***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[osh kosh bosh]

If I had to say i'm guessing I would have supported Kathryn Garcia??
So I'm not some Eric Adams super fan, isn't he in favour of stop and frisk? that's obviously bad.

 

[dacomeup]

who said I was giddy?

You’ve been trolling since yesterday by “asking questions” and taking a victory lap. Being giddy is really what you’re choosing to take umbrage with?

t seems like this general point has broader implications for many controversial progressive ideas.

A lot of progressive ideas have broad support across both sides of the aisle too. Which specific ideas are you speaking about?

 

[RustyShackleford]

I mean don't get me wrong, it is true I have healthy amount of contempt for many hyper progressives.
and as paid more attention to progressive activist groups, any deference I use to accord to them has totally evaporated

and it's been replaced by intense skepticism of their claims, intentions, strategies and goals.





that's why I'm trying to understand and steel man these ideas.
Because I find it truly baffling.

Im trying to build the progressive case for understanding the NYC mayoral election outcome

I don't believe you

If that was the case you would have tried to start the discussion in a more sincere and productive way

Instead, last night you ran in here to trolling from the jump

I lived in NYC, I follow their politics somewhat, I got tons of friends and family that live there, there are plenty of NYC NTers on the boards, and it makes sense to me that Adams got that coalition.

The same way it made sense to me that DeBlassio strolled into police promising to put the NYPD on a leash.

People want the NYPD to prevent crime, they don't want them to harass and violate innocent young black men while they do it. Many of the same people that want the NYPD to get crime under control, will also demand cops don't get let off when they murder someone.

Holding the NYPD accountable for the continuing ******* is not some ultra-progressive position in NYC, probably most Adams voters probably want them held accountable too. The thing is people want effective policing without the ******* and they think Adams will deliver it.

Many don't think he will be another Bloomberg and Guiliani on misconduct, that's it will get that bad.

But for some ******* reason you act like it is the only victims of police brutality and misconduct, or far-left progressives, want accountability. You have over-corrected and have seemingly started to act like a conservative in these discussions. Where crime reduction and accountability must be seen as binary choices. So if a person's vote is motivated by reducing crime, they must not be interested in all that stuff those lefties talk about.

 

[Wargames]

Spare me

This happened and you ran in here for a trolling victory lap. Like it vindicated your previous arguments. But if we were to discuss it, I know you would have to clarify this, clarify that, recalibrate this, recalibrate that, and move the goal post around. All the while still proclaiming you are right and were right all along.

And like Based Jesus said, there was a data point going in the opposite direction, in a city with a higher concentration of black people. But no mention of it from you, and I highly doubt you will reflect on that.

And who the hell has to reflect on what? You want to be vague and play coy because that is the zone where your rhetorical moves can flourish the best.

I am not a mad, maybe a bit disappointed, at any black person that voted for Adam because I can understand why they did it. From me following NYC politics and living in the city for some time. But I will have an issue with someone that has never had to deal with American policing, especially something on the level of the NYPD, with this hang-up with young progressives, constantly running in a space he knows he is filled with black people that have been violated by the police, and act we are ignorant of our own communities and be flippant about people's legitimate concerns with the police.

So this Diet Delk act you are indulging just seems like some clown behavior.

A reason why Eric got the benefit of the doubt on the police is that he often gives speeches where he mentions how he was a victim of police abuse as a teen and then joined the police to change it and he started 100 blacks in law enforcement and how he played a part in implementing compstat and would use data and not race to create policing policies.

He ran as a police reformer and has a history of it. I know a lot of black people who are very worried police defunding because if crime could get bad again because they fewe that if a defunding happened it would likely be their neighborhood that would experience a lack of service.

 

[marikomorose]

Ah so perhaps black people who have greater exposure to crime are more supportive of tough on crime politics?

No, hell no. You ever heard of stop n frisk or black ppl's general aversion to police specfically in these neighborhoods? He bringing that **** back under guise of "spot checks" & anyone w/ sense knows who that's gonna target. Do crimes not start when **** started closing due to the pandemic & rendered many ppl "non essential"? Find me a video of Eric Adams campaigning & I'll tell you why he got the numbers he did.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I've accepted you guys want to "defund the police" and you all are convinced it's a good idea.


What's the best way of making that happen?

