let this thread die (NYK)

[8pm at msg]

I think once Shumpert comes back and has his legs, he should start. It'll give us someone else who can at least bring the ball up when Lin gets pressured and keep J.R. on the bench as our spark plug so we won't have to sacrifice that.

And while Amare didn't play great, that was probably the most active I've seen him look on in a while during the first half.

 

[cels the younggod]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Originally Posted by tim teufel

Originally Posted by HarlemToTheBronx



I don't think anyone is saying Melo was good, just that it's irrational to put as much blame on him as Some people have. That's just plain lazy.

Do u consider melo a top five player in the league? Cause if u do he has to get blamed if he can't even carry us for one single game. That is what top players do carry their team on any given night. When was the last time u can say melo carried us for one single game?

Is this real life?!?!?!

Your Starting PG had 8 T.O's and when he wasn't turning the ball over he was standing 30 feet away from the basket afraid to attack.

Mario Chalmers & Norris Cole punched him in the mouth and he didn't fight back.  Add that to the fact that Tyson got Abused by Bosh and ... Welp There You Have It.  As much as you want to, you can't really blame #7 for this L.  Besides Mia being a much better team, the two people who your fan base have stated are the hearts of your squad didn't bring it tonight.

You just gotta ignore the crap some people say in this thread. Lin is the new 'God' in NYC and can do no wrong. Melo has to take all the blame.Last night Baron Davis shot the ball horrible but played way better than Lin. Im not saying he should start or he is a better player just that he played better than Lin last night. Lin got murked out there from the start. 1-11 from the field and 8 t.o. From the starting point guard you can't win like that. Mario Chalmers kept the pressure on him and he kept picking up his basic !$# dribble way to early.

 

[nicelikechrist]

Nah, tim teufel is right.

PG position shot the ball 1-18, thats Melo's fault.
Team had 19 turnovers, Melo had one, but lets be serious, the other 18 were his fault as well
Shumpert was out, so was Jorts, Melo's doing I suppose
Melo was guarding Chris Bosh so it's his fault that Bosh was unstoppable
Lin shot 1-11 and was lucky enough to have some BS calls go his way so he could score some pity points at the line, Carmelo got inside his head and punked him pre-game

 

[mronegative]

[h1]What Are The Knicks Going To Do About Carmelo Anthony?[/h1]

By Bomani Jones - Contributor

Following a loss to the Miami Heat on Thursday, the Knicks are now 1-2 since Carmelo Anthony returned from injury. So what are Jeremy Lin and Mike D'Antoni going to do to get the Knicks best player on track?

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Feb 24, 2012 - Thursday night, in the Knicks' 102-88 loss to Miami, Carmelo Anthony was forgettable. His 19 points led New York, and they're the most he's scored since returning to the lineup on Monday night. They also marked Melo's first three-game stretch without breaking 20 points since November of 2008. Counting the Utah game when he got hurt and the one before, he's in the midst of the longest period between 20 point games in his career.

You would never know this scanning the New York sports sections Friday morning. The headlines are all about Jeremy Lin, replete with the New York Post calling him "Lin-ept." Just a year ago, New York was so excited to have Anthony, it pretended a man with "West Baltimore" tattooed on his arm was really from New York. Monday night, he returned after missing eight games due to injury with the big question being whether he's willing to hold back so as to make room for a guy who's played 11 NBA games anyone actually remembers.

Even if Melo wasn't good enough Thursday, he's still the Knicks best player. His media circus seems like an eternity ago, as do the days when he averaged nearly 30 points per game. But he's still the guy who would have to lead New York, even if only on the scoreboard, if they want to make the second round of the playoffs for the first time in 12 years. That's how it should be for the man making nearly $20 million per season.

But the reputation, and maybe even legacy, of a man who scored over 20 points per game in the 2008 Olympics is out on its feet, and Thursday night's game against Miami won't make things any better. The Knicks are headed into the All-Star break with something to play for, and plenty of eyes will be on Anthony while it happens.

