Napolean Hill's "Outwitting the Devil" [The book that they did not want the world to read]

[hombrelobo]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

You dudes could kill Silly Putty for commenting on something he hasn't read (if he did, whatever), but a lot of what he said is reasonable.

Nah. He's being too literal. He's "thinking" but he didn't have any information to process. Just making the same ol' Chappelle joke knocking the book like it's some Kevin Tredau *#*%.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by man listen

bro what is stopping you from just giving this material an honest try and testing it out? 

I don't know if you read ANYTHING I said...but I said that there is some good to this and some bad...
The bad comes in with Hill's attempt at making metaphysical and spiritual arguments as the basis for his whole out look

And YES there is a religious overtone to it...not that I'm opposed to it...it just contradicts EVERYTHING hes saying.

And since you all dont believe me here is a screencap of my transcript from when I took the course:

I spent a whole semester learning about these type of dudes so I think after dedicating that much time to it I'd know a little something...plus I'm not swayed by these appeals to emotion like that so give me some credit here. 

I'm not saying i'm an expert but anyone should be able to see the errors in his arguments with MINIMAL thought. Its really nothing special. 

Fall 2009:

you put a ton of energy into debating and theorizing and very little into actually experiencing.

You don't know that honestly.
You're speaking on your opinon. 

Its like I can't have a negative opinion of this guy Napoleon Hill. As if we're all supposed to lock-step into line. Yeah right...I disagreed and enumerated my points. I didn't address YOU or anyone else. I stayed on topic. You could at least do the same. 

Before I became what I am today I kinda experimented with a lot of stuff trying to find "the way" until I just accepted that its all garbage beyond the stuff we already know and can prove. How do you think I know so much about religion and spiritual connections and their actual neurological connections? I mean I actually enjoyed the stuff I learned and it became a hobby. I actually invest time into seeking this info. 

Be a good person to others and try to always be happy. Thats it. 

why are you so obsessed with arguing and deconstructing everything?

Because I actually care if the conclusions supported are worth supporting or true. Its not my fault that I don't accept everything i'm told without trying to justify it. Some of us find that important. I'm sorry you don't. 

these are rhetorical questions meant for you to get better acquainted with yourself and your motivations. sometimes you come across almost like a computer or robot that simply is running anti-consciousness software and designed only to have a limited perspective, unable to expand the capabilities of your mind.

Again, you didn't read anything I wrote.
I said that there is MAJOR benefit in learning to recognize your own narcissicism and how we relate to each other. Learning what it is to ask questions and seek advice while developing a personal ethos that allows us to make objective judgements. I know about cognition and the pursuit of understanding. Miss me with that.

But you're defending this "self help guru" who is saying a "creator granted you the right to think and liberate your mind"...uh...false. If this creator existed, it created the conditions that enslaved your mind in the first part. It makes no sense for this creator to now want to liberate it. But no...I think too much. 

Consciousness is not JUST thinking about the possibilities. Its about examining them and defining them.There is a reason why you don't believe in Santa Claus or the Loch Ness monster. There is a reason why you think some things are unlikely to happen. 

Thinking of things and justifying them are what makes us progress. Coming up with random answers and not substantiating them is what holds us back. Don't sit in your den and write up this nonsense which is completely anecdotal in nature and full of suppositions and expect not to get called out on it.

These self-help guys do one thing well...and thats sell you a dream. 

There is a difference between these guys and those who work in ACTUAL cognition and neurological labs. Those are the ones who understand what triggers it takes to make us who we are and our decision making. NOT these street-corner philosophers who are blind enough to believe anything that come out of their mouth.

I'm open to the possibilities...but i'm not open to those which aren't possible. Do you understand? 

Merely HAVING an opinion doesn't make it valid. Nor does just HAVING an opinion make it more true. There is a problem in this country that makes it seem like just because you have a right to say anything it makes it something that automatically true. This is NOT the case. 

who programmed you bro?

The same people who programmed you. At least I'm aware of the programming and stepped outside of the computer. 
if I remember, aren't you at theist of some sort? I can see how my stance might annoy you too if thats the case.

I'm being completely serious. ask yourself where do your ideas and thoughts really come from and you might realize that you are nowhere close to the independent thinker you falsely pride yourself on being.

LOL.
This is someone who doesn't get it.

I NEVER said I was an independent and original thinker.

Have you wondered why you're not addressing anyone else you agreed with?

I'm the only person you chose to address. Why? Is it because I disagreed with "Napoleon Hill" ? Does that bother you? Why does it bother you? Are my opinions not equally valid?

Heres the thing...I am fully aware of the influence of others on me... Are you aware of your own bias? Do you ever stop to think WHY you believe all the stuff you do? Is the conclusion you reach fully justified? Can it be supported with evidence to a reliable degree?

Are you comfortable NOT knowing something? 

The one thing I really am certain about in life is when I don't know something. 

No man is an island...but it is obvious that you aren't aware of your own solipsism. 

