Official DragonBall Z Thread. R.I.P Akira Toriyama. You will be missed

[g14]

 
Super Sayian Rose

And I don't think this fight will be over anytime soon

Even if they defeat Black in the future

that doesn't stop black in the present

And Black can leap through timelines

right

its going to be a easy win

but watch how  we find out how zamu kidnaps goku or goten or whoever the hell black is

plus i want to see them go to cabba planet already lowkey

be dope if a calm brolly is king of sayians

 

[goldmember]

I don't know how i feel about a pink SSJ ...smh

 

[Chill Bill]

right

its going to be a easy win

but watch how  we find out how zamu kidnaps goku or goten or whoever the hell black is

plus i want to see them go to cabba planet already lowkey

be dope if a calm brolly is king of sayians

Yeah it's gotta be a easy win
Even with Blacks new power up
Hes going to end up like Frieza (Came to Earth after getting a new form and couldn't control it)

I doubt Blacks had enough time to train the new rose form


Zamu has to play a role in this
Why build a character up like that and just leave them
Even though DB has a history of dropping characters into the trash bin

Aka
Launch
Tien
Chotizu
I ain't seen Mr. PoPo in so long

But zamasu gotta do something major

 

[goldmember]

I still feel like future trunks will die in this arc. There's gotta be a closure in his timeline.

 

[Top Boy]

Dude is going to become a Time Keeper or whatever they are in Xenoverse.

The timeline his Earth is in sucks anyways, nothing holding him back.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Also Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu, the reason being is that when he absorbed the first Kai he turned into Super Buu which made him a little weaker and then the second Kai made him Majin Buu, even more weaker. Super Buu only ended the earths population and the Z Fighter's families. When he absorbed Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, and Gohan it made him a little stronger but Kid Buu is the strongest Buu. 

Super Buu is stronger than kid buu. Simple scaling would tell you that. We know for a fact that ssj3 gotenks is stronger than ssj3 goku by a pretty large margin. And we know based on what Vegeta says during the fight between him, kid buu, and ssj3 goku that at full power ssj3 goku (which goku wasn't at) is stronger than kid buu. Now take a look at the fight between super buu and gotenks. Although it wasn't exactly even, super buu and gotenks were far more evenly matched than goku could ever be to gotenks. So using goku as the reference point ssj3 gotenks >= super buu> ssj3 goku> kid buu.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

To say that kid buu is stronger than super buu is to say that super saiyan 3 goku is stronger than super Saiyan 3 gotenks.

 

[goldmember]

Dude is going to become a Time Keeper or whatever they are in Xenoverse.

The timeline his Earth is in sucks anyways, nothing holding him back.

After causing all this trouble..creating new timeline/worlds. I kinda doubt it but I'm down with that

 

[rico x hood]

Why did the King of All say he wanted to meet Goku even though they already met? Was it just poor subs? If they just used the word "again" it'd be completely different.

And how is SSJ3 Gotenks stronger than SSJ3 Goku?

Also Trunks has not progressed at all. Still can only go USSJ, with him having saiyan blood and dealing with all the drama in his present time, one would think the emotional anguish would push him to SSJ2.

And why did Goku think it necessary for Bulma to see Vegeta and Trunks train? The wives up to this point never accompany or seem to care about their husbands training, I thought that was pretty interesting.

at Whis finally being caught the off guard about something. He's usually so cool, calm, and collected.

 

[goldmember]

Trunks can go SSJ2 b. We know that since he spar with Goku

 

[antidope]

The OP of this thread needs a power level chart. Gotenks was stronger than Goku. Goku said so (something to the effect of Gotenks has way more control over ssj3 than he did), and its evident by scaling. Gotenks was on Super Buus level and Goku was not.

You ever notice that the Buu Saga is the only time there's confusion about who's stronger than who? It could have been the best but they really tried to fit too much into too the saga.

Debuted a new Super Saiyan form and no one ever masters it.

Gotenks learns how to control SSJ3 better than Goku. You can say that Goku wasn't used to using it while he was alive like he told Vegeta but Goku was dead for seven years even if we're being conservative and say he only knew how to do it for a year that's still more than enough time for him to not struggle with it but yet the little kid is out there with control.

Fusion ended up becoming a novelty.

Spirit Bomb ending

Gohan not going Super Saiyan when he's getting washed by Buutenks even though they never said he couldn't go super Saiyan anymore just that he wouldn't need to because super Saiyan is "powering up the wrong way" but if he's getting washed and super Saiyan multiplies power why wouldn't he transform?

