***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[friscostylez]

Obama is not much on an optimist these days, mans seems to very pessimistic about America's future but he knows he can't admit it publicly.

i'm disagreeing but i'm interested to know what makes you think that?

 

[marikomorose]

wow this is really surprising,
from looking at this data it really appears that New Yorkers seem to really really care about stopping crime.

and what's crazier is electing a former republican tough on crime police officer to do it.


and it looks like he pretty handily won the black vote
I guess they think...as a former police office he will be better equipped to cut police funding?

Just read it this instead of speculating, it's right here:

Plans - Maya Wiley for Mayor

www.mayawileyformayor.com

That defund the police **** is real. On like 100th b/t amesterdam & columbus, there use to be a library there & they tore it down for a precinct. Do u know what does to the minds of ppl in these communities? Here plan was take that money, like a billi or something like that & reinvest into ****** up communities throughout the boroughs. Not stuff kids in these ****** up communities in classes w/ a 1:100 teacher to student ratio, ruining their lives b4 they get a chance to start one. The only progress Eric Adams supports is decay.

 

[marikomorose]

i'm disagreeing but i'm interested to know what makes you think that?

His demeanor has clearly changed in the time between Trayvon Martin & George Floyd.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I suggest you stop trolling because this is not some big I told you so moment.

I really don't know the ****ing point of your post to be honest. These random young progressives piss you off and we have to constantly deal with the fallout of it.

I know you like this whole internet ******* schtick is your thing, but you are starting to act like a clown with this.

You don't follow NYC politics, you never lived in the city, you don't have to live under NYPD policing but you feel the need to be flippant about people's legitimate concerns.

Good ****ing grief

I mean im sure im to the left of whatever Adams policing proposals are so I don't know why you're annoyed with me.
be mad at the black voters in NYC who seems to want a tough on crime mayor.

I didn't vote for Adams, from what I can gleaned I probably wouldn't have voted for him



I just think it's all very interesting, hopefully maybe prompt some useful reflection

but hey maybe not.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Just read it this instead of speculating, it's right here:

Plans - Maya Wiley for Mayor

www.mayawileyformayor.com

That defund the police **** is real. On like 100th b/t amesterdam & columbus, there use to be a library there & they tore it down for a precinct. Do u know what does to the minds of ppl in these communities? Here plan was take that money, like a billi or something like that & reinvest into ****ed up communities throughout the boroughs. Not stuff kids in these ****ed up communities in classes w/ a 1:100 teacher to student ratio, ruining their lives b4 they get a chance to start one. The only progress Eric Adams supports is decay.

to be clear I do not support Eric Adams policing policy.

but
It just seems like lots and lots of black people in new york do.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The average american voter isn't well-informed and the media doesn't exactly focus on giving equal amounts of coverage.
Yang probably would've done better if he didn't get 95% of the coverage exposing what an *** he is.
Adams and the other candidates getting far less coverage worked out extraordinarily well in his favor.
He's a well known name in NY especially amongst older voters of color and he played into fears about crime.

It sucks but I wouldn't say it's indicative of an issue with progressive ideology or messaging. Look at what happened in Buffalo. Or the trend in the rest of the country. Yes it's a setback but I've been in NYC nearly my whole life. Born in Brownsville just like Adams. It's never been as progressive as it appears and that goes for the rest of the state as well.

Do you think black voters were unaware that Eric Adams was the "tough on crime" candidate?

 

[marikomorose]

A good amount of black ppl thought Ben Carson was the new Obama until they actually listened him.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

A good amount of black ppl thought Ben Carson was the new Obama until they actually listened him.

Yah but do you think black voters were unaware that Eric Adams was the "tough on crime" candidate?

 

[dacomeup]

Obama is not much on an optimist these days, mans seems to very pessimistic about America's future but he knows he can't admit it publicly.