I would bet everything that your first instinct/programmed response would be to create some type of rebuttal or cite some more facts and figures to continue to build your argument and further close the walls of your mind into a corner just to limit the range it has. it's almost like you are building a cubicle around your own mind.

Nah... I'm not an egomaniac nor am I someone who wants to force my reality on others...but if I happen to challenge your view of this character you hold in high regard why do you choose to defend it so much? 
Should you not be willing to criticize something even you find of high regard? How will you ever know when something is inaccurate if you refuse to admit your own bias? 

If you witnessed your mother kill someone would you still defend her or would you emotionally draw upon the attachments you have for her to defend her? 

I try very hard to be honest in removing myself from my bias towards things. Its like the masculinity thread. I know what most of you all are talking about in regards to what is considered "soft" or not...but in challenging that defintion, you uncover that it "masculinity" doesn't mean anything. Its an empty term. Personally, I get awkward seeing flamboyant men...its still kinda weird to me. I'm being honest... But at the SAME TIME... I recognize my bias and stop myself from issuing criticism on another person because I do not fully understand their state of mind. I have to assert that in as much as I think I'm normal, so do they. Thus my perspective gets more diverse and i'm able to more objectivity assess my perception of the world.

Some people say I lack emotion or that I'm not willing to show a softer side to these sorts of "spiritual" arguments. Why should I? Do you show a softer side to those that believe global warming is false? or don't believe in evolution? or think the world is flat? 

People love to criticize things until something they attach themselves to is attacked. Its the same thing with Penn State. Why the hell were those kids defending people who covered up sexual abuse? Its because emotionally they can't separate their feelings from objective character/status assessments. 

Those who never find flaws in anything are the blind ones. They don't question anything. They don't offer their opinion. They don't challenge things. 

If there is math book with ONE wrong principle or axiom then it can't be celebrated. It must be challenged and made to be as consistent as possible. 

The bible in its current form has incorporated many lessons and stories from previous cultures and societies that offer truths of the benefit of social interaction and altruism...but it also includes horrendous and unspeakable acts of cruelty and abuse that would not be tolerated today. These are NOT absolute texts. Their lessons are NOT unique nor are they particularly special. 

"I will only believe what falls within these given parameters, anything else I will vehemently dismiss and not tolerate...C:\work\assign [x[:]=y[:]....assign /STATUS". but know that my intention is not to argue with you or belittle anything you may believe but only to try and get you to self reflect and open your mind, at least somewhat. 

I don't have certain parameters...thats the thing.
I'm open to any idea or possibility. 

In my dreams i'm 6' 3" and a black Rothschild  

...but i'm not until I can substantiate those claims. 

I can want there to be a higher realm of chakra vibration by seance through the spirits of kemet reachable by 50mg of DMT inserted into my pineal gland at the height of the celestial synchrony of the sign of Taurus in the autumn sky...

Or I can realize that nothing I'm saying is REMOTELY connected and understand that just because I THINK of something doesn't make it more real. 

What are inventions?

Are they just random ideas?

No. Not really. Every invention is based on something else. No invention just spontaneously arrises. They are all the result of existing technology or ideas manipulated and aggregated into new forms. 

Name one TRULY original invention and i'll apologize. 

I think its wrong to sell false hope. Its better to tell people about studies done showing why they act they way they do and evidence to support those claims matters. I think its better for people to understand how their perception works as far as we scientifically understand it today. THINKING stuff doesn't make it happen. THINKING about stuff AND giving them the TOOLS to make it happen is another thing. 

Some people don't even understand how melatonin works...yet they will buy a random jet-lag "remedy" at the airport. 

....welp! surprise! you're out $15 because you don't even know how your own body works. 

What you don't know can hurt you...and dudes selling this stuff to sold out arenas are pure capitalists. I can't hate them...I just know that you'll never see an ACTUAL scientist or researcher of these topics on such a stage. 

Its a shame its so hard to get people to understand how things work in ways that we can better explain...but I guess its a result of Occams Razor that its easy to tell people about "spiritual energy" and "chakras" and other non-sense. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by man listen

Originally Posted by Cz7

Wow you dudes are sheep and will literally believe anything that anyone comes along and pushes down your throat.
Silly putty is on point with his critique. How you can knock him for thinking critically about something? 

Everybody saying "added my amazon cart" etc., 

Yall are some fools. You don't need to pay for some rudimentary self help $$@@#!#%. 

Go to a library and read the classics

How can you knock anyone for checking out the book when you haven't read it and don't know what it's about? I haven't read this particular book myself but I'll just put it out there loud and clear like this....when I learn that if I practice meditation and visualization along with learning to control my own emotions and psyche I can get to a point where I can literally instantly manifest anything I desire out of thin air.....and then I take action to see if it's true instead of searching for "proof" and "evidence" stating that this is "too good to be true" in the form of a "testimony" from a third party....and then I find myself getting closer and closer to instantly manifesting my desires out of thin air as I continue to take action to make it a reality......and then someone like you comes along and tries to tell me you know what you're talking about and I don't simply because of something you've been told to believe as opposed to the real life miracles I have experienced firsthand....I mean do you realize how ridiculous someone like you appears to someone like me? which one of us is the sheep again?

