NFL Discussion Thread - Hall of Fame Game: August 3rd

[HEATHEN]

Wilson is explosive but he doesn't have that elite top end speed like CJ2K and DHB etc. At least he didn't in college anyways.

CJ?K: 4.24

David Wilson: 4.29


If anything, I'd say Wilson is the faster of the two as of right now. Chris Johnson has been looking pretty poor in the pre-season (like a 2.8 per carry avg) and that's been against soft pre-season defenses. Chris Johnson hasn't had elite speed for over a season now.


Wilson is that dude . Not saying he's better than Chris Jonhson either, just saying that his speed is definitely amongst the upper-echelon speedsters in the league.


Nobody is seeing Jeff Demps in the open field though. :x....

 

[5am6oody72]

CJ?K: 4.24
David Wilson: 4.29
If anything, I'd say Wilson is the faster of the two as of right now. Chris Johnson has been looking pretty poor in the pre-season (like a 2.8 per carry avg) and that's been against soft pre-season defenses. Chris Johnson hasn't had elite speed for over a season now.
Wilson is that dude . Not saying he's better than Chris Jonhson either, just saying that his speed is definitely amongst the upper-echelon speedsters in the league.
Nobody is seeing Jeff Demps in the open field though. :x....

Bruh that's a 4.29 by VT's clock though. All kidding aside the times from VT guys at the combine this year were pretty damn accurate compared to what they ran at VT and Wilson is a legit 4.3 guy.

But from watching him in college he had a lot of big runs but not too many long ones where he ran away from the defense. I think part of that might be he ran so hard that he'd get tired and didn't have the stamina to get to top gear when in the open field. He would still run really hard and get a ton of YAC throughout games, but he did seem to lose a step after a series of tough runs. I think not getting 20+ carries a game with the Giants he will probably have fresher legs and show more burst.

 

[HEATHEN]

Bruh that's a 4.29 by VT's clock though. All kidding aside the times from VT guys at the combine this year were pretty damn accurate compared to what they ran at VT and Wilson is a legit 4.3 guy.
But from watching him in college he had a lot of big runs but not too many long ones where he ran away from the defense. I think part of that might be he ran so hard that he'd get tired and didn't have the stamina to get to top gear when in the open field. He would still run really hard and get a ton of YAC throughout games, but he did seem to lose a step after a series of tough runs. I think not getting 20+ carries a game with the Giants he will probably have fresher legs and show more burst.

You're right, his combine 40 was a 4.47. I also agree that he'll be more effective as the Giants pick his spots and limit him this season, I'd like to see him improve as a pass-catcher because I think he can eventually really excel in that area. The Giants need to take their time with the kid, he has a lot of potential.

I don't think he should get 20+ carries until he can prove himself as a competent pass-blocker, something Bradshaw excels at. I think he eventually supplants Bradshaw at some point next season, but at 26, this job is predominantly Bradshaw's for the foreseeable future.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

True. His prime is being wasted with these bum *** QB's. Kolb should thank Andy Reid for that contract.

Zona's oline is a mess & their best player Levi Brown is injured again. I can't figure out if Beanie Wells is bust or if he's just a product of that terrible line.

 

[deuce king]

Niners better watch it. Seattle's got an offense!
And I told ya'll about Foles.
Vikings :x

Keep thinking that champ, in the NFC West it goes, 49ers and them everybody else. As far as the Vikings go, just be happy they won at least 1 preseason game this year as that will most likely have to carry over for the regular season.

 

[champcruthik]

I've got it: SF, Seattle, Arizona, STL.

VT clocks would have you believe D. Hall ran a sub-4.00 if it were believable.

 

[champcruthik]

Anyone know what's good with Knowshon Moreno? Only asking because he's a Jersey guy.

 

[IATT]

I think there is a strong likelihood that Foles ends up our permanent starting QB within the next three years. If Vick gets cut in 2014, there's only 2.8M dead money. In 2015 it's only 1.4M. And in 2016, it's 0. If Reid and company like the way Foles is developing, I suspect we will see Vick gone by 2015.