Anyone watching Melo play against the Nets and Hawks noticed how timid he was, as if he was afraid to step on anyone's toes. And while he did more against Miami, even while Lin was being overwhelmed by the Heat's pressure, that wasn't the alpha scorer we saw in Denver.

Since when have five-time All-Stars been expected to play second fiddle to recent D-Leaguers? Forget any clever pun. The notion is patently insane.

But instead of stating the obvious: that Melo has struggled, why have so few people asked why? Unless he forgot how to play basketball during the lockout, the problem is bigger than him. And it just might be bigger than anything Linsanity could fix.

***

Here's how confused the basketball world is about Melo -- he's averaging fewer points than he has since 2005, has the highest assist percentage of his career and has attempted fewer field goals per game than any years in his career but two ... and has been deemed selfish. It's an illogical notion, but understandable to anyone who has seen Melo with the ball on the wing doing what he does best: patiently waiting for his chance at the right moment to attack a defender and score.

It's been called "ball stopping" and everything else, but it was called something else before Melo got to New York -- effective. He was a "ball stopper" when the Knicks did whatever necessary to acquire him, and he was a "ball stopper" when he became a star in Denver. But selfish? He hasn't complained about his shots being down, nor has he expressed any jealousy about Lin's emergence. Plus, let's not forget Melo found a way to coexist with Allen Iverson and J.R. Smith at the same time.

The problem isn't his mentality. He just hasn't been as good. It's not how many shots he takes, but the quality of those looks. Check this chart from HoopData.com.

Long of the short: this year, and since he's gotten to New York, Melo's taking less shots near the rim and more from three-point range. This season, he's shooting worse from the field than ever and, while chucking up more threes than ever, carrying his lowest three-point field goal percentage since 2007. According to Synergy Sports, while playing less in isolation this season than he typically did in Denver, he's taken nearly twice as many threes per game in iso as he did in 2010 ... and made all of three. Since he started playing in Mike D'Antoni's vaunted system, he's doing more of what he does the worst and less of his best.

Could Lin do anything to correct that? Has he gotten more touches for Melo in the post, where Synergy says he's eighth in the league in points per play? Has Lin's emergence allowed Anthony to handle the ball more on the pick and roll, where Melo's second in the NBA in PPP? Is Lin even in a position to make it easier for Melo? Linsanity's done a lot for many, from David Stern to Steve Novak, but it's done nothing for the Knicks' best player.

Lost in the glow of Lin's star has been an honest discussion of his skills as a point guard. Many asked whether Anthony could fit in with Lin, but when has that ever been a question to ask about a good point guard? The better question would be -- and still is -- whether Lin could get the best out of Carmelo. Many asked if Melo could stay out of the way. They should have asked if Melo could lead the way, and what Lin could do to make that happen.

And what exactly has D'Antoni done to work with Melo's talents? He surely has access to the same Synergy stats as the rest of us basketball nerds. He can see how Melo's game changed as soon as he got to Gotham, and how that hasn't been for the better. He also must know his system has always been friendlier to point guards and shooters than slashers and guys with inside-out games. D'Antoni has to recognize that regardless of Melo's current health or confidence level, there's no way he stopped being one of the best scorers in the league at age 27.

And if Melo continues to struggle after the All-Star break as he did before it, with the postseason ahead and a chance to avoid a first-round matchup with the Bulls or Heat, something has to change.

This was why D'Antoni's job was in danger before Linsanity -- his bosses moved heaven and earth for a very expensive player, and D'Antoni did nothing to maximize a return on that investment. The timing of the Knicks return to Earth coincides with Anthony's return, but nothing has truly changed since he left. They've changed for the Knicks, certainly, since they finally have someone to play point and reason for optimism. But if the Knicks continue to misuse Melo, that might be for naught.

***

The backlash Melo's fought all season was almost preordained after the madness surrounding the trade that sent him to New York. He made the trade difficult by making it clear he only wanted to go one place, thereby minimizing Denver's bargaining power, but they still forced the Knicks to gut their roster the way a team does when it has a chance to acquire a superstar.