This is just confirmation bias. 

I have a dream of being a physician one day. 

I think about it literally every goddamn day. 

Thinking about it calms me down...and it amps me up...it has an effect on my mood. It makes me sad...it makes me happy...it makes me hopeful...but I'm still not a physician. 

Every thing I do is about me getting to that stage of putting on a white coat. 

My motivation is consciously set on that goal. Actively and passively. Actively in filling out apps for related events or passively in deciding to go to sleep early to make progress the next day. 

If I happen to become a physician. Will it be because I worked at it each day to arrive at that goal? Will it be my determination to encounter countless rejections and "No's" and being looked over? Will it be me staring in the mirror each day trying to figure out the next move? 

Or will it be because of some sort of "spiritual" undefined guidance towards my goal?  This sort of metaphysical realm of higher connection to the power crystals? 

I'm sorry but I take credit for my work. You're more than welcome to sign off the rights of your investments to others. 

Its like being in the ER and a woman comes in with a head-ache and a rosary. You give her some advil while shes clutching her 0.99 cent beads and reciting "prayers" in "tongues." When she gets checked up later she thanks god for curing her head-ache. Was god really the one who helped or was it her advil?  YOU KNOW what the answer is. Don't BS yourself with this mumbo-jumbo.

WANTING something to BE...does NOT make it SO. 

 

[Renaldo Balkman]

looking for the mp3 to listen to on the way to work in the morning 

 

[Jordan8]

A lot of you left brainers need more balance

I dont even know how you actively function in society

Its ok to color outside of the lines sometimes man


As far as Hill goes I suggest you actually research the man and how his lectures and books have influenced many successful people and Companies. He's not tony robbins its actually applicable stuff he teaches

 

[man listen]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by man listen

Originally Posted by Cz7

Wow you dudes are sheep and will literally believe anything that anyone comes along and pushes down your throat.
Silly putty is on point with his critique. How you can knock him for thinking critically about something? 

Everybody saying "added my amazon cart" etc., 

Yall are some fools. You don't need to pay for some rudimentary self help $$@@#!#%. 

Go to a library and read the classics

How can you knock anyone for checking out the book when you haven't read it and don't know what it's about? I haven't read this particular book myself but I'll just put it out there loud and clear like this....when I learn that if I practice meditation and visualization along with learning to control my own emotions and psyche I can get to a point where I can literally instantly manifest anything I desire out of thin air.....and then I take action to see if it's true instead of searching for "proof" and "evidence" stating that this is "too good to be true" in the form of a "testimony" from a third party....and then I find myself getting closer and closer to instantly manifesting my desires out of thin air as I continue to take action to make it a reality......and then someone like you comes along and tries to tell me you know what you're talking about and I don't simply because of something you've been told to believe as opposed to the real life miracles I have experienced firsthand....I mean do you realize how ridiculous someone like you appears to someone like me? which one of us is the sheep again?

This is just confirmation bias. 

you frequently dismiss what people say in spiritual terms in favor of using scientific terms. I remember you once said that someone committing a crime and getting punished for it is not the same thing as bad karma. you gotta understand that I believe and accept everything you talk about, the only difference is I have expanded my consciousness to where I believe everything that you can't comprehend beyond an intellectual level. for the most part we agree on things, I'm not going to try and convince you to be more spiritual or open up to a higher level of consciousness because I really don't care. it's not my responsibility to help you improve the quality of your life or show you that you actually could grow to 6'3 if you wanted. that's not scientific anyway right? you're cool with me bro, keep living your life in a way that you feel you are getting everything you truly desire knowing that literally anything is possible and I will do the same. peace  

 

[hombrelobo]

Originally Posted by sillyputty

You're missing the point. It's about being able to guide your thoughts and feelings regardless of circumstance.

I just know that you'll never see an ACTUAL scientist or researcher of these topics on such a stage. 

Because psychologists and therapists best gift to a client ISN'T to teach a person how they can get control over their thoughts and feelings, right? Oh, okay. Never mind those psychologists. They don't do research!

I'm done with this kid. One last note, though.

These books can inform about moving your thoughts and feelings to better places (which doesn't mean you have to think absolutely positive all of the time!), you can't help but perceive a better external reality - your perception of the external world. It's not going to give you the power to control the outside world. Just like tuning into a radio station, though, if we dial a frequency with our thoughts and feelings we can receive a clear signal that matches that frequency. That's why someone who's habitually conscious and proficient at seeing what they want to see and feeling how they want to feel, regardless of temporary circumstances, will typically create experiences what they want.

And as far as the notion that no action is involved. The on the contrary, Hill's response is that action is the most important ingredient.

Sidenote- Working hard or even achieving a lot doesn't promise a happy life or even success in certain areas, like money.

