NT black men come in sitdown and persuade me

Simply how can our women be complete, whole and nurturing? From birth the lack of masculine energy is absent from her cipher. In this absence her heart broken and malnourished mother is bashing her father or simply not speaking of him. All the music movies and images she has of those she identifies with are refered to treated as and called a ***!# a %%%, %!%%*+% "angry black woman". The massive tear in the psyche and ultimately spirit is unrepairable after a series of men she was emotional attached to broke her heart. These women want love but have no clue what love is. The sweet nature and warmth has disenegrated by the time they are 21. Then when a real man comes around that is capable of loving them the right way he can't because in her subconscious he isn't gonna continue to perpetuate the pain she is addicted to. That's why the chicks love drama and like being victims they are addicted to that !*$!. I'm tired of playing therapist to these females I just want some semi sane !*$!!
 
Not all black women are the stereotypical "+%%*%+%", "I don't need a man, I could do things for myself", or "miss attitude". I know a lot of black women that are educated, respectful, and kind.

All women have something "off" about them; no matter what race, tax bracket, height, weight, education, etc. The same thing applies to us men as well.
 
Not all black women are the stereotypical "+%%*%+%", "I don't need a man, I could do things for myself", or "miss attitude". I know a lot of black women that are educated, respectful, and kind.

All women have something "off" about them; no matter what race, tax bracket, height, weight, education, etc. The same thing applies to us men as well.
 
Originally Posted by moneymike88

1253930-this_thread_again_super.jpg
Came in here to post this.
laugh.gif
 
Its like ground hog day when I date this chicks. I already know what there gonna say. Good girls don't care about what their man does. (B.s. you put yourself on a pedestal so you expect him to have bread no matter how loyal and honest he is) The sluts pretending to be good don't want a dude because they are "having fun". The party girls wanna be famous or get self esteem boost(same thing) The rats just wanna get dug out. The educated girls try to front like they independent but in reality they are alone because they are socially inept and too picky. Weaves are in, drinking is the vice weed is for free time and @*** is not a four letter word.
 
Its like ground hog day when I date this chicks. I already know what there gonna say. Good girls don't care about what their man does. (B.s. you put yourself on a pedestal so you expect him to have bread no matter how loyal and honest he is) The sluts pretending to be good don't want a dude because they are "having fun". The party girls wanna be famous or get self esteem boost(same thing) The rats just wanna get dug out. The educated girls try to front like they independent but in reality they are alone because they are socially inept and too picky. Weaves are in, drinking is the vice weed is for free time and @*** is not a four letter word.
 
Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by kilojules64

Holy moly, I never even think about race in relation to the guys I meet, NT is like a whole different world or something.

There are so many situations were race is brought up on NT that most normal people do not think about.
  
Normal people? The funniest part is that I am sure Kilojules64 is not black.

NT is a valid place to talk about things that cannot be talked about in a "real-life" setting.

The reason individuals post on subjects as these, is it's kinda hard to discuss the real issue at hand-without emotion getting out of hand. Personally I find it hard to discuss on topics such as these- because honestly alot of my friends have girlfriends that are black, and at the very least have sisters who share the same traits that irk individuals like myself and OP. 


  

I didn't assume jules was black if u thought i did.

I'm not referring to this topic specifically. The sentiments brought up in this thread are very real. In my own experience there are other situations on NT were race is brought up  that would never be in real life.

Maybe its the anonymity?
  
it's not the anonymity.. its more likely the fact that your "normal" life is not other people's "normal" life.

i'll be hanging with one group of friends and race won't even come up. but with other friends, they've grown up to be so race conscious that our conversations always have a racial tinge. no one group of friends is better than the other, they just come from different environments and see life differently.

so consider that not everyone lives in your "race-free" environment, some people are just naturally conditioned to inject race into things because thats what they know.


I grew up in as many diverse environments (Racially and economically) as a human-being possible can. From all white, to all black to mixed....very wealthy to the poor. People have brought up race, just not as much as I've seen it on NT and not in completely unrelated situations. If NT were real life I would have one of these conversations daily, and that simply isn't the case. That's why I brought up anonymity, I guess race is a touchy subject and some may feel uncomfortable bringing it up or simply don't care.

