Official NBA 2012-2013 Season Thread

[JJ Goon]

Who yall voted for in the All Star game?

 

[dt43]

^he's a number one overall pick. i expect guys drafted that high to be great/all-everything, not just good. he's not a mid first rounder like jrue or ty (who are all solid), wall needs to be better than them. so, if he ends up like raymond felton (decent), that is okay? especially for being picked that high?

Felton? Not even gonna respond to that.

By "good" I meant very good, as in All-Star and top 5ish at his position.. that's what you want from a #1 pick. He could end up being the best PG in the league, if he puts the work in. But IMO his floor is All-Star level within ~2 years, no question.

 

[dt43]

dbl

 

[antidope]

Yeah ok. You're a cool guy but chill with this nonsense

He does suck though

You dudes are ridiculous on here. Ya'll try too hard. He sucks? Say he hasn't lived to the hype...sure. But sucks? That's just ******ed and you know it's ******ed.

He does suck. He is terrible. Did you really say his numbers are aligned with most PGs in their second year? Most PGs lead the league in turnovers since their inception into the league? Most PGs shoot the leagues worst FG% from outside the paint?http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...effective-field-goal-percentage-john-wall-nba. Most PGs are number one overall picks who have failed to elevate their team by any measure since playing? I feel bad for most PGs then I didnt know they were all struggling this bad.

But hey he shook a guy, lets just give him MVP right now.
Why is Perkins slapping him so hard?

^he's a number one overall pick. i expect guys drafted that high to be great/all-everything, not just good. he's not a mid first rounder like jrue or ty (who are all solid), wall needs to be better than them. so, if he ends up like raymond felton (decent), that is okay? especially for being picked that high?

Thank you.

Then how could you think a penetrating, pass-first guard averaging 8apg on a crappy team is not making his teammates better? If I'm not mistaken, the Wizards had no one shooting above 41% last year and he averaged 8apg, think about that.

I understand why some people are down on him though.. he is still very raw in many areas. Maybe I'm more optimistic because I have to be, as a Wiz fan. But I think his jumpshot is really the main knock on him, his athleticism and instincts (offensively and defensively) are too great for him not to be an impact player in this league. Maybe not the best PG in the league, but he will be good.

If he doesn't show improvement by the end of this season I'll start to worry.

THANK YOU.

Wall is a product of his environment. Nothing more, nothing less. Like you said...I can see why people are down on him, but he's not nearly as bad as dudes like Zyzzle and Antidope say.

If he can stay healthy for the rest of the year (with the rest of the team), let's revisit opinions on him. The team right now, which isn't saying a lot, is MUCH better b-ball IQ wise than anything Wall has had since he was drafted in the NBA.

*Another thing...you want to talk about being a product of the environment (Zyzzle)...how about your boy Deron Williams when he came to New Jersey? He had a BUM team and was a shell of what he looked like in Utah. Same scenario as Wall. You're only as good as the players around you.

Wall is a number 1 overall pick. These players are not simply products of their enviroment, they are the players that are supposed to change their environment almost single handedly, elevate their team to the next level by not only playing great, but by making their teammates better, ESPECIALLY a PG. He has done neither of those things. But we will see, like I siad in the PG thread, let this be the last year that the John Wall hype train rides with no steam.

 

[CP1708]

So then Anti, you think Blake Griffin sucks too then?

Cuz he wouldn't change the Clippers for ****, it was Paul that did that for them. Otherwise he'd be getting good numbers on a 20 win team, ala Wall on the Wizards. Right?

Your argument is flawed until Wall has some people around him in Washington, saying he sucks at this point is just plain lazy and stupid.

 

[jjs07]

He does suck. He is terrible. Did you really say his numbers are aligned with most PGs in their second year? Most PGs lead the league in turnovers since their inception into the league? Most PGs shoot the leagues worst FG% from outside the paint?http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...effective-field-goal-percentage-john-wall-nba. Most PGs are number one overall picks who have failed to elevate their team by any measure since playing? I feel bad for most PGs then I didnt know they were all struggling this bad.