SSJ3 is a novelty. It's one W ever is the Super Dragon Fist movie.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

And how is SSJ3 Gotenks stronger than SSJ3 Goku?

Back in like 1993 when the buu saga was airing, Toriyama said in an interview that super Saiyan gotenks (referred to as super gotenks) in the interview was a little bit stronger than super Saiyan 3 goku, so it's safe to assume super Saiyan 3 gotenks is stronger than super Saiyan 3 goku. Toriyama did mention that goku is a better fighter though in the same interview but with the gap in power I don't think it would matter to be honest. I don't remember where I read the interview but I'm sure you can google it and it shouldn't be too hard to find. There are tons of goku vs gotenks threads out there.

But even not taking that into consideration you can compare the two by how they do agaianst super buu and kid buu respectively considering the fact that super buu is stronger than kid buu.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Gohan not going Super Saiyan when he's getting washed by Buutenks even though they never said he couldn't go super Saiyan anymore just that he wouldn't need to because super Saiyan is "powering up the wrong way" but if he's getting washed and super Saiyan multiplies power why wouldn't he transform?

Super Saiyan wouldn't have acted as a multiplier in Gohans case. His mystic form brings out Gohans maximum potential and then some. It didn't simply just make his base form stronger. Instead of looking at it as multiplier of his base form think of it as a means to bring you closer to your max power. Super Saiyain only gets you 50% of the way while mystic form gets you 100% of the way.

 

[antidope]

Well I just learned something. Hold this rep.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Well I just learned something. Hold this rep.

Thanks for the rep

Yeah a lot of people don't consider gohans mystic form a transformation because it doesn't look any different but I think otherwise. And even if he did goku super Saiyan and mystic at the same time he wouldn't benefit from a boost because he's already at max power, all that would happen is that his ki would drain his ki faster.

 

[Top Boy]

This is why Gohan is such a disappointment.

Young prince had the capacity to become the greatest of fighters, he was leading the Z-Fighter pack

Just for him to end up some washed up jabroni

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

This is why Gohan is such a disappointment.

Young prince had the capacity to become the greatest of fighters, he was leading the Z-Fighter pack

Just for him to end up some washed up jabroni

It still doesn't even make sense how Gohan was able to fall off so much. Like I don't think Toriyama realizes how strong they made him in the buu saga

 

[The Fresh Prince]

Super Buu is stronger than kid buu. Simple scaling would tell you that. We know for a fact that ssj3 gotenks is stronger than ssj3 goku by a pretty large margin. And we know based on what Vegeta says during the fight between him, kid buu, and ssj3 goku that at full power ssj3 goku (which goku wasn't at) is stronger than kid buu. Now take a look at the fight between super buu and gotenks. Although it wasn't exactly even, super buu and gotenks were far more evenly matched than goku could ever be to gotenks. So using goku as the reference point ssj3 gotenks >= super buu> ssj3 goku> kid buu.

First, you can't apply logic to DBZ. Let me give you some examples:

1. Power Levels are irrelevant (Toriyama said this)

2. There are always contradictions to the lore

3. What the Toriyama acknowledges is fact

Also Kid Buu was playing with all of them, if he wasn't he would have blown up the World of the Kais like he did Earth and those other planets. Also I posted an article where Toriyama basically acknowledges Kid Buu as the strongest Buu. If it comes from the creator then it's fact.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

 
First, you can't apply logic to DBZ. Let me give you some examples:

1. Power Levels are irrelevant (Toriyama said this)

2. There are always contradictions to the lore

3. What the Toriyama acknowledges is fact

Also Kid Buu was playing with all of them, if he wasn't he would have blown up the World of the Kais like he did Earth and those other planets. Also I posted an article where Toriyama basically acknowledges Kid Buu as the strongest Buu. If it comes from the creator then it's fact.

Back in like 1993 when the buu saga was airing, Toriyama said in an interview that super Saiyan gotenks (referred to as super gotenks) in the interview was a little bit stronger than super Saiyan 3 goku, so it's safe to assume super Saiyan 3 gotenks is stronger than super Saiyan 3 goku. Toriyama did mention that goku is a better fighter though in the same interview but with the gap in power I don't think it would matter to be honest. I don't remember where I read the interview but I'm sure you can google it and it shouldn't be too hard to find. There are tons of goku vs gotenks threads out there.

But even not taking that into consideration you can compare the two by how they do agaianst super buu and kid buu respectively considering the fact that super buu is stronger than kid buu.

