NFL :ESPN's Top 25 players this decade

[highrep87]

Shaun Alexander

 

[DownByLaw]

Originally Posted by ChampCruThik

Kids? Gtfohwtbs, I am probably older than you

. I don't need to give a reason as to why I think he's better than the players you listed. By you listing Ronde over Troy exemplifies you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Lynch & Dawkins, really? Troy out tackled and had more picks in a 5 year span than Dawkins had in the entire decade. The same can be said about Lynch. Let us not forget either that Troy has played a significant role in the Steelers wining their last 2 Superbowls, while Ronde was a secondary piece when Tampa Bay's LB core was the heart and soul of their D when they won the Super Bowl. Lynch and Dawkins are great players, don't get me wrong, but I am taking Polamalu over anyone you mentioned because he is younger and he is better.

See you took that quite literally

"Kids," people, take your pick.

You don't need to give reasoning?? Really...as this debate develops I can personally guarantee you that numerous people on this board consider Polamalu overrated and maybe even undeserving of being on this list. Moreover, "I don't know what the hell I'm talking about?" This amuses me considering I'm positive my football knowledge trumps yours by a landslide

But back to the argument at hand...

Exhibit A: You discredit Ronde's contribution to Tampa's SB victory which makes you a hypocrite. Why? Because Troy Polamalu quite possibly more than anyone else benefits from the great defensive system he plays in (Pittsburgh and LeBeau) as well as the strong supporting cast he's had from day one (Hampton, Farrior, Harrison, Woodley, etc.). If Ronde benefits from the Tampa-2, then Polamalu is largely a product of LeBeau's scheme and the players around him that allow Troy the opportunities to make the plays that inflate his stats, which you were so kind to point out.

And Ronde was playing just as well without Warren Sapp and an aging Derrick Brooks...so much for that argument. He's notorious for being one of the best playmakers in the league regardless of who he plays with. Can't say the same for Troy.

Exhibit B: You mention those statistics as if that defines the Polamalu/Dawkins comparison all together, which you will learn it doesn't. Quite convenient on your end may I add. But let me humor you and make the actual comparison:
Polamalu - 88 games played, 327 tackles, 7 FF, 3 FR, 17 INT, 5 Pro Bowls, and twice was All-Pro first team
Dawkins (2000-on) - 124 games played, 506 tackles, 25 FF, 11 FR, 22 INT, 6 Pro Bowls, and was All-Pro first team FOUR times

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Troy actually DID NOT "out-tackle" Dawkins in that span. Nor did he have more INT in a five year span than Dawkins in the entire decade as you so eloquently put. So where did you get that from?

So in conclusion: Dawkins has more tackles, FF, FR, INT, Pro Bowls, and All-Pro first teams...um that's every relevant category. Also curious as to why you left out FF, FR, Pro Bowls, and All-Pro first teams to begin with. You wanted to play the stats game and not only did you provide inaccurate information, but you were proven wrong at your own game - the very basis of your argument and defense for Troy Polamalu.

For some reason you completely disgregard the category of impact on the game of football. Brian Dawkins and John Lynch are both known as big hitters who have been excellent leaders throughout their long NFL careers. Their impact game-to-game should be counted just as much as any stats. Dawkins and Lynch were intimidating and feared by receivers going over the middle of the field. Furthermore, their reputations on the field as hitters/leaders changed the course of games for their teams any way you look at it. Now let me ask you: is Troy the leader of that Pittsburgh defense? No. What's his reputation as a defensive football player? Not really known as a hitter with those whopping shoe-string tackles. Playmaker is very arguable but go ahead and make that argument if you can. Do opposing teams fear Polamalu's presence or alter their gameplans as a result?? Didn't think so.

"The same can be said about Lynch." I see you have little to say or argue about John Lynch in comparison to Polamalu. Whether you make a claim or defend a point, you need credible and legitimate support/evidence to strengthen your position. Assertions DOES NOT serve as evidence.

Ok, I'm not saying Troy Polamalu isn't a good player because clearly he is. However, my arugment is that he's overrated and doesn't belong on this list. In my opinion, Dawkins and Ronde are both more deserving and if I had more time I'd argue John Lynch's case as well.

Exhibit C: Who cares if Polamalu is younger? What's the relevance in that?? This list is ESPN's opinion on the top 25 players of this decade and what they've accomplished TO DATE. It seems you are closing your argument by implying what Troy will do in the future, which is mere speculation and holds no weight whatsoever in this debate.

NTers time and time again baffle me with their inability to remain objective and unbiased. The minute their favorite team or player is criticized, they leap in defense with little evidence or support. So out of curiousity, what NFL team are you a fan of First Born?

You're baffled by the inability to remain objective? You're an Eagles homer and became bent out of shape because Troy was ranked higherthan Dawkins. The stats I stated were based off of 2003-2008 seasons. If you add Dawkins 2000-2003 of course they are going to come out on top because Troy wasin college. Of course this is all objectibve and we can keep going back and forth as to whom we feel in our opinion is better, but the fact is we don'tagree. Let me go on the record as saying I don't think that Ronde, Lynch or Dawkins is overrated. I simply disagree with your stance that Troy is. I findit humorous how people such as yourself always have to take shots at particular players to validate the legitimacy of the players they root for. For yourinformation, I am a New York Giants fan.