McGee is probably hopefully because she has seen white people change. And to be honest, most white people could probably be deprogramed in the right conditions but it takes so much work and slack to things undermining the efforts that we will probably never see it in a large scale. The US never trying to solve segregation in any real way plus the right-wing culture wars (field by Fox) make it really hard to breakthrough. Plus, most minorities don't have the time and patience to deal with deprogramming white people

I do agree with McGee that the left needs to politically message to white people a class-race message that lets them know you are being scammed. The thing is, partisan gridlock really undermines this effort. If they don't see Dems being able to deliver some economic programs they will just vote on cultural issues.

That is her point. She’s seen anti black and immigrant whites women in middle America change their perspectives by interacting with other people in similar situations as them. The forces against deprogramming these white folks are just too invested in not allowing these people to do that. Their whole scam is predicated on that.

 

[dacomeup]

Do you think black voters were unaware that Eric Adams was the "tough on crime" candidate?

What’s your goal here? Seriously?

When the NYPD is back to terrorizing Black and Brown folks this will be a great I told you so for you.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I mean im sure im to the left of whatever Adams policing proposals are so I don't know why you're annoyed with me.
be mad at the black voters in NYC who seems to want a tough on crime mayor.

I didn't vote for Adams, from what I can gleaned I probably wouldn't have voted for him



I just think it's all very interesting, hopefully maybe prompt some useful reflection

but hey maybe not.

Spare me

This happened and you ran in here for a trolling victory lap. Like it vindicated your previous arguments. But if we were to discuss it, I know you would have to clarify this, clarify that, recalibrate this, recalibrate that, and move the goal post around. All the while still proclaiming you are right and were right all along.

And like Based Jesus said, there was a data point going in the opposite direction, in a city with a higher concentration of black people. But no mention of it from you, and I highly doubt you will reflect on that.

And who the hell has to reflect on what? You want to be vague and play coy because that is the zone where your rhetorical moves can flourish the best.

I am not a mad, maybe a bit disappointed, at any black person that voted for Adam because I can understand why they did it. From me following NYC politics and living in the city for some time. But I will have an issue with someone that has never had to deal with American policing, especially something on the level of the NYPD, with this hang-up with young progressives, constantly running in a space he knows he is filled with black people that have been violated by the police, and act we are ignorant of our own communities and be flippant about people's legitimate concerns with the police.

So this Diet Delk act you are indulging just seems like some clown behavior.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

What’s your goal here? Seriously?

When the NYPD is back to terrorizing Black and Brown folks this will be a great I told you so for you.

I have no goal.
IIm just trying to understand

Seems to me that if you're in favour of far left proposals on policing, and it seems like most of this thread is,

Seems like The strength of the black vote for Adams raises some serious questions about how you sell the public on this...or maybe it doesn't. I dunno.

Because the people that the NYPD terrorize seem poised to elect Adams.

 

[IATT]

Obama is not much on an optimist these days, mans seems to very pessimistic about America's future but he knows he can't admit it publicly.

McGee is probably hopefully because she has seen white people change. And to be honest, most white people could probably be deprogramed in the right conditions but it takes so much work and slack to things undermining the efforts that we will probably never see it in a large scale. The US never trying to solve segregation in any real way plus the right-wing culture wars (field by Fox) make it really hard to breakthrough. Plus, most minorities don't have the time and patience to deal with deprogramming white people

I do agree with McGee that the left needs to politically message to white people a class-race message that lets them know you are being scammed. The thing is, partisan gridlock really undermines this effort. If they don't see Dems being able to deliver some economic programs they will just vote on cultural issues.

