let this thread die (NYK)

[pr0phecy718]

..... 

 posting for later

 

[flatbushfiyah23]

Originally Posted by DubA169

We are in win now mode I couldn't care less about his development

You get Nash and go all out for two years. Try to win a chip. Then we are one year before the main three players contracts expire. Go from there

I agree we are in win now mode but I am not so sure Nash is getting us to that championship level right now. I just don't get why some fans don't have the patience for Lin to develop at PG. We have a young PG who is actually good and capable of starting in this league. I believe we can develop Lin with a seasoned veteran on the team and still "win now".

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Classic GR8 post.

Didn't read.

 

[the gr8]

wow my bad that was alot... Im good for at least one of those every year right before the draft/free agency starts

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Double.

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Originally Posted by FlatbushFiyah23

Originally Posted by DubA169

We are in win now mode I couldn't care less about his development

You get Nash and go all out for two years. Try to win a chip. Then we are one year before the main three players contracts expire. Go from there

I agree we are in win now mode but I am not so sure Nash is getting us to that championship level right now. I just don't get why some fans don't have the patience for Lin to develop at PG. We have a young PG who is actually good and capable of starting in this league. I believe we can develop Lin with a seasoned veteran on the team and still "win now".

This.

I honestly don't get how people are just ready to just let Lin walk. Why not grow that talent instead of just writing it off?

About to read GR8's post. Be back Tuesday.

 

[duba169]

i dont want to get rid of lin.

but i also dont want to bring in kidd specifically to teach lin instead of getting nash. I wouldnt base the entire decision of who we get on how it impacts jeremy lin.

and of course we dont know if nash would get us to a title. He probably wouldnt. But its a better shot with nash around. FAR better.

its hard to grow talent when we dont have young stars. Amare might be finished man. nash around would at least probably stretch out amares playing days

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Get Nash, if you can't offer Kidd the minimum.

 

[redd spyder]

Originally Posted by THE GR8

at yall calling J Kidd washed up like he didnt just win a championship as a starter last season

for the team the knicks are runnig under woodson with the offense ran through melo id actually prefer kidd over nash because he is better at keeping the ball movement and running the offense in the half court than nash is, which is really the main thing with melo. Hes also a better defender which i like because at this point in their careers theyre both kind of defensive liabilities, but with nash at this point youre basically playing with one man down. I mean !!## it id be happy with either, but we do have tyson chandler and if we have jason kidd running the point (although 2 years older) i find it hard to believe that last years mavs would be much better than wed be if they are at all.

anyway i havent posted in here much but ive been keeping up with the thread so dont think im sleeping on nt even when im not active but i know yall want a rant so here is my .02

!!## jeremy lin. Im over him and there are better pgs on the market. He had a nice stretch where he was extremely turnover prone and defenses had him figured out before he got injured. I think that the ony reason we wanna make him our franchise pg is because he sells jerseys, tickets, media hype, and msg stock which is the typical dolan bull %*@* that i cant stand. Good story but good story does not always = good option

The less sexy player we should put our chips in for this summer is goran dragic

I love goran dragic. While id like a kidd, nash, or argentina id prefer to go for a guy who has a chance of being our guy for the future and i think the only player with that potential that we can very well get if we choose to do so is dragic. The guy backed up steve nash for 3 seasons so he has learned from the best, he is young, smart, tall, athletic and Put up better numbers than lin this season as a starter. He has been effective over a much longer time frame as nashs backup for 3 seasons and even more this season. Hes a free agent this summer and with the emergence of kyle lowry, its unlikely they match many offers for him. This is a player that i can see emerging as a potential star next season as a starter given the right circumstances and i think that can be here

However if houston keeps dragic and chooses to get rid of lowry (less probable) i still say we go after lowry who i also think as a star in the making. The way i see it, houston has 2 young pgs who %*@* all over any of ours and we would be foolish to not go after one of them.

The next thing is that the knicks need to put pride to the side and part ways with amare. I love amare, he started this movement, and i have kept out hope for a year and a half that him and melo will mesh but they just can not. We will not win a ring with melo and amare as teamates and amare is clearly the more expendable of the 2.

Melo played better than anyone inthe league and the knicks went 18-6 to cLose the season. Im not stupid and think we can win a ring like that but i also know we wont be winning one with amare. He is losing his explosiveness, is a drfensive liability, but unlike people who forget how dominant e was last year (cause peoples basketball memories seem to be worse than goldfish word to jkidd) amare still has A LOT to offer and i know on the right team he can be the force he was last season. However we need to get rid of him because him and melo totally do not mesh. Amare is a penotrator who needa to dominate the ball and attak one on one and that cannot work with melO. The knicks need a big man who can pass the ball and feed tyson down low or melo on the wing and also have a post game/ mid range while many people think amares contranct makes him expendable i thought of a trade that could solve all our needs...

