DeadsetAce
Supporter
- May 31, 2004
- 107,493
- 53,680
Official MLB Offseason Post: Michael Young asks for a trade.
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by proshares,
- Start date
- Sep 27, 2007
- 20,619
- 1,615
Garza is pretty good, but he is a head case. He certainly has talent and could flourish in the NL
- Sep 27, 2007
- 20,619
- 1,615
Garza is pretty good, but he is a head case. He certainly has talent and could flourish in the NL
lightweight champion
Banned
- Jun 23, 2007
- 13,481
- 5,271
Agreed on all points. Out here in the Bay Damon Bruce chimed in and said, "If a guy gets elected into the HOF with a 90% or better, and you're one of the 10% that didn't vote for him your HOF ballot should be revoked...So, to the guy(s) that said no to Willie Mays or Nolan Ryan your ballot should be revoked!"
lightweight champion
Banned
- Jun 23, 2007
- 13,481
- 5,271
Agreed on all points. Out here in the Bay Damon Bruce chimed in and said, "If a guy gets elected into the HOF with a 90% or better, and you're one of the 10% that didn't vote for him your HOF ballot should be revoked...So, to the guy(s) that said no to Willie Mays or Nolan Ryan your ballot should be revoked!"
That's another thing, it's going to be VERY interesting to say the least when a player like Greg Maddux appears on the ballot. If he's not getting 100% it'll create a lot of controversey.
Another interesting case is Bernie Williams. As much as you all hate it and as much as it should not be taken into consideration in the voting process, that Yankee aura/mold/era he played in is going to play a big part.
Another interesting case is Bernie Williams. As much as you all hate it and as much as it should not be taken into consideration in the voting process, that Yankee aura/mold/era he played in is going to play a big part.
That's another thing, it's going to be VERY interesting to say the least when a player like Greg Maddux appears on the ballot. If he's not getting 100% it'll create a lot of controversey.
Another interesting case is Bernie Williams. As much as you all hate it and as much as it should not be taken into consideration in the voting process, that Yankee aura/mold/era he played in is going to play a big part.
Another interesting case is Bernie Williams. As much as you all hate it and as much as it should not be taken into consideration in the voting process, that Yankee aura/mold/era he played in is going to play a big part.
- Nov 14, 2007
- 8,956
- 39
It's too bad we can't see the voting become public so we could make fun of the %+$*+!%* who don't for guys who should be 100%
And ehh Garza. I don't see him getting much better then what we have seen.
And ehh Garza. I don't see him getting much better then what we have seen.
- Nov 14, 2007
- 8,956
- 39
It's too bad we can't see the voting become public so we could make fun of the %+$*+!%* who don't for guys who should be 100%
And ehh Garza. I don't see him getting much better then what we have seen.
And ehh Garza. I don't see him getting much better then what we have seen.
- Apr 4, 2008
- 75,038
- 24,439
Bernie won't get in right away, but eventually he'll be there. As should Pettite, regardless of the Mitchell Report.
- Apr 4, 2008
- 75,038
- 24,439
Bernie won't get in right away, but eventually he'll be there. As should Pettite, regardless of the Mitchell Report.
The parameters of the deal that ESPNChicago.com's Bruce Levine reported has Matt Garza headed to the Cubs in exchange for pitcher Chris Archer, outfielder Brandon Guyer, catcher Robinson Chirinos, shortstop Hak-Ju Lee and outfielder Sam Fuld. Minor league outfielder Fernando Perez will also head to Chicago with Garza.
http:///sports.espn.go.com/espn/gallery/enlargePhoto?id=5999106&story=5999067">http://sports.espn.go.com...999106&...idth=440,height=750,scrollbars=no,noresize'); return false;" href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?name=law_keith&id=5999067#">[+] Enlarge
Kim Klement/US PresswireGarza is a prize, and the Cubs paid like it.
Immediate reaction: Starting with the prospects, I love this trade for Tampa Bay. They got more for Garza than Kansas City did for Zack Greinke, although their package of players is, collectively, further away than what the Royals got. It looks to me like the Rays focused less on position and more on overall value.
Hak-Ju is the star of the deal for the Rays, a potential monster at shortstop who can run and throw and shows good feel for the strike zone. He performed very well as a 19-year-old in full-season ball and should remain at shortstop long-term because of his athleticism and feel for the position. He's a potential four-tool player who will probably top out with just average power; even though he should be fairly big for a shortstop by the time he fills out, it's not a swing path that's going to generate a lot of long fly balls, but he should hit for average and get on base while adding value through baserunning and defense. He was the No. 1 prospect in the Cubs' system for me.