I think it might have been possible in a low crime environment we've enjoyed for the past 20 years


Eric Adams strength with black voters and the salience of crime in this election.
It seems to me the recent surge in crime rates seriously complicates this goal.

or does it not?

See what I ******* mean

We are just vehicles for you to take out his frustrations with all the young progressives in his life.

You don't give a **** about productive discourse

 

[osh kosh bosh]

But for some ****ing reason you act like it is the only victims of police brutality and misconduct, or far-left progressives, want accountability. You have over-corrected and have seemingly started to act like a conservative in these discussions. Where crime reduction and accountability must be seen as binary choices.

Yah but I actually haven't.

I support most progressive crime reducing ideas, it's really just one thing that I don't support.
so I don't see how im in favour of a binary choice

People want the NYPD to prevent crime, they don't want them to harass and violate innocent young black men while they do it. Many of the same people that want the NYPD to get crime under control, will also demand cops don't get let off when they murder someone.

I 100% agree with all of this.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I find this special pleading around trolling to be a little rich.


For months and months everytime police do something bad, someone tags me and says I want to give them more money

an obvious lie about my position.



but I ask a few question and i'm the troll?

 

[dacomeup]

FiveThirtyEight Politics on Apple Podcasts

News · 2024

podcasts.apple.com

A non trolling argument on why “progressives” weren’t doing well in the NYC election from last week. The real answer is that this was a weak batch of candidates.

 

[dacomeup]

but I ask a few question and i'm the troll?

You were obviously trolling and trying to take a victory lap. Not sure why you’re being dishonest about it. You also believe that more money to the police is the answer. Both things are true.

 

[RustyShackleford]

A reason why Eric got the benefit of the doubt on the police is that he often gives speeches where he mentions how he was a victim of police abuse as a teen and then joined the police to change it and he started 100 blacks in law enforcement and how he played a part in implementing compstat and would use data and not race to create policing policies.

He ran as a police reformer and has a history of it. I know a lot of black people who are very worried police defunding because if crime could get bad again because they fewe that if a defunding happened it would likely be their neighborhood that would experience a lack of service.

That's the thing.

Adams is not just telling people he will let the NYPD do whatever they want, it won't be like that. That is the major friction with Adam on policing. Some trust him to do this, some don't.

And "defunding" has been deployed by Yang and Adams as meaning that when there is a crime there will be no police around.

The most extreme "defund the police" type position was by who, Wiley? And wasn't her thing about cutting the police budget to give some to social services.

And the massive issue with implementing such a thing like I said in the past is the Police union will instruct the officers to street veto it unless the city allows them to milk overtime and cover all the lawsuits they cause.

The NYPD will always have a massive budget.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I find this special pleading around trolling to be a little rich.


For months and months everytime police do something bad, someone tags me and says I want to give them more money

an obvious lie about my position.



but I ask a few question and i'm the troll?

So this wasn't you last night....

I said this...

Brah, miss me with the disingenuous steez

Quit the Delk act famb.

So you are just happening to ask a question on this subject. Not trying to imply that some political argument you had in the past has been somehow validated.

dacomeup tell me if are you buying this?

And your response was basically admitting it....

I have no idea what you are talking about...

Joking aside.

I hope whoever wins is YIMBY.

Why the hell you keep acting like NT is Snapchat and your previous post just vanish really confuses me.

You came in here with the "just asking questions" steez last night. I called it out, you admitted to it

You come back this morning on the same ********, I call it out, but somehow I am the one being unreasonable

Man **** off with this

 

[dinyc3st]

How to catch multiple bodies live:

 

[RustyShackleford]

Yah but I actually haven't.

I support most progressive crime reducing ideas, it's really just one thing that I don't support.
so I don't see how im in favour of a binary choice




I 100% agree with all of this.

I am saying in this argument you are framing things like a conservative

Not that you hold conservative views on the policy solutions

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Mother****er this wasn't you last night....

I said this...





And your response was basically admitting it....





Why the **** you keep acting like NT is Snapchat and you previous post just vanish really confuses me.

You came in here with the "just asking questions" steez last night. I called it out, you admitted to it

You come back this morning on the same bull****, I call it out, but somehow I am the one being unreasonable

Man **** off

i tell a joke and then ask a serious question? i can't do both? okay

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You were obviously trolling and trying to take a victory lap. Not sure why you’re being dishonest about it. You also believe that more money to the police is the answer. Both things are true.

