the "The Decision" but you're welcome to rationalize your foolishness

What exactly were Bosh & James?

Oh are you one of those people who think "players should just do what theyre told and play?"

Cause it was socially acceptable when Danny Ainge put together a superteam and Jerry Buss & company did it numerous times.

But not when these 3 dudes did it. Would it make you sleep better if I told you Pat Riley constructed the whole thing? Would that make it more "normal" for ya?

 

[antidope]

That's like the third time you've made some roundabout comment about me being stupid. It's obvious that I'm dealing with a child. It's cool though you win, even though so many people agreed with me and no one agreed with you, you're clearly the smartest person in this thread and we're not worthy of you gracing us with your superior basketball knowledge. I marvel at your ability to constantly change your argument when facts are posted (first its no sports pundits and now it's no coaches), but Eric Spolstra has agreed with the sentiment that he's an elite shooter (inb4 so. That's his coach like he hasn't spent 30 plus years around pro basketball). I've been baffled into submission, you win because not only do you know basketball better than me, you know it better than professional basketball journalists and coaches.

For my benefit can you please point out where you saw rondo being called an elite shooter? I won't even bother with lack of understanding in regards to the shots haslem is taking vs the ones LeBrons taking.