T
trelvis tha thrilla
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Is this real life?
My Gay Friends: Please stop comparing your plight to civil rights.
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trelvis tha thrilla
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Is this real life?
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this was the very first response to the original post... and i dare say even when this reaches 30+ pages it will be the best. well said, sir.
by the same token, there are black people who are homophobic and hate gay people... what does that even prove? no group has a monopoly on discrimination.
freudian slip? or ironic coincidence? i'm assuming you meant "ethics"....
i can only speak for myself, but these threads actually don't bother me. i realize that most of us are on one extreme of the issue or the other. in other words, we're probably not going to change our minds about it based on something we read here. however, and i've used this analogy before, there might also be those who are "watching from the sidelines" who aren't sure yet what they believe. they've grown up hearing and seeing one side of it, but now they're starting to question that. it's those people i hope these threads reach.
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this was the very first response to the original post... and i dare say even when this reaches 30+ pages it will be the best. well said, sir.
by the same token, there are black people who are homophobic and hate gay people... what does that even prove? no group has a monopoly on discrimination.
freudian slip? or ironic coincidence? i'm assuming you meant "ethics"....
i can only speak for myself, but these threads actually don't bother me. i realize that most of us are on one extreme of the issue or the other. in other words, we're probably not going to change our minds about it based on something we read here. however, and i've used this analogy before, there might also be those who are "watching from the sidelines" who aren't sure yet what they believe. they've grown up hearing and seeing one side of it, but now they're starting to question that. it's those people i hope these threads reach.
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welp
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welp
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qft.
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My opinion - people need to stop pretending that our society has ever been a morally upstanding society, when in fact it has never been and never will be... the bottom line is that we live in a SECULAR society and it must practice secular laws... even religious people in this country don't fear god, our belief in god is so superficial - look at that Atlanta preacher... he was gay himself! it's preposterous to assume that any religious person should have the right to impart their beliefs on anyone else, because they don't even hold themselves to a high religious/moral standard.
Also, you can't just look at homosexuality as an isolated evil thtat is "destroying the amercian family" ... this is a sexual culture and heterosexuality has the potential to destroy the american family just as much, if not more, than homosexuality does.
I'm personally a religious person, but I can't stand up for a movement that contradicts the "explicitly stated" method of social governing... seperation of church and state.
I don't stand for hypocracy... and the government not granting civil liberties to people on the basis of religion in a "secular" soceity is just hyopcritical. Not to mention the hypocracy of christians/religious people in the united states.
Also, you can't just look at homosexuality as an isolated evil thtat is "destroying the amercian family" ... this is a sexual culture and heterosexuality has the potential to destroy the american family just as much, if not more, than homosexuality does.
I'm personally a religious person, but I can't stand up for a movement that contradicts the "explicitly stated" method of social governing... seperation of church and state.
I don't stand for hypocracy... and the government not granting civil liberties to people on the basis of religion in a "secular" soceity is just hyopcritical. Not to mention the hypocracy of christians/religious people in the united states.
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My opinion - people need to stop pretending that our society has ever been a morally upstanding society, when in fact it has never been and never will be... the bottom line is that we live in a SECULAR society and it must practice secular laws... even religious people in this country don't fear god, our belief in god is so superficial - look at that Atlanta preacher... he was gay himself! it's preposterous to assume that any religious person should have the right to impart their beliefs on anyone else, because they don't even hold themselves to a high religious/moral standard.
Also, you can't just look at homosexuality as an isolated evil thtat is "destroying the amercian family" ... this is a sexual culture and heterosexuality has the potential to destroy the american family just as much, if not more, than homosexuality does.
I'm personally a religious person, but I can't stand up for a movement that contradicts the "explicitly stated" method of social governing... seperation of church and state.
I don't stand for hypocracy... and the government not granting civil liberties to people on the basis of religion in a "secular" soceity is just hyopcritical. Not to mention the hypocracy of christians/religious people in the united states.
Also, you can't just look at homosexuality as an isolated evil thtat is "destroying the amercian family" ... this is a sexual culture and heterosexuality has the potential to destroy the american family just as much, if not more, than homosexuality does.
