***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[RustyShackleford]

[

Dude you move the goal post on me every time we have a back and forth. Go read our last couple of exchanges, you can't even keep your talking points straight most of the time. I can write essay's and they will be dismissed. So please, you can throw weak "shill" shade out but you just upset that I disagree with you.

And have you ever been to Green Party events? So a couple black people support Stein that changes the overwhelming make up of the Green Party, which are white liberals. And the feuds within the Green Party are no secret.

And yes, Jill Stein is shallow on specifics. She can't even point to research like many Dems do, and instead of talking about the many systemic issues facing minorities, she most of the time she just talks about movements that are known at the time. She strong language doesn't mean she understands the issues.

You shade him a lot, but you and Ninja use very similar debating techniques.

Actually I was intrigued by her VP pick... Ajamu Baraka




But I know.. the Democratic Party stance on 3rd parties are...

'throw away vote'

'might as vote for Trump'

what else?

I never brought any of those point to you so I don't see the point in mentioning them, I made my position clear. And those points are real, look at 2000. Those Green Party voters where sure smart then too I guess.

If people want to vote Stein, fine, if people want to insult Hillary supporters, fine. But you can't have it both ways, that Stein's shortcoming must never be discusses, especially by people voting for HRC. Stein is a bad candidate, period.

 

[sundoobie]

Stein is a bad candidate but TRUMP and HILLARY are just so much better, aren't they?

 

[EddieDoyers]

https://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster
Pretty good article by the department of labor

 

[noskey]

A minimum wage job is not supposed to be a permanent job. It's just how you support yourself until you get a better job, go through school, etc

At least that's what it supposed to be

You raise it that high and ppl just never going to be content to move on.

Not to mention that employers will just react and either create more layoffs and/or pass the extra cost to consumers.

Its just stupid all around.

Oregon's working on a system like this. Within the next few years, the 2 largest metro areas will have $15 min wage, the next tier of economic size will have like $14 I think, and the final tier will have a $12.50 min wage or something. My numbers are probably wrong because I'm not taking the 2 minutes to look it up, but a higher min wage is more than necessary at this point in large metro areas. I make a decent amount of money, nothing great or worth bragging about, but I cant even afford a ******* one-bedroom apartment in Portland proper. How do you expect those making $12 and supporting families to do so? Employers aren't going to slash jobs, this is brought up every time a min wage increase is debated. And prices for products won't go up anything noteworthy. If record corporate profit margins might be reduced to barely less than record margins, so be it.

I'm going to be an a-hole right now and say that people making minimum wage shouldn't be starting families in general
However, the current minimum wage isn't enough for a young person starting his life off living in a major city by him or herself.

People shouldn't do a lot of things that are counterintuitive to their financial wellbeing. But they still do. Want people to have upward mobility and not have to rely on minimum wage? Make education easier to obtain. It's easy to say people should only be working minimum wage to get by early on in life, but if they aren't afforded the ability to obtain education or legitimate job training, how can they etch out a living? It's selfish to say "don't start a family" like only well off people should. Give the worst off a chance to improve their lives, starting with giving them the ability to simply afford to live.

 

[ninjahood]

A minimum wage job is not supposed to be a permanent job. It's just how you support yourself until you get a better job, go through school, etc

At least that's what it supposed to be

You raise it that high and ppl just never going to be content to move on.

Not to mention that employers will just react and either create more layoffs and/or pass the extra cost to consumers.

Its just stupid all around.

not to mention create bots faster...


mirroring vast European unemployment will teach em though...

 

[RustyShackleford]

While I know it's not the case, people shouldn't be starting families with minimum wage jobs. It should be just enough for you to support yourself, put yourself through school, hustle to get that better job, etc.

Yea I understand the concept of inflation. So you're saying the dollar is that low now that 15 is fair? 15 is a lot.

-I wasn't trying to talk down on you on the inflation people, you where making the point of people saying on minimum wage jobs all their lives, so I found it necessary to say that they will be getting a pay cut through inflation every year. So on a base level, things won't always be "wavy"

-I just said I don't support $15 everywhere.

In NYC, LA, San Fran, yes, if local and state government believe their economies can support it, then hell yes I support that. But at a Federal level I support something lower, maybe claiming to $12, and tying it to inflation.

And people make mistakes, having a kid at the wrong time probably forces folk to take these kind of jobs to make it by, folk not really hoping on minimum wage and thinking "lemme start a family". The economy really needs to give the working poor ways to make up for their mistakes. Because we sure do the same for corporation and the rich.

 

[noskey]

Stein is a bad candidate but TRUMP and HILLARY are just so much better, aren't they?

Hillary is.

 

[deleted]

Stein is a bad candidate but TRUMP and HILLARY are just so much better, aren't they?