 

[mustbefire]

Originally Posted by throwedyonasb

^^ he wrote a book a year prior, that im sure youve heard about, called "Think Big, Grow Rich." this is the follow up on it, he tells what factors cause someone to fail.

think big grow rich = positive energy perspective
outwitting the devil = what causes people to fail

Just copped both.  Good looks.

 

[godie]

I'll be the first to admit I didn't read the book.
But the way you guys are describing it is that it's another self help book...be rich with very little work type of %++@*%*% that just doesn't work in the real world.
And if this is in fact not the case, then you people supporting this have done a horrible job of describing this book.

 

[man listen]

Originally Posted by hombrelobo

Originally Posted by sillyputty

You're missing the point. It's about being able to guide your thoughts and feelings regardless of circumstance.

I just know that you'll never see an ACTUAL scientist or researcher of these topics on such a stage. 

Because psychologists and therapists best gift to a client ISN'T to teach a person how they can get control over their thoughts and feelings, right? Oh, okay. Never mind those psychologists. They don't do research!

I'm done with this kid. One last note, though.

These books can inform about moving your thoughts and feelings to better places (which doesn't mean you have to think absolutely positive all of the time!), you can't help but perceive a better external reality - your perception of the external world. It's not going to give you the power to control the outside world. Just like tuning into a radio station, though, if we dial a frequency with our thoughts and feelings we can receive a clear signal that matches that frequency. That's why someone who's habitually conscious and proficient at seeing what they want to see and feeling how they want to feel, regardless of temporary circumstances, will typically create experiences what they want.

And as far as the notion that no action is involved. The on the contrary, Hill's response is that action is the most important ingredient.

Sidenote- Working hard or even achieving a lot doesn't promise a happy life or even success in certain areas, like money.






respectfully disagree with you there bro. I thought that too and then I kept digging and realized just how deep it gets. the universe and everything in it is infinite. keep digging bro, as above so below.

 

[hombrelobo]

^I guess we'll just have to disagree on that one. There will always be outside outliers that you can't control.

 

[hombrelobo]

Originally Posted by goDie

I'll bevtge first to admit I didn't read the book.
But the way you guys are describing it is that it's another self help book...be rich with very kittle work type of %+%!*%#% that just doesn't work in the real world.
And if this is in fact not the case, then you people supporting this have done a horrible job of describing this book.

Stick to trolling Club.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by cartune

A lot of you left brainers need more balance

I dont even know how you actively function in society

Its ok to color outside of the lines sometimes man


As far as Hill goes I suggest you actually research the man and how his lectures and books have influenced many successful people and Companies. He's not tony robbins its actually applicable stuff he teaches

Again, you didn't read my joke about these being the guys that get hired to come in and motivate cubicle drones at fortune 500 companies. 

Plus its hard to tell how "influential" these people have been since there is no metric to measure this. They come in for one day, speak to a crowd of 2,000 people and dip and all of a sudden the company is like it just opened for business. 

I always think its funny how they offer these open ended questions and then the crowd is magically acting like he can read their minds. Just like pastors. "I know someone in here is going through some rough times...I know someone in here has told a lie recently...You need to clear your heart and come up to accept what you've done and blah blah blah" 

I function just fine man...I just don't get swayed by BS...

I've done plenty of research on the man just like all the others:

The same with Stephen Covey, Dr. Phil, Tony Robbins, Deepak Chopra, Eckart Tolle, Richard Carlson, David Allen, Suze Orman, Jack Canfield, and same with those chicken soup for the soul books. 

These are the 2011 Snake Oil Merchants. 

They LOVE selling you vague ideas and having you interpret it as your own meaning to "inspire" you 

Self help seminars are to me like...secular churches 

...you go in...hear awesome music, see some cool tricks, think about stuff in abstract ways, hear some stuff you already knew, got the same answers you already had, hear a touching message that plays a guitar solo on all your emotional strings, MAKE A DONATION, then head to the gift shop and maybe ihop after...except with these guys their motivational "GO FOR YOUR GOALS!" always equates to...now back to your desk!

 

Whatever or wherever people get their motivation to get off the couch I can't hate them...but you HAVE to start pulling cards when dudes start talking about stuff that is just contradictory and completely non-sensical. 







Edit: How did I miss the rest of the thread title?! 

[The book that they did not want the world to read] 

 

[man listen]

Originally Posted by hombrelobo

There will always be outside outliers that you can't control.

Why? you ever read about some of the tests done to a guy like Swami Rama?

 

[mustbefire]

Sillyputty your obviously more adept in this field than the rest of us, but damn let a NT brethren live. Stop trying to stunt on everyone lol, I haven't had the luxury of such a thought process since college. I know I've become more of a pleeb/sheep in my 9 to 5 lifestyle, so I need books like these reinstate said principles regardless of who they're coming from....I am by no means a devout believer of religion but I can't deny the truth and wisdom of all religious texts.

In all seriousness though, I understand your just trying to shed some light but you have to remember your background put you on a completely different playing field than the rest of us.