I'm personally a religious person, but I can't stand up for a movement that contradicts the "explicitly stated" method of social governing... seperation of church and state.
I don't stand for hypocracy... and the government not granting civil liberties to people on the basis of religion in a "secular" soceity is just hyopcritical. Not to mention the hypocracy of christians/religious people in the united states.
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Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Wr wrote:MLK taught us a lot. That turning the other cheek and trying to appease your oppressors is gonna get you shot regardless. Minus well have been Malcom X. At least he didn't get killed just to be friends and the official black history month endorsement forever. All I see about MLK nowadays is McDonald commercials in February. We still reciting this mans dream as the most important dialogue, when it's just licensed out to make money. White and black kids drink out the same water fountain and shh still bad.
Underlined, highlighted and bolded for emphasis.
This my struggle is better than yours mentality a lot of minority NTers have is so self-defeating. People completely ignore the purpose of civil rights movements when it doen't benefit them directly. Selfish****
We're talking about America, no one in here wants to know what happens to gay people in third world countries.
If you understand the concept of ancestors and the God's of your native Igbo people like you say in other threads, do you not realize the core principle of the ancestral religions/ worship is that you are your ancestors. Separation is the illusion of the trickster dieties/ forces or satan like we were talking about in your other thread. That's why he always has a staff, to cut you off from your connection and understanding and to only identify with your ego/ current self since you now think you are so different from them.
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Trust me you're not
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Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Wr wrote:MLK taught us a lot. That turning the other cheek and trying to appease your oppressors is gonna get you shot regardless. Minus well have been Malcom X. At least he didn't get killed just to be friends and the official black history month endorsement forever. All I see about MLK nowadays is McDonald commercials in February. We still reciting this mans dream as the most important dialogue, when it's just licensed out to make money. White and black kids drink out the same water fountain and shh still bad.
Underlined, highlighted and bolded for emphasis.
This my struggle is better than yours mentality a lot of minority NTers have is so self-defeating. People completely ignore the purpose of civil rights movements when it doen't benefit them directly. Selfish****
We're talking about America, no one in here wants to know what happens to gay people in third world countries.
If you understand the concept of ancestors and the God's of your native Igbo people like you say in other threads, do you not realize the core principle of the ancestral religions/ worship is that you are your ancestors. Separation is the illusion of the trickster dieties/ forces or satan like we were talking about in your other thread. That's why he always has a staff, to cut you off from your connection and understanding and to only identify with your ego/ current self since you now think you are so different from them.
antonlavey
Banned
- 28,210
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Aite ok buddy, nice try trying to trivialize this. This is about right and wrong, you can use as many metaphors as you can come up with and it still doesn't change the fact. I have nothing to lose by letting gay people live their damn lives and I have no right to take anything away from them. I live through my ancestors....good sh$ homie now back to the topic at hand.Originally Posted by Wr
If you understand the concept of ancestors and the God's of your native Igbo people like you say in other threads, do you not realize the core principle of the ancestral religions/ worship is that you are your ancestors. Separation is the illusion of the trickster dieties/ forces or satan like we were talking about in your other thread. That's why he always has a staff, to cut you off from your connection and understanding.Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Underlined, highlighted and bolded for emphasis.
This my struggle is better than yours mentality a lot of minority NTers have is so self-defeating. People completely ignore the purpose of civil rights movements when it doen't benefit them directly. Selfish****Because your ancestors (NOT YOU) suffered to open the doors for other civil rights movements means gay people need to be hosed down and chased by dogs in 2011.
We're talking about America, no one in here wants to know what happens to gay people in third world countries.
antonlavey
Banned
- 28,210
- 847
Aite ok buddy, nice try trying to trivialize this. This is about right and wrong, you can use as many metaphors as you can come up with and it still doesn't change the fact. I have nothing to lose by letting gay people live their damn lives and I have no right to take anything away from them. I live through my ancestors....good sh$ homie now back to the topic at hand.Originally Posted by Wr
If you understand the concept of ancestors and the God's of your native Igbo people like you say in other threads, do you not realize the core principle of the ancestral religions/ worship is that you are your ancestors. Separation is the illusion of the trickster dieties/ forces or satan like we were talking about in your other thread. That's why he always has a staff, to cut you off from your connection and understanding.Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Underlined, highlighted and bolded for emphasis.
