***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

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[IATT]

 

[jordanequalsme]

Sorry but that is meaningless without showing the incomes of the people being polled. A white person with an art degree working at starbucks is not the same as a white person with an MBA from an ivy league school. They both have different motives when voting.

Just from personal experience, I feel like this isn’t true. I guess I can’t speak for the whole nation but it doesn’t describe my household or any of my friends. Either way there are certainly plenty of high earning folks with MBAs who are very liberal.

 

[IATT]

 

[Based Jesus]

Yesterday they undo Roe and today my partner says she wants to go back to condoms

 

[dwalk31]

These are the same reasonable exceptions I mentioned yesterday.

In fact, I think limiting those exceptions to 120 days is unreasonable; you should be able to terminate the pregnancy at any point for those reasons.

 

[dwalk31]

Yesterday they undo Roe and today my partner says she wants to go back to condoms

Seems responsible/reasonable, for a number of reasons.

 

[IATT]

These are the same reasonable exceptions I mentioned yesterday.

or just keep it simple if YOU don’t want an abortion, don’t get one

if YOUR religious views don’t allow gay marriage, don’t get one

this is why freedom of religion and separation of church and state are important

I’ve also noticed that these religious zealots haven’t provided for religious exemptions

 

[osh kosh bosh]

And for all the folks who believe Biden actually cares about protecting abortions rights, here’s a nice video for you from an interview from the mid 2000’s. Fast forward to 16:40. Figured it would be a better look to post the original video that was posted 13 years ago verse the one posted recently by NewsMa which just shows the abortion portion lol.

Straight from Biden’s mouth “I do not view abortion as a choice or a right, I think it’s always a tragedy.”

Or was he just pandering to Texas voters since it was on a Texas talk show? Or just another typical fake, two faced politician who is now POTUS.

i don't know why people do this like its some gotcha.

Biden always positions himself in the center of the democratic party.
in the mid 2000's "safe legal and rare" was the center of the democratic party.

the democrats have moved to the left on this issue,

and now Biden moved to support repealing the hyde amendment and a appoints exclusively pro choice judges.



now imo the safe legal and rare framework Biden is basically espousing in this video
is closer to the median voter, and the democrats would be better off moving back to that.
so they can win more elections and protect abortion rights.

but this video isn't an indication of Bidens lack of support for abortion rights in 2022.
it's evidence that Joe Biden is very old and has been in politics for a long *** time.

 

[dwalk31]

or just keep it simple if YOU don’t want an abortion, don’t get one

if YOUR religious views don’t allow gay marriage, don’t get one

this is why freedom of religion and separation of church and state are important

I’ve also noticed that these religious zealots haven’t provided for religious exemptions

I don’t oppose gay marriage; I support it.

Killing unborn children isn’t about religion any more than any other law surrounding murder is about religion.

Your position completely ignores the unborn baby. I’m a father, so perhaps my perspective is different than yours.

 

[IATT]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

But he’s basically saying, the rich and wealthy run the government, and that the parties are there to give us the illusion of choice, and then goes on to say we have no choice. Which can fall back to people not critical thinking as well when they fall into the two party paradigm. I mean it’s pretty s***** that it is almost always choosing for the lesser of two evils. Heck, I remember in 2004 the John Kerry nominee for the Dems, nobody liked him or was excited about him at all, I wasn’t old enough to vote but from what I can remember, nobody was happy about voting for John Kerry at all.

It’s a pretty bleak way of thinking, but I feel it’s most likely pretty spot on.

you are just severely underrated the amount of americans who are mostly satisfied with the status quo,
and want incremental change on the margins.

it's the highly educated, highly ideological wealthier parts of bath parties
that are pushing for dramatic change.

i think you are projecting your frustrations on to the entire country.

 

[gry60]

 

[IATT]

I don’t oppose gay marriage; I support it.

Killing unborn children isn’t about religion any more than any other law surrounding murder is about religion.