I've been very clear on things I would support.
just indiscriminately giving more money to the police is not one of them and you know this.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I've been very clear on things I would support.
just indiscriminately giving more money to the police is not one of them and you know this.

Oh, so you think it is unfair people misrepresent your views on police reform but it is cool when you do it to others?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

It's amazing, "defund the police" contains all this deep nuance that requires care and empathy to understand.


but I say, make it easier to fire bad cops, increase support for non police first responders, and increase time spent solving crimes and decrease time spent harassing people

can be reduced to "pay police more money" and it's all good.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Oh, so you think it is unfair people misrepresent your views on police reform but it is cool when you do it to others?

who's view did I misrepresent?

I asked questions about people's viewpoint?
I don't think I claimed to have an understanding of anyone's viewpoint.

 

[RustyShackleford]

i tell a joke and then ask a serious question? i can't do both? okay

Dude spare me. I am not stupid

So you present your trolling and sincere questions in the same way and you think it is unfair that people can't tell them apart. Give me a ******* break

It seems it is because people didn't entertain the trolling that you are now trying to act we are being unreasonable

 

[RustyShackleford]

who's view did I misrepresent?

I asked questions about people's viewpoint?
I don't think I claimed to have an understanding of anyone's viewpoint.

Again Osh, is this you...

I've accepted you guys want to "defund the police" and you all are convinced it's a good idea.


What's the best way of making that happen?

I think it might have been possible in a low crime environment we've enjoyed for the past 20 years


Eric Adams strength with black voters and the salience of crime in this election.
It seems to me the recent surge in crime rates seriously complicates this goal.

or does it not?

I don't have an English degree, but this doesn't appear to be a question. So me and dacomeup are the two people going at you the hardest right now, and our views can pretty much be summed up like that?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Again Osh, is this you...



I don't have an English degree, but this doesn't appear to be a question. So me and dacomeup are the two people going at you the hardest right now, and our views can pretty much be summed up like that?

oh am i wrong about that? this thread isn't overwhelmingly pro defund the police?

Im not being sarcastic, it's a serious question

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I don't have an English degree, but this doesn't appear to be a question. So me and dacomeup are the two people going at you the hardest right now, and our views can pretty much be summed up like that?

the defund the police thing is really hard to pin down given that range of its meanings.

I would have pegged you towards to more nuanced version of defund but ultimately pro budget cuts?
but if you don't fall into that my bad.

 

[Based Jesus]

With the older more conservative/immigrants ones, sure. "Adams won Black and Hispanic voters in the outer boroughs." Looks of older ppl & immigrants in that deep purple area, so that not that surprising. I'm kinda surprised AOC didn't have more influence in that upper Manhattan/ lower Bronx region, but then again that's where a lot the crime is very visibly happening:

You can see from the map AOC had influence where younger voters tend to reside in the city
But Adams kinda hit the nail on the head. He was an *** about it but he was right.
“Social media does not pick a candidate, people on social security pick a candidate.”

The biggest barrier to progressive wins is young people not ******* voting. I got my *** up and voted but my sister didn't. Been out everyday this week including yesterday but couldn't spare a few minutes to go vote 2 blocks away. That's where we lose. Not on messaging. Messaging could be improved, I agree with Osh on that, although probably not to the level he'd change it. But the biggest issue is action.

Young people of color did not vote for him. Young people of color probably didn't vote that much at all. Older people of color did. And convincing older people to vote progressively has so far been a pretty daunting task. They get their information from traditional sources who tell them every day that we're returning to the days of old NY (we're not) and Adams, an already trusted face to them, says he's gonna stop that. So they vote for him because they don't see it as their heads in danger of getting cracked in by the NYPD anymore. It's the dangerous kids (unrelated to them of course) who make them feel unsafe and want anarchy in the city who are in trouble. So they have no problem voting for someone who in one breath wants to empower the NYPD but in the other claims he'll also reform it so they don't go after good upstanding citizens. Just threats that don't actually exist.

 

[marikomorose]

How police in this small West Virginia town received a $1m armoured truck

Defence Department program boosted by Donald Trump has sent billions of dollars in military equipment to law enforcement

www.independent.co.uk

"The police department in Moundsville, West Virginia — which has a population of fewer than 9,000 people, as of the latest US Census, and where violent crime is low — is one of the latest local law enforcement agencies to receive a hulking armoured military vehicle from the US Department of Defence."