***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

Isn't this disagreement a bit one-sided?

There have been drone and missile attacks by Houthis on ships that may or may not be related to Israel since October. What's the US president to do? What about all the other Mediterranean countries that rely on this route? Should they not intervene? Especially after having warned the Houthis multiple times?

There is a major free-rider problem in international trade because the US Naval power is used to facilitate/protect international trade

So people see this, read the Houthi's BS, and think this is just about the US needlessly using its war machine to support Israel

In reality, the US would be pushed to do such a thing by its allies not matter what else was going on.

Messing with Cargo ships will always get met with a military response.

Like mans didn't see Captain Phillips?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Like I said from the jump

If someone is Palestinian, Palestinian American, or is upset about the treatment of the Palestinian people they can't bring themselves to vote for Joe Biden in 2024.

Cool, fine. That's your decision.

But if you make hot takes to defend that decision, or to downplay the consequences of Biden not winning, then I won't respect that.

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

I think if the conflict becomes so large it disrupts global trade on a large scale, or oil supply, then yes that would be inflationary.

But that is how not your argument reads.

It sounds like you are saying Biden's stance on Gaza is related to keeping inflation down in order to maintain votes come November

Which to me makes no sense to me.

Biden had a lot of motivations. And, unlike many on this thread, I actually believe him to be a fairly moral and decent person. I’m sure he’s greatly motivated to reduce human misery in the region.

My point was if you simply frame his choices in a cynical political light (again, politics thread), the reality is whatever votes he’s losing in terms of “progressive” performative concern trolling is dwarfed by what he stands to lose if “my gas is $6 a gallon”.

As you know, If the US suddenly pursued an isolationist stance. It’s not like Israel would ignore the idiots in Yemen. And we’ve seen exactly the kind of self-restraint Bibi has. I think the US sending a few targeted attacks to destroy Houthi infrastructure (if we were after lives, we wouldn’t have warned them) is far less likely to result in conflict broadening to all out regional war. I think you’d agree with that?

Look, again I’m not trying to get into Joe’s head. But I’d bet dinner at a good restaurant that there’s at least one person on his political staff who is thinking about the economic impact of regional conflict in political terms.

 

[Armada]

Serious question, what do your friends prefer Biden to do? I am not asking to be coy but sincerely curious

I think people have to realize that American voters do not care about anything that happens outside of our borders regarding foreign policy, full stop. This red sea business, this Israel Palestine conflct is so minute in comparison (politically) to a litany of domestic issue in the grand scheme of the election. Even the Ukraine war is a nothing burger compared to Roe v Wade, inflation and other items this year.

They would like the for the support of the Israeli government and standing by them to end to just be on the right side of history regarding what’s happening to Palestinian people and what’s been happening to them. BUT don’t get it twisted they are not fools and know this is a unrealistic expectations given all you just said about how much people in this country don’t care of what goes on outside its borders at times and on top of that how baked in support of the Israelis government is to varying degrees in both parties right now. But just because it’s unrealistic and even knowing that I won’t and can’t fault anyone for still being upset and hurt and feeling defeated because at the end of the day tomorrow they don’t know if they try to call someone on phone tomorrow morning they are going to pick up or be given some bad news by another family member or just be in pain reading headlines everyday of Palestinian lives being lost and the general callousness some have towards the situation

 

[Brownstone]

They would like the for the support of the Israeli government went and standing by them to end to just be on the right side of history regarding what’s happening to Palestinian people and what’s been happening to them. BUT don’t get it twisted they are not fools and know this is a unrealistic expectations given all you just said about how much people in this country don’t care of what goes on outside its borders at times and on top of that how baked in support of the Israelis government is to varying degrees in both parties right now. But just because it’s unrealistic and even knowing that I won’t and can’t fault anyone for still being upset and hurt and feeling defeated because at the end of the day tomorrow they don’t know if they try to call someone on phone tomorrow morning they are going to pick up or be given some bad news by another family member or just be in pain reading headlines everyday of Palestinian lives being lost and the general callousness some have towards the situation

I appreciate your sincere response and agree with everything you just said

Truth is, I would say that your friends disappointment is misplaced. Truth told, every president past would have handled the conflict the same way. It isn't really Biden they should be saddened by, it is the U.S. It's a seemingly meaningless distinction, but blaming Biden imo insinuates a vote elsewhere which is unfair given that literally every President ever would have reacted the exact same way- Trump included.