But hey he shook a guy, lets just give him MVP right now.
Why is Perkins slapping him so hard?
Thank you.
Wall is a number 1 overall pick. These players are not simply products of their enviroment, they are the players that are supposed to change their environment almost single handedly, elevate their team to the next level by not only playing great, but by making their teammates better, ESPECIALLY a PG. He has done neither of those things. But we will see, like I siad in the PG thread, let this be the last year that the John Wall hype train rides with no steam.

Wall, was arguably in the worst environment of ANY PG in the NBA over the past 2 1/2 years. I seriously challenge you to find a more dysfunctional unit than what the Wizards had around him in his tenure thus far.

Everyone agrees that there are things he needs to work on. However, I'm more than willing to give him a pass for his "lack" of development due to how the roster has been constructed.

I brought up Deron Williams, and I'd love to get your insight. EVERYTHING you said can be applied to Deron Williams in his time with New Jersey. EVERYTHING. However, I sense an extreme double-standard (from folks on NT) who overlook the crap team he was playing with and also failing to notice his regression from the time he came over from Utah. Somehow, Wall is held to a higher standard. Why, I just don't know?

As VP pointed out, Wall is actually similar to other PGs (statistically) in their first two years in the league. He just doesn't have the wins to show for it. This is NOT on Wall. I'm sorry. I doubt any other PG (except for maybe CP or Rondo) could have made lemonade from the lemons on the roster in DC before this year. Now that everyone is getting healthier, lets see what happens from here on out.

*Just curious...how many Wizards games have you actually watched?

So then Anti, you think Blake Griffin sucks too then?

Cuz he wouldn't change the Clippers for ****, it was Paul that did that for them. Otherwise he'd be getting good numbers on a 20 win team, ala Wall on the Wizards. Right?

Your argument is flawed until Wall has some people around him in Washington, saying he sucks at this point is just plain lazy and stupid.

Thank you!

 

[antidope]

So then Anti, you think Blake Griffin sucks too then?

Cuz he wouldn't change the Clippers for ****, it was Paul that did that for them. Otherwise he'd be getting good numbers on a 20 win team, ala Wall on the Wizards. Right?

Your argument is flawed until Wall has some people around him in Washington, saying he sucks at this point is just plain lazy and stupid.

My thoughts on Blake Griffin are somewhat similar. He doesnt suck, but he is wildly over rated by the masses and not the best PG in the league or a superstar level talent. With that being said I do not think my argument with Wall is flawed. Being on a bad team is not the reason he makes dozens of passes into traffic, being on a bad team is not the reason why he is the worst shooter in the league, being on a bad team is not the reason why he constantly drives into the paint with no direction and ends up making a terrible basketball play. The team has been good enough where he could have curbed these things in year two, but yet it just got worse. Continuing to say he will turn it around or hes still a good player etc etc is lazy when he has given you guys no evidence to believe so.

 

[jjs07]

My thoughts on Blake Griffin are somewhat similar. He doesnt suck, but he is wildly over rated by the masses and not the best PG in the league or a superstar level talent. With that being said I do not think my argument with Wall is flawed. Being on a bad team is not the reason he makes dozens of passes into traffic, being on a bad team is not the reason why he is the worst shooter in the league, being on a bad team is not the reason why he constantly drives into the paint with no direction and ends up making a terrible basketball play. The team has been good enough where he could have curbed these things in year two, but yet it just got worse. Continuing to say he will turn it around or hes still a good player etc etc is lazy when he has given you guys no evidence to believe so.

Being on a bad team with awful players is forcing him to play outside of his game. Aka, DOING TOO MUCH.

Also, I have NO clue what you're talking about when you say:

The team has been good enough where he could have curbed these things in year two, but yet it just got worse.

Makes me wonder how much Wizards basketball you're REALLY watching. This team has been nowhere good enough (nor the environment) for any young player to thrive. There are problems from the front office down to the players on the team. It's dysfunctional beyond belief. As an example, this is the same franchise that made Javale McGee come out of pocket for a big man coach. Think about that. It goes on and on.

