Official DragonBall Z Thread. R.I.P Akira Toriyama. You will be missed

[suberzat1]

 

 
I thought Vegeta was stronger because of his prince blood but Goku trains harder

not really. goku and vegeta both have their strengths and weaknesses and are "geniuses" in their own rights, but they average out to about the same level in my opinion.

as for who trains harder? that completely subjective. goku and vegeta both train relentlessly. 

Like freezer Vegeta didn't have to train as much because of the strength advantage  he was born with. As to why Freezer said he never had to train in life and only need to train for a month or two to reach Goku power level

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

 
Like freezer Vegeta didn't have to train as much because of the strength advantage  he was born with. As to why Freezer said he never had to train in life and only need to train for a month or two to reach Goku power level

where does does it say that vegeta didnt need to train? vegeta was stronger than goku in base form in the saiyain saga but after that neither of them have stopped training. even up until this point in super

 

[Barbados Slim]

 
Like freezer Vegeta didn't have to train as much because of the strength advantage  he was born with. As to why Freezer said he never had to train in life and only need to train for a month or two to reach Goku power level

I don't think this is true at all. Vegeta might not have done the same type of training as Goku before they met, but he has been fighting and getting stronger his entire life.

 

[abematic]

Goku only is superior due to his training with the Kais. If Vegeta were to have thr same training experiences, they both would be evenly matched, maybe. They both have a huge amount of sheer determination.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Goku only is superior due to his training with the Kais. If Vegeta were to have thr same training experiences, they both would be evenly matched, maybe. They both have a huge amount of sheer determination.

training with whis caught vegeta up just fine

 

[everysingletime]

Can't wait to see what you guys say when Goku does better against Black

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Can't wait to see what you guys say when Goku does better against Black

i dont even know what there is to debate. the only claim people have made is that right now in the current point in the story  goku and vegeta are on the same level because recent and current events point to that. absolutely no one is speaking in absolute terms except for you. if goku grows stronger in this fight or as a result of this fight then hes stronger. same goes for vegeta. but if they perform the same or fight black 2 on 1. then im going to base my opinion on that. its about staying current, no making absolute generalizations.

 

[zs05wc]

I was disappointed with the training between Vegeta and Trunks. Unless they did some training that we didn't see Vegeta just gave him a beat down and that was that. There a shot of them both doing the Galick Gun pose so maybe they did some training? It doesn't seem like Trunks did anything to get stronger with this visit to the past.

 

[abematic]

training with whis caught vegeta up just fine

which is true.

Goku has the Kaioken, that still put Goku over Vegeta. Vegeta needs his tail back hahahaha

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

which is true.

Goku has the Kaioken, that still put Goku over Vegeta. Vegeta needs his tail back hahahaha

Without going into the whole thing about why I think goku and vegetas are an even playing. Kaioken right now as it is 10% trump card and 90% instant death and requires a rediculous amount of focus and concentration to use. Until goku finds a way to master it or at least minimize the risks at best goku has a 10% chance of being stronger than vegeta if kaioken is all that separates them.

 

[abematic]

That is a good debate but as far as the DBS story is concern, highly doubt Kaioken will kill him. I can be positive that he will master Kaioken under Blue and that will seperate himself from Vegeta. Vegeta has no other forms to seperate himself from what is already common between he and Goku.

 

[KingParappa]

So cool

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

That is a good debate but as far as the DBS story is concern, highly doubt Kaioken will kill him. I can be positive that he will master Kaioken under Blue and that will seperate himself from Vegeta. Vegeta has no other forms to seperate himself from what is already common between he and Goku.

And if that happens then sure. But it hasn't happened yet. Goku says it himself that it had a 10% chance of working and a 90% of killing him. He got lucky the first time against hit but at 10% the odds still aren't in his favor. When/if goku masters the technique (and I say technique because that's what it is, not a transformation) I'll give it to him 100%.

 

[everysingletime]

which is true.

