***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[worldbeefreeg]

Jewish population in Israel actually declined in the 1920's because Zionism was not popular (communism on the other-hand was). They were a single digit percent of the population up until the 1930's when European antisemitism spiked with the rise of the Nazi Germany. My ancestors spent hundreds of years in the pale of settlement, spoke Yiddish, and the concept of returning to Israel was not something that existed at all. We were European (ashkenazi's at least) and still are.

In terms of Misrahi, I'm sure they faced some forms of discrimination in middle eastern countries but for the most part until Zionist's came along, they lived peaceful existence. It wasn't until Zionist started agitating for a separate Jewish state in Palestine that antisemitism spun off the rails there.

Also, while not totally prescribed to them, the fact is Israel military intelligence sparked a lot of the fear and antisemtisim in those countries through false flags operations such as the Lavon affair (that's the only such incident they admit to fabricating but if they did that, are we to so naive to believe that was the only time they used a tactic of the such?)

It seems like either your ignorant to the facts of Israel's founding, willingly naive or just find it to painful to accept the truth that Jews are not just permanent victims of history and have a sordid history, some good , some bad but we were intimately involved in pretty much most facets of European history and that comes with baggage for any group historically. Terrorism didn't start on 10/7, it started with the Stern Gang, Haganah and the Irgun and it has continued till today to the point the term is meaningless.

I don't think anyone deserves peace it's something usually you gain through treating others fairly, something Israel doesn't seem to believe in, be it their treatment of Palestinians or even African migrants (look into the racism and vitriol they face within Israel). 10/7 was a chance for Israel to actually gain long-lasting peace if they had turned their cheek and tried to negotiate. At the end of the day, they have nukes and Hamas isn't or never will be a threat to their existence. Instead they decided to act biblically and basically try to crush their existence.

It's going to be a rough time for Jews in America if they continually stand by a country going forward that shows such little regard for other well-fair.

 

[aepps20]

These consultants have been giving the Harris campaign bad advice from the beginning. I remember reading an article a couple months back where consultants told her to stop calling Trump and Vance weird (despite it being effective messaging that resonated with voters).

I think some of these candidates would rather look good losing than when. I genuinely think they don't understand how to connect with voters.

Are you volunteering or reaching out to your local DNC to share the feedback? They seem pretty open to ideas. This election isn't one where we can sit on the sidelines and just vote. We have to do more.

 

[trappedintime]

The fact people think the VICE PRESIDENT can just enact policies despite what the President or Congress want to do is mind blowing.

Thats like asking your local Popeyes manager why they can’t just make new menu items. It don’t work like that

These were the kids that were asleep or disruptive during govt class and probably also failed it.

And what I’ve found with kids now is that it’s much worse than when I was in those classes a quarter century ago now. They just pass kids even if they fail. So there’s zero accountability for not knowing anything about the civics process today.

Then you shove garbage social media in front of these ignorant people and they think they have a clue. It’s like giving them a vehicle and they have no idea how to drive. We should be glad when these idiots don’t vote at the end of the day. It’s far better than a non-driver getting behind the wheel.

 

[ballinsam23]

I'm Sephardic (Mizrahi) so our experience is different

Babylonians tried to eliminate us.
Romans tried to eliminate us.
First crusade. Second crusade.
Nazis tried to eliminate us.
Communist Russia tried to eliminate us.
Every known terrorist group in the middle east tries to eliminate us.

"In terms of Misrahi, I'm sure they faced some forms of discrimination in middle eastern countries but for the most part until Zionist's came along, they lived peaceful existence. It wasn't until Zionist started agitating for a separate Jewish state in Palestine that antisemitism spun off the rails there."

To sit there and type this is wild.

Guess what if antisemitism continues to rise here where its unlivable, you're affected too.

Just like we've been getting displaced since our origins, I can guarantee you your family will move to Israel if it gets to that point too. Ask them, good shabbat convo.

 

[smedroc]

I'm sending everything with x100 leverage. No stop loss.

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Give me the profound evidence of Antisemitism in the middle east pre-1920's? Why did Israel's Jewish population in the 1920's (when their population was in the single digits of all of Palestine)? Why did Israel resort to false flag terrorism with the Baghdad bombings of 1950-1951 and the Lavon affair?

And my family aren't religious and everyone pretty much has married out including myself. I'm not very close to my extended family, but given our leftist nature, I'd guess a died-in-the-wool zionist doesn't exist amongst us. I also know I'm in the minority but not an insignificant minority with my views.

I'm American, my wife is Dominican, and there is no world where I would move to Israel. I'd happily move to a number of countries but having been on birthright (LOL) there is no place in my travels that I experienced such racism and vitriol in regard to others and even for my own views.

The president of Mexico is now Jewish! But that doesn't count since she's not a raging zionist. You want people to hate jews but they don't. The whole "antisemitism is off-the-charts" didn't start until 10/7 and has nothing to do with anything besides providing cover for any anti-israel views.

Once again, you can assimilate like you mostly have, and never have to worry about antisemitism. Or you can move and continuing carry the water another country's ills and feel ostracized.