Your position completely ignores the unborn baby. I’m a father, so perhaps my perspective is different than yours.

different religions have deferring views on abortions

i never stated my personal views on abortion, because I don’t believe my personal views on this matter should dictate the law for everyone

not everyone has the same religious views that I do.. and that is their right

not everyone has the financial means that i do.. not everyone has the access to the medical care that I do

i am also a dude, so it’s not my body drastically changing and facing significant medical risk

whether or not I have a child doesn’t change the circumstances for someone else.. or everyone else

 

[osh kosh bosh]

arguing about religion as it relates to abortion is just pointless
people have moral intuitions that may be derived from their religion,

but you can come up with a rationale for being anti abortion that has no religious content.


so the "well freedom from religion!" "im not in your lil book club" argument

just ends up being a pointless waste of time
that could possibly insult and alienate potential allies.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

"I think that a fetus is a organism that deserves the same moral weight as human being"

isn't really a falsifiable claim.
it's imo highly impractical, impinges on women's freedom and i think is fundamentally unworkable in practice.

but you aren't going to disabuse people of this by saying "freedom from religion"

 

[gry60]

arguing about religion as it relates to abortion is just pointless
people have moral intuitions that may be derived from their religion,

but you can come up with a rationale for being anti abortion that has no religious content.

You could come up with an anti-abortion rationale divorced from religion, but the fact remains that most of the rationale against abortion is based on Christian interpretation of the issue, and that interpretation is not shared by other religions that are present and practiced in the US.

 

[AEA18]

 

[kdawg]

 

[IATT]

arguing about religion as it relates to abortion is just pointless
people have moral intuitions that may be derived from their religion,

but you can come up with a rationale for being anti abortion that has no religious content.


so the "well freedom from religion!" "im not in your lil book club" argument

just ends up being a pointless waste of time
that could possibly insult and alienate potential allies.

freedom of religion, also means freedom from religion.. the choice is for the individual

I am simply pointing out that different prominent religions have deferring views on abortion

i am also pointing out the obvious conveniences of all this, because they seemingly do not take issue with trump and his multiple marriages and infidelity in all of his marriages

 

[dwalk31]

different religions have deferring views on abortions

i never stated my personal views on abortion, because I don’t believe my personal views on this matter should dictate the law for everyone

not everyone has the same religious views that I do.. and that is their right

not everyone has the financial means that i do.. not everyone has the access to the medical care that I do

i am also a dude, so it’s not my body drastically changing and facing significant medical risk

whether or not I have a child doesn’t change the circumstances for someone else.. or everyone else

This is a bit nonsensical. You say your personal views don’t matter and shouldn’t dictate the law for everyone, but do you think it should matter for your own children?

Do you think your personal views matter in the decision whether to abort your children?

I agree that if there’s a health concern, the right to terminate the pregnancy should be absolute. My view on restriction is limited to post-first trimester absent a medical reason, rape, or incest. In those limited situations, I think it is more like murder. We have many laws surrounding murder and exceptions.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

You could come up with an anti-abortion rationale divorced from religion, but the fact remains that most of the rationale against abortion is based on Christian interpretation of the issue, and that interpretation is not shared by other religions that are present and practiced in the US.

My point is so what?

The legal arguments won't be based on religion.

If someone says I believe murder is wrong because God/ Allah whatever.

If doesn't mean that freedoms from religion applies. The legal arguments won't be based don that.

And if you go around telling people "im not in your little book club"

It just seems like pointlessly antagonistic and alienating

To many religions people who have complex views on this subject who could be potential allies.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

freedom of religion, also means freedom from religion.. the choice is for the individual

I am simply pointing out that different prominent religions have deferring views on abortion

i am also pointing out the obvious conveniences of all this, because they seemingly do not take issue with trump and his multiple marriages and infidelity in all of his marriages

Sure and I'm saying this is an irrelevant gotcha
that won't convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you.

 

[IATT]

, but do you think it should matter for your own children?

what does this have to do with other people?

and i would hope that my children would be able to make their own choices once they are old enough.. I shouldn’t need a law to obligate them to follow my religious views

Do you think your personal views matter in the decision whether to abort your children?

do I have children or not?

and what does my religious views gotta do with other people?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Dont' let dwalk31 drag y'all into a rabbit hole today