[h1]Michael Vick's contract guarantees shrink after 2012[/h1]
Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Michael Vick suffered another rib injury when he took a shot from New England Patriots defensive end Jermaine Cunningham in the first quarter of last night's preseason game.

For Vick, it was his second injury in as many preseason games as he exited the opener with a left thumb injury. Injuries are nothing new for the 6-foot, 215-pound Vick, who has only played a full 16-game season one time (2006) in his nine-year career.

Given Vick's injury history, the "NFL AM" crew debated whether or not Vick's contract was a mistake.

Vick earned $20 million last season and will make another $12.5 million in fully guaranteed base salary in 2012. If Vick can stay healthy, and leads the Eagles to the playoffs again, the issue will be moot. However, the Eagles will have a decision to make shortly after Super Bowl XLVII.

Next season, Vick's base salary swells to $15.5 million, $3 million of which is currently guaranteed for injury only. If Vick is on the Eagles' roster on the second day of the 2013 waiver period, which is typically two days after the Super Bowl, that $3 million will become fully guaranteed (for skill, injury and cap).

So if Vick has another injury-plagued season, the Eagles could pay him the $3 million he's owed and get out from under the remaining $12.5 million in salary. If Vick stays healthy, but the team is not happy with his performance level or upcoming cap number ($16.9 million), they could release him after the Super Bowl, save $15.5 million and go with Nick Foles, Mike Kafka or a quarterback to be named later.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...-shrink-after-2012?module=HP11_headline_stack

well he has to stay healthy first..

and realistically this is his last year or two with the team anyways (he's 32 and obviously has an injury history).. and my thinking has always been the team would prepare for that by going with a QB in the 1st round in the next draft (there could be a couple pretty good QBs coming out AND a ton of teams are already committed to young guys.. so my thinking is/was a rodgers type situation could happen again this year)

only way i don't see the eagles taking a QB that high in the next draft, is if vick gets hurt this year THEN foles ends up playing and shows something 

 

[IATT]

Foles looking solid, but damn breh...
Let that boy MV7 cook, never has had a full training camp (only was there for about half the OTAs in '09-'10 since he got signed halfway through August, and of course with the lock-out last season there were shortened OTAs then) with the Eagles. Let's see how he does this season before penciling in his demise.
You Eagles fans, always the fickle bunch.

it's not fickle at all.. i mean sure there are people overreacting and saying we should start foles now, NOW THAT is overreacting..

but the reality is vick is 32 and has a history of injuries (he's only played 16 games once in his career).. you can see by the way the eagles structured the contract they had this in mind.. and i believe they will start planning for post vick very soon

as i mentioned above, a ton of QBs could be coming out in this upcoming draft and because a number of teams have already recently invested in young guys (and/or you have a couple teams with their established guy already, thus no need that early) you could end up with some quality guys dropping (a la rodgers)

realistically given vick's style of play and his age, how much more time do you give him?

 

[HEATHEN]

it's not fickle at all.. i mean sure there are people overreacting and saying we should start foles now, NOW THAT is overreacting..

but the reality is vick is 32 and has a history of injuries (he's only played 16 games once in his career).. you can see by the way the eagles structured the contract they had this in mind.. and i believe they will start planning for post vick very soon

as i mentioned above, a ton of QBs could be coming out in this upcoming draft and because a number of teams have already recently invested in young guys (and/or you have a couple teams with their established guy already, thus no need that early) you could end up with some quality guys dropping (a la rodgers)


realistically given vick's style of play and his age, how much more time do you give him?

not much time at all, which is what makes him so damned dangerous. you can't pull the rug out from under him right now, that's just madness.


As a Giants fan, there's NOTHING in the NFC East I fear more than Mike Vick backed into a corner. You back that guy into a corner, he'll make you pay. He's done things I've NEVER seen a QB do on a field before. :x ....