German's once had a proud national idenity in this country. That slowly disappeared. I wonder why? Anti-German sentiment or was there another reason that drove it.

 

[MakeNTGreatAgain]

Give me the profound evidence of Antisemitism in the middle east pre-1920's? Why did Israel's Jewish population in the 1920's (when their population was in the single digits of all of Palestine)? Why did Israel resort to false flag terrorism with the Baghdad bombings of 1950-1951 and the Lavon affair?

And my family aren't religious and everyone pretty much has married out including myself. I'm not very close to my extended family, but given our leftist nature, I'd guess a died-in-the-wool zionist doesn't exist amongst us. I also know I'm in the minority but not an insignificant minority with my views.

I'm American, my wife is Dominican, and there is no world where I would move to Israel. I'd happily move to a number of countries but having been on birthright (LOL) there is no place in my travels that I experienced such racism and vitriol in regard to others and even for my own views.

The president of Mexico is now Jewish! But that doesn't count since she's not a raging zionist. You want people to hate jews but they don't. The whole "antisemitism is off-the-charts" didn't start until 10/7 and has nothing to do with anything besides providing cover for any anti-israel views.

Once again, you can assimilate like you mostly have, and never have to worry about antisemitism. Or you can move and continuing carry the water another country's ills and feel ostracized.

German's once had a proud national idenity in this country. That slowly disappeared. I wonder why? Anti-German sentiment or was there another reason that drove it.

nothing but facts bein spoken

 

[trappedintime]

Great country we got here

 

[ballinsam23]

Just look up the Jewish diaspora.

Jews being able to live peacefully in Israel shouldn't be about some political left vs. right bs. There are plenty of leftist zionists. Half of Israel actually.

You assimilated as you mentioned. Your kids are no longer Jewish. I doubt they'd identify as one since your family assimilated as well.

Nothing against it ofcourse, I just dont think there's a point of continuing this convo. The people who feel strongly about this topic, on more than a textbook level, on both sides, have deep routes either tied to their culture (past and future), the middle east, or their religion.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[Air Champa]

Harris is finally vowing to legalize weed. I'm not sure how much of a difference it'll make at this point.

 

[IATT]

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Just look up the Jewish diaspora.

Jews being able to live peacefully in Israel shouldn't be about some political left vs. right bs. There are plenty of leftist zionists. Half of Israel actually.

You assimilated as you mentioned. Your kids are no longer Jewish. I doubt they'd identify as one since your family assimilated as well.

Nothing against it ofcourse, I just dont think there's a point of continuing this convo. The people who feel strongly about this topic, on more than a textbook level, on both sides, have deep routes either tied to their culture (past and future), the middle east, or their religion.

I'm not ignorant about the Jewish diaspora. Fortunately for me, I don't let religion define whether or not I'm Jewish, just like the founder of Israel was an assimilated non-practicing member of the Austro-Hungarian empire.

I don't wish harm on anyone but last I looked Israel was bombing a tent city filled with hospital patients as of yesterday. Doesn't seem like a good way to build peace. You keep spinning the convo without making an argument or refuting any of the points I made. I provided evidence that the creation of Israel heightened tensions for Jew's in the middle east and you responded with talking about the Roman empire lol. I never said there wasn't antisemitism beforehand but it clearly heightened to another level since the creation of the country.

Zionism is also incompatible with being on the left especially now. Why do you think Israel is headed down the road it is where Ben Gvir and Smotrich are the future of the country. Building a country around a religious identity leans into conservative/traditional values ultimately and makes people intolerant of those who don't share those values (same goes for Islamic countries in the Middle East, I don't share fantasies of those place being extremely noble or tolerant). Being on the left doesn't mean being gay and smoking weed (Israeli left) it generally means liberation from current structures that oppress people.

Do you know what Israel's number one export is? Despite it's vaunted "tech" industry?

 

[trappedintime]

Glad the twitter bot doubled down on my efforts … immediately after I posted them

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I didn't use the word to mean random. I used it to mean "outside of logic." I don't know how "random" fits in my post.

No, those beliefs derive from a combination of the ideas they believe in, their experiences, their knowledge/education, the environment in which they grew up/live, and the people surrounding them. Nobody can quantify the extent to which these factors matter other than the voters themselves.

You are using irrational as way to say it's not worth appealing to them, that only makes sense if their beliefs are derived randomly.

It is irrational to believe in god, but it's still possible to appeal to religious voters. just because someone has some voting pattern you consider irrational doesn't make them beyond the reach of the democratic party.

The parties don't shape their values; they go to the parties that best represent (or are willing to accept) those values. That's why we have independent voters.

nah parties shape their beliefs to appeal to the electorate. if all of a sudden black people started voting for republicans, the democrats would eventually have to adjust.

A large majority of Black men continue to support the Democratic party and see themselves in its policies.

