NBA Off-Season News Thread: Roy extends 80/5, AI to Grizz, Chandler/Okafor swap, Marquis to C's.

Gasol was definitely an All Star caliber player in 03-04.

If he had gotten more minutes (only averaged 31 due to Hubie's ten man rotation), he would have gotten 20 and 10.
 
I swear to God, VC is so damn overrated on NT it's not funny. Dude is so far past his prime. 1 on 1, yes he's obviously better than Hedo, but Hedo isSO MUCH better of a team player/more valuable. Some dude above said Vince does everything Hedo does better and more, which is COMPLETELY FALSE.
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I also saw the terms "going through the motions","didn't care", "heart wasn't in it" BEING SAID ABOUT HEDO.
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...those 3 statementsbasically define VC's career. His amazing dunking ability/flair (which he doesn't have anymore BTW) is seriously clouding dudes' judgment...
 
We all watched the Finals. As good as Turk is, without the pick and pop going, or you put a top notch defender on him, he's not as effective as you'dlike him to be.

VC has an all around game, and creates his own shot better than Turk.
 
wow, so the Magic lose Turkoglu

but they gain VC, Bass, Barnes, Ryan Andersen and re-sign Gortat

great off-season for them
 
You guys are BUGGING.

Turkey isn't just a shooter. He can handle the ball, he can bounce to the rack, he can distribute, and, yes, he can shoot.

I don't understand this notion that he lives and dies shooting the ball.
 
Turk is good, but it's not THAT much of a downgrade to VC, if at all like some are claiming.

Turk can shoot it deep, and handle the rock better than VC but VC is more athletic and can iso better than Turk.

Like I said, we all watched the Finals. Turk was either ineffective because the pick and roll wasn't going, or, he had a top notch defender Ariza houndinghim. And if he got his, it was pretty quiet.
 
Over the last five years, Hedo Turkoglu (right) developed a reputation as the go-to guy for the Orlando Magic late in games.

He was there to take the shot and, sometimes, he made it. So naturally his departure to Toronto has left many fans wondering if the move to acquire Vince Carter (left) from New Jersey is an upgrade or a loss.

Magic fans should be happy.

A Sentinel statistical analysis of fourth-quarter performance between the players reveals that Carter is more efficient in the final period and just may be more effective, too.

In 75 fourth quarters last season, Carter shot better than 46 percent from the field and converted on 80.6 percent of his free throws. Turkoglu shot just under 38 percent in 101 fourth quarters last season and hit 79.6 percent of his free throws.

Some of the difference can be placed on the shooting style of the players. Carter takes higher-percentage shots while Turkoglu likes the 3.

An examination of other stats completes the comparison:

•Turkoglu averaged 5.1 points in the fourth quarter while Carter came in at 4.9 points - essentially a tie.

•But Turkoglu put up 29.6 percent of his total shots in that time while Carter took only 20.2 percent of his shots.

•Turkoglu took 33.1 percent of his 3-pointers in the fourth quarter and a high 38.9 percent of his free throws.

•But Turkoglu, whose 3-point percentage was 36 for the game, only made 31 percent in the fourth. Carter hit 38 percent of his 3-pointers in the fourth, which is about the same as his percentage for the game.

Both players also had a flair for the dramatic last season. Turkoglu hit memorable game-winners, including a 3-point bank shot in Portland and a step-back trey that won a playoff game against Philadelphia.

Carter helped the Nets win games against Toronto and Atlanta with his late-game heroics.

In a November game against Toronto, Carter started the fourth quarter 0-for-4, then went on to hit five straight shots, including a 3-pointer at the buzzer to send the game into overtime.

In overtime, Carter hit four of his five attempts. Carter scored 18 points in the fourth quarter and overtime that night.

Both players also had their share of late-game goofs as well.

Turkoglu missed three late free throws in an NBA Finals loss to the Lakers - still a painful memory for Magic fans.

Carter was whistled for traveling with 6 seconds left in a November loss to Miami and missed a potential game-tying layup in a March game against Boston.