 

[jdubb1914]

I read Think & Grow Rich so I wil have to give this a shot

 

[|A-Man|]

Originally Posted by ATGD7154xBBxMZ

Can there be more explanation please? Seems nothing more than a self-help book with hype around it like The Secret and other "literature" of that ilk. All that wife was scared to release the book because of it's content and title, not wanting to publish even 40 years later seems like unnecessary hype and bull to get you to buy this.

Can somebody post a good two-three pages of this? or pm me a chapter at least.

Originally Posted by goDie

I'll be the first to admit I didn't read the book.
But the way you guys are describing it is that it's another self help book...be rich with very little work type of %++@*%*% that just doesn't work in the real world.
And if this is in fact not the case, then you people supporting this have done a horrible job of describing this book.

 

[keepzdasneakz]

Originally Posted by man listen

Originally Posted by Cz7

Wow you dudes are sheep and will literally believe anything that anyone comes along and pushes down your throat.
Silly putty is on point with his critique. How you can knock him for thinking critically about something? 

Everybody saying "added my amazon cart" etc., 

Yall are some fools. You don't need to pay for some rudimentary self help $$@@#!#%. 

Go to a library and read the classics

How can you knock anyone for checking out the book when you haven't read it and don't know what it's about? I haven't read this particular book myself but I'll just put it out there loud and clear like this....when I learn that if I practice meditation and visualization along with learning to control my own emotions and psyche I can get to a point where I can literally instantly manifest anything I desire out of thin air.....and then I take action to see if it's true instead of searching for "proof" and "evidence" stating that this is "too good to be true" in the form of a "testimony" from a third party....and then I find myself getting closer and closer to instantly manifesting my desires out of thin air as I continue to take action to make it a reality......and then someone like you comes along and tries to tell me you know what you're talking about and I don't simply because of something you've been told to believe as opposed to the real life miracles I have experienced firsthand....I mean do you realize how ridiculous someone like you appears to someone like me? which one of us is the sheep again?

Well cot damn....I want some of whatever you're using.

Yeah it's good to keep an open mind, but at the same time there are certain flags and filters that come with the territory of intellectual properties. I suggest approaching things more epistemological.

 

[peteweezy]

I don't know about this new book but since I liked Think and Grow Rich I'll give it a try.  It is a self help book but it is like one of the originals that have inspired most of the books you see nowadays.  Also it's not necessarily a get rich quick book imo it helps you to better succeed in life by using real life examples of titans of that day.  If you don't need the help good for you but alot could use it so I don't see the reason to knock it just because you don't need/agree with it.  I will say most is common sense but lets be honest everybody doesn't have common sense.  How to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie is also a good self help book.

 

[kc24688]

Originally Posted by man listen

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by cartune

Putty its not about the devil

Its about the demons all of us deal with on a daily

There is a "conversation" he has with the devil but I dont think it was meant to be taken seriously but the message that was given was universal

He even speaks against how the church raises people to not think for themselves

Its not a religious book

This my point...



I know its not a religious book per se...but he has these overtones that self-help "gurus" have been able to capitalize off of by scamming those who don't actually care to investigate their claims. They're just riding the coat-tails of the culture they're trying to influence. 




Also its disingenuous to speak on his behalf and say its not a religious book...well why make those overtones? Hell, in the video posted thats half of what he talks about. 




Again...is having a positive attitude a good thing? Yes. 

Is learning to maximize your talents and understand your own bias beneficial? Yes.

Is relating this to some sort of mystical spiritual power useful? No.




In undergrad I took this easy PE course about positive thinking or something...basically we were using Stephen Covey's "7 Habits etc" book the whole time and I saw through it all. Its a famous book because he helped really sky rocket that self-help guru lane like Tony Robbins etc. Talking about "energy and etc" 

Trust me on this... 

 I would be sitting there in class poking holes in every argument and comparing how far off the rocker most of these "guru's" were with the way they make their claims. There is a reason these people are so popular...they remove the element of hard work that most of their supporters dont have. Just by "thinking" things, it makes them possible...and thats also why its easy for them to capitalize on religious groups. 




There is a difference between having good thoughts and being a good person...and having to recognize a "creator" and make spiritual concessions of mentally blah blah blah. Its all pseudo-scientific garb beyond their superficial points. Trust me, I spend a whole semester just sitting there comparing all the major self-help dudes from ones that offered actual benefit.




You're more likely to get more self-help from a TED talk than someone likely to be on Oprah's couch. 




he tries to sneak it by and get heavy into the spiritual woo-woo crap about "THINKING" about being rich will make you rich...without offering any suggestions about what actual rich people did. 




My whole thing is, without getting too long winded is that he makes these outrageous claims that are not substantiated in any form.




Its kinda my beef with ancient texts...like just because there is some good stuff in the book doesn't mean the WHOLE book is good...there is a standard by which some arguments are good and some are bad.




Its like how people revere everything einstein said about "god" ...einstein was right on somethings, wrong on others...but people love to cherish every word that comes out of these names that have been deified as if they're some sort of enlightened truth...sometimes they're not. 