This my struggle is better than yours mentality a lot of minority NTers have is so self-defeating. People completely ignore the purpose of civil rights movements when it doen't benefit them directly. Selfish****Because your ancestors (NOT YOU) suffered to open the doors for other civil rights movements means gay people need to be hosed down and chased by dogs in 2011.
We're talking about America, no one in here wants to know what happens to gay people in third world countries.
Sir San Diego
formerly brolic scholar
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Nah, it doesn't mean that. You're an intelligent guy so let's not play stupid and start simplifying everything to help our arguments. You know better and antics like this do nothing to help each side come closer to understanding each other's point of view which is what this discussion should be about.
My opinion is that it is offensive to African Americans to equate one struggle with the other. They are not the same. To suggest they are undermines the hard work it took to get where we are today. Obviously the GLT community has suffered, but not to the degree in this country that African Americans have. Does that make their struggle for human rights any less significant? No.
Does it mean that African Americans had it worse and are somehow superior? No.
This isn't a "my struggle is better than your struggle mentality". I, for one, am not celebrating or taking pride in the injustices faced by my people. And I don't like to say ancestors, because my grandfather didn't die that long ago and he had to put up with all of the $%!$ we're talking about. That gimmick of placing the civil rights movement of African Americans back hundereds of years ago is tired. The movement isn't even 100 years old, it's 67 years old. Hell, my father was around for it. My perspective comes from men like him and my grandfather who had to live through the struggle.
Once again, I AM ALL FOR GLTB RIGHTS. I support their fight and think that everyone should have the right to be with and marry whoever they want to.
Anton you love to point out the differences in your culture (Ibo, I think) and African American culture. How would you feel if all African Americans started saying that their problems are like those faced by your people in their home country or that we are the same or just generalizing for the sake of simplification?
You have yourself admitted that members of your family don't view themselves as black Americans and take issue with black people trying to identify with them. Do you understand why your family feels that way whether you agree or not? If so, transfer that want for distinction to the struggles of my father and grandfather and don't put me in the ignorant category because I don't want my history glossed over for the benefit of a group stuggling for equality.
Sir San Diego
formerly brolic scholar
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Nah, it doesn't mean that. You're an intelligent guy so let's not play stupid and start simplifying everything to help our arguments. You know better and antics like this do nothing to help each side come closer to understanding each other's point of view which is what this discussion should be about.
My opinion is that it is offensive to African Americans to equate one struggle with the other. They are not the same. To suggest they are undermines the hard work it took to get where we are today. Obviously the GLT community has suffered, but not to the degree in this country that African Americans have. Does that make their struggle for human rights any less significant? No.
Does it mean that African Americans had it worse and are somehow superior? No.
This isn't a "my struggle is better than your struggle mentality". I, for one, am not celebrating or taking pride in the injustices faced by my people. And I don't like to say ancestors, because my grandfather didn't die that long ago and he had to put up with all of the $%!$ we're talking about. That gimmick of placing the civil rights movement of African Americans back hundereds of years ago is tired. The movement isn't even 100 years old, it's 67 years old. Hell, my father was around for it. My perspective comes from men like him and my grandfather who had to live through the struggle.
Once again, I AM ALL FOR GLTB RIGHTS. I support their fight and think that everyone should have the right to be with and marry whoever they want to.
Anton you love to point out the differences in your culture (Ibo, I think) and African American culture. How would you feel if all African Americans started saying that their problems are like those faced by your people in their home country or that we are the same or just generalizing for the sake of simplification?
You have yourself admitted that members of your family don't view themselves as black Americans and take issue with black people trying to identify with them. Do you understand why your family feels that way whether you agree or not? If so, transfer that want for distinction to the struggles of my father and grandfather and don't put me in the ignorant category because I don't want my history glossed over for the benefit of a group stuggling for equality.