The problem is they weren't trading for a superstar. They acquired Melo, a dynamite scorer with a helluva reputation. But he's still a better player than Jeremy Lin or anyone else on New York's roster. He's still the man who will have to carry the Knicks if they want to get to the second round of the playoffs for the first time in 12 years.

But he wasn't a guy that would flourish no matter the system, someone who could control games in more than one way. He's a scorer, first and last. He needed to be put in situations where he could be successful. His game wasn't adaptable to any style of play. He needed space and time to operate, and the flexibility to go inside and out. There are better perimeter players and those with superior post games, but no one combined the two like Anthony. To take one away would be to make him ordinary, just as LeBron James would be if forced to become a long-range gunner.

If Melo only puts up 21.5 points per game, as he is now, is he more than Kevin Martin with a cooler name? Unless he starts playing more like a young Ron Artest, scoring as he has this season doesn't make him a franchise player. It probably wouldn't make him an All-Star, were it not for fan voting. In this way, he has been exposed.

But this should not be damning to him. A player that talented with the ball in his hands shouldn't have to be much more than a scorer on offense. He's proven himself a willing passer this season, making it hard to believe he has to stagnate an offense to be effective. He was brought to the Garden to fill it up, and he gets paid too much money for that not to be his team's primary focus. Seeing how Amar'e Stoudemire has as much lift as Zach Randolph these days, Anthony remains the only truly special player on New York's roster.

And in this "players' league," it's foolish of a team and coach not to get the most out of their rarest, most valuable and most expensive commodity.

Should Anthony be able to fit in any system, at his price? That doesn't matter now that the Knicks have him on the payroll. All that matters now is figuring what's best for him, because that is ultimately what will be best for the team.

Those jobs, traditionally, fall on the head coach or point guard. If they can't figure it out before the playoffs roll around, Lin isn't the phenomenon he's purported to be, and the only real winner from Linsanity was a man whose job shouldn't have been saved.

The loser? The Knicks' true star, the man who's not complaining, but has every right to.

his fault, he didn't want to play in NJ.

 

[redd spyder]

im about to customize a knicks shirt that says blame me with the number 7 on it

 

[abutta13]

not really sure how u can put that one on melo because by the time he started taking bad shots so was everyone else. lin had his worst game and just wasnt seeing the floor like he usually does. there were several times when he drove that he had a man open but he just kept settling for that girly little floater. he got brought back down to earth with this game. im just suprised it wasnt worse with only jr and novak having decent games.

 

[lovesit]

Melo is gonna be on First Take now.

 

[tim teufel]

Great article mronegative. Basically what I been saying all along

 

[duba169]

SAS and Bomani have been disgusted since this started. and i think race has alot to do with it. they both seem disgusted every time they mention lin's name. and SAS is supposed to be  aknicks fan? 

maybe they are pretending the lin is tim tebow i dunno.
this guy SAS defends isiah thomas to this day but always called for walsh to be fired.

defending melo is pretty ridiculous too. He wouldnt wait, we gutted the team, and he isnt showing anything in the win loss column. tahts it. stop crying for him. hes making 20 mil a year. its not all his fault but he wanted this and needs to man up instead of posting pictures comparing himself to Ali who went to jail for his beliefs.

 

[maxelite]

You want to get into an uptempo game against one of the fastest teams in the league?


I'm not saying playing "7 seconds or less" was the answer. But I wouldve liked to have seen SOME easy points. And those arent coming in the half court against Miami. 

Turning the ball over in a deliberate half court offense is what Miami feeds off of more than anything. They're trying to stifle you in the half court, force a turnover or bad shot, and then get out and run. So why let them get a chance to set up their half court D all the time? 

I think a more frenetic pace would have favored the Knicks especially considering Bosh was going HAM on the pick and pop and Lin couldnt beat the pick and roll defense. 

 

[al3xis]

I just expect effort, that's all. I'm pretty sure he was responsible for at least 3 possessions in the first half going the Heat's way just from being lazy. Don't care about the 7-20, wasn't a pretty a game from anyone. But when your peers are flying around the court making plays without needing the basketball and you don't...that's an issue. (if you're really a top level basketball player).