 

[ezflash26]

Jason Taylor the 5th best player this decade? Ehh...just seems too high. I understand they are factoring production more than anything else, hence S. Alexanderbeing on there. But I'd put Champ & 88 over him. Probably Ray too.

And yea, dont have a problem at all with Holt being over Moss....

 

[q46tothee]

No Patrick Willis???


yes, sarcasm

 

[ccb21040]

3 ravens made the list

 

[champcruthik]

Ronde Barber as a "secondary piece" the Bucs success...

Come on, Gunna...Ronde was carried by that LB core withShelton Quarles and Ryan Nece!!

You're baffled by the inability to remain objective? You're an Eagles homer and became bent out of shape because Troy was ranked higher than Dawkins. The stats I stated were based off of 2003-2008 seasons. If you add Dawkins 2000-2003 of course they are going to come out on top because Troy was in college. Of course this is all objectibve and we can keep going back and forth as to whom we feel in our opinion is better, but the fact is we don't agree. Let me go on the record as saying I don't think that Ronde, Lynch or Dawkins is overrated. I simply disagree with your stance that Troy is. I find it humorous how people such as yourself always have to take shots at particular players to validate the legitimacy of the players they root for. For your information, I am a New York Giants fan.
Is this the part you lash out with personal attacks in an angry tirade simply because I proved you wrong using the very statistics you personallyreferenced?

I believe I proved my point sufficiently, but I'll entertain you one more time before I get my cardio in for the day

Wow, "Eagles homer?" I swear you wouldn't have even known my squad if I didn't have it in my sig...but ok let's have at it. Number onelease find one instance in the history of NikeTalk where I came off as an "Eagles homer." If anything I'm the most critical of my team and havemade threads bashing Andy Reid in recent years.

Secondly, you say I was mad because the list has Troy over Dawkins yet you selectively leave out a key portion of my argument - the other two players I namedin place of Polamalu which was Ronde and John Lynch. Last time I checked they didn't play for the Eagles. Then I went on to defend my opinion in a strong,detailed manner...whereas you make blank statements with little substance such as "I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about" and "thesame can be said about Lynch." Once again, assertions do not serve as evidence, something you might learn in a master's program one day.

Moreover, I'm such an "Eagles homer" that in the recent thread on top corners/safeties I have Polamalu (4th) ranked over Dawkins (10th). Sobiased of me...

As far as your stats comment, you misspoke in your original statement if you meant to say just the 2003-2008 seasons. Even so any statistics JUST from2003-2008 is trivial in regards to the top 25 list as well as player comparison (Dawkins to Polamalu). The first reason being it makes no sense to eliminate aportion of Dawkins' career to help further your arugment. That's not being fair or reasonable. Also, this isn't a list of the top 25 players from2003-2008...it's a list compiled by ESPN of the top 25 players this DECADE (2000-2009).

Lastly, it's duly noted that you don't feel Ronde, Lynch, or Dawkins are overrated. And you can disagree with my belief that Troy is overrated, butyou've done nothing to prove me wrong or even weaken my argument if that was your intention.

This wasn't a "shot" at Polamalu, I've said myself that I think he's a good player and currently the 4th best safety in the league. Buthe is overrated by many and does not belong on this list when it's all said and done. Ronde, Lynch, and Dawkins are all better options to replace him andI've provided much evidence for this. The whole validate legitimacy comment is even more off base and makes you seem even more bitter. I'm not even a"fan" of Ronde or John Lynch. I appreciate what they do from a neutral standpoint as a major football follower.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

TO, Holt, Moss>>Harrison

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by ChampCruThik

Ronde Barber as a "secondary piece" the Bucs success...

Come on, Gunna...Ronde was carried by that LB core with Shelton Quarles and Ryan Nece!!

You're baffled by the inability to remain objective? You're an Eagles homer and became bent out of shape because Troy was ranked higher than Dawkins. The stats I stated were based off of 2003-2008 seasons. If you add Dawkins 2000-2003 of course they are going to come out on top because Troy was in college. Of course this is all objectibve and we can keep going back and forth as to whom we feel in our opinion is better, but the fact is we don't agree. Let me go on the record as saying I don't think that Ronde, Lynch or Dawkins is overrated. I simply disagree with your stance that Troy is. I find it humorous how people such as yourself always have to take shots at particular players to validate the legitimacy of the players they root for. For your information, I am a New York Giants fan.
Is this the part you lash out with personal attacks in an angry tirade simply because I proved you wrong using the very statistics you personally referenced?

I believe I proved my point sufficiently, but I'll entertain you one more time before I get my cardio in for the day

Wow, "Eagles homer?" I swear you wouldn't have even known my squad if I didn't have it in my sig...but ok let's have at it. Number one: please find one instance in the history of NikeTalk where I came off as an "Eagles homer." If anything I'm the most critical of my team and have made threads bashing Andy Reid in recent years.