Again...if everyone can stay relatively healthy, let's revisit this debate at the end of the season.

 

[tyonenine]

Looking at John walls stats (last year of course): 16 ppg 8apg 4.5 rpg 1 bpg 1spg. Looks good to me. Only flaw is his turnovers.

 

[CP1708]

So then Anti, you think Blake Griffin sucks too then?


Cuz he wouldn't change the Clippers for ****, it was Paul that did that for them. Otherwise he'd be getting good numbers on a 20 win team, ala Wall on the Wizards. Right?


Your argument is flawed until Wall has some people around him in Washington, saying he sucks at this point is just plain lazy and stupid.

My thoughts on Blake Griffin are somewhat similar. He doesnt suck, but he is wildly over rated by the masses and not the best PG in the league or a superstar level talent. With that being said I do not think my argument with Wall is flawed. Being on a bad team is not the reason he makes dozens of passes into traffic, being on a bad team is not the reason why he is the worst shooter in the league, being on a bad team is not the reason why he constantly drives into the paint with no direction and ends up making a terrible basketball play. The team has been good enough where he could have curbed these things in year two, but yet it just got worse. Continuing to say he will turn it around or hes still a good player etc etc is lazy when he has given you guys no evidence to believe so.

Being on a bad team is two fold tho. It does NOT just include the players, but the coaches/staff around him as well. At 22, he may not be ASKED to focus on improved shooting, or say rebounding, or even being a lockdown defender, whatever area you would want a player to grow. They may be asking him to focus only on creating (hence riskier passes) or things of that nature. (I don't personally know what the Wizards ask of him)

Switch him to another group. Put him with a coach/system that dictates he be the primary scorer, ie, needs to shoot better, and they give him the routine to work on to improve those areas, does he still suck? It isn't just the team, it's the org as well for a lot of these guys/teams. Saying, well, he's the #1 pick, so automatically the Wizards as a whole should improve, no, that's not how it works. Not even close. There is sooooo much more that goes into it. And right now, Wall doesn't have the help he needs.

You don't think Wall would be a much better player in 12 months workin for the Celtics, or the Jerry Sloan Jazz, or the Bulls, or any other franchise that is strong in their coaching/management with semi competent players as well?

 

[pmatic]

Just like how the Thunder are an outlier in how great and lucky they have been in rebuilding, the Wizards are an outlier in how abysmal they have been in rebuilding the team.

 

[jjs07]

Being on a bad team is two fold tho. It does NOT just include the players, but the coaches/staff around him as well. At 22, he may not be ASKED to focus on improved shooting, or say rebounding, or even being a lockdown defender, whatever area you would want a player to grow. They may be asking him to focus only on creating (hence riskier passes) or things of that nature. (I don't personally know what the Wizards ask of him)

Switch him to another group. Put him with a coach/system that dictates he be the primary scorer, ie, needs to shoot better, and they give him the routine to work on to improve those areas, does he still suck? It isn't just the team, it's the org as well for a lot of these guys/teams. Saying, well, he's the #1 pick, so automatically the Wizards as a whole should improve, no, that's not how it works. Not even close. There is sooooo much more that goes into it. And right now, Wall doesn't have the help he needs.

You don't think Wall would be a much better player in 12 months workin for the Celtics, or the Jerry Sloan Jazz, or the Bulls, or any other franchise that is strong in their coaching/management with semi competent players as well?

And this is why as Wizards fans, we're grasping at straws that guys like Nene, Okafor, Ariza, Beal, etc will help show the type of player that Wall can be. Just look at the guys I mentioned...Nene, Okafor, Ariza, and Beal. THIS group has the highest collective b-ball IQ that we've seen from a DC squad in 3 years.

 

[antidope]

He does suck. He is terrible. Did you really say his numbers are aligned with most PGs in their second year? Most PGs lead the league in turnovers since their inception into the league? Most PGs shoot the leagues worst FG% from outside the paint?http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...effective-field-goal-percentage-john-wall-nba. Most PGs are number one overall picks who have failed to elevate their team by any measure since playing? I feel bad for most PGs then I didnt know they were all struggling this bad.