 

[The Fresh Prince]

 

 

 

[tyree do great]

Kid Buu Vs Super Buu Discussion Has Returned [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

 

Akira Toriyama Interview by Nirazaki Tihashiberi 

Super Otaku Magazine Issue #297 

Toriyama-san has agreed to answer some questions for us today. Much thanks to Toriyama-san after the craze on the Majin Buu period. (Do note that this was not a cover story, and thus, short). 

Nirazaki: Many fans have given positive feedback over the Majin Buu period. The inclusion of fusion was an unexpected twist. What gave you the idea? 

Toriyama-san: Well in order to have a villain with so much strength, you need someone around that can rival him. Majin Buu is incredibly strong. Its not easy to create a character that can keep up. So I thought of making the characters fuse to create new characters without taking the focus off the main characters. 

Nirazaki: There have been many changes since the Saiya-jins came to earth. Do you ever think about the progress? 

Toriyama-san: Yes I do. Doragonboru has come a long way. They went from running at super speed to moving at the speed of light! (Laughs) 

Nirazaki: There was uproar over the rematch between Son Goku and Bejita. Were you planning this the entire time? 

Toriyama-san: (Laughs) It was more of a crowd pleaser. Son Gokuu and Bejita didnt have the opportunity to fight in the Seru period, and with a new saga to start with, it would not be hard to work in that kind of battle. 

Nirazaki: Youve been telling everyone how this is the end. Will Doragonboru really end after Majin Buu? 

Toriyama-san: Yes. Ive put so much time on Doragonboru I cant do much else. I never expected Doragonboru to be this long in the first place. I think its been concluded on a high note. After all, if I had my way, Id of ended the manga after the Freeza period! (Laughs) 

Nirazaki: You like to laugh about this a lot. Will parting with Doragonboru be difficult? 

Toriyama-san: On one side, Im relieved. On the other side, its like seeing a child move away. 

Nirazaki: I know that a lot of people want to hear more about fusion. With Gotenkusu now in the story, will he play that big of a role? And most of all, is he stronger than Son Goku himself? 

Toriyama-san: Well I dont know yet. Ive planned some things with Gotenkusu, but he wont be the focus of the entire saga. Youll see as things develop. As for their strength, Gotenkusu is a little bit stronger, but you wouldnt notice a difference. Still, Son Goku will always be the most skilled martial artist! (Smiles) But Gotenkusu will not be the only person to go higher than son Goku. 

Nirazaki: What does that last part mean? 

Toriyama-san: Youll find out. 

Nirazaki: Ill remember that! One last question. 

Toriyama-san: Make it good, you wont get a second chance! Kidding, Ill see you again. 

Nirazaki: Is Son Goku dead forever? He has come back before, but it looks like hes out of lives. 

Toriyama-san: I dont want to shift the focus, so I have to keep certain things close to their roots. Son Goku will have his day, but right now its up to "Super Gotenkusu!".

keep in mind that this interview was pre ROSAT gotenks when he got beat by fat buu. meaning this was before they achieved super saiyan 3. 

this is why gotenks > goku. and if gotenks > goku then super buu HAS TO BE stronger than kid buu. point blank period.

if youre saying kid buu is the strongest then you have to say that goku is stronger than both gotenks and super buu. which is flat out false

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Kid Buu Vs Super Buu Discussion Has Returned [emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji]

it never fails 

 

[The Fresh Prince]

 
keep in mind that this interview was pre ROSAT gotenks when he got beat by fat buu. meaning this was before they achieved super saiyan 3. 

this is why gotenks > goku. and if gotenks > goku then super buu HAS TO BE stronger than kid buu. point blank period.

if youre saying kid buu is the strongest then you have to say that goku is stronger than both gotenks and super buu. which is flat out false

POWER LEVELS ARE IRRELEVANT. Almost every character surpassed Goku before (Vegeta and Gohan) but you see who always ends up coming back to that spot.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

 
POWER LEVELS ARE IRRELEVANT. Almost character surpassed Goku before (Vegeta and Gohan) but you see who always ends up coming back to that spot.

this has absolutely zero to do with what we are talking about. we dont need power levels or numbers to determine whos stronger or whos weaker. were talking strength rankings here. and it doesnt matter how anyone feels about power levels. toriyama, anime, and manga give us more than enough info to rank a majority of the characters in the buu saga. ignoring that is your choice. but using gotenks as the base line more than demolishes the argument that kid buu is stronger than super buu. hes not. point blank period. your logic would dictate that goku is stronger than vegito because "you see who always end up coming back to that spot"