Secondly, you say I was mad because the list has Troy over Dawkins yet you selectively leave out a key portion of my argument - the other two players I named in place of Polamalu which was Ronde and John Lynch. Last time I checked they didn't play for the Eagles. Then I went on to defend my opinion in a strong, detailed manner...whereas you make blank statements with little substance such as "I have no idea what the hell I'm talking about" and "the same can be said about Lynch." Once again, assertions do not serve as evidence, something you might learn in a master's program one day.

Moreover, I'm such an "Eagles homer" that in the recent thread on top corners/safeties I have Polamalu (4th) ranked over Dawkins (10th). So biased of me...

As far as your stats comment, you misspoke in your original statement if you meant to say just the 2003-2008 seasons. Even so any statistics JUST from 2003-2008 is trivial in regards to the top 25 list as well as player comparison (Dawkins to Polamalu). The first reason being it makes no sense to eliminate a portion of Dawkins' career to help further your arugment. That's not being fair or reasonable. Also, this isn't a list of the top 25 players from 2003-2008...it's a list compiled by ESPN of the top 25 players this DECADE (2000-2009).

Lastly, it's duly noted that you don't feel Ronde, Lynch, or Dawkins are overrated. And you can disagree with my belief that Troy is overrated, but you've done nothing to prove me wrong or even weaken my argument if that was your intention.

This wasn't a "shot" at Polamalu, I've said myself that I think he's a good player and currently the 4th best safety in the league. But he is overrated by many and does not belong on this list when it's all said and done. Ronde, Lynch, and Dawkins are all better options to replace him and I've provided much evidence for this. The whole validate legitimacy comment is even more off base and makes you seem even more bitter. I'm not even a "fan" of Ronde or John Lynch. I appreciate what they do from a neutral standpoint as a major football follower.


That my friends, ends this argument.

 

[goldmember]

Shaun Alexander, really?

 

[champcruthik]

CP

I'm rollin' over here.

 

[DeadsetAce]

we STILL arguing over safeties in here?

 

[daytona 5000]

Tom Brady on the top of the throne where he belongs

 

[scotthallwithapick]

I like when people back up their points. It amuses me

 

[i fr3sh i]

Can someone explain to me how Shaun Alexander made the list but not Priest Holmes?

 

[blacklion23]

Originally Posted by Jetpacunlimited

NO VICK!?!?!

Vick should be this list.

 

[TheGift23]

Vick shouldn't be on this list.

 

[JD617]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Originally Posted by Jetpacunlimited

NO VICK!?!?!

Can you even make a legitimate argument for him though?

It's Jetpacunlimited. He can't make a legitimate argument about anything.

 

[statis22]

Somewhat random but does any of the posters who thought Shaun Alexander was overrated think Adrian Peterson is too?

 

[gunna get it]

Originally Posted by Statis22

Somewhat random but does any of the posters who thought Shaun Alexander was overrated think Adrian Peterson is too?

POW!

 

[DeadsetAce]

Originally Posted by blacklion23

Originally Posted by Jetpacunlimited

NO VICK!?!?!

Vick should be this list.

brady, manning, warner, big ben - superbowl titles, league MVPs

what's vick have?

cmon now...he's a great athlete and a good player...but top 25? stop the homerism

 

[JD617]

Originally Posted by JordanNB23

Tom Brady gets a little too much love..You can plug in tons of Qb's in that system and get the same results..Nobody ever gives credit to him having one of the best defenses everytime he steps out of the locker room..The one year he had his best year ever they end up losing the SB to a DEFENSIVE team..Every SB win he had was probably won by less than a TD..He's a glorified game manager..Never is asked to force anything..just plays field position..and the O line is sick

Yeah, what a loser. Winning Super Bowls by only 3 points each. He sucks.

 

[TheGift23]

Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by blacklion23

Originally Posted by Jetpacunlimited

NO VICK!?!?!

Vick should be this list.

brady, manning, warner, big ben - superbowl titles, league MVPs

what's vick have?

cmon now...he's a great athlete and a good player...but top 25? stop the homerism

His argument will be Vick's 90+ speed in Madden

 

[joshuatree2192]

at T.O. being 24th on the list.

 

[champcruthik]

Somewhat random but does any of the posters who thought Shaun Alexander was overrated think Adrian Peterson is too?
I see what you're getting at, but I certainly don't think so.

AD has an older version of Hutchinson and never ran behind Walter Jones. McKinnie is a pretty good LT himself and Minny's O-line in general is more thanadequate but the main difference is that AD makes plays that are a credit to his talent as a runner more so than the offensive line creating running lanes.Take the game against San Diego for example. Most of those highlight runs were support for AD as a great football player and athlete.

 

[downtown43]

Originally Posted by Statis22

Somewhat random but does any of the posters who thought Shaun Alexander was overrated think Adrian Peterson is too?

no, because we actually watch football.

Peterson, after 2 seasons, is one of the best runners i have ever seen.