Finally he has a full-training camp, a seemingly motivated and focused DeSean who he seems to share a solid rapport with, a premier RB, a solid defense, and another solid receiver in Maclin. He knows this is it, and because of that, this will be MV7s defining moment. He's got nothing to lose at this point, he's 32, he only needs to look at his predecessor to appreciate the gravity of his situation.


I'd be out my damned mind to count out Vick, dude is going to ball his heart out this season, 'til the wheels fall off.


Also as far as the Eagles go as a whole, this is win now. Top-3 RBs don't grow on trees nor do they stay age 24 forever, fastest aging position in sports, period. Andy Reid is not going to coach forever, especially with everything he's endured with his family. This team is supremely talented, if they don't win now it's just another talented group of Eagles that never got it done, can't see that happening. Think this squad will rally behind their QB and their coach.


NFC East will boil down to Giants vs Eagles divisionals....Lord, have mercy. :x


I'mma stop talking before people start thinking I'm an Eagles homer, but seriously, Eagles fans, have some faith in your QB!!! He's a special talent!!!

 

[bigmike23]

I'd love to see who's faster between David Wilson and Chris Johnson. Giants got a good one...dude is a legit HR threat.

the race wouldnt even be close

 

[5am6oody72]

You're right, his combine 40 was a 4.47. I also agree that he'll be more effective as the Giants pick his spots and limit him this season, I'd like to see him improve as a pass-catcher because I think he can eventually really excel in that area. The Giants need to take their time with the kid, he has a lot of potential.
I don't think he should get 20+ carries until he can prove himself as a competent pass-blocker, something Bradshaw excels at. I think he eventually supplants Bradshaw at some point next season, but at 26, this job is predominantly Bradshaw's for the foreseeable future.

Yea he was way under-used as a receiver at VT. He's not as instinctive or patient between the tackles but he's great out in space. What makes him special moreso than speed is his balance, especially at high speed, and his ability to get YAC for his size.

 

[IATT]

not much time at all, which is what makes him so damned dangerous. you can't pull the rug out from under him right now, that's just madness.
As a Giants fan, there's NOTHING in the NFC East I fear more than Mike Vick backed into a corner. You back that guy into a corner, he'll make you pay. He's done things I've NEVER seen a QB do on a field before.

....
Finally he has a full-training camp, a seemingly motivated and focused DeSean who he seems to share a solid rapport with, a premier RB, a solid defense, and another solid receiver in Maclin. He knows this is it, and because of that, this will be MV7s defining moment. He's got nothing to lose at this point, he's 32, he only needs to look at his predecessor to appreciate the gravity of his situation.
I'd be out my damned mind to count out Vick, dude is going to ball his heart out this season, 'til the wheels fall off.
Also as far as the Eagles go as a whole, this is win now. Top-3 RBs don't grow on trees nor do they stay age 24 forever, fastest aging position in sports, period. Andy Reid is not going to coach forever, especially with everything he's endured with his family. This team is supremely talented, if they don't win now it's just another talented group of Eagles that never got it done, can't see that happening. Think this squad will rally behind their QB and their coach.
NFC East will boil down to Giants vs Eagles divisionals....Lord, have mercy.

this is exactly why i want vick for this season, he gives us the best chance to win right now.. and hopefully next..

this was always my thinking even before the whole foles thing, since i figured we would draft someone high in this upcoming draft AND then that guy could sit behind vick for a year

but vick really only gets next year depending on what he can do this year.. and he needs to stay healthy and be on the field to show that

but really with the youth of most of our team, we have the time to move on from vick IF his successor is either on the roster right now or drafted in this upcoming draft (to learn the playbook and all that) and prepared to step in within a year or 2 (a la rodgers)

- our only starters 30 or over are: vick, babin, jenkins, nnamdi, evan mathis, hanson (still the slot CB for now, not sure how long i can say that with boykin), dorenbos (long snapper) and mcbriar (if he ends up being our punter)

 

[651akathepaul]

Keep thinking that champ, in the NFC West it goes, 49ers and them everybody else. As far as the Vikings go, just be happy they won at least 1 preseason game this year as that will most likely have to carry over for the regular season.