 

[RustyShackleford]

The thing is, I think Obama probably would have handled Bibi differently.

I think he would be calling for a ceasefire.

And I don't think it wouldn't make a real difference because Bibi is a piece of ****.

And taking the Obama route might made Bibi even less receptive of advice to dial it back at little.

 

[Armada]

I appreciate your sincere response and agree with everything you just said

Truth is, I would say that your friends disappointment is misplaced. Truth told, every president past would have handled the conflict the same way. It isn't really Biden they should be saddened by, it is the U.S. It's a seemingly meaningless distinction, but blaming Biden imo insinuates a vote elsewhere which is unfair given that literally every President ever would have reacted the exact same way- Trump included.

And I’d say they and myself fully understand that it’s a America issue not just a Biden issue, this country has been in the wrong side of history regarding its support of the Israeli government for a long time. But from what I’ve gathered from their perspective in all honesty that’s not gonna stop the pain or anger man and I get it if it was me I’d be furious at the country and whoever was currently in charge if it was me waking up everyday worried about the lives of my family and people while people just talk about it as if it’s just some academic issue. I just think people really need to extent grace in times like this people are hurting.

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

The thing is, I think Obama probably would have handled Bibi differently.

I think he would be calling for a ceasefire.

And I don't think it wouldn't make a real difference because Bibi is a piece of ****.

And taking the Obama route might made Bibi even less receptive of advice to dial it back at little.

Unironically, being president is hard. I don’t envy them for having to make these decisions.

And, of course, the difficulty and importance of the job should make November a no-brainer…

 

[Armada]

The thing is, I think Obama probably would have handled Bibi differently.

I think he would be calling for a ceasefire.

And I don't think it wouldn't make a real difference because Bibi is a piece of ****.

And taking the Obama route might made Bibi even less receptive of advice to dial it back at little.

This is true and a completely fair point. But I do believe their are some Palestinians and Palestinian Americans would at least appreciate that to varying degrees I’m sure depends on the individual I don’t wanna go too far in speaking for other people.

But I know if it was me I’d appreciate it if Biden at least did that publicly and loudly. Yes it would not stop Bibi but drawing a line in the sand and showing we won’t just stand by an ally just cause they an ally no matter what that matters

 

[gry60]

In reality, the US would be pushed to do such a thing by its allies not matter what else was going on.

Folks forget that the US Navy was also involved in fighting Somali piracy for this very reason.

Countries have contracts: trade/defense/research/education agreements, and this is what constitute the basis of international relations.

Like I said from the jump

If someone is Palestinian, Palestinian American, or is upset about the treatment of the Palestinian people they can't bring themselves to vote for Joe Biden in 2024.

Cool, fine. That's your decision.

But if you make hot takes to defend that decision, or to downplay the consequences of Biden not winning, then I won't respect that.

The great irony of the situation is, if they want the US to be held accountable to the international community (and not just her allies), they have to vote for candidates and legislators who are willing to ratify the Rome Statute.

And it won't be Trump, DeSantis, or Nikki Haley.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

no they aren’t

yes. they. can. this isn't ukraine.

this is the problem with so many pro Palestinian people I speak with, you've been convinced
(by people who want joe biden to lose)

that joe biden and the US gov has way more control and influence then they actually do.

they established the country, defeated all the arab nations that declared war against them, without support from the west. evading british sanctions, smuggling guns from Czechoslovakia.

if they did all that without western support, they can certainly do it now as a VERY wealthy nuclear armed country. plenty of poorer nations conduct wars against ethnic minorites, with no help from the USA.

Isreal likes and wants US support. but they don't need it.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This is true and a completely fair point. But I do believe their are some Palestinians and Palestinian Americans would at least appreciate that to varying degrees I’m sure depends on the individual I don’t wanna go too far in speaking for other people.

But I know if it was me I’d appreciate it if Biden at least did that publicly and loudly. Yes it would not stop Bibi but drawing a line in the sand and showing we won’t just stand by an ally just cause they an ally no matter what that matters

do you care about what it looks like or how many lives actually get saved?

Obama was way tougher on Israel than any US president..


..what did it get him?

 

[boba85]

Ok cool

I read books and articles and do research to stay informed and to gain proper context

Deal with it

If your *** is too lazy to be an informed adult, yet you still want to comment, expect someone might disagree sometimes

Whatever privilege you expect on NT, I don't have to respect it either. You can go outside and get it.