For the minority of voters we are talking about, what work is there to do? They already told us who they'd like (and wouldn't like) as president. What kind of messaging are you trying to craft? "with the Kamala child tax credit, you'll be able to afford more ammo"? Duh! They know this! They just don't want to have to defend Kamala's policies among their macho friends. You said it yourself, they're simple-minded...


That's a very interesting argument here, because I don't know how keeping capable women from power helps those men fulfill their own purpose, unless their purpose is in controlling how much achievements the women in their life can have. If so, that is a very insecure perspective and a representation of the zero-sum view of social dynamics that pervades the men's rights debate.

If you believe in this zero-sum view, I don't think the Democratic party can craft a compelling message for you. It's the same perspective that is the foundation of anti-immigration and xenophobic attitudes; none of this constitutes the core of the democratic platform.

this is just a strawman, believing that the democratic party is not particularly concerned with the issues men face,
doesn't mean you automatically think all women need to go back in the kitchen.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Just look up the Jewish diaspora.

Jews being able to live peacefully in Israel shouldn't be about some political left vs. right bs. There are plenty of leftist zionists. Half of Israel actually.

You assimilated as you mentioned. Your kids are no longer Jewish. I doubt they'd identify as one since your family assimilated as well.

Nothing against it ofcourse, I just dont think there's a point of continuing this convo. The people who feel strongly about this topic, on more than a textbook level, on both sides, have deep routes either tied to their culture (past and future), the middle east, or their religion.

There was a bipartisan consensus on Israel, and Netanyahu made the decision to more explicitly align Israel with american conservatism and the republican.

if your mad about Israel becoming a left-right issue, you should be mad at Bibi.

 

[IATT]

 

[gry60]

This is a good reminder that Trump was born during segregation. By the 1970s, he was getting sued for refusing to rent his apartments to black New Yorkers. In 1967, he was old enough to have heard and remembered those words.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

These were the kids that were asleep or disruptive during govt class and probably also failed it.

And what I’ve found with kids now is that it’s much worse than when I was in those classes a quarter century ago now. They just pass kids even if they fail. So there’s zero accountability for not knowing anything about the civics process today.

Then you shove garbage social media in front of these ignorant people and they think they have a clue. It’s like giving them a vehicle and they have no idea how to drive. We should be glad when these idiots don’t vote at the end of the day. It’s far better than a non-driver getting behind the wheel.

i used "low information" in stead of speaking to their intelligence for a reason. unfortunately I know some pretty damn educated people that don't know a damn thing about politics or how the government works. they fall for the same misinformation that everyone else does. intelligence and real critical thinking ability aren't interchangeable. I know some extremely intelligent people that simply never developed the skill to audit information for truth.

 

[trappedintime]

i used "low information" in stead of speaking to their intelligence for a reason. unfortunately I know some pretty damn educated people that don't know a damn thing about politics or how the government works. they fall for the same misinformation that everyone else does. intelligence and real critical thinking ability aren't interchangeable. I know some extremely intelligent people that simply never developed the skill to audit information for truth.

most of these people act like they know exactly how govt works though. You ever encounter one of these people who says they just aren’t well educated on govt roles, checks and balances, the electoral college?

Being low information is one thing but these people are complete idiots regardless of what other book knowledge they do or do not possess.

 

[trappedintime]

Also: we used to define intelligence by critical thinking and analytical skills, not just what you were able to read and comprehend. What we see these days is a complete lack of critical thinking or ability to analyze policy outcomes, policy proposals… no matter how basic.

I tend to label people who ignore facts and refuse to think critically just to defend awful perspectives as low intelligence. If you can’t differentiate fact from fiction how intelligent is someone?

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

most of these people act like they know exactly how govt works though. You ever encounter one of these people who says they just aren’t well educated on govt roles, checks and balances, the electoral college?

Being low information is one thing but these people are complete idiots regardless of what other book knowledge they do or do not possess.

thats because they think they do know. but what they "know" is actually misinformation because they don't know how to audit the validity of the information fed to them designed to illicit reactions and play on biases. The whole "why hasn't she fixed things already while shes in power" line is one that ive heard a lot from right wing talking heads and its being parroted by the "undecided" community for weeks.

granted, paying attention to civics in high school SHOULD alleviate those issues, but in today's day and age where people get there main sources of "news" from social media, i dont know how much that would even stop the brain rot at this point. education and what is/was taught is constantly under attack. People are trusting Umar Johnson more than what they learned in school.

 

[a-friend]

Sheesh, I'm only reacting to what you posted...

Damn it, my apologies.
I didn't even take the time to understand what you meant.
I immediately showed my *** and jumped to the conclusion that you were referencing me as the black trump voter scanning pop culture to pluck flowers for Trump.
I could blame it on it being early and not having my coffee.
I could blame it on previous engagements where I felt that assumptions were made about me, but the blame lies with me.
I take the blame for just being an *** and doing what I claim others have done, assuming.
Very poor engagement on my part, definitely shouldn't have came at you like that.

 

[Brownstone]

Isn't weed already legal?

I understand theres a difference between decriminalization and legality but people don't seriously get arrested anymore do they? This combined with the fact that delta 9 is weed we can all stop pretending......