NT is also serves as a constitutive audience for people to vent or voice their opinions or thoughts. I rarely bring up religion in real life unless someone asks. On NT with a click of the mouse anyone can bring it up for those who care to comment.

I guess you're right some people are conditioned to insert racially influences subjectivity into every human-interaction and into making every decision. I was lucky in that the people I surrounded myself with, white and black were not like this.


As far as this thread goes, I think people are misunderstanding what OP is saying to mean he thinks all black women are like that. The type of black women he's referring to are making normal, non-rambunctious, black women look bad.
Can we please stop acting like what  the OP said is okay? Here we have another delusional black man professing his disgust with "black women." Just because you have been exclusively involved with hoodrats doesn't mean all black women are like that. I see a ton of low life black dudes in the hood all the time but I don't go around thinking that these $+!%%+@ black men are a reflection of all black men. Have you ever left the hood OP? I feel sad for you because you are so small-minded and conditioned it's sickening.
 
Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by kilojules64

Holy moly, I never even think about race in relation to the guys I meet, NT is like a whole different world or something.

There are so many situations were race is brought up on NT that most normal people do not think about.
  
Normal people? The funniest part is that I am sure Kilojules64 is not black.

NT is a valid place to talk about things that cannot be talked about in a "real-life" setting.

The reason individuals post on subjects as these, is it's kinda hard to discuss the real issue at hand-without emotion getting out of hand. Personally I find it hard to discuss on topics such as these- because honestly alot of my friends have girlfriends that are black, and at the very least have sisters who share the same traits that irk individuals like myself and OP. 


  

I didn't assume jules was black if u thought i did.

I'm not referring to this topic specifically. The sentiments brought up in this thread are very real. In my own experience there are other situations on NT were race is brought up  that would never be in real life.

Maybe its the anonymity?
  
it's not the anonymity.. its more likely the fact that your "normal" life is not other people's "normal" life.

i'll be hanging with one group of friends and race won't even come up. but with other friends, they've grown up to be so race conscious that our conversations always have a racial tinge. no one group of friends is better than the other, they just come from different environments and see life differently.

so consider that not everyone lives in your "race-free" environment, some people are just naturally conditioned to inject race into things because thats what they know.


I grew up in as many diverse environments (Racially and economically) as a human-being possible can. From all white, to all black to mixed....very wealthy to the poor. People have brought up race, just not as much as I've seen it on NT and not in completely unrelated situations. If NT were real life I would have one of these conversations daily, and that simply isn't the case. That's why I brought up anonymity, I guess race is a touchy subject and some may feel uncomfortable bringing it up or simply don't care.

NT is also serves as a constitutive audience for people to vent or voice their opinions or thoughts. I rarely bring up religion in real life unless someone asks. On NT with a click of the mouse anyone can bring it up for those who care to comment.

I guess you're right some people are conditioned to insert racially influences subjectivity into every human-interaction and into making every decision. I was lucky in that the people I surrounded myself with, white and black were not like this.


As far as this thread goes, I think people are misunderstanding what OP is saying to mean he thinks all black women are like that. The type of black women he's referring to are making normal, non-rambunctious, black women look bad.
Can we please stop acting like what  the OP said is okay? Here we have another delusional black man professing his disgust with "black women." Just because you have been exclusively involved with hoodrats doesn't mean all black women are like that. I see a ton of low life black dudes in the hood all the time but I don't go around thinking that these $+!%%+@ black men are a reflection of all black men. Have you ever left the hood OP? I feel sad for you because you are so small-minded and conditioned it's sickening.
 
Originally Posted by My Swag Runz Deep

On behalf of all black women who don't fit your pea-brained stereotype: Shut the f up.



this. My first girlfriend was black and she was on of the nicest  women  i've  known  not close-minded
 
Originally Posted by My Swag Runz Deep

On behalf of all black women who don't fit your pea-brained stereotype: Shut the f up.



this. My first girlfriend was black and she was on of the nicest  women  i've  known  not close-minded
 
Originally Posted by WISEPHAROAH

Its like ground hog day when I date this chicks. I already know what there gonna say. Good girls don't care about what their man does. (B.s. you put yourself on a pedestal so you expect him to have bread no matter how loyal and honest he is) The sluts pretending to be good don't want a dude because they are "having fun". The party girls wanna be famous or get self esteem boost(same thing) The rats just wanna get dug out. The educated girls try to front like they independent but in reality they are alone because they are socially inept and too picky. Weaves are in, drinking is the vice weed is for free time and @*** is not a four letter word.
I think you have to understand that everyone has a struggle EVERYONE there is no such thing as a perfect person and you keep talking about black girls who don't have a father okay well what about the girls that do ?

