***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[aepps20]

Trump Leads in 5 Critical States as Voters Blast Biden, Times/Siena Poll Finds

Voters in battleground states said they trusted Donald J. Trump over President Biden on the economy, foreign policy and immigration, as Mr. Biden’s multiracial base shows signs of fraying.

www.nytimes.com

LOL
This sentence sums up the stupidity of the American voter:


I stand corrected:


This dude had classified documents in his resort bathrooms and lied to the government about returning them

WTF?

Hopefully this is a wakeup call to our side that this election will be close. I've said it many times in here but WE have to fight ignorance in our own circles of influence (friends, family, job etc) to move the needle and get the win. This poll (notice the methodology and who picks up the phone from unknown callers?) reflects just how important fighting lies is. People can't name a single Trump accomplishment that benefited actual people but give Trump credit for things that never happened.

Glad we know that we have to work and we have the time to work.

 

[moonman818]

It doesn’t help the media still treats Trump with kid’s gloves, while being overly critical of their counterparts on the other side.

Still allowing conservatives to constantly push lies, mostly unchecked is crazy.

 

[Belgium]

Dapper Don’s new cut looking fresh

 

[IATT]

 

[aepps20]

It doesn’t help the media still treats Trump with kid’s gloves, while being overly critical of their counterparts on the other side.

Still allowing conservatives to constantly push lies, mostly unchecked is crazy.

Because Trump was great for business. The media never had it better than when Trump was giving them material every day. They want him back because dysfunction is great for their business but terrible for us.

 

[mplsdunk]

Trump was actually right about news. Most of it is fake and trash. I’ll give him credit for that.

 

[DripNick]

 

[RustyShackleford]

I get he is trying to make the point that Israel is not being held accountable on the international stage

But that is a horrible comparison to make to drive home that point

 

[dmbrhs]

How convenient.

 

[dacomeup]

so imo when someone says it's not complicated. well it seems like the obvious conclusion then is Israelis are some uniquely immoral and genocidal group of people.

Is genocide ever complicated? I don’t think any genocides are complicated. So that conclusion just falls flat on its face to me

 

[dacomeup]

Was out in the streets of DC yesterday. Powerful.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Is genocide ever complicated? I don’t think any genocides are complicated. So that conclusion just falls flat on its face to me

a Zionist could pull the same card;
"is baby burning ever complicated? I don't think terrorism against civilians is complicated. so obviously what we are doing is justified"

again you can yell genocide or apartheid or whatever morally loaded term you want to use.

but I don't see why anyone who doesn't already agree with you is going to be persuaded by that.


if anything it just perpetuates the status quo.

 

[Nike Jordan]

Republicans have never been good for business.

 

[biggie62]

seems accurate

 

[RustyShackleford]

I think it is pretty simple to see what the Isareli government doing right now as collective punishment and realize that Bibi probably likes indiscriminately killing Palestinians. So yes genocide.

All these things are simple to describe. The treatment of Palestinians in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza is oppressive, cruel, bigoted, unjust, inhumane, and most of the time unnecessary.

It is not complicated to see the current set of things.

---

What is more complex is understanding how we got to this point. These simple stories of colonization that I hear at best serve as a hand wave and at worst, have a touch of antisemitism embedded in them.

It serves to ignore history to act like Isareli Jews, and Jews generally are uniquely evil forces. Using their money and influence just to kill Palestinians

What is transpiring is clearly ****** up, and should stop, but what lead to the current state of affairs is a long winding road that has led to enough (not even the majority) of people in the region turning to, or turning a blind eye to, violence because they feel it is necessary for their own personal safety.

This is happening on both sides of the conflict. But Isareli is the power, military force, and the US behind it, so they can inflict more harm.

The people who want peace on both sides have been marginalized. And again, because of the power dynamics, happening in Israel has massive consequences for innocent people, especially Palestinians.

---

If someone wants to ignore history, and just focus on the present, fine.

The current state of affairs is the Isareli government is indiscriminately killing Palestinian civilians in a murderous, futile, and frankly counterproductive attempt to stomp out Hamas.

But if the past doesn't matter, and only the present does, what about the future?

Because it seems to me the issues don't stop at a ceasefire

---

If we should truly care about the Palestinian people when a ceasefire is not enough.