We get dragic from houston in a sign and trade where we also recieve luis scola, camby, and our first rounder back while giving houston amare and lin. This trade gets us our pg of the future in dragic and a mid first rounder which would be HUGE. Scola,although not nearly the talent that amare is makes the salarys work and is a much better fit at pf for the knicks because of his passing and offensive touch. Camby is also there for salary purposes but would also be an ideal backup for tyson in ny and i am sure he would play inspired bball making a final title run back in ny where e made his 1st title run. IMO houston does this trade despite salary concerns for a few reasons.

One is that they are a fringe playoff team that needs to take a risk on a #1 option to get them over the top. They. Are a win now team as their trade for kevin martin shows and the emergence of kule lowry. The rockets are also an ideal fit for amare because he again becomes the #1 option giving him the offensive freedom that he needs like he had in ny, and the rockets have the essentials necessary to get the most out of amare. They have the pg in lowry (or dragic if they choose that route) to run the pick and roll with stat, they have a shooter and a true #2 option in martin for stat to kick it out to on double teams, solid role players, and a center like dalembert who compensates for amares defensive woes. They could even draft a center like fab melo since they would still have their draft pick to work with.

Due to all that amare brings to houston, and because they are a borderline playoff team without him, i can see houson taking the risk of amares salary especially because scola is older than amare and has a bad salary as well although he is not as good.

Other trade scenarios i like are amare, lin, fields for rondo/kg (sign and trade), or amare/lin for deron (just saw that on here and i liked it

) but those are obviously less realistic especially because they are both in our division (especially the celtics one)

Next order of business would be to get rid of landry fields broke #@% jumper. Over him as well, the way i see it he serves no purpose. Despite what yall say players with jr smiths scoring ability at his price tag do not come along and if he accepts his option you keep him because we have little money or draft picks to find other legit scoring options. For me jr's price makes up for the fact that he makes you wanna put a bullet in your mouth every now and than. Beggers cant be choosers

I would love to trade landry back to northern cal or some %*@* for their late first rounder considering landry is from the area and they are looking for swinggmen in his mold.

We have jr to come off the bench an i think it is all agreed that shumpert is our future at the position making landry the odd man out (his jumper doesnt help his case). However with shumperts acl this is where i would like to knicks to use their mle for the what can be the best value move of the summer.

Signing ray allen. Ray ray would be an ideal 2 guard for us in our championship push. He would come in right away and start at the 2 with jr and shump backing him up and right around the time ray is ready to call it quits, iman will be ready to take the reign as starter and well move forward with him and jr. Ray is also perfect in that he has big game, clutch shooting, championship experience, he is a locker room leader and with guys like him and chandler and potentially jason kidd there would be no possible way for melo not to be 110% focused on chasing that elusive ring. And of course ray allen is the best 3 point shooter of all time and we need that for melo double teams (and a ridiculous upgrade over landry)

I do not like this team winning a ring and i dont see management making these kind of moves to improve our team because of the controversy/fan criticism we would take by trading big names like lin, amare, and fields, for guys like goran dragic and luis scola. But i figured i might as well share my feelings anyway. When we werent going anywhere before 99 we made similar moves in giving up big names starks and oakley for littler known spree and camby and while it cost ernie grunfeld his job it gave us another title chance. If knick warrior/legends starks/oak can be traded for the greater good of the team so should he the same for amare and lin who haveny experience 1/10 of what those 2 did but it probably wont. Either way i would feel MUCH better moving forward towards competing with miami with a roster of

PG: Dragic
SG: Ray
SF: Melo
PF: Scola
C: Tyson
6: Shump
7: JR
8: Kidd
9: Camby
10: Novak
11: Jeffries
12: Jorts
Plus the #16 pick which we could potentially use as an eventual replacement for scola like Henson or Moultrie or maybe an athletic swingman like Moe Harkless or Terrence Ross

Anyway there is my rant take it as you will, i think that team right there is a contender talent wise and how they mesh unlike what we have now an i do not think any of it is entirely unrealistic if we focus on the right things

As for the NBA finals i gotta give it to lebron son played his #@% off all season long and earned that ring, didnt think he had it is him. As for the fatman im sure yall Team NYK OGs like myself now my feelings

Knick Fan #34 for life

 

[ballinsam23]

we have a 3 year window to win a championship, and Nash AUTOMATICALLY makes a contender. I mean he led that bum $$% suns team to a .500 record.

I would also take Dragic in a heartbeat kid is my 2nd favorite PG in the league outside of Rubio and definitely a star in the making.


What about Lin/Amare/Fields for Deron Williams?

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by DubA169

Yeah. I see us getting screwed with the timing of things. Nba can just delay us with appeals they don't even have to win

Stern been *%#+!** up left and right. Basketball reasons.