Can't get that effort out of Melo & Amare and expect to do well against the top tier teams. I know it was the 2nd of a back to back on the road, but when that's been your rep for 8-9 years....something has to change about that.

 

[lildisciple111]

Melo was saying all the right things on first take

 

[mronegative]

On what planet does that Bomani article have anything to do with race?
Quit transferring your feelings about SAS onto him.

 

[tim teufel]

Anyone just catch melo on first take? He added his name above d wade lmao son can't be serious. Sounds like he ain't happy with d Antoni system no shock there haha

 

[duba169]

I wasn't talking bout the article. He was on first take the whole week Lin stuff was happening.

Maybe I'm transferring. Maybe they are transferring their tebow hate on to Lin.

One good thing about yesterday is that Tyson wasn't in foul trouble.

I don't know how Lin will be able to go against the heat in a 7 game series. Or even a great point guard like rose. Think about it chalmers and Cole can literally use all their energy on defense. When u have those big 3 that can go insane offensively...

Unlike the bulls I would think we have much better offensive players to retaliate but I dunno. Our stars just aren't playing like stars

 

[tim teufel]

As bad as we played yesterday we were still in that game. I think we match up well with the heat if we cut our turnovers and our stars have decent games. Our defense has gotten much better and jr and Novak are instant offense off the bench.

 

[mronegative]

We let them get into the fastbreak way too much. I know we can get more responsible with that ball... (and that might take starting Davis over Lin in a Heat game) and it definitely changes things with Shump back.

As much as that's my dude, I have no trust in Fields. They give him the Rondo treatment, because they know he can't shoot. Then they call cookies whenever he tries to dribble. He still can't shoot and still can't dribble or pass that well, but he got better. As much as he always brings the energy on the boards and defense that Melo and Amar'e don't, he hurts the offense in a way Shump and JR don't.

Fields' hurts penetration, helps crowd the paint, helps the other team double Lin, is the rare black hole that won't shoot the ball at all, but will hold it with no real plans at all...but he can backdoor cut and he always tries hard on the boards and he has good chemistry with Lin and he can hit that midrange or short shot...if he was a PF, that'd be great, but he's not.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Originally Posted by NiceLikeChrist

Nah, tim teufel is right.

PG position shot the ball 1-18, thats Melo's fault.
Team had 19 turnovers, Melo had one, but lets be serious, the other 18 were his fault as well
Shumpert was out, so was Jorts, Melo's doing I suppose
Melo was guarding Chris Bosh so it's his fault that Bosh was unstoppable
Lin shot 1-11 and was lucky enough to have some BS calls go his way so he could score some pity points at the line, Carmelo got inside his head and punked him pre-game

 

[duba169]

yeah its pretty clear by now that fields isnt a guard 

would like him to be our backup small forward long term maybe

noticed fields has been having much better first halfs too.dunno where his 3 point shot went last year he was money.

we just have so many issues. not even like crazy problems. issues that can be fixed. the talent is there. i just know that this coach is not gonna be the guy to put everything together. he will not be able to make the adjustments, properly prepare, or manage the ego's.

it always feels like hes a step behind.

1-18 

 

 

[GaBeGRaMz]

This thread.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Amar'e is done

It's going to be really painful watching this dude over the next 3 years

 

[tim teufel]

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Amar'e is done

It's going to be really painful watching this dude over the next 3 years

looks psychological to me tho. the vibe he shows on the court its like he lost the love to play ball. sons body language is of someone that just does not care anymore.

 

[duba169]

Melo has terrible body language too but I doubt he lost love for the game. Amare looks more physical than mental to me. Bit of both

 

[losalmighty]

I actually saw some nice things from Amar'e last night. Maybe that's just me holding out hope for my favorite player. His shot will fall come playoff time.

 

[bangtcg]

Originally Posted by tim teufel

Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Amar'e is done

It's going to be really painful watching this dude over the next 3 years

looks psychological to me tho. the vibe he shows on the court its like he lost the love to play ball. sons body language is of someone that just does not care anymore.

Send that butt hole to a pilgrimage.  Airborne his tired self to mecca.  I hope the New York media pressure cooks his weak performance.