Clearly, those supporting Palestinians feel that way.

So at some point, there will need to be a discussion about what people want next.

Those solutions will need to involve addressing the concerns of not only the Palestinian people but the Isareli people as well.

And, if the solutions are Israel no longer exists as a state, or the US flipping its alliance and funding Palestine, and trying to cripple Israel economically, repeating Hamas talking points, then guess what..... It will only help entrench the status quo further.

---

So yeah, people have a right to be upset, to call for a ceasefire, to point out how morally reprehensible the status quo is, to call out the Isareli government and its backers for their actions, support innocent Palestinians, and demand the US alter some of its positions.

But at some point, the discussions need to go beyond those things.

Because no matter how simple it is to call out what is happening now, no matter how important it is (which it is)

It doesn't make the underlying issues producing these outcomes (and blocking a lasting peace to take hold) any less complex to fix.

 

[IATT]

 

[ballinsam23]

It's clear both sides are willing to die for the land. Neither side is leaving. Religion is the backbone here.

Politically, the leadership on both sides is too far gone to have any dialogue.

Bibi is a power hungry extremist, who won't get reelected and seems to not care about any war crimes. Hamas is a terrorist group that has its strings pulled by Iran and no one trusts Iran.

 

[yobyellav]

Hopefully this is a wakeup call to our side that this election will be close. I've said it many times in here but WE have to fight ignorance in our own circles of influence (friends, family, job etc) to move the needle and get the win. This poll (notice the methodology and who picks up the phone from unknown callers?) reflects just how important fighting lies is. People can't name a single Trump accomplishment that benefited actual people but give Trump credit for things that never happened.

Glad we know that we have to work and we have the time to work.

Hard when you show them Republicans wanting to cut programs that reduce homelessness, food insecurity, and prevent hospitals from closing and they show you a twitter post. Too many people vote against their own interests in an effort to prove they're "free thinkers" that do their "own research."

 

[yobyellav]

How convenient.

"Die with the lie."

-some will smith movie

 

[aepps20]

Hard when you show them Republicans wanting to cut programs that reduce homelessness, food insecurity, and prevent hospitals from closing and they show you a twitter post. Too many people vote against their own interests in an effort to prove they're "free thinkers" that do their "own research."

It definitely isn’t easy and I agree. The problem is that if we don’t push back this nonsense goes unchallenged and unchecked. I wish us confronting people would get us the results every time but if we don’t try they will impact others with their nonsense.

 

[kdawg]

It doesn’t help the media still treats Trump with kid’s gloves, while being overly critical of their counterparts on the other side.

“Kid’s gloves” works on a number of levels when discussing Trump.

 

[IATT]

 

[Public Enemy]

This next 366 days man. God help us all.

 

[05fordgt]

So, no actual plan for governing whatsoever?!! Got it! And when he does NOTHING and things start falling apart, I sure hope his base realizes how much of a POS he really is (probably not). God help us all is right Public Enemy

 

[osh kosh bosh]

‘Nobody’s hands are clean’: Obama urges reflection amid Israel-Hamas conflict

Reflecting on his presidency, Obama posed the question, “Well, was there something else I could have done?”

www.politico.com

I think this is a fair take. And better than the stuff other presidents have said.

The news cycle is going to be nasty after this podcast drops

Israel-supporting liberals gonna handwave it

Palestinian-supporting progressives gonna be pissed at him for not calling for a ceasefire (if he doesn't) and calling Obama a war criminal

Right-wing media gonna say Obama is siding with Hamas

Obama presidency as it relates to Israel imo underscores what a tough and complex spot Biden is in.

Obama was far tougher and more publicly critical of Israel than any US president. and what did it get him?

- The West Bank settlements only accelerated.
- American Zionists mobilized against him.
- Bibi tried his best to polarize the issue and make it as politically painful as possible.
- Support for Isreal in the American electorate remains high.
- Conditions for Palestinians did not improve.


Obama's analysis I think is correct, and for his troubles from what I can tell;

he's seen as pro Hamas equivocator on the right,
and a squish on Genocide by the far left.

damned if you do damned if you don't.

soi in light of all that im sympathetic to the idea that remaining supportive of Israel gives you some influence over a bad outcome
where as I think repudiating them gives you zero influence.