So original, you are.

 

[theone2401]

Wilson is explosive but he doesn't have that elite top end speed like CJ2K and DHB etc. At least he didn't in college anyways.

CJ2K doesnt have the most elite top end speed either to be honest his first ten yards are what is unreal.

David Wilson only has one gear and that is top speed which is why I feel he is not capable of becoming a more patient/instinctive runner.

He is going to have a ton of big plays though.

 

[jjs07]

the race wouldnt even be close

Well, with that argument, I can't win. Good point, Mike.

 

[gunna get it]

Nah Bruh

you think someone who runs close to a 4.5 is touching someone who runs closer to a 4.2 than a 4.3

and Chris is more than a 10 yard burst guy. he has legit -10.3 100m track speed.

David Wilson fast. Johnson is Stupid fast.

Darren McFadden and CJ Spiller (Not counting Jeff Demps) are more than likely the only RBs in the NFL in a similar speed class as Chris Johnson

 

[dajoka004]

itsaboutthattime,

Money saved doesn't equate to cap money saved. Use http://www.eaglescap.com/Players/MichaelVick.html

And don't get it twisted. I want Mike to succeed. He is our best option right now. But he needs to stay healthy and perform extremely well if we're going to keep him and take a $16.9M cap hit in 2014 rather than dumping him and only costing ourselves $2.4M. Of course he could just restructure.

 

[keithdajuiceman]

Ryan deep passing looking good

 

[buc em]

I can honestly say that the Bucs will probably be looking to draft or trade/sign for a new quarterback next offseason. I like Freeman, but the guy stares down his receivers like no other starting quarterback in the league. He has a very nice offense around him so he has zero excuses this year. For the first time I heard Mark Dominik say "he's got two years left on his contract and we have to see what we've got." So I can definitely feel some people within the organization losing a little confidence in him. Hopefully he does have a big bounceback season...but I'd give up the FARM for Matt Barkley.

 

[Kimchi Papi]

I can honestly say that the Bucs will probably be looking to draft or trade/sign for a new quarterback next offseason. I like Freeman, but the guy stares down his receivers like no other starting quarterback in the league. He has a very nice offense around him so he has zero excuses this year. For the first time I heard Mark Dominik say "he's got two years left on his contract and we have to see what we've got." So I can definitely feel some people within the organization losing a little confidence in him. Hopefully he does have a big bounceback season...but I'd give up the FARM for Matt Barkley.

I agree with your point about Freeman staring down receivers, but do you think the Buc's OC Sullivan is running an offense that suits Freeman? He hasn't looked comfortable in it during the preseason (granted it's the preseason).

BTW, who thinks the Panthers are going to shred the jets? Jets saving grace is their secondary (specifically the DBs) but they don't have a good d-line or LBs...

 

[mmg]

It's looking like a 6-10/7-9 year for the jets, offense is looking :x and they built their defense wrong, they started with DBs first instead of DL

 

[buc em]

Freeman hasn't looked comftorable in any offense since 2010 really. He stopped scrambling and doing the things that made people really like him in his first year as a starter. He's turned into a pocket passer, and not a good one. I still have a little bit of hope that Freeman is going to turn back into the player he was. He has two beast RB's, a good offensive line, V-Jax, Mike Williams, Dallas Clark and some young receivers that are pretty solid. If Andrew Luck or RG3 had that offense I bet they'd be doing work.

 

[theone2401]

Well, with that argument, I can't win. Good point, Mike.

David Wilson looks faster than he really is because he is always running at full speed cause he has no "gears".

Thats what Mike meant to say


Thats right I forgot Chris Johnson did run a 10.3 100 meters before. He must be letting off the gas like Usain when he gets inside the 20 then.

 

[flyerthandelta]

Cj2k is stupid fast as in Deion Sanders