America is f’d

gun control regulations is a perfect example.. it’s not a foreign concept to have potentially dangerous items regulated.. we get constant reminders of the dangers of those items.. and these dudes act like the sky is falling anytime regulations get discussed

70% of Americans support the issue and yet aint shhh happening

And the level of crazy that is just accepted from certain people.. like imagine if ilhan Omar was saying the stuff John’s daughter says on weekly basis on daytime tv.. and got shh like this

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Spare me

This happened and you ran in here for a trolling victory lap. Like it vindicated your previous arguments. But if we were to discuss it, I know you would have to clarify this, clarify that, recalibrate this, recalibrate that, and move the goal post around. All the while still proclaiming you are right and were right all along.

And like Based Jesus said, there was a data point going in the opposite direction, in a city with a higher concentration of black people. But no mention of it from you, and I highly doubt you will reflect on that.

And who the hell has to reflect on what? You want to be vague and play coy because that is the zone where your rhetorical moves can flourish the best.

I am not a mad, maybe a bit disappointed, at any black person that voted for Adam because I can understand why they did it. From me following NYC politics and living in the city for some time. But I will have an issue with someone that has never had to deal with American policing, especially something on the level of the NYPD, with this hang-up with young progressives, constantly running in a space he knows he is filled with black people that have been violated by the police, and act we are ignorant of our own communities and be flippant about people's legitimate concerns with the police.

So this Diet Delk act you are indulging just seems like some clown behavior.

your perception of this and are mine are so widely divergent im not here to litigate that stuff.

Im asking questions to understand yall because I literally don't understand


I haven't given my opinion
as you say as a non NYCer and a canadian it's very I guess insulting/triggering for people who have to deal with US police violence ect
im sure you can guess what I think about policing.


so Im just asking questions to clarify what the progressive position is on this, because I sincerely do not not understand

 

[RustyShackleford]

I have no goal.
IIm just trying to understand

Seems to me that if you're in favour of far left proposals on policing, and it seems like most of this thread is,

Seems like The strength of the black vote for Adams raises some serious questions about how you sell the public on this...or maybe it doesn't. I dunno.

Because the people that the NYPD terrorize seem poised to elect Adams.

You are Maple Delk at this point

-One you are lying, you clearly want to take an unearned victory lap
-********, You see people voice their serious displeasure with police misconduct, and demands for reforms, then you ascribe all far-left proposals to people in here.
-Yes you don't know. You just want to use this "I'm just asking questions" schtick because the direct internet ******* has worked out so great in the past
-And there it is, you have never lived in NYC, or had to live under American policing so it is easy for you act like people that disagree with you are exaggerating the situation. And black voters in a low turnout primary election, in one city, ignoring the other data, proves it.

Constantly playing this game of insight and ignorance to act like you are the only reasonable one in the room.

 

[dacomeup]

I have no goal.
IIm just trying to understand

Seems to me that if you're in favour of far left proposals on policing, and it seems like most of this thread is,

Seems like The strength of the black vote for Adams raises some serious questions about how you sell the public on this...or maybe it doesn't. I dunno.

Because the people that the NYPD terrorize seem poised to elect Adams.

What are you trying to understand? You’re soft trolling.

The electorate for primary elections is going to lean older and more wealthier just off top, so those policies are likely to be less popular in general. Is their enough data from the exit polls that even paint a picture of the turnout yet? Genuinely haven’t seen any.

People are entitled to wanting safer communities. We all do. White suburbs have them without over policing. We’ve seen that over policing is not a sustainable answer for decreasing crime. It’s a band aid that will have very dangerous ramifications on Black and Brown people. Why you’re so giddy about this being the option is actually very weird, given that you won’t have to deal with the reality. It’s not a game of Risk or Monopoly.

 

[marikomorose]

Yah but do you think black voters were unaware that Eric Adams was the "tough on crime" candidate?

With the older more conservative/immigrants ones, sure. "Adams won Black and Hispanic voters in the outer boroughs." Looks of older ppl & immigrants in that deep purple area, so that not that surprising. I'm kinda surprised AOC didn't have more influence in that upper Manhattan/ lower Bronx region, but then again that's where a lot the crime is very visibly happening:

 

[RustyShackleford]

your perception of this and are mine are so widely divergent im not here to litigate that stuff.