But hey he shook a guy, lets just give him MVP right now.
Why is Perkins slapping him so hard?
Thank you.
Wall is a number 1 overall pick. These players are not simply products of their enviroment, they are the players that are supposed to change their environment almost single handedly, elevate their team to the next level by not only playing great, but by making their teammates better, ESPECIALLY a PG. He has done neither of those things. But we will see, like I siad in the PG thread, let this be the last year that the John Wall hype train rides with no steam.

Wall, was arguably in the worst environment of ANY PG in the NBA over the past 2 1/2 years. I seriously challenge you to find a more dysfunctional unit than what the Wizards had around him in his tenure thus far.

Everyone agrees that there are things he needs to work on. However, I'm more than willing to give him a pass for his "lack" of development due to how the roster has been constructed.

I brought up Deron Williams, and I'd love to get your insight. EVERYTHING you said can be applied to Deron Williams in his time with New Jersey. EVERYTHING. However, I sense an extreme double-standard (from folks on NT) who overlook the crap team he was playing with and also failing to notice his regression from the time he came over from Utah. Somehow, Wall is held to a higher standard. Why, I just don't know?

As VP pointed out, Wall is actually similar to other PGs (statistically) in their first two years in the league. He just doesn't have the wins to show for it. This is NOT on Wall. I'm sorry. I doubt any other PG (except for maybe CP or Rondo) could have made lemonade from the lemons on the roster in DC before this year. Now that everyone is getting healthier, lets see what happens from here on out.

*Just curious...how many Wizards games have you actually watched?
 

I will not be one of those people who doesnt apply the same standards to Deron. He is under acheiving and quite frankly its appauling. He was right next to John Wall in turnovers the last season in Jersey, there is no excuse for that, and he was forcing things just as often.

The Kings have been equally as dysfunctional IMO but thats another story. I just havent seen anything from John Wall individually that warrants anyone still having faith in him, I dont really take the teams sucess into account that much cause the team does in fact suck, but simple things like Pick and Roll with McGee when he was there seemed impossible to the guy. Some of that can be blamed on McGee, the coach, the rest of the team, but the buck has to come back to Wall at some point, which I have rarely see anyone do. Its always "Walls gonna get better, the team sucks, put Wall on Boston you'd see". Most PGs their first two years in the league dont turn the ball over at such an alarming rate, and they definitely dont shoot that bad of a FG% unless their name is Austin Rivers. His personal development has been nonexistent and you woudl think a number one overall pick would see some just from seeing the floor for an entire season and learning how NBA ball is played but not this guy.

I dont watch many Wizards games, and I wont pretend I do. Theyre not a team I'm particularly interested in, so if I am watching them, its because theyre playing a team I do want to watch, but honestly outside of you, who esle is? There are few die hard Wizards fans around, I would wager that most have the same amount of viewing time of the Wizards as I do, theyre just on your side about the matter.

 

[addict4sneakers]

so does kyrie irving suck?

he team doesn't win games. he isn't making his teammmates better. his assist/TO ratio is bad. you'd expect a number one pick to have lead his team to at least double digit wins by now

(i'm not being serious)

 

[coldcity]

Iman Shumpert and Derrick Rose tore their ACLs on the same day. Yet, Shumpert is slated to return this Thurs with Rose's return still nowhere in sight..

dont care at all ...let DR1 heal & come back when HE is ready

 

[victor page]

He does suck. He is terrible. Did you really say his numbers are aligned with most PGs in their second year? Most PGs lead the league in turnovers since their inception into the league? Most PGs shoot the leagues worst FG% from outside the paint?http://articles.washingtonpost.com/...effective-field-goal-percentage-john-wall-nba. Most PGs are number one overall picks who have failed to elevate their team by any measure since playing? I feel bad for most PGs then I didnt know they were all struggling this bad.

But hey he shook a guy, lets just give him MVP right now.

In the past...I'd just riddle you with insults. But i'm trying to keep this name for a little while. Let me just pick apart your reply.