There are many people of different races who don't have a father and go though problems because of it not just black girls

And as for the socially picky that's not every black girl not every girl wants a "baller" because the reality is not everyone is a "baller"

It seriously sounds to me like you was hurt by a black girl if that's case its sad but you can't pin that chicks problems on a whole RACE of people that's just illogical
 
Originally Posted by WISEPHAROAH

Its like ground hog day when I date this chicks. I already know what there gonna say. Good girls don't care about what their man does. (B.s. you put yourself on a pedestal so you expect him to have bread no matter how loyal and honest he is) The sluts pretending to be good don't want a dude because they are "having fun". The party girls wanna be famous or get self esteem boost(same thing) The rats just wanna get dug out. The educated girls try to front like they independent but in reality they are alone because they are socially inept and too picky. Weaves are in, drinking is the vice weed is for free time and @*** is not a four letter word.
I think you have to understand that everyone has a struggle EVERYONE there is no such thing as a perfect person and you keep talking about black girls who don't have a father okay well what about the girls that do ?

There are many people of different races who don't have a father and go though problems because of it not just black girls

And as for the socially picky that's not every black girl not every girl wants a "baller" because the reality is not everyone is a "baller"

It seriously sounds to me like you was hurt by a black girl if that's case its sad but you can't pin that chicks problems on a whole RACE of people that's just illogical
 
Why is it that the bad seeds make us ALL seem so bad but if a non black woman was to be a lil off no one would assume most women of her kind are like that. You see every now and then but not to the extent that a few bad seeds ruin it for all black women. That's not just on NT either.

Shows like bad girls club are filled with mostly white women every season but you don't see the outrage about white women thinking it's ok to act a fool.

Most can agree that is a certain group of people but not all or even a majority but some how when it comes to black people it's the few represent a majority. It's not just with women either. It happens with black men too.

Pictures get posted all over the net of white girls at college parties in panties and kissing each other cuz their drunk and if those pictures make it here they are met with
pimp.gif
but OP feels that so many black women just party and drink and smoke every weekend. No one does any more of the other I can promise you that. Again those are just a few of the whole where with BW my actions might turn someone off of the whole group when I can only speak for myself and what I do for me ( not talking partying just in general).
 
Originally Posted by My Swag Runz Deep

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by kilojules64

Holy moly, I never even think about race in relation to the guys I meet, NT is like a whole different world or something.

There are so many situations were race is brought up on NT that most normal people do not think about.
  
Normal people? The funniest part is that I am sure Kilojules64 is not black.

NT is a valid place to talk about things that cannot be talked about in a "real-life" setting.

The reason individuals post on subjects as these, is it's kinda hard to discuss the real issue at hand-without emotion getting out of hand. Personally I find it hard to discuss on topics such as these- because honestly alot of my friends have girlfriends that are black, and at the very least have sisters who share the same traits that irk individuals like myself and OP. 


  

I didn't assume jules was black if u thought i did.

I'm not referring to this topic specifically. The sentiments brought up in this thread are very real. In my own experience there are other situations on NT were race is brought up  that would never be in real life.

Maybe its the anonymity?
  
it's not the anonymity.. its more likely the fact that your "normal" life is not other people's "normal" life.

i'll be hanging with one group of friends and race won't even come up. but with other friends, they've grown up to be so race conscious that our conversations always have a racial tinge. no one group of friends is better than the other, they just come from different environments and see life differently.

so consider that not everyone lives in your "race-free" environment, some people are just naturally conditioned to inject race into things because thats what they know.