Archer was originally in the Cleveland system and went to the Cubs in the Mark Derosa trade; at the time, he was all arm strength with little command, but has made huge strides in that area. He'll pitch at 93-95 MPH and despite a high slot, he throws an above-average slider that has missed bats in the minor leagues. His changeup remains a fringe-average pitch but there's enough there to think he'll stick as a three-pitch starter, with the absolute worst case scenario of an impact reliever if for some reason the command stops improving.
The remaining players are all interesting pieces, none good enough to headline a deal but all worthwhile as extra parts.
Brandon Guyer is a plus runner and defender in centerfield with good bat-to-ball skills but poor plate discipline; he mashed as a 24-year-old repeating Double-A, so he may be overrated on performance, but the tools are there for him to at least be a second-division regular because of the glove and speed.
Chirinos is a recent convert to catching -- 2010 was the first year he played nowhere but behind the dish -- and projects to stay behind the plate; his offense the last two years has been inflated by his age relative to league, but the standard at catcher is so low that it seems hard to believe he can't be a starter for someone in the majors. Sam Fuld is a fourth/fifth outfielder who is never going to hit like he did in 2009 again, but has value on the bench and as a late-game OBP weapon against a right-handed reliever.
For the Cubs, it's pretty clear the trade makes the team better. Garza isn't an ace, but he has ace stuff, and taking him for the AL East -- he's notoriously been a Boston killer -- and plugging him into the weaker NL Central should improve his numbers across the board. I've seen him hit 97 in the 7th inning, and seeing the NL-version of 8-9 hitters won't lessen his chances to go deep into games. The Cubs rotation becomes really heavy on right-handed power stuff, and is better set to compete with the other starting staffs in the division, with the perpetual mystery of Carlos Zambrano always a huge piece of that equation. But at least now, any implosion from Big Z won't completely compromise the season.
The other positive here is the chance for the Cubs to let young Andrew Cashner work out of the bullpen. If Cashner is in the pen, they could have a pretty unbelievable group of power arms, and could have a lot of six-inning games.
Cubs fans will enjoy what Garza can offer, but this came at a huge cost.
The other big winner here is the Music Man, Jeremy Hellickson, who now seems guaranteed a spot in the Tampa rotation. Once there, he could contend for Rookie of the Year, so don't weep for the Rays.
The parameters of the deal that ESPNChicago.com's Bruce Levine reported has Matt Garza headed to the Cubs in exchange for pitcher Chris Archer, outfielder Brandon Guyer, catcher Robinson Chirinos, shortstop Hak-Ju Lee and outfielder Sam Fuld. Minor league outfielder Fernando Perez will also head to Chicago with Garza.
http:///sports.espn.go.com/espn/gallery/enlargePhoto?id=5999106&story=5999067">http://sports.espn.go.com...999106&...idth=440,height=750,scrollbars=no,noresize'); return false;" href="http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog?name=law_keith&id=5999067#">[+] Enlarge
Kim Klement/US PresswireGarza is a prize, and the Cubs paid like it.
Immediate reaction: Starting with the prospects, I love this trade for Tampa Bay. They got more for Garza than Kansas City did for Zack Greinke, although their package of players is, collectively, further away than what the Royals got. It looks to me like the Rays focused less on position and more on overall value.
Hak-Ju is the star of the deal for the Rays, a potential monster at shortstop who can run and throw and shows good feel for the strike zone. He performed very well as a 19-year-old in full-season ball and should remain at shortstop long-term because of his athleticism and feel for the position. He's a potential four-tool player who will probably top out with just average power; even though he should be fairly big for a shortstop by the time he fills out, it's not a swing path that's going to generate a lot of long fly balls, but he should hit for average and get on base while adding value through baserunning and defense. He was the No. 1 prospect in the Cubs' system for me.
Archer was originally in the Cleveland system and went to the Cubs in the Mark Derosa trade; at the time, he was all arm strength with little command, but has made huge strides in that area. He'll pitch at 93-95 MPH and despite a high slot, he throws an above-average slider that has missed bats in the minor leagues. His changeup remains a fringe-average pitch but there's enough there to think he'll stick as a three-pitch starter, with the absolute worst case scenario of an impact reliever if for some reason the command stops improving.
The remaining players are all interesting pieces, none good enough to headline a deal but all worthwhile as extra parts.