Im asking questions to understand yall because I literally don't understand


I haven't given my opinion
as you say as a non NYCer and a canadian it's very I guess insulting/triggering for people who have to deal with US police violence ect
im sure you can guess what I think about policing.


so Im just asking questions to clarify what the progressive position is on this, because I sincerely do not not understand

Osh, frankly I think you are being insincere about this whole NYC mayoral thing

And you are choosing to troll people

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The electorate for primary elections is going to lean older and more wealthier just off top, so those policies are likely to be less popular in general.

hmmm interesting point.

It seems like this general point has broader implications for many controversial progressive ideas.

People are entitled to wanting safer communities. We all do. White suburbs have them without over policing. We’ve seen that over policing is not a sustainable answer for decreasing crime. It’s a band aid that will have very dangerous ramifications on Black and Brown people.

I mostly agree.

Why you’re so giddy about this being the option is actually very weird, given that you won’t have to deal with the reality. It’s not a game of Risk or Monopoly.

who said I was giddy?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

With the older more conservative/immigrants ones, sure. "Adams won Black and Hispanic voters in the outer boroughs." Looks of older ppl & immigrants in that deep purple area, so that not that surprising. I'm kinda surprised AOC didn't have more influence in that upper Manhattan/ lower Bronx region, but then again that's where a lot the crime is very visibly happening:

Ah so perhaps black people who have greater exposure to crime are more supportive of tough on crime politics?

 

[RustyShackleford]

What are you trying to understand? You’re soft trolling.

The electorate for primary elections is going to lean older and more wealthier just off top, so those policies are likely to be less popular in general. Is their enough data from the exit polls that even paint a picture of the turnout yet? Genuinely haven’t seen any.

People are entitled to wanting safer communities. We all do. White suburbs have them without over policing. We’ve seen that over policing is not a sustainable answer for decreasing crime. It’s a band aid that will have very dangerous ramifications on Black and Brown people. Why you’re so giddy about this being the option is actually very weird, given that you won’t have to deal with the reality. It’s not a game of Risk or Monopoly.

That's basically what it is to him though

Plus after a damn ******* year, after he ranted and ranted about police reform, this dude really expects us to think the night after he came in here to admittedly jokingly troll the thread, that he is being sincere and just asking questions to reach an understanding

Give me a ******* break

 

[dinyc3st]

With the older more conservative/immigrants ones, sure. "Adams won Black and Hispanic voters in the outer boroughs." Looks of older ppl & immigrants in that deep purple area, so that not that surprising. I'm kinda surprised AOC didn't have more influence in that upper Manhattan/ lower Bronx region, but then again that's where a lot the crime is very visibly happening:

This right here, everyone

All those dark blue area all have the highest crime rates in NYC. I knew Yang lost as soon as he announced the NYPD union endorsed him.










That and him saying 42nd street is his favorite station

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Osh, frankly I think you are being insincere about this whole NYC mayoral thing

And you are choosing to troll people

I mean don't get me wrong, it is true I have healthy amount of contempt for many hyper progressives.
and as paid more attention to progressive activist groups, any deference I use to accord to them has totally evaporated

and it's been replaced by intense skepticism of their claims, intentions, strategies and goals.





that's why I'm trying to understand and steel man these ideas.
Because I find it truly baffling.

Im trying to build the progressive case for understanding the NYC mayoral election outcome

 

[Mark Antony]

Osh, frankly I think you are being insincere about this whole NYC mayoral thing

And you are choosing to troll people

Obviously.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I've accepted you guys want to "defund the police" and you all are convinced it's a good idea.


What's the best way of making that happen?

I think it might have been possible in a low crime environment we've enjoyed for the past 20 years


Eric Adams strength with black voters and the salience of crime in this election.
It seems to me the recent surge in crime rates seriously complicates this goal.

or does it not?