Maybe they're all varying degrees of bad?

 

[MVP]

This cycle would have been the PERFECT time for a viable third party candidate to step up

Kind of makes you wonder how that "Bernie is gonna run third party" situation would have played out if it happened

Drumpf would be president on Tuesday night

 

[RustyShackleford]

A minimum wage job is not supposed to be a permanent job. It's just how you support yourself until you get a better job, go through school, etc

At least that's what it supposed to be

You raise it that high and ppl just never going to be content to move on.

Not to mention that employers will just react and either create more layoffs and/or pass the extra cost to consumers.

Its just stupid all around.

not to mention create bots faster...


mirroring vast European unemployment will teach em though...

Good luck in your future economic endeavors, Mr. Austerity

https://www.wired.com/2016/10/ubers-self-driving-truck-makes-first-delivery-50000-beers/

 

[sundoobie]

Hillary is.

In what way? Convince me.

 

[MVP]

While I know it's not the case, people shouldn't be starting families with minimum wage jobs. It should be just enough for you to support yourself, put yourself through school, hustle to get that better job, etc.

Yea I understand the concept of inflation. So you're saying the dollar is that low now that 15 is fair? 15 is a lot.

15 is still barely a minimum livable wage, especially in some of the higher cost of living stays like here in California. They're are people working 60+ hrs a week barely getting by still living from paycheck to paycheck. It needs to be higher, but the cost of goods will go up a bit as well.

 

[noskey]

A minimum wage job is not supposed to be a permanent job. It's just how you support yourself until you get a better job, go through school, etc

At least that's what it supposed to be

You raise it that high and ppl just never going to be content to move on.

Not to mention that employers will just react and either create more layoffs and/or pass the extra cost to consumers.

Its just stupid all around.

not to mention create bots faster...


mirroring vast European unemployment will teach em though...

I'm gonna start calling you Ninjasnow, because you don't know ****.

 

[EddieDoyers]

A minimum wage job is not supposed to be a permanent job. It's just how you support yourself until you get a better job, go through school, etc

At least that's what it supposed to be

You raise it that high and ppl just never going to be content to move on.

Not to mention that employers will just react and either create more layoffs and/or pass the extra cost to consumers.

Its just stupid all around.

Oregon's working on a system like this. Within the next few years, the 2 largest metro areas will have $15 min wage, the next tier of economic size will have like $14 I think, and the final tier will have a $12.50 min wage or something. My numbers are probably wrong because I'm not taking the 2 minutes to look it up, but a higher min wage is more than necessary at this point in large metro areas. I make a decent amount of money, nothing great or worth bragging about, but I cant even afford a ******* one-bedroom apartment in Portland proper. How do you expect those making $12 and supporting families to do so? Employers aren't going to slash jobs, this is brought up every time a min wage increase is debated. And prices for products won't go up anything noteworthy. If record corporate profit margins might be reduced to barely less than record margins, so be it.

I'm going to be an a-hole right now and say that people making minimum wage shouldn't be starting families in general
However, the current minimum wage isn't enough for a young person starting his life off living in a major city by him or herself.

People shouldn't do a lot of things that are counterintuitive to their financial wellbeing. But they still do. Want people to have upward mobility and not have to rely on minimum wage? Make education easier to obtain. It's easy to say people should only be working minimum wage to get by early on in life, but if they aren't afforded the ability to obtain education or legitimate job training, how can they etch out a living? It's selfish to say "don't start a family" like only well off people should. Give the worst off a chance to improve their lives, starting with giving them the ability to simply afford to live.

It's quite selfish to bring kids into a poverty stricken lifestyle too just saying. There needs to be smarter family planning instead.
That's just my personal take on it

On an economics standpoint though, the US does need to raise the minimum wage. It's a bit too low in terms of trying to create growth.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Stein is a bad candidate but TRUMP and HILLARY are just so much better, aren't they?

Stein is better than Trump

Hillary is much better than Stein.

I guess we have reach the point in the argument where it just becomes strawmans

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

A minimum wage job is not supposed to be a permanent job. It's just how you support yourself until you get a better job, go through school, etc

At least that's what it supposed to be

You raise it that high and ppl just never going to be content to move on.

Not to mention that employers will just react and either create more layoffs and/or pass the extra cost to consumers.

Its just stupid all around.

theres so much more too it though

sure in theory a minimum wage job shouldnt be permanent and such, but you have to look at the problems with the working poor that keep them at that level. as much as a lot of people would like to be able to say that you can simply work your way out of poverty its so much more complicated than that.

 

[noskey]

Hillary is.

In what way? Convince me.

Social policies; not rolling back civil rights. Stability in the economy. Respect across the world.

