Official Political Discussion Thread

rolaholic · Nov 5, 2016

Hillary Underwood though

RustyShackleford · Nov 5, 2016

Rolaholic said:
Hillary Underwood though

It finally really hit dude that Obama ain't gonna around next year, and this is what he getting.

rolaholic · Nov 5, 2016

Dude is looking like

whywesteppin · Nov 5, 2016

Rolaholic said:
^^It might've been one of the better Real Times in a while,not in part due to Bill though. Dude was hammered ,the Obama interview was worth the wait though

I found myself pretty surprised at how a neocon like David Frum's views on the elections lowkey lined up with my own . On the issue of loss of trust in the media/certain institutions though, tbh, a lot of the concerns many folks were passing off, especially folks on the left, as "conspiracies" and such regarding the DNC, collusion, and the media has eventually been validated by many of the subsequent leaks . There's a good reason why trust in a lot of these institutions has eroded and is almost at an all time low across both sides of the aisle,that scale of public disillusionment didn't just come overnight or out of nowhere,it's come after years of taking the public's trust for granted in their actions.

I also agree that veering off on the side that says we need to get rid of all those institutions is also extreme and definitely dangerous in the long run but that shouldn't mean that we shouldn't be trying to hold those same institutional safeguards accountable, imo. It only strengthens our so called democracy when institutions like the media act as watchdogs for the powerful

true. there's plenty of blame to go around. backdoor politics is understandable but there needs to be some standard of decency and transparency when it comes to something like an election.

i guess one issue is that you and me are capable of discussing this without falling into gross generalizations or partisanship, but the general political has been pushed in such a way that most people adopt an extreme and become defensive about their side.

I'm glad the panel pointed out the problem with cnn having 2 Democrats and 2 Republicans on every panel. the focus has become all about what side you're on in an almost tribal way. instead we just need to have people going after the truth who may differ in their ideas but don't feel tethered to a party.

i mean we can debate the merits of a 2-party system all day, but i think we can agree that news networks and their guests don't always have to be wed to a single party.

gry60 · Nov 5, 2016

whywesteppin said:
just watched bill Maher from last night. best part was when he said that this election is different, that he disagreed with bush, McCain, and Romney, but at least they were honorable men. and that he and the rest of the country went too far in their attacks on them at times.

the guest in the show made a good point though that didn't really register with Maher. the idea is that this all started when we first started eroding institutions that are really the safeguards of truth and democracy. things like the NY times or political negotiations. and the blame, while it mostly falls on stuff coming from the right wing, also falls on some on the left.

part of it is the parroting of conspiracy theories, which trump has owned this year, but in the past the left has been guilty of pushing non-scientific ideas. anti-vaccination or anti-GMO wasn't a purely right wing thing in the past. true, this year trump has managed to consolidate most of these lunatics on his side, but that lunacy is not traditionally a purely Republican or right-leaning phenomenon. if anything, Republicans in my lifetime have been the party against that, at least before Obama became president.

anyway, the whole point of my long rant is that institutions are key safeguards. and, while we can disagree on liberal/progressive/conservative ideas and what direction to go in, the real danger with trump and the current climate is this legitimization of conspiracies and the fringe. the Republicans are to blame for making their party permissive to the fringe in 2009. but in general both the right and the left need to recognize how dangerous it is and be willing to reject it.

Aaaand you hit the bull's eye.

I talk a lot more than I should about my country of origin precisely for that reason: democracy doesn't work when institutions are weak, and the only thing that makes institutions strong is the trust that people instill in them. The moment you undermine that trust and belief is the moment you march towards multiple constitutions in an average person's lifetime, foreign influence and intervention in domestic politics, and generally social and political chaos that leaves the country open to power vacuums.