1ST

Rookie Seasons

Chris Paul (2005-06) – 16.1 points, 7.8 assists, 5.1 rebounds, 2.2 steals, 2.3 turnovers

Deron Williams (2005-06) – 10.8 points, 4.5 assists, 2.4 rebounds, .8 steals, 1.8 turnovers

Rajon Rondo (2006-07) – 6.4 points, 3.8 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 1.6 steals, 1.8 turnovers

Derrick Rose (2008-09) – 16.8 points, 6.3 assists, 3.9 rebounds, .8 steals, 2.5 turnovers

Russell Westbrook (2008-09) – 15.3 points, 5.3 assists, 4.9 rebounds, 1.3 steals, 3.3 turnovers

John Wall (2010-11) -16.4 points, 8.3 assists, 4.6 rebounds, 1.8 steals, 3.8 turnovers

Sophomore Seasons

Chris Paul (2005-06) – 17.3 points, 8.9 assists, 4.4 rebounds, 1.8 steals, 2.5 turnovers

Deron Williams (2005-06) – 16.2 points, 9.3 assists, 2.4 rebounds, 1.0 steals, 3.1 turnovers

Rajon Rondo (2006-07) – 10.6 points, 5.1 assists, 4.2 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 1.9 turnovers

Derrick Rose (2008-09) – 20.8 points, 6.0 assists, 3.8 rebounds, .7 steals, 2.8 turnovers

Russell Westbrook (2008-09) – 16.1 points, 8.0 assists, 4.9 rebounds, 1.3 steals, 3.3 turnovers

John Wall (2010-11) -16.3 points, 8.0 assists, 4.0 rebounds, 1.4 steals, 3.9 turnovers

I'd say his numbers stack up with those other guys through 2 seasons. Or do you just want to point "outside of the paint FG%" and use that as a reason as to why he doesn't?

2nd

He's never led the league in turnovers

3rd

Most point guards aren't surrounded by some of the worst teammates and THE worst management in the entire league. The other #1 PG pick in recent memory is Derrick Rose. He was drafted onto a team that barely missed the playoffs the season before. But na...if Wall was really good...he would have took a lineup of Andray Blatche, Javale McGee, Nick Young, and Al Thornton to the playoffs right?

4th

Why resort to idiotic statements like "But hey he shook a guy, lets just give him MVP right now", when nobody here suggested anything of the sort. Nobody here said John Wall is a great point guard because he made Ish Smith fall. You said he sucked...and your main argument was "outside of the paint FG%". Nobody around here takes Zyzz serious...so I don't mind his brainless comments. I thought you were somewhat better than he was...but the "this guy sucks and I don't have a legit basis for my statement" isn't exclusive to him I see.

 

[victor page]

so does kyrie irving suck?

he team doesn't win games. he isn't making his teammmates better. his assist/TO ratio is bad. you'd expect a number one pick to have lead his team to at least double digit wins by now

(i'm not being serious)

Nah man.

He hits game winners. And he has a cool commercial out.

 

[antidope]

My thoughts on Blake Griffin are somewhat similar. He doesnt suck, but he is wildly over rated by the masses and not the best PG in the league or a superstar level talent. With that being said I do not think my argument with Wall is flawed. Being on a bad team is not the reason he makes dozens of passes into traffic, being on a bad team is not the reason why he is the worst shooter in the league, being on a bad team is not the reason why he constantly drives into the paint with no direction and ends up making a terrible basketball play. The team has been good enough where he could have curbed these things in year two, but yet it just got worse. Continuing to say he will turn it around or hes still a good player etc etc is lazy when he has given you guys no evidence to believe so.

Being on a bad team with awful players is forcing him to play outside of his game. Aka, DOING TOO MUCH.

Also, I have NO clue what you're talking about when you say:

The team has been good enough where he could have curbed these things in year two, but yet it just got worse.