Its more honest to judge each claim individually of the plausibility and veracity of the statement than to exalt each utterance as some sort of real revelation. People always want to take it to the extremes. 




It also funny that he mentions andrew carnegie...yet there are theories that suggest he never even MET the dude. According to lore he met dude in 1908 which led Hill to interview a bunch of other successful people. BUT, Hill didn't publish anything until 1919 and Think and grow rich came out in 1937...and carnegie was dead by then. None of carnegies scholarly and researched biographies mention Hill at all...but they do mention Carnegie's own books...which have no mention of Hill either. 




Dude seems to be an opportunist on selling junk wrapped in a candy layer. 




It takes a lot more to THINK AND GROW RICH than just sitting there staring at clouds. 




These are the dudes that Fortune 500 companies hire to come in and motivate cubicle drones. 

 

 







I can't post it but just remember Dave Chappelle's skit on "The Secret" 

bro what is stopping you from just giving this material an honest try and testing it out? you put a ton of energy into debating and theorizing and very little into actually experiencing. why are you so obsessed with arguing and deconstructing everything? these are rhetorical questions meant for you to get better acquainted with yourself and your motivations. sometimes you come across almost like a computer or robot that simply is running anti-consciousness software and designed only to have a limited perspective, unable to expand the capabilities of your mind. who programmed you bro? I'm being completely serious. ask yourself where do your ideas and thoughts really come from and you might realize that you are nowhere close to the independent thinker you falsely pride yourself on being. I would bet everything that your first instinct/programmed response would be to create some type of rebuttal or cite some more facts and figures to continue to build your argument and further close the walls of your mind into a corner just to limit the range it has. it's almost like you are building a cubicle around your own mind. "I will only believe what falls within these given parameters, anything else I will vehemently dismiss and not tolerate...C:\work\assign [x[:]=y[:]....assign /STATUS". but know that my intention is not to argue with you or belittle anything you may believe but only to try and get you to self reflect and open your mind, at least somewhat. 

I wanted to reply to this because I have found this to be one of my biggest flaws and I'm sure others could relate.  I know that I have a higher understanding of logic than almost everyone around me.  The problem with that is that sometimes I let logic limit my mind because some things just can't be explained with logic or you just don't have all the facts to apply logic in some situations.  I just realized the other day how serious of a thought this was.

 

[shoefreakbaby]

Did buddy just post his Degree audit

 

[man listen]

Originally Posted by keepzdasneakz

Originally Posted by man listen

Originally Posted by Cz7

Wow you dudes are sheep and will literally believe anything that anyone comes along and pushes down your throat.
Silly putty is on point with his critique. How you can knock him for thinking critically about something? 

Everybody saying "added my amazon cart" etc., 

Yall are some fools. You don't need to pay for some rudimentary self help $$@@#!#%. 

Go to a library and read the classics

How can you knock anyone for checking out the book when you haven't read it and don't know what it's about? I haven't read this particular book myself but I'll just put it out there loud and clear like this....when I learn that if I practice meditation and visualization along with learning to control my own emotions and psyche I can get to a point where I can literally instantly manifest anything I desire out of thin air.....and then I take action to see if it's true instead of searching for "proof" and "evidence" stating that this is "too good to be true" in the form of a "testimony" from a third party....and then I find myself getting closer and closer to instantly manifesting my desires out of thin air as I continue to take action to make it a reality......and then someone like you comes along and tries to tell me you know what you're talking about and I don't simply because of something you've been told to believe as opposed to the real life miracles I have experienced firsthand....I mean do you realize how ridiculous someone like you appears to someone like me? which one of us is the sheep again?

Well cot damn....I want some of whatever you're using.

Yeah it's good to keep an open mind, but at the same time there are certain flags and filters that come with the territory of intellectual properties. I suggest approaching things more epistemological.

that's the entire basis of what I'm talking about.. you can't say "yea you should have an open mind because anything's possible but at the same don't have an open mind because let's be real, not everything is possible". if you are trying to advance toward some goal, do you go towards it and then away from it....and then towards it and again back away from it? you'll never get anywhere that way. either you fully expand your mind to embrace the realization that absolutely ANYTHING is possible or just accept the fact that your mind hasn't developed to the point where it can handle the fact that there are infinite possibilities limited only by what you are willing to believe. think of it like a hard drive. when it fills the potential it's designed to have, it won't accept anything beyond that. the solution is to expand the capacity of the device. don't more and more expansive hard drives get released all the time almost like the amount of storage potential is infinite? tomorrow there will be one developed that can handle that much more energy than anything today. and where do these developments come from if not the human mind? if the human mind can develop an external device why can't it develop itself? the physical world is merely the surface it is not the origin it is not the foundation. mind is the builder as they say, as above so below. the foundation of existence is not the physical, the foundation is the metaphysical, the atomic, the subatomic, the quantum and infinitely smaller and deeper levels.