In the end, these blunders are exceptions for the Magic's go-to guys - past and future. And while Magic fans wonder what fourth-quarter life after Turkoglu holds, the stats suggest the team will be all right without him.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/orl-sportsmagic13071309jul13,0,1773111.story
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The funny thing to me is, NT still criticizes Vince for not bringing it every night (with good reason, but that waslike 5 years ago) but don't mention a word about Turk being passive and inconsistent.
 
I didn't write this I'm just copying and pasting.
I like how the Sentinel says this to make it seem like they really did some analysis and didn't just jack numbers from a site like 82games.com. But then you look at all of the numbers they show and you realize how irrelevant they are to the discussion. The article is supposed to be about who is the better go-to-guy, not who wakes up to do more things in the 4th quarter than in the previous 3. Hell, I can be a player on the Magic, not take a single shot during the entire game and all of a sudden throw up brick after brick in the 4th quarter. If I make just one shot, the Sentinel would say in this article that 100% of my points came in the 4th quarter. That doesn't mean I'm good. The same goes for all the other stats they show.

I don't really care if Turk takes 33.1% of his 3's in the 4th as opposed to Vince's 20.0%. That tells me nothing about whether he's making those shots are not. Show me the production numbers-- how many points he scores off of 3's in the 4th and tell me what his shooting percentage is.

Here's how 82games.com compares the two players in crunch time (defined as 5 minutes left in the 4th or OT with neither team ahead by more than 5 points) in terms of production per 48 minutes:


Vince -5
Hedo +70
^ this probably has more to do with the Nets being a far worse team than the Magic down the stretch but it's interesting to see how big a difference there is between the players' .

POINTS
Vince 34.3
Hedo 26.6

FGa
Vince 24.5
Hedo 20.1

FG%
Vince 50.0
Hedo 35.7
^ It's pretty obvious from this stat that Vince shoots the ball a lot better down the stretch. 35% is pretty awful for any "go-to-guy" or "Mr. 4th Quarter."

3Pa
Vince 8.6
Hedo 7.2

3P%
Vince 50.0
Hedo 20.0
^ Vince's 3-point numbers equate to 12.9 clutch pp48 while Hedo's come out to 4.3 clutch pp48. So again, Vince's shooting is a heck of a lot better than Hedo's here.

FTa
Vince 6.4
Hedo 12.2
^ This is pretty big. We've seen how even if Hedo is having a bad shooting night, he can still put the ball on the floor, make a veteran move, and draw a foul to send him to the line. Turk has shown that he can be very productive down the stretch even if he's had a terrible game up until that point.

FT%
Vince 85.0
Hedo 88.0
^ pretty even and both guys are great.

ASSISTED
Vince 25%
Hedo 25%
^ I like how the percentages are identical. This tells me that both guys are creating their shots at the same rate and aren't dependent upon another player find them. This is what makes both of these players "go-to-guys." For comparison, Rashard Lewis is assisted 52% in the clutch, Dwight 63% Kobe 15%, and Lebron 20%.

REBOUNDS
Vince 5.5
Hedo 9.3
^ I'd say we'll miss Hedo's rebounding but the addition of Brandon Bass should help to mitigate that.

ASSISTS
Vince 4.3
Hedo 3.6
^ pretty even but Vince was putting up slightly better numbers on a far worse team. Hedo had Dwight and Rashard to dump the ball off to, who as we saw from the "assisted" stat, are very much "catch and put it up" kind of guys. Vince's assist numbers should jump up on the Magic

T/O
Vince 3.4
Hedo 1.4
^ kind of surprising to me that Hedo's turnover rate is so low. If Vince's number stays that high, it could be very frustrating for Magic fans this season.

BLK
Vince 0.9
Hedo 0.4
^ both numbers are so low it's kind of trivial.

STL
Vince 2.5
Hedo 0.4
^ Nice to see that Vince is getting 5 times as many steals as Hedo in the clutch. That's huge.
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I'm not arguing Turkey over Vince or vice versa. I just don't comprehend the "shooter" title he has so often been labeled.

Peja is a shooter. Hedo is a player.
 
Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

The funny thing to me is, NT still criticizes Vince for not bringing it every night (with good reason, but that was like 5 years ago) but don't mention a word about Turk being passive and inconsistent.
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I can tell you why by this GIF.
 
Potential big trade:
OTR has been informed about a deal which is almost done that will send Andre Miller to the Portland Trailblazers, Steve Blake and someone else to the Chicago Bulls, and Kirk Hinrich to the Philadelphia 76ers.

Apparently, this deal will get done if Andre Miller is able to get more money in some sort of way.

OTR isn't 100% positive that this deal has any truth to it, but thought we would just throw it out there.
What the hell you doing Portland? Hinrich is the PG you should be trading for
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I wasn't talking about who's a better "scorer" or "go-to-guy". I'll give you Vince on that one. ORL doesn't need a"scorer" (they already have enough of those). Turkey Jordan is a GIANT mismatch. (whereVC @ 6'6" is just another SF) PERIOD. I like the CAVS chances against ORL a lot better this year (@ the end of the day, that's all I really careabout).
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I'm done talking about VC vs. Hedo.
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Originally Posted by I NaSmatic I

Potential big trade:
OTR has been informed about a deal which is almost done that will send Andre Miller to the Portland Trailblazers, Steve Blake and someone else to the Chicago Bulls, and Kirk Hinrich to the Philadelphia 76ers.

Apparently, this deal will get done if Andre Miller is able to get more money in some sort of way.

OTR isn't 100% positive that this deal has any truth to it, but thought we would just throw it out there.
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What the hell you doing Portland? Hinrich is the PG you should be trading for
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Portland
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Originally Posted by EnEyeKayEe

I wasn't talking about who's a better "scorer" or "go-to-guy". I'll give you Vince on that one. ORL doesn't need a "scorer" (they already have enough of those). Turkey Jordan is a GIANT mismatch. (where VC @ 6'6" is just another SF) PERIOD. I like the CAVS chances against ORL a lot better this year (@ the end of the day, that's all I really care about).
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I'm done talking about VC vs. Hedo.
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Okay, but the thing is Vince Carter is not gonna be playing SF he is penciled in at Shooting Guard. If the Magic put Shard in SF then there isyour "GIANT mismatch."
 
A three-PG swap? I don't think I've ever seen that.

And hrm, I could have sworn that VC was injured recently..
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I hate to use the argument, but I think it holds true for Hedo if the team needed him to score more (ala Vince Carter), he could do it.

It's nothing against Vince, I've loved Vince his whole career. I just think right now, Hedo is a better player than Vince is. Hedo uses his body, useshis bulk to bully smaller defenders around. Vince is going to rely more and more on his jumper now, and I just don't know if VC can fulfill what Hedo did,hitting the big shots late in the game, getting where he wants on the floor, setting his teammates up for others.

I like Orlando, I really do, I like their entire roster, I just happened to like their roster last year better...
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Originally Posted by bhzmafia14

Mike you sure gasol didn't play like an allstar before 2006? He did the same exact same thing and showed his same skillset in previous years. Its just now he will become a consistent allstar and will probably be on a few more allstar teams due to how he's being used in la and the fact that he would be on a great team. Like put martin in cleveland and he will be an allstar easily. Produce the same as he did in sactown, but he's on a winning team and playing alongside a popular player.
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Word to All-Star Mo Williams!
 
Originally Posted by KnockoutNed

Originally Posted by EnEyeKayEe

I wasn't talking about who's a better "scorer" or "go-to-guy". I'll give you Vince on that one. ORL doesn't need a "scorer" (they already have enough of those). Turkey Jordan is a GIANT mismatch. (where VC @ 6'6" is just another SF) PERIOD. I like the CAVS chances against ORL a lot better this year (@ the end of the day, that's all I really care about).
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I'm done talking about VC vs. Hedo.
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Okay, but the thing is Vince Carter is not gonna be playing SF he is penciled in at Shooting Guard. If the Magic put Shard in SF then there is your "GIANT mismatch."
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That's only 1 mismatch now (which isn't even that serious)...Hedo + Shard @the 3 & 4 was the mismatch. It was basically 2 6'10" SG's...
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