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James Earl Zones wrote:Wr wrote:TennHouse2 wrote:so are u saying gay people arent being discriminated against too, they arent getting beat to death? they arent getting sodomized and hung on fences? they arent getting turned away from jobs because there gay? its so lame to try and turn this into a we had it worse pissing contest, instead of helping out the rights of everyone
It was individuals discriminating against gays. It was official government policy to kill and hunt down blacks. We weren't even considered a full human being. We were classified as a sub human species. When have gay people ever fallen under such nomenclature?http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._Anti-Homosexuality_Bill
Or do you just want specifically in the US?
u can still hide being gay and survive and be sucessful
police wont search and gay person to see if they got warrents or check there body for gang tattoes or find some reason to put u in jail im sorry if i got people mad but we as blacks ( with a black president ) are still tring to survive and make things equal
It was individuals discriminating against gays. It was official government policy to kill and hunt down blacks. We weren't even considered a full human being. We were classified as a sub human species. When have gay people ever fallen under such nomenclature?http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._Anti-Homosexuality_Bill
Or do you just want specifically in the US?
u can still hide being gay and survive and be sucessful
police wont search and gay person to see if they got warrents or check there body for gang tattoes or find some reason to put u in jail im sorry if i got people mad but we as blacks ( with a black president ) are still tring to survive and make things equal
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James Earl Zones wrote:Wr wrote:TennHouse2 wrote:so are u saying gay people arent being discriminated against too, they arent getting beat to death? they arent getting sodomized and hung on fences? they arent getting turned away from jobs because there gay? its so lame to try and turn this into a we had it worse pissing contest, instead of helping out the rights of everyone
It was individuals discriminating against gays. It was official government policy to kill and hunt down blacks. We weren't even considered a full human being. We were classified as a sub human species. When have gay people ever fallen under such nomenclature?http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._Anti-Homosexuality_Bill
Or do you just want specifically in the US?
u can still hide being gay and survive and be sucessful
police wont search and gay person to see if they got warrents or check there body for gang tattoes or find some reason to put u in jail im sorry if i got people mad but we as blacks ( with a black president ) are still tring to survive and make things equal
It was individuals discriminating against gays. It was official government policy to kill and hunt down blacks. We weren't even considered a full human being. We were classified as a sub human species. When have gay people ever fallen under such nomenclature?http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._Anti-Homosexuality_Bill
Or do you just want specifically in the US?
u can still hide being gay and survive and be sucessful
police wont search and gay person to see if they got warrents or check there body for gang tattoes or find some reason to put u in jail im sorry if i got people mad but we as blacks ( with a black president ) are still tring to survive and make things equal
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There you go playing stupid again. You pulling the Bill o'rielly x Lupe the way he switched up and started playing for Obama to make Lupe look bad. You just said in the other thread that you believe more in the Gods of the Igbo people over the judeochristian God. I bring that back up and you call it "good sh$" or "nice trying to trivialize this". Get over yourself dude. You can't win in every single thread. Especially since people are not trying to compete with you. Just going over the info.Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Aite ok buddy, nice try trying to trivialize this. This is about right and wrong, you can use as many metaphors as you can come up with and it still doesn't change the fact. I have nothing to lose by letting gay people live their damn lives and I have no right to take anything away from them. I live through my ancestors....good sh$ homie now back to the topic at hand.Originally Posted by Wr
If you understand the concept of ancestors and the God's of your native Igbo people like you say in other threads, do you not realize the core principle of the ancestral religions/ worship is that you are your ancestors. Separation is the illusion of the trickster dieties/ forces or satan like we were talking about in your other thread. That's why he always has a staff, to cut you off from your connection and understanding.Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Underlined, highlighted and bolded for emphasis.
This my struggle is better than yours mentality a lot of minority NTers have is so self-defeating. People completely ignore the purpose of civil rights movements when it doen't benefit them directly. Selfish****Because your ancestors (NOT YOU) suffered to open the doors for other civil rights movements means gay people need to be hosed down and chased by dogs in 2011.
We're talking about America, no one in here wants to know what happens to gay people in third world countries.