Mind sharing the knowledge
What books have u read
What articles
What research

 

[boba85]

now you’re just trolling.

And he’s horrible at it

 

[RustyShackleford]

That isn’t want happened to that guy nawghty
Even though you’ve been told numerous times
Also is that what ur gonna say
Anytime u disagree with me
Thread suppose to be a discussion
But anytime u don’t agree with someone
U insult them
With pathetic quips
Without even saying much
Someone says they don’t like Biden
U damn near jump form their throats
also if ur gonna throw insults
At least be clever

What about the time you got banned for harassing another poster by telling him your "potna" slept with his girlfriend, over and over and over?

You can't lie about that one, because I was in that thread.

Like I said, you can't talk.

I'm not gonna entertain your ******** act to avoid getting clipped again

So please, do everyone a favor and shut up

 

[boba85]

Like I said from the jump

If someone is Palestinian, Palestinian American, or is upset about the treatment of the Palestinian people they can't bring themselves to vote for Joe Biden in 2024.

Cool, fine. That's your decision.

But if you make hot takes to defend that decision, or to downplay the consequences of Biden not winning, then I won't respect that.

I can agree with everything here

 

[Armada]

do you care about what it looks like or how many lives actually get saved?

Obama was way tougher on Israel than any US president..


..what did it get him?

I do care deeply and I get what you’re saying being tough on Israel might not save lives that much is clear but as far as history remembers this moment that stuff does matter

 

[boba85]

What about the time you got banned for harassing another poster by telling him your "potna" slept with his girlfriend, over and over and over?

You can't lie about that one, because I was in that thread.

Like I said, you can't talk.

I'm not gonna entertain your bull**** act to avoid getting clipped again

So please, do everyone a favor and shut up

What does any of that have to do with the topic at hand
I appreciate when u can just be real
And give ur opinion
Without tryna insult someone
Or give hot takes
I seriously think ur knowledgeable
And enjoy hearing ur point of view on some topics
Cause I usually always agree with u
But u have a habit
Of always downplaying someone else’s opinion
Also a suspension and ban are different things
But stay blessed

 

[RustyShackleford]

What does any of that have to do with the topic at hand
I appreciate when u can just be real
And give ur opinion
Without tryna insult someone
Or give hot takes
I seriously think ur knowledgeable
And enjoy hearing ur point of view on some topics
Cause I usually always agree with u
But u have a habit
Of always downplaying someone else’s opinion
Also a suspension and ban are different things
But stay blessed

Nawghty I am not listening to this lecture by someone like you

As soon as you think you got the green light, you gonna be wildin and disrespecting people on here

So you are wasting your time

If you have a problem, report me. Or @ Meth.

 

[boba85]

Nawghty I am not listening to this lecture by someone like you

As soon as you think you got the greenlight, you gonna be wildin and disrespecting people on here

So you are wasting you time

lol someone like me???
U don’t even know me
U keep calling me this nawghty person
Anyways……….
u talking bout me???
U been the one disrespecting everyone
Who has an opinion
That doesn’t align with urs
Acting all high and mighty
But go ahead throw rocks and hide ur hand
I hope u have a great rest of ur day
And an even better weekend

 

[RustyShackleford]

lol someone like me???
U don’t even know me
U keep calling me this nawghty person
Anyways……….
u talking bout me???
U been the one disrespecting everyone
Who has an opinion
That doesn’t align with urs
Acting all high and mighty
But go ahead throw rocks and hide ur hand
I hope u have a great rest of ur day
And an even better weekend

Report me next time then

 

[05fordgt]

That isn’t want happened to that guy nawghty
Even though you’ve been told numerous times
Also is that what ur gonna say
Anytime u disagree with me
Thread suppose to be a discussion
But anytime u don’t agree with someone
U insult them
With pathetic quips
Without even saying much
Someone says they don’t like Biden
U damn near jump form their throats
also if ur gonna throw insults
At least be clever

Dude, just stop lying!! He knows you by former screen name. Hell, you told me your old name in a PM (I kept it private but can't anymore, because you are NOT honest)!! Just STOP!!

Oh and you WERE banned. That's what you told me in the PM!

 

[boba85]

Report me next time then

U got it confused
bruh I don’t even care
Do whatever u want
Peace and love

 

[RustyShackleford]

Dude, just stop lying!! He knows you by former screen name. Hell, you told me your old name in a PM (I kept it private but can't anymore, because you are NOT honest)!! Just STOP!!

 

[IATT]