 

[whywesteppin]

Minimum wage wouldn't be as bad if we instituted universal health care and some other social programs.

It's a complex problem and we need to take everything into account. First, in this modern world, not everyone can have a meaningful job that the economy will pay a living wage to. That's the core problem. The greeter at Wal-Mart is not really worth more than $5/hour to anyone... Or the guy with the manufacturing job who can be replaced by a robot. Or the cab driver. etc.

But more and more, we will need fewer and fewer people to do all the work, and there's only going to be so many jobs left in the service industry for everyone else. So I think we need to recognize that this disconnect will exist. The solution I propose is a social program that covers decent living for everyone, even if they're not working a job worth $25/hour. Second, that we provide jobs, even if economically they're not really worth that much, because it's better for people to be working than not working, regardless of the wage.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Hillary is.

In what way? Convince me.

This meme is so perfect for Stein, no specifics so she sounds great.

 

[noskey]

A minimum wage job is not supposed to be a permanent job. It's just how you support yourself until you get a better job, go through school, etc

At least that's what it supposed to be

You raise it that high and ppl just never going to be content to move on.

Not to mention that employers will just react and either create more layoffs and/or pass the extra cost to consumers.

Its just stupid all around.

Oregon's working on a system like this. Within the next few years, the 2 largest metro areas will have $15 min wage, the next tier of economic size will have like $14 I think, and the final tier will have a $12.50 min wage or something. My numbers are probably wrong because I'm not taking the 2 minutes to look it up, but a higher min wage is more than necessary at this point in large metro areas. I make a decent amount of money, nothing great or worth bragging about, but I cant even afford a ******* one-bedroom apartment in Portland proper. How do you expect those making $12 and supporting families to do so? Employers aren't going to slash jobs, this is brought up every time a min wage increase is debated. And prices for products won't go up anything noteworthy. If record corporate profit margins might be reduced to barely less than record margins, so be it.

I'm going to be an a-hole right now and say that people making minimum wage shouldn't be starting families in general
However, the current minimum wage isn't enough for a young person starting his life off living in a major city by him or herself.

People shouldn't do a lot of things that are counterintuitive to their financial wellbeing. But they still do. Want people to have upward mobility and not have to rely on minimum wage? Make education easier to obtain. It's easy to say people should only be working minimum wage to get by early on in life, but if they aren't afforded the ability to obtain education or legitimate job training, how can they etch out a living? It's selfish to say "don't start a family" like only well off people should. Give the worst off a chance to improve their lives, starting with giving them the ability to simply afford to live.

It's quite selfish to bring kids into a poverty stricken lifestyle too just saying. There needs to be smarter family planning instead.
That's just my personal take on it

On an economics standpoint though, the US does need to raise the minimum wage. It's a bit too low in terms of trying to create growth.

I agree with you. It all ties back to education. We (the US) needs to overhaul education funding from preschool through college and actually invest in education. Like I know not everyone can get a college degree and be a white collar professional, but those who wish to go to work right after high school should have the ability to learn job skills and either work in that field while learning or something. People shouldn't be trapped in poverty before they're given and chance.

 

[deleted]

What is the ninjahood opinion on Stein and Johnson?

I don't think I've ever seen him mention them

 

[osh kosh bosh]

A minimum wage job is not supposed to be a permanent job. It's just how you support yourself until you get a better job, go through school, etc

At least that's what it supposed to be

You raise it that high and ppl just never going to be content to move on.

Not to mention that employers will just react and either create more layoffs and/or pass the extra cost to consumers.

Its just stupid all around.

Nah man.

Fact of the matter is America is mature economy, manufacturing jobs are gone and they are never coming back. Low skill workers need a way into the middle class.

there aren't going to be any new jobs that low skill workers can do, and afford a house and a decent middle class life.



We have to find a way to make jobs in the service economy good jobs...and chancing the minimum wage is a start.

 

[sundoobie]

This meme is so perfect for Stein, no specifics so she sounds great.

It would be more specific if Jill actually received that Republican/Democrat campaign money!

Oh yeah you need money to run an effective campaign!

3.5 million vs 500 million

 

[RustyShackleford]

The FBI, in a couple weeks, and played themselves every which way:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/03/fbi-leaks-hillary-clinton-james-comey-donald-trump

These guys

 

[RIP sleazyy]

She could release specifics herself. I honestly have never seen deep specifics from her.

She looks good on paper but something is off about her. Besides the anti vacc and wifi stuff.

The FBI, in a couple weeks, and played themselves every which way:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/03/fbi-leaks-hillary-clinton-james-comey-donald-trump

These guys

Wonder if any of those WS they said infiltrated the police infiltrated the FBI too [emoji]128064[/emoji]