I grew up in as many diverse environments (Racially and economically) as a human-being possible can. From all white, to all black to mixed....very wealthy to the poor. People have brought up race, just not as much as I've seen it on NT and not in completely unrelated situations. If NT were real life I would have one of these conversations daily, and that simply isn't the case. That's why I brought up anonymity, I guess race is a touchy subject and some may feel uncomfortable bringing it up or simply don't care.

NT is also serves as a constitutive audience for people to vent or voice their opinions or thoughts. I rarely bring up religion in real life unless someone asks. On NT with a click of the mouse anyone can bring it up for those who care to comment.

I guess you're right some people are conditioned to insert racially influences subjectivity into every human-interaction and into making every decision. I was lucky in that the people I surrounded myself with, white and black were not like this.


As far as this thread goes, I think people are misunderstanding what OP is saying to mean he thinks all black women are like that. The type of black women he's referring to are making normal, non-rambunctious, black women look bad.
Can we please stop acting like what  the OP said is okay? Here we have another delusional black man professing his disgust with "black women." Just because you have been exclusively involved with hoodrats doesn't mean all black women are like that. I see a ton of low life black dudes in the hood all the time but I don't go around thinking that these $+!%%+@ black men are a reflection of all black men. Have you ever left the hood OP? I feel sad for you because you are so small-minded and conditioned it's sickening.


LOL I hope none of this was directed at me....I can't stand most women enough to get in a relationship with one, why would I put myself through a relationship with a "hood rat"?
laugh.gif
I made thread about a black woman basically voicing her disdain for black women who act a certain way. Not all black women are like that.


I mean this thread could digress into a discussion between different types of black people (Word to Chris Rock). Within every race of people, there are ignorant and less than desirable human-beings and there are good people. OP is speaking to what he has seen as less desirable.

If OP is saying ALL black women are like this, he is wrong.
 
Why is it that the bad seeds make us ALL seem so bad but if a non black woman was to be a lil off no one would assume most women of her kind are like that. You see every now and then but not to the extent that a few bad seeds ruin it for all black women. That's not just on NT either.

Shows like bad girls club are filled with mostly white women every season but you don't see the outrage about white women thinking it's ok to act a fool.

Most can agree that is a certain group of people but not all or even a majority but some how when it comes to black people it's the few represent a majority. It's not just with women either. It happens with black men too.

Pictures get posted all over the net of white girls at college parties in panties and kissing each other cuz their drunk and if those pictures make it here they are met with
pimp.gif
but OP feels that so many black women just party and drink and smoke every weekend. No one does any more of the other I can promise you that. Again those are just a few of the whole where with BW my actions might turn someone off of the whole group when I can only speak for myself and what I do for me ( not talking partying just in general).
 
Originally Posted by My Swag Runz Deep

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by DT43

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by kilojules64

Holy moly, I never even think about race in relation to the guys I meet, NT is like a whole different world or something.

There are so many situations were race is brought up on NT that most normal people do not think about.
  
Normal people? The funniest part is that I am sure Kilojules64 is not black.

NT is a valid place to talk about things that cannot be talked about in a "real-life" setting.

The reason individuals post on subjects as these, is it's kinda hard to discuss the real issue at hand-without emotion getting out of hand. Personally I find it hard to discuss on topics such as these- because honestly alot of my friends have girlfriends that are black, and at the very least have sisters who share the same traits that irk individuals like myself and OP. 


  

I didn't assume jules was black if u thought i did.

I'm not referring to this topic specifically. The sentiments brought up in this thread are very real. In my own experience there are other situations on NT were race is brought up  that would never be in real life.

Maybe its the anonymity?
  
it's not the anonymity.. its more likely the fact that your "normal" life is not other people's "normal" life.

i'll be hanging with one group of friends and race won't even come up. but with other friends, they've grown up to be so race conscious that our conversations always have a racial tinge. no one group of friends is better than the other, they just come from different environments and see life differently.

so consider that not everyone lives in your "race-free" environment, some people are just naturally conditioned to inject race into things because thats what they know.


I grew up in as many diverse environments (Racially and economically) as a human-being possible can. From all white, to all black to mixed....very wealthy to the poor. People have brought up race, just not as much as I've seen it on NT and not in completely unrelated situations. If NT were real life I would have one of these conversations daily, and that simply isn't the case. That's why I brought up anonymity, I guess race is a touchy subject and some may feel uncomfortable bringing it up or simply don't care.