They can only appeal once. This aint some filbuster tactic. I don't think there's ever been a time where the NBA lost a case and didn't appeal. It's common when the law has to be involved with sports. Them Saints that got suspended appealed, the coach appealed. It's just the prudent thing to do.

Even if this gets pushed back a few weeks and isn't settled until mid July I don't see how we're screwed. It'll be a long summer to gauge who we want to sign here anyway. Training camp don't start for awhile. I believe we're more focused on retaining certain players and the draft.

TheGR8, I don't care if he won a title as a starter last year. Kidd is washed up, extra detergent. Kidd is hobbled beyond repair at this point. Son needs to retire. Nash still out there looking like he aint gonna break down any time soon. If it's between the two Nash at this point in time is the obvious choice.

 

[you go boy]

Originally Posted by Ballinsam23


What about Lin/Amare/Fields/Douglas/Chandler for Deron Williams?

fixed

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by Ballinsam23

What about Lin/Amare/Fields for Deron Williams?

I'm telling yall these STAT deals are not happening until his last year. Nobody wants uninsured knees. Also why would you want to deal him to the Nets?

Originally Posted by you go boy

Originally Posted by Ballinsam23

What about Lin/Amare/Fields/Douglas/Chandler for Deron Williams?

fixed

Boy you even crazier.

 

[pr0phecy718]

and give the russian what he wants? steal knick fans 

 

[pr0phecy718]

So how do the Knicks sign Steve Nash with only the $3 million mid-level? The answer is simple: they don’t.

Instead, look for the Knicks to talk to several veteran point guards, from Jason Kidd to Raymond Felton, and possibly former Sixth Man of the Year Lamar Odom or veteran shooter Ray Allen, with the MLE and BAE in their pocket. Will they be enough to make a significant move? That remains to be seen. That depends on whether some of these veterans want to be part of taking on the Miami Heat. They are the new standard in the East and the Knicks know they have to build to beat them.

This is why I also look forward to seeing if Glen Grunwald and his crafty group can come up with another Tyson Chandler-type plan, using some of the other assets on this team. Consider the value in Landry Fields ($2.6 million qualifyer), Toney Douglas‘ expiring contract ($2 million) and non-guaranteed money in Dan Gadzuric ($1.3 million), Josh Harrellson ($762,195) and Jerome Jordan ($762, 195).

If a team is looking to sell and take nothing back, the Knicks have the pieces, plus $3 million in cash considerations, to put on the table. It’s not much, but as the Heat showed us, stars can get you far in this league, but a solid supporting cast (Shane Battier, Mike Miller) can get you to the top.

 

[that dude173]

Same Knicks fan calling for amare to be traded will be the same ones on his tip once he comes back strong this season . Bank on it., watch. As for this off-season priority Ray allen/Steve Nash/Jason Kidd/Lamar Odom , no specific order. But they need to be on our radar .

 

[the gr8]

I love Amare and if he can come back and prove me wrong I will so happily admit it. But i honestly think that him and Melo could not be a worse fit. I mean maybe they can get us into the playoffs because their individual talent alone will be too much for the mediocre and bad teams to handle in the regular season, but they will never get us any further. Talent alone can not do vs the elite teams it in the playoffs. Neither of them play D, neither of them are great passers, and both of them need to be in control of the ball to be effective. Why try to make it work if it cannot? I feel like we are trying to fit pieces in a puzzle next to each other that just werent meant to be, and why? Because of our "loyalty" to Amare? Im a big fan of Amare but Ive seen alot more "truer" Knicks than Amare get the boot during my life as a Knicks fan (often times the trade did not even make sense without the loyalty factor word to Patrick Ewing) so I do not think it is a smart move to sacrifice the greater good of this team because we are trying to force Amare into a place he just cannot fit.

That is why I like that Houston trade so much. We get an upgrade at PG and somebody we can move forward with, who is ready to come out and take over. We digress a bit at PF talent wise, but we get a player who would fit into our offensive scheme much more effectively, we get a good backup center, and a first round draft pick out of it. If we get the chance to receive all of that for Amare (which this summer i really think we would if we went after it), that would be a trade that works out for both teams and although there will probably be some initial bitterness it would be in the best interest of Amare as well. If we keep Amare and he has another lackluster season (which i think he will because him and melo dont mesh and he has aging knees), we will never have another chance to trade him and we will be stuck with a PF who does not fit in with our team and his expensive contract. I vote to trade Amare while it is still a possibility, and also potentially get some pieces that work for us in the deal.

Also, i am seeing alot of people claiming that Kidd is all washed up but nobody really making an effort to support that notion. I spent my entire childhood despising Jason Kidd and the Nets but even i know that he is talented as @@!! and could be a great pick up for us.