Ironically, weakening institutions is the weapon of choice of most world powers in foreign affairs, and the US is pretty adept at that kind of stuff overseas according to our history in Central and South America, Congo, and Asia.

seandon23 · Nov 5, 2016

whywesteppin said:
just watched bill Maher from last night. best part was when he said that this election is different, that he disagreed with bush, McCain, and Romney, but at least they were honorable men. and that he and the rest of the country went too far in their attacks on them at times.

the guest in the show made a good point though that didn't really register with Maher. the idea is that this all started when we first started eroding institutions that are really the safeguards of truth and democracy. things like the NY times or political negotiations. and the blame, while it mostly falls on stuff coming from the right wing, also falls on some on the left.

part of it is the parroting of conspiracy theories, which trump has owned this year, but in the past the left has been guilty of pushing non-scientific ideas. anti-vaccination or anti-GMO wasn't a purely right wing thing in the past. true, this year trump has managed to consolidate most of these lunatics on his side, but that lunacy is not traditionally a purely Republican or right-leaning phenomenon. if anything, Republicans in my lifetime have been the party against that, at least before Obama became president.

anyway, the whole point of my long rant is that institutions are key safeguards. and, while we can disagree on liberal/progressive/conservative ideas and what direction to go in, the real danger with trump and the current climate is this legitimization of conspiracies and the fringe. the Republicans are to blame for making their party permissive to the fringe in 2009. but in general both the right and the left need to recognize how dangerous it is and be willing to reject it.

speaking the truth bro

everysingletime · Nov 5, 2016

whywesteppin said:
just watched bill Maher from last night. best part was when he said that this election is different, that he disagreed with bush, McCain, and Romney, but at least they were honorable men. and that he and the rest of the country went too far in their attacks on them at times.

the guest in the show made a good point though that didn't really register with Maher. the idea is that this all started when we first started eroding institutions that are really the safeguards of truth and democracy. things like the NY times or political negotiations. and the blame, while it mostly falls on stuff coming from the right wing, also falls on some on the left.

part of it is the parroting of conspiracy theories, which trump has owned this year, but in the past the left has been guilty of pushing non-scientific ideas. anti-vaccination or anti-GMO wasn't a purely right wing thing in the past. true, this year trump has managed to consolidate most of these lunatics on his side, but that lunacy is not traditionally a purely Republican or right-leaning phenomenon. if anything, Republicans in my lifetime have been the party against that, at least before Obama became president.

anyway, the whole point of my long rant is that institutions are key safeguards. and, while we can disagree on liberal/progressive/conservative ideas and what direction to go in, the real danger with trump and the current climate is this legitimization of conspiracies and the fringe. the Republicans are to blame for making their party permissive to the fringe in 2009. but in general both the right and the left need to recognize how dangerous it is and be willing to reject it.

What's crazy is I feel most ppl are unaware of the danger Trump's talks pose towards democracy.

I feel like they see Trump's rants like that one crazy guy at a party that everyone gives a wide berth and ignore. You wouldn't want to talk to him but you feel like he poses no danger either.

ninjahood · Nov 5, 2016

new poll got Pennsylvania tied.... :lol:

superblytrife · Nov 5, 2016

Poll, as in A poll?

We still doin' this, huh? :lol:

Belgium · Nov 5, 2016

Something about Bill Maher just annoys me a lot. He comes across as very smug and forced to me.

gry60 · Nov 5, 2016

On the issue of loss of trust in the media/certain institutions though, tbh, a lot of the concerns many folks were passing off, especially folks on the left, as "conspiracies" and such regarding the DNC, collusion, and the media has eventually been validated by many of the subsequent leaks laugh.gifmean.gif. There's a good reason why trust in a lot of these institutions has eroded and is almost at an all time low across both sides of the aisle,that scale of public disillusionment didn't just come overnight or out of nowhere,it's come after years of taking the public's trust for granted in their actions.

You can thank the way the electoral system is set up for that. When a lot of money is needed to be heard by the people through a media structure disproportionally owned by private interests, focusing fundraising efforts on a couple of billionaires instead of 1000s of thousandaires becomes a very strong incentive.

When the revolving door between private industries and regulatory bodies is wide open, private operation procedures become public policy as former CEOs turn into legislators and repay their former employers with largesses. Let's not forget newly appointed politicians who often use their time in public office as a springboard to more lucrative positions in the private sector.

seandon23 · Nov 5, 2016

Colombia said:
Something about Bill Maher just annoys me a lot. He comes across as very smug and forced to me.

he def has his moments where he can be smug (dont know if i'd say forced but i cant think of the word) which is why I'm not the biggest fan of him especially when it comes to how he views religion even though I'm not religious

gry60 · Nov 5, 2016

ninjahood said:
new poll got Pennsylvania tied....