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by hombrelobo

Originally Posted by sillyputty

You're missing the point. It's about being able to guide your thoughts and feelings regardless of circumstance.

I just know that you'll never see an ACTUAL scientist or researcher of these topics on such a stage. 

Because psychologists and therapists best gift to a client ISN'T to teach a person how they can get control over their thoughts and feelings, right? Oh, okay. Never mind those psychologists. They don't do research!

I'm done with this kid. One last note, though.

These books can inform about moving your thoughts and feelings to better places (which doesn't mean you have to think absolutely positive all of the time!), you can't help but perceive a better external reality - your perception of the external world. It's not going to give you the power to control the outside world. Just like tuning into a radio station, though, if we dial a frequency with our thoughts and feelings we can receive a clear signal that matches that frequency. That's why someone who's habitually conscious and proficient at seeing what they want to see and feeling how they want to feel, regardless of temporary circumstances, will typically create experiences what they want.

And as far as the notion that no action is involved. The on the contrary, Hill's response is that action is the most important ingredient.

Sidenote- Working hard or even achieving a lot doesn't promise a happy life or even success in certain areas, like money.


I have no reservations with helping people to do this. I disagreed with one focus of his entire doctrine, not all of it. Don't take my criticism to be system-wide disapproval. 
I don't know what you're talking about... If you can't teach people about how to control their lives theyll forever just be walking around as mindless drones that are subject to the will of others. My point here is that the difference between academics in these fields and these charismatic speakers of sorts is their approach to substantiating their claims. These street-corner philosophers make ANY point and then start to find evidence to support it. The academics gather a bunch of evidence THEN make a conclusion. Its intellectually dishonest. Most of them get so wrapped up in hearing themselves talk that they don't even come to a clear understanding of what they're talking about. 

I have a dream of a place where everyone is rich, healthcare is free, and we're all getting laid. Thats a perspective of an external reality...it is NOT however that I must make unnecessary prayers or concede to a higher "authority" to "connect" with the world and learn about how to manipulate it to my liking. Thats NEVER going to happen. Thinking about a new life of improvements simply doesn't make it so. In the video on the first page there is literally NO advice this guy provides. None. There is no suggestion, there is no tip, there is no lesson. Hes rambling on and on about mental energy and what not and connecting with higher powers etc. He is the epitome of pseudoscientific people who just want to insert a couple big science words into their vocab to get their point across. Miss me with that one. 

Being conscious and humble about one's surroundings and being aware of our impact on others is one thing. Making unprovable and wild assertions about "thinking" then growing rich is utterly non-sense. There is NOTHING in those books about making spreadsheets. How to acquire capital. How to manage capital. How to manage other people. Nothing about actually making system by which you can interact with others to learn about areas by which you can actually improve yourself. Once again, its just people who sat down one weekend and hammered out a book of THEIR thoughts with very little evidence or systematic approach to their arguments. 




I agree that having a bad attitude and not being able to overcome minor set-backs will hinder the actions we take. But again...in the video that everyone is praising this guy on on the first page, where does he make ANY concession to that point? He doesn't. And further more, if actions are the most important part, why not focus on that? Its a serious question. Going to seminars on how to manage capital and develop strategies of work-flows is far more important than just "thinking" about being successful. Most successful people just DID...they didn't sit around just pondering all the time and thats the hardest thing we will ever have to over come ourselves. Making the leap is what makes us successful. 




There are NO guarantees. I completely agree with you there. But happiness isn't what we're talking about here is it? We were talking about success. Most happiness "guru's" teach people to humble themselves and be happy with what they have. It almost seems to me most of them focus on telling people to be complacent instead of being more empathetic while still seeking to make strides in the world. 

Originally Posted by man listen

that's the entire basis of what I'm talking about.. you can't say "yea you should have an open mind because anything's possible but at the same don't have an open mind because let's be real, not everything is possible". if you are trying to advance toward some goal, do you go towards it and then away from it....and then towards it and again back away from it? you'll never get anywhere that way. either you fully expand your mind to embrace the realization that absolutely ANYTHING is possible or just accept the fact that your mind hasn't developed to the point where it can handle the fact that there are infinite possibilities limited only by what you are willing to believe. think of it like a hard drive. when it fills the potential it's designed to have, it won't accept anything beyond that. the solution is to expand the capacity of the device. don't more and more expansive hard drives get released all the time almost like the amount of storage potential is infinite? tomorrow there will be one developed that can handle that much more energy than anything today. and where do these developments come from if not the human mind? if the human mind can develop an external device why can't it develop itself? the physical world is merely the surface it is not the origin it is not the foundation. mind is the builder as they say, as above so below. the foundation of existence is not the physical, the foundation is the metaphysical, the atomic, the subatomic, the quantum and infinitely smaller and deeper levels.