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There you go playing stupid again. You pulling the Bill o'rielly x Lupe the way he switched up and started playing for Obama to make Lupe look bad. You just said in the other thread that you believe more in the Gods of the Igbo people over the judeochristian God. I bring that back up and you call it "good sh$" or "nice trying to trivialize this". Get over yourself dude. You can't win in every single thread. Especially since people are not trying to compete with you. Just going over the info.Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Aite ok buddy, nice try trying to trivialize this. This is about right and wrong, you can use as many metaphors as you can come up with and it still doesn't change the fact. I have nothing to lose by letting gay people live their damn lives and I have no right to take anything away from them. I live through my ancestors....good sh$ homie now back to the topic at hand.Originally Posted by Wr
If you understand the concept of ancestors and the God's of your native Igbo people like you say in other threads, do you not realize the core principle of the ancestral religions/ worship is that you are your ancestors. Separation is the illusion of the trickster dieties/ forces or satan like we were talking about in your other thread. That's why he always has a staff, to cut you off from your connection and understanding.Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Underlined, highlighted and bolded for emphasis.
This my struggle is better than yours mentality a lot of minority NTers have is so self-defeating. People completely ignore the purpose of civil rights movements when it doen't benefit them directly. Selfish****Because your ancestors (NOT YOU) suffered to open the doors for other civil rights movements means gay people need to be hosed down and chased by dogs in 2011.
We're talking about America, no one in here wants to know what happens to gay people in third world countries.
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If you understand the concept of ancestors and the God's of your native Igbo people like you say in other threads, do you not realize the core principle of the ancestral religions/ worship is that you are your ancestors. Separation is the illusion of the trickster dieties/ forces or satan like we were talking about in your other thread. That's why he always has a staff, to cut you off from your connection and understanding and to only identify with your ego/ current self since you now think you are so different from them.Originally Posted by Wr
Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Wr wrote:MLK taught us a lot. That turning the other cheek and trying to appease your oppressors is gonna get you shot regardless. Minus well have been Malcom X. At least he didn't get killed just to be friends and the official black history month endorsement forever. All I see about MLK nowadays is McDonald commercials in February. We still reciting this mans dream as the most important dialogue, when it's just licensed out to make money. White and black kids drink out the same water fountain and shh still bad.
Underlined, highlighted and bolded for emphasis.
This my struggle is better than yours mentality a lot of minority NTers have is so self-defeating. People completely ignore the purpose of civil rights movements when it doen't benefit them directly. Selfish****Because your ancestors (NOT YOU) suffered to open the doors for other civil rights movements means gay people need to be hosed down and chased by dogs in 2011.
We're talking about America, no one in here wants to know what happens to gay people in third world countries.
just straying from the path of the discussion and following your train of thought:
you don't think you have any gay ancestors?
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If you understand the concept of ancestors and the God's of your native Igbo people like you say in other threads, do you not realize the core principle of the ancestral religions/ worship is that you are your ancestors. Separation is the illusion of the trickster dieties/ forces or satan like we were talking about in your other thread. That's why he always has a staff, to cut you off from your connection and understanding and to only identify with your ego/ current self since you now think you are so different from them.Originally Posted by Wr
Originally Posted by AntonLaVey
Wr wrote:MLK taught us a lot. That turning the other cheek and trying to appease your oppressors is gonna get you shot regardless. Minus well have been Malcom X. At least he didn't get killed just to be friends and the official black history month endorsement forever. All I see about MLK nowadays is McDonald commercials in February. We still reciting this mans dream as the most important dialogue, when it's just licensed out to make money. White and black kids drink out the same water fountain and shh still bad.
Underlined, highlighted and bolded for emphasis.
This my struggle is better than yours mentality a lot of minority NTers have is so self-defeating. People completely ignore the purpose of civil rights movements when it doen't benefit them directly. Selfish****Because your ancestors (NOT YOU) suffered to open the doors for other civil rights movements means gay people need to be hosed down and chased by dogs in 2011.
We're talking about America, no one in here wants to know what happens to gay people in third world countries.
just straying from the path of the discussion and following your train of thought:
you don't think you have any gay ancestors?
Gill Baka Esq. LLC.
formerly grimlock
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what are you really trying to say then?
You said it was in your opinion that this is offensive to ALL African Americans. That to me says "Since this usage of the civil rights movements of African-Americans as a platform for Gays is not right in my opinion, I will speak on all of their behalf and say my feelings and sentiments are shared by them as well."
No it isn't.