Brandon Guyer is a plus runner and defender in centerfield with good bat-to-ball skills but poor plate discipline; he mashed as a 24-year-old repeating Double-A, so he may be overrated on performance, but the tools are there for him to at least be a second-division regular because of the glove and speed.
Chirinos is a recent convert to catching -- 2010 was the first year he played nowhere but behind the dish -- and projects to stay behind the plate; his offense the last two years has been inflated by his age relative to league, but the standard at catcher is so low that it seems hard to believe he can't be a starter for someone in the majors. Sam Fuld is a fourth/fifth outfielder who is never going to hit like he did in 2009 again, but has value on the bench and as a late-game OBP weapon against a right-handed reliever.
For the Cubs, it's pretty clear the trade makes the team better. Garza isn't an ace, but he has ace stuff, and taking him for the AL East -- he's notoriously been a Boston killer -- and plugging him into the weaker NL Central should improve his numbers across the board. I've seen him hit 97 in the 7th inning, and seeing the NL-version of 8-9 hitters won't lessen his chances to go deep into games. The Cubs rotation becomes really heavy on right-handed power stuff, and is better set to compete with the other starting staffs in the division, with the perpetual mystery of Carlos Zambrano always a huge piece of that equation. But at least now, any implosion from Big Z won't completely compromise the season.
The other positive here is the chance for the Cubs to let young Andrew Cashner work out of the bullpen. If Cashner is in the pen, they could have a pretty unbelievable group of power arms, and could have a lot of six-inning games.
Cubs fans will enjoy what Garza can offer, but this came at a huge cost.
The other big winner here is the Music Man, Jeremy Hellickson, who now seems guaranteed a spot in the Tampa rotation. Once there, he could contend for Rookie of the Year, so don't weep for the Rays.
- Mar 13, 2004
- 21,151
- 37
GREAT points Proshares....
I just think that with as many baseball purists that are out there and in some sort of control over the HOF voting process, these roid users will have an increasingly difficult time of getting enshrined. All this does is make the case for guys like Jim Thome all the more acceptable because he played the game clean. 11% of the HOF vote is staggering. If Raffy wasn't busted, he'd be a no-brainer. Tony LaRussa is doing all that he can to help out Big Mac by having him on as a coach and maybe...just maybe, easing him back into the public eye will do some good for his image. I think the damage has been done and these guys will not be getting the call for Cooperstown.
- Mar 13, 2004
- 21,151
- 37
GREAT points Proshares....
I just think that with as many baseball purists that are out there and in some sort of control over the HOF voting process, these roid users will have an increasingly difficult time of getting enshrined. All this does is make the case for guys like Jim Thome all the more acceptable because he played the game clean. 11% of the HOF vote is staggering. If Raffy wasn't busted, he'd be a no-brainer. Tony LaRussa is doing all that he can to help out Big Mac by having him on as a coach and maybe...just maybe, easing him back into the public eye will do some good for his image. I think the damage has been done and these guys will not be getting the call for Cooperstown.
^
Tread lightly......I haven't done this in many moons, but Sosa should go before Mark any day. Mark did one thing well his whole career. Nothing else.
Sammy for almost a decade was pretty solid in various departments. I'm rusty, but I can get into this if you make one more statement like that.
Tread lightly......I haven't done this in many moons, but Sosa should go before Mark any day. Mark did one thing well his whole career. Nothing else.
Sammy for almost a decade was pretty solid in various departments. I'm rusty, but I can get into this if you make one more statement like that.
^
Tread lightly......I haven't done this in many moons, but Sosa should go before Mark any day. Mark did one thing well his whole career. Nothing else.
Sammy for almost a decade was pretty solid in various departments. I'm rusty, but I can get into this if you make one more statement like that.
Tread lightly......I haven't done this in many moons, but Sosa should go before Mark any day. Mark did one thing well his whole career. Nothing else.
Sammy for almost a decade was pretty solid in various departments. I'm rusty, but I can get into this if you make one more statement like that.
- Apr 4, 2008
- 75,038
- 24,439
Sheff was a ****, so I'm sure a lot of voters will screw him over out of spite, and you know what, McGwire should be in there. The guy made baseball popular again with his chase and for that alone he should be rewarded (although you could say the same for Sammy, I just never liked the dude
).
- Apr 4, 2008
- 75,038
- 24,439
Sheff was a ****, so I'm sure a lot of voters will screw him over out of spite, and you know what, McGwire should be in there. The guy made baseball popular again with his chase and for that alone he should be rewarded (although you could say the same for Sammy, I just never liked the dude
).