You do realize that not a single ballot has been opened yet right? They are counting who is voting, not how they are voting, and based on the lower republican turnout in NC and the fact that 1/3 of Republicans in Congress won't acknowledge Trump , one could predict that not all Republican votes are going to go to the Donald.

ninjahood · Nov 5, 2016

superblyTRIFE said:
Poll, as in A poll?

We still doin' this, huh?

1. its da latest

2. we're 3,days out. da average means less unless u wanna track trending (which paints an even worse pic if u wanna go there)

u can go peep urself :nerd:

.

EddieDoyers · Nov 5, 2016

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trumps-wife-modeled-us-prior-getting-visa-012948596--election.html

big j 33 · Nov 5, 2016

I'm going to miss Obama and I'm ready for this whole mess to be over.

This whole election feels like a collective fever dream. I understand how and the reasons behind his popularity, but I still can't believe.. at a basic, logical level, how Trump is the Republican nominee.

clarkchaz1988 · Nov 5, 2016

Colombia said:
Something about Bill Maher just annoys me a lot. He comes across as very smug and forced to me.

Yeah I agree. I've been a fan for a while but dude has gotten worse and worse and more disrespectful the older he gets. Whenever somebody disagrees with him your immediately a ******* idiot.

Belgium · Nov 5, 2016

Our news here just aired a segment on gerrymandering and how it works. I know the basics but our top US political expert showed some detailed statistics demonstrating how corrupt that system truly is. What happened in North Carolina due to GOP gerrymandering is ridiculous.

I wonder why mr. rigged election hasn't uttered a single word about it

bruhman 5th flo · Nov 5, 2016

Hillary isnt even human shes a lizard....like **** cheney

dragicon · Nov 5, 2016

Colombia said:
Something about Bill Maher just annoys me a lot. He comes across as very smug and forced to me.

thats because he is very smug :lol:

I enjoy the content of his show, particularly the panels and interviews. However, I usually skip through the monologue because it is usually him just telling dry jokes while he smirks at the camera and waits of the audience to applaud.

Belgium · Nov 5, 2016

Big J 33 said:
I'm going to miss Obama and I'm ready for this whole mess to be over.

This whole election feels like a collective fever dream. I understand how and the reasons behind his popularity, but I still can't believe.. at a basic, logical level, how Trump is the Republican nominee.

It just shows how deeply frustrated and hateful the republican base is with how things are going now. And those feelings aren't gonna disappear any time soon after this election. The same trend has been happening in Europe for a while now, with candidates and political parties growing more and more extreme. Geert Wilders from the Netherlands, whose party is leading in the polls, makes Trump look like a saint in comparison. And I fear the same toxic wave will inevitably spread to my country as well.

Top economists from all sides of the political spectrum and even outside of America have warned against his economic plans. Many of the world's top scientists including 30 Nobel prize winners have strongly condemned his anti-science rhetoric. To be a Trump supporter, you have to at least sacrifice some basic logic and human decency. The Brexit campaign quote "we are tired of listening to experts" seems quite appropriate here.

Hillary is by no means an ideal candidate, I don't like her at all, but sometimes you just have to pick the lesser poison. It's simple logic.

I think she's a shady person but Trump has set the bar so low I don't see how anyone could support his total lack of human decency.

At the end of the day I'll take a competent but shady politician over the embodiment of bigotry and regressive views.

whywesteppin · Nov 5, 2016

ninjahood said:
superblyTRIFE said:

Poll, as in A poll?

We still doin' this, huh?

Click to expand...

1. its da latest

2. we're 3,days out. da average means less unless u wanna track trending (which paints an even worse pic if u wanna go there)

u can go peep urself .

You mean the only one of the 14 polls taken in the past week that doesn't have Hillary winning PA?

You'll never learn, will you?

IATT · Nov 5, 2016

whywesteppin · Nov 5, 2016

amel223 said:
What's crazy is I feel most ppl are unaware of the danger Trump's talks pose towards democracy.

That's what it is.

Bush, Obama, Bill Clinton, Bush Sr., etc.... they all did some things we may disagree with, but they all understood and respected our democracy.

People always say education is key, and I can see why. When people can't put basic news in a historical perspective, when they can't understand basic statistics, when they can't make sense of stuff, I think they turn to the fringe. And Trump is their pied piper.

Speaking of pied piper... how long till one of these contractors that Trump has stiffed turns around and sabotages Trump?