Makes me wonder how much Wizards basketball you're REALLY watching. This team has been nowhere good enough (nor the environment) for any young player to thrive. There are problems from the front office down to the players on the team. It's dysfunctional beyond belief. As an example, this is the same franchise that made Javale McGee come out of pocket for a big man coach. Think about that. It goes on and on.

Again...if everyone can stay relatively healthy, let's revisit this debate at the end of the season.

Oh the team does suck, but I still think that hes been on the floor long enough, and the team is good enough to the point where he shouldnt be making the same mistakes all the time. The onus falls on him to lower his turnovers and fix abysmal shooting. I'm willing to leave the door open on the guy until the end of this year, its only fair.

So then Anti, you think Blake Griffin sucks too then?

Cuz he wouldn't change the Clippers for ****, it was Paul that did that for them. Otherwise he'd be getting good numbers on a 20 win team, ala Wall on the Wizards. Right?


Your argument is flawed until Wall has some people around him in Washington, saying he sucks at this point is just plain lazy and stupid.

My thoughts on Blake Griffin are somewhat similar. He doesnt suck, but he is wildly over rated by the masses and not the best PG in the league or a superstar level talent. With that being said I do not think my argument with Wall is flawed. Being on a bad team is not the reason he makes dozens of passes into traffic, being on a bad team is not the reason why he is the worst shooter in the league, being on a bad team is not the reason why he constantly drives into the paint with no direction and ends up making a terrible basketball play. The team has been good enough where he could have curbed these things in year two, but yet it just got worse. Continuing to say he will turn it around or hes still a good player etc etc is lazy when he has given you guys no evidence to believe so.

Being on a bad team is two fold tho. It does NOT just include the players, but the coaches/staff around him as well. At 22, he may not be ASKED to focus on improved shooting, or say rebounding, or even being a lockdown defender, whatever area you would want a player to grow. They may be asking him to focus only on creating (hence riskier passes) or things of that nature. (I don't personally know what the Wizards ask of him)

Switch him to another group. Put him with a coach/system that dictates he be the primary scorer, ie, needs to shoot better, and they give him the routine to work on to improve those areas, does he still suck? It isn't just the team, it's the org as well for a lot of these guys/teams. Saying, well, he's the #1 pick, so automatically the Wizards as a whole should improve, no, that's not how it works. Not even close. There is sooooo much more that goes into it. And right now, Wall doesn't have the help he needs.

You don't think Wall would be a much better player in 12 months workin for the Celtics, or the Jerry Sloan Jazz, or the Bulls, or any other franchise that is strong in their coaching/management with semi competent players as well?

I am honestly not sure. I have no faith in the guy whatsoever and dont think he would flourish in many enviroments. I dont think hes good at all.

 

[flyerthandelta]

Iman Shumpert and Derrick Rose tore their ACLs on the same day. Yet, Shumpert is slated to return this Thurs with Rose's return still nowhere in sight..

Stop comparing, everybody built differently not everyone can do what AP did either....

 

[grandtheftbike]

so does kyrie irving suck?


he team doesn't win games. he isn't making his teammmates better. his assist/TO ratio is bad. you'd expect a number one pick to have lead his team to at least double digit wins by now


(i'm not being serious)

Nah man.

He hits game winners. And he has a cool commercial out.

Hall of fame

 

[pmatic]

Don't look now, but the Nuggets are gaining ground (1.5 games behind the Warriors, 2.5 behind the Grizzlies). Five game winning streak and nine of their next eleven games are at home. Their road heavy start to the season is starting to balance out.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Don't look now, but the Nuggets are gaining ground (1.5 games behind the Warriors, 2.5 behind the Grizzlies). Five game winning streak and nine of their next eleven games are at home. Their road heavy start to the season is starting to balance out.

 

[Bert.]

Who yall voted for in the All Star game?

Jeremy Lin

 

[Bert.]

first off i didnt say Wall was bad/sucked

hes def talented but he hasnt improved in area's of his game, thats all i said

damn

 

[antidope]

I siad he sucks. This is the same place wheres 40 page thread saying Kobe Byrant isnt a top player ever, I think I'm allowed to think John Wall sucks without being burned at the stake.