I think you were making sense until you got to this point...and I agree with you. But again, not everything is literally possible. Being able to think of something doesn't make it more likely to occur or even possible. We can all think of ways that being the president would be more fun, but we realistically know its not possible for a lot of our checklists to manifest. Having vivid imaginations makes it possible to achieve great things...I've seen it happen. Look at Richard Branson...dude dreams up wonderful business ideas...but what he doesn't do is make things that aren't realistic. He still finds a way to take his lofty idea and make it work using what he has. Hes realistically resourceful, not ideologically resourceful. NASA invented more stuff for the space program than we probably would have been able to create on our own...but they weren't limited by their thoughts, they knew they had to work within the context of real applications and making sure the things they made were reasonable and logical inventions. Dreaming isn't the end of the task, its the beginning, showing people how to MANIFEST their dreams is the real part. I've got a bunch of crazy business ideas...we all do...but where are we going to start making those happen? Being creative only goes so far. You need TOOLS to make stuff happen and to embrace a literal example of your dreams. 
Additionally you start talking about these terms about subatomic and quantum etc... you just lost yourself. Now, i'm not going to tell you that i'm Neil deGrass Tyson or something, but you've GOT to stop using words that you dont understand. I hate it when guys make these philosophical arguments and think they get off on just throwing around some scientific jargon that sounds cool just to validate their arguments. It makes them look foolish. And BTW, metaphysics is not respected by any real academic in any field. Sorry. It just isn't. It fails on the premise that simply because it can think of something then it makes it possible. I love hearing you guys talk about how you think pineal gland works and all these chemicals interacting with brain chemistry you dont understand and various organs that don't exist on topics that are just the result of verbal diarrhea. 

Originally Posted by man listen

you frequently dismiss what people say in spiritual terms in favor of using scientific terms. I remember you once said that someone committing a crime and getting punished for it is not the same thing as bad karma. you gotta understand that I believe and accept everything you talk about, the only difference is I have expanded my consciousness to where I believe everything that you can't comprehend beyond an intellectual level. for the most part we agree on things, I'm not going to try and convince you to be more spiritual or open up to a higher level of consciousness because I really don't care. it's not my responsibility to help you improve the quality of your life or show you that you actually could grow to 6'3 if you wanted. that's not scientific anyway right? you're cool with me bro, keep living your life in a way that you feel you are getting everything you truly desire knowing that literally anything is possible and I will do the same. peace  



I'm sorry. I actually like validating stuff that I say as opposed to just taking the first idea I come to as fact. 

Its not. Continuing to act in a manner in which other people deem as bad or harmful will just make it more likely for them to remember how little they like being around you and eventually catching you. Its not some mysterious grand design about energy. Its just that you can only rob a bank so many times before you get caught or you never get caught. Thats it. Its rare that you won't get caught so it could be on your first attempt or your 20th attempt....but getting caught is just that. Its not some mass conspiracy of some creator weighing the scales of justice. 

Its not MY fault you don't understand things that you know. What do you even mean by "you can't comprehend everything on an intellectual level?" Do you know what that means?  I'm not going to see a symmetrical snowflake and come to the conclusion that there is a god. This snowflake SEEMS to be symmetrical....it however does offer some imperfection at a certain level. On top of that whats to say that being symmetrical is a good thing? It may look aesthetically pleasing to us but you have to remember that its just our perception of these things, not how they SHOULD be. My point is that I'm not responsible for you not being able to understand things. Additionally you are doing a GREAT disservice to yourself in adopting things that you dont understand. if you take the words of others on blind faith then you are the reason why you don't understand something. There are plenty of things I don't understand, but that doesn't mean that I can't try to or that I should just accept half-thought out answers that dont even make a point. 

Cool. 

Anything is possible...but none of it is probable without evidence to lead to the conclusion that its reasonable. I can think of the superpowers I want but there is no means for me to even suggest that its possible to make these outside of my head. Its possible that there are pink elephants that roam uninhabited parts of a amazon...but until I can manifest either evidence or literal proof of one then its just that...ANYTHING. You're free to think whatever you want and to conjure up any scheme possible. Thats fine. Go ahead and do that. But don't sit here and act like by virtue of THINKING something that it makes it possible. 

 

[b smooth 202]

Not that I read these types of new age spirituality self-help books, but

this guy sillyputty, who is always talking about 'rampant narcissism'  thinks it has to proven to him God exists almost as if it's up to him (the 'neurologist', an obvious trend in atheists is they have a little science background so they think they can speak on God and actually be taken seriously) to verify whats true or not...'black atheists and atheists in general are a growing and vocal part of the population'

sit your @!@ down +#%#%

....your an empirical parrot, nuisance, and pest to the general forum, so you have to be proactive and post even more bull @$%# just so you can talk about your favorite thing in the world God, and how you don't believe, like any of us ever gave a !$%! what YOU believed...which is ironically another point you hammer in every one of your atheistic posts on this board.

Go join an Atheist Board, or maybe a couple more than your already on, since thats all you ever want to talk about, you might want to go talk to somebody in real life, your borderline obsessive with propagating your Atheistic Agenda on NT.

 

[soundnfury]

yo sillyputty recommend me a good book. i need a life coach.