 

[Hank Scorpio]

I think we can somehow land Nash. Remember last year we were talking about finding a center and everyone though getting Chandler was impossible? I even thought it wasn't going to happen as well, but the Knicks found a way to get it done.

I agree with the people that are saying we need to win now. Melo, Amare and Chandler have 3 years left on their deals and it looks like Nash has just as much time left in his body. We need to go after Nash and go after him HARD.

 

[shuges]

Here's the thing though.... If the Knicks truly are in win-now mode, then what's the point in retaining Lin? Might as well let him walk/trade him while he still has some value and sign both Nash AND Kidd to be your PGs.

I also wanted to comment on the suggestion of trading STAT/Lin to NJ in a package for Deron. It would actually be a good look for all parties involved.

STAT again gets to be the unquestioned "man" on a new team with a PG he's familiar with and who will spoon-feed him the ball. Deron won't get Dwight but he still gets a defensive C in Tyson, PLUS a bonafide scorer in Melo. Lin gets to start AND stay in the tri-state. NJ gets 2 players to sell tickets around. And Melo gets the post all to himself. Plus, he finally gets rid of Lin.

I thought you guys were crazy with that trade scenario. But it actually would be a great idea. Won't ever happen though cuz Dolan wants to keep his cash cow.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Lin is better than Kidd. Sign Nash, get a two guard and a big and go from there.

 

[you go boy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Lin is better than Kidd. Sign Nash, get a two guard and a big and go from there.

if we could get nash, ray allen and lamar 

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by you go boy

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Lin is better than Kidd. Sign Nash, get a two guard and a big and go from there.

if we could get nash, ray allen and lamar 

2 of 3 is possible. I'd love Jesus on this team but I don't see him coming here for the min if Nash gets the MLE.

@SHUGES It makes no sense to let Lin walk even if we're in a win now mode. At the very least he is still a cash cow, we would have to flip him for something. The reason he won't get traded is cuz we still don't know his true value or how much he will improve. We'd just continue to look foolish if we trade him right away for a big and he goes on to be a 10 time all-star and top 10 pg.

Still don't get some of yall wanting Kidd. This is not 2003. I'd even prefer the unknown 35 year old foreigner to him.

 

[that dude173]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by you go boy

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Lin is better than Kidd. Sign Nash, get a two guard and a big and go from there.

if we could get nash, ray allen and lamar 

2 of 3 is possible. I'd love Jesus on this team but I don't see him coming here for the min if Nash gets the MLE.

@SHUGES It makes no sense to let Lin walk even if we're in a win now mode. At the very least he is still a cash cow, we would have to flip him for something. The reason he won't get traded is cuz we still don't know his true value or how much he will improve. We'd just continue to look foolish if we trade him right away for a big and he goes on to be a 10 time all-star and top 10 pg.

Still don't get some of yall wanting Kidd. This is not 2003. I'd even prefer the unknown 35 year old foreigner to him.

So you would choose a unknown 35 yr old foreigner vs a PROVEN future HOF... Not to mention recent world champion. OH...

 

[doublejs07]

Jason Kidd is WASHED. Dude needs to retire. I agree with whoever said that Jeremy Lin is better at this point in their careers. Kidd on the Knicks makes no sense.

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by ThaT Dude173

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Originally Posted by you go boy

if we could get nash, ray allen and lamar 

2 of 3 is possible. I'd love Jesus on this team but I don't see him coming here for the min if Nash gets the MLE.

@SHUGES It makes no sense to let Lin walk even if we're in a win now mode. At the very least he is still a cash cow, we would have to flip him for something. The reason he won't get traded is cuz we still don't know his true value or how much he will improve. We'd just continue to look foolish if we trade him right away for a big and he goes on to be a 10 time all-star and top 10 pg.

Still don't get some of yall wanting Kidd. This is not 2003. I'd even prefer the unknown 35 year old foreigner to him.

So you would choose a unknown 35 yr old foreigner vs a PROVEN future HOF... Not to mention recent world champion. OH...

YES! HE'S DONE.

Signing Jason Kidd now is a "same ol knicks" move. Learn from Baron's season. Yall gonna all be optimistic at first, then start making excuses for him when he shoots horribly or is just too old to keep up, and then get a lil hope when he has a few good games, then when the season is done and he has no impact in the playoffs yall gonna have the nerve to say nobody should've expected much from him and that he was a low risk, high reward signing.  FOH with that. I aint taking away from the championship he help win or that he's a HOFer. My main point is son is not playing like a HOFer now. He playing like a dude that has nothing left in the tank.

After reading GR8's post,

yall never gonna get these STAT trades out your mind. Houston is not dealing Scola for Amar'e. Scola is currently more consistent and again why yall think teams want his uninsured salary on the books just cuz you package him with Lin? I would love Dragic too but we'd be better off signing him outright. I get the feeling more and more that we won't sign him.