NT is also serves as a constitutive audience for people to vent or voice their opinions or thoughts. I rarely bring up religion in real life unless someone asks. On NT with a click of the mouse anyone can bring it up for those who care to comment.

I guess you're right some people are conditioned to insert racially influences subjectivity into every human-interaction and into making every decision. I was lucky in that the people I surrounded myself with, white and black were not like this.


As far as this thread goes, I think people are misunderstanding what OP is saying to mean he thinks all black women are like that. The type of black women he's referring to are making normal, non-rambunctious, black women look bad.
Can we please stop acting like what  the OP said is okay? Here we have another delusional black man professing his disgust with "black women." Just because you have been exclusively involved with hoodrats doesn't mean all black women are like that. I see a ton of low life black dudes in the hood all the time but I don't go around thinking that these $+!%%+@ black men are a reflection of all black men. Have you ever left the hood OP? I feel sad for you because you are so small-minded and conditioned it's sickening.


LOL I hope none of this was directed at me....I can't stand most women enough to get in a relationship with one, why would I put myself through a relationship with a "hood rat"?
laugh.gif
I made thread about a black woman basically voicing her disdain for black women who act a certain way. Not all black women are like that.


I mean this thread could digress into a discussion between different types of black people (Word to Chris Rock). Within every race of people, there are ignorant and less than desirable human-beings and there are good people. OP is speaking to what he has seen as less desirable.

If OP is saying ALL black women are like this, he is wrong.
 
Hmm I've been thinking about this as well for a minute now. The drama all the black chicks I've messed with over time is unbearable at times and I could definitely do without all that stress. All females are effed up in the head in some way being that they're emotional creatures, so you're gonna have problems regardless no matter the race, but with black woman It's magnified because so many of them share these very traits op has stated. I don't have a problem with the smoking and drinking, but I swear I feel like every black chick I come in contact with has THAT PAST that makes you go ehhh I'm coo and its largely due to a fatherless home. I will admit that I do agree with op on the fact that most black women have some of the most ridiculous standards that they feel should be met and its crazy because half of the time the women with these high standards are the ones who have been ran thru go figure. At the end of the day I'm open to all races so op do what you do bro I feel where you coming from.
 
Hmm I've been thinking about this as well for a minute now. The drama all the black chicks I've messed with over time is unbearable at times and I could definitely do without all that stress. All females are effed up in the head in some way being that they're emotional creatures, so you're gonna have problems regardless no matter the race, but with black woman It's magnified because so many of them share these very traits op has stated. I don't have a problem with the smoking and drinking, but I swear I feel like every black chick I come in contact with has THAT PAST that makes you go ehhh I'm coo and its largely due to a fatherless home. I will admit that I do agree with op on the fact that most black women have some of the most ridiculous standards that they feel should be met and its crazy because half of the time the women with these high standards are the ones who have been ran thru go figure. At the end of the day I'm open to all races so op do what you do bro I feel where you coming from.
 
Originally Posted by mytmouse76

Why is it that the bad seeds make us ALL seem so bad but if a non black woman was to be a lil off no one would assume most women of her kind are like that. You see every now and then but not to the extent that a few bad seeds ruin it for all black women. That's not just on NT either.

Shows like bad girls club are filled with mostly white women every season but you don't see the outrage about white women thinking it's ok to act a fool.

Most can agree that is a certain group of people but not all or even a majority but some how when it comes to black people it's the few represent a majority. It's not just with women either. It happens with black men too.

Pictures get posted all over the net of white girls at college parties in panties and kissing each other cuz their drunk and if those pictures make it here they are met with
pimp.gif
but OP feels that so many black women just party and drink and smoke every weekend. No one does any more of the other I can promise you that. Again those are just a few of the whole where with BW my actions might turn someone off of the whole group when I can only speak for myself and what I do for me ( not talking partying just in general).

alonzomourningthinks.gif

  
 
Originally Posted by mytmouse76

Why is it that the bad seeds make us ALL seem so bad but if a non black woman was to be a lil off no one would assume most women of her kind are like that. You see every now and then but not to the extent that a few bad seeds ruin it for all black women. That's not just on NT either.