Goku has the Kaioken, that still put Goku over Vegeta. Vegeta needs his tail back hahahaha

Without going into the whole thing about why I think goku and vegetas are an even playing. Kaioken right now as it is 10% trump card and 90% instant death and requires a rediculous amount of focus and concentration to use. Until goku finds a way to master it or at least minimize the risks at best goku has a 10% chance of being stronger than vegeta if kaioken is all that separates them.

What's the point of declaring that Vegeta caught up (supposedly) if it's only for a millisecond?

 

[goldmember]

Kaioken and IT always puts Goku over Vegeta IMO.

But can we talk about something else?

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

What's the point of declaring that Vegeta caught up (supposedly) if it's only for a millisecond?

You're the one reading the dbz stars and telling the future here I only speak on what I see currently happening. I've got no problems with goku becoming stronger in the next episodes

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Kaioken and IT always puts Goku over Vegeta IMO.

But can we talk about something else?

All about perspective I guess. I don't think krillin is as strong as his districto disc, I don't think tien is as strong as his tri beam. Heck piccolo couldn't take Raditz 1 on 1 but his special beam cannon was strong enough to kill both goku and Raditz at once. I just don't see the difference between those techniques and the kaioken. All of those attacks ignore what the users actual strength limits and supersedes them.


But enough beating the dead horse lol

 

[bigego24]

What's the point of declaring that Vegeta caught up (supposedly) if it's only for a millisecond?

It matters. Especially to Vegeta fans which it seems quite apparent you are not...View media item 2142357Seriously though did Super take a page from Naruto to semi-even out the playing field with the two main characters?(while rendering virtually everyone else useless)

 

[everysingletime]

Oh, don't get me wrong. I love Vegeta. DBZ would not have been the same without him.

I just know that he will always be number 2. Even he knows it. His whole obsession with training is so he catches up with Goku or making sure Goku doesn't leave him in the dust.

 

[abematic]

All those techniques were like energy balls or blast or cuttery kis.

But the thing is with Kaioken, it actually sticks with you for as long as you have stamina for it. Lets say it is a huge surge of energy that can be sustained as long as the user have enough stamina to posses the "form". Almost a Kamikaze type of move.

But good convo lol i enjoyed it

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

All those techniques were like energy balls or blast or cuttery kis.

But the thing is with Kaioken, it actually sticks with you for as long as you have stamina for it. Lets say it is a huge surge of energy that can be sustained as long as the user have enough stamina to posses the "form". Almost a Kamikaze type of move.

But good convo lol i enjoyed it

Execution maybe different But everything you used to describe the kaioken can be used to describe those other attacks. All those attacks are surges of energy dependent on stamina, just like the kaioken. No one would say tien is stronger than let's say first form cell or the androids because of the tri beam right?

 

[jays25]

All those techniques were like energy balls or blast or cuttery kis.

But the thing is with Kaioken, it actually sticks with you for as long as you have stamina for it. Lets say it is a huge surge of energy that can be sustained as long as the user have enough stamina to posses the "form". Almost a Kamikaze type of move.

But good convo lol i enjoyed it

Actually it doesn't even stick with you for that long. Goku himself describes it as something that lasts for the span of a heartbeat. You see during the battle with Vegeta, and to some extent with he faces both Captain Ginyu and Frieza, that he's only able to use it for brief bursts, after which he has to continually activate it again. The user can continue to activate it, with more and more strain being placed on the body as he does so. The strain on the body is why it was eventually phased out of Goku's arsenal once the Super Saiyan forms presented itself.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

i think the difference i have with alot of people is they look at kaioken in the same way that they look at transformations like the super saiyan forms and i dont. kaioken even translates into "Fist of the King of Worlds" which i think emphasizes that its a technique and not a transformation or form. transformations allow characters to tap into greater portions of their OWN power and potential. the kaioken boost isnt tapping in to anyones potential. it forcibly amplifies a user's ki to a point theyre not capable of on their own and completely ignores potential or what the bodies capable of.

 

[abematic]

I see your point.

 

[antidope]

Goku has gotten trained by Gods three times, twice while he was dead and had no stamina issues. Vegeta is just now getting this kind of love.