Shows like bad girls club are filled with mostly white women every season but you don't see the outrage about white women thinking it's ok to act a fool.

Most can agree that is a certain group of people but not all or even a majority but some how when it comes to black people it's the few represent a majority. It's not just with women either. It happens with black men too.

Pictures get posted all over the net of white girls at college parties in panties and kissing each other cuz their drunk and if those pictures make it here they are met with
pimp.gif
but OP feels that so many black women just party and drink and smoke every weekend. No one does any more of the other I can promise you that. Again those are just a few of the whole where with BW my actions might turn someone off of the whole group when I can only speak for myself and what I do for me ( not talking partying just in general).

alonzomourningthinks.gif

  
 
Originally Posted by mytmouse76

Why is it that the bad seeds make us ALL seem so bad but if a non black woman was to be a lil off no one would assume most women of her kind are like that. You see every now and then but not to the extent that a few bad seeds ruin it for all black women. That's not just on NT either.

Shows like bad girls club are filled with mostly white women every season but you don't see the outrage about white women thinking it's ok to act a fool.

Most can agree that is a certain group of people but not all or even a majority but some how when it comes to black people it's the few represent a majority. It's not just with women either. It happens with black men too.

Pictures get posted all over the net of white girls at college parties in panties and kissing each other cuz their drunk and if those pictures make it here they are met with
pimp.gif
but OP feels that so many black women just party and drink and smoke every weekend. No one does any more of the other I can promise you that. Again those are just a few of the whole where with BW my actions might turn someone off of the whole group when I can only speak for myself and what I do for me ( not talking partying just in general).
Predictable to say the least. OP asks why he should restore faith in black women, and the response is "white girls suck and are gold diggers just like us"- as if that helps any.

I speak for myself when I say the problem is two-fold. Meaning that Black men ARE to blame just as black woman are. I also-believe with the first post in this thread explain the cylical blame that should be spread out equally amongst the sexes. Naturally, not being a black woman- Cannot see your struggle, let alone fathom half of them. I am just trying to ask why is love so tough? White women love me like a God, yet black women spit on my sneakers and call me names after I take them out to 5 star restaraunts

Like it or not, for a good portion of 300 years black men and women had no choice as to who they would date ya dig? Only in the past half century- have blacks been allowed (in the US) to partake in dating white women. Prior to that they were SOLELY dating black women. Surely anyone could see the social ramifications that would stem from the counter culture.
 
 
Originally Posted by mytmouse76

Why is it that the bad seeds make us ALL seem so bad but if a non black woman was to be a lil off no one would assume most women of her kind are like that. You see every now and then but not to the extent that a few bad seeds ruin it for all black women. That's not just on NT either.

Shows like bad girls club are filled with mostly white women every season but you don't see the outrage about white women thinking it's ok to act a fool.

Most can agree that is a certain group of people but not all or even a majority but some how when it comes to black people it's the few represent a majority. It's not just with women either. It happens with black men too.

Pictures get posted all over the net of white girls at college parties in panties and kissing each other cuz their drunk and if those pictures make it here they are met with
pimp.gif
but OP feels that so many black women just party and drink and smoke every weekend. No one does any more of the other I can promise you that. Again those are just a few of the whole where with BW my actions might turn someone off of the whole group when I can only speak for myself and what I do for me ( not talking partying just in general).
Predictable to say the least. OP asks why he should restore faith in black women, and the response is "white girls suck and are gold diggers just like us"- as if that helps any.

I speak for myself when I say the problem is two-fold. Meaning that Black men ARE to blame just as black woman are. I also-believe with the first post in this thread explain the cylical blame that should be spread out equally amongst the sexes. Naturally, not being a black woman- Cannot see your struggle, let alone fathom half of them. I am just trying to ask why is love so tough? White women love me like a God, yet black women spit on my sneakers and call me names after I take them out to 5 star restaraunts

Like it or not, for a good portion of 300 years black men and women had no choice as to who they would date ya dig? Only in the past half century- have blacks been allowed (in the US) to partake in dating white women. Prior to that they were SOLELY dating black women. Surely anyone could see the social ramifications that would stem from the counter culture.
 
 
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