***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Mark Antony]

The average American is an idiot. Don't let NT's political thread's demographics fool you; in real life and outside of major West and East Coast cities/metro areas, illiterate and/or ignorant people outnumber people with common sense by far.

This is exactly what happened in England too. All the brainless hicks outside of the major cities voted for "taking Britain back" from the EU, and then they started crying about it all over Twitter in the upcoming weeks. Their hate towards Polish and Muslim immigrants was the only thing that mattered, until they learned about the negative economic and social consequences AFTER the vote

See this is my issue.

Your condescending tone does nothing.

A lot of people are just raised in enviroments where following politics seems like a waste of time.

At 31 Ive probably just started paying even the slightest attention to it because of Obama.

Instead of spewing your negative views on people who seem to be at a loss, why not shepherd the sheep?

Probably why this thread has so many few new posters.

Its like the gym for out of shape people tryna get fit but get clowned for taking the first step

Then why again focus on rhetoric as opposed to the number of factual links posted and educate yourself? How does this make you any different looking for an argument? I agree it can be off putting at times, but you choose what to engage in. Everytime I see "indepents" pop up here their focus is voter/poster rhetoric, not the issues. Start with the issues.

 

[leavemeglazzies]

 

[gry60]

You don't get it, do you?

We knew he would do it, and those policies will NOT benefit the US. The koolaid you drank is the belief that it would.

Oh yeah he's doing what he promised at the expense of screwing over thousands and even millions of Americans while destroying America's role as the hegemon in the world! Yay Trump!!

Exactly!

There is more to America than the middle of it. In fact, our way of life is directly dependent on the dominance of the US in world affairs and world trade. Trump is hurting that, and we will all suffer from it.

Obama leaving office a popular president doesn't mean he didn't have his fair share of critics,or those who thought he could do things differently in his base, it's complete revisionist history on your part to just dismiss the folks who were pushing him on the left. The fact that a no name, "socialist" senator made such a dent in the primary process everyone had wrapped up before it even started is evidence that a decent number of the base was very much in tune with the anti-establishment,populist fervor the country was headed in

If that were truly the case then there wouldn't have been a concerted effort on the left to deny Sanders the nomination.

And then after he lost you all tried to sweep it all under the rug and tried to silence the angry faction of the left that propelled Sanders into the spotlight. That same anger was there after Clinton got the nomination, you all just chose to ignore it.

Sanders ran under the DNC banner simply because he needed representation in all 50 states.

Why would people assume that the apparatus of a party he didn't contribute to should support him at the risk of breaking the relationships they have had with one of the most prominent figures of the party? Why do people not look at it this way?

And you really need to stop this attempt at scapegoating Democrats; it's just as bad as the GOP overriding Obama's veto and blaming him for not being convincing enough. You were told that Trump was dangerous, and you gambled. Don't turn around and blame those who warned you.

 

[rolaholic]

millenial should be ps'ed in there handing the constitution to Ninja

 

[EddieDoyers]

Rico isn't half wrong
I shared my doubts about Hillary plenty times in the thread during the election year, even had Rusty chastise me for being a Bernie supporter

But she's pretty clear to me that she was the lesser of two evils and would have inflicted less severe changes

And a lot of complaints I have heard from Republicans and Trump supporters about Obama is:
1)Obamacare
2)Race divider
3)Handling of the Middle East

Number one and two complaints are easily bs, while the third complaint could be valid depending on what perspective you're coming from
Obama wasn't a bad president imo

 

[whywesteppin]

Look, we get it. Rico's frustrated. We all are. Our country is on the brink of implosion and there is plenty of blame to go around. Rico probably feels upset that we didn't do better, that we weren't able to save the country from itself.

We tried, man. We tried. And we'll keep fighting for progress. We'll keep fighting to put competent people in office. We'll keep fighting against corruption and lies. We'll fight against leaders who try to bastardize this country. We will fight for the free press that is held accountable, not just by the public but internally. We will fight for science and reason to be championed and fear and emotion to be minimized.

But we live in the real world and sometimes we have to do the best with what we've got. Say what you will about how effective he was, but Obama was a once-in-a-lifetime freak, and he left a gaping hole in American politics and especially in the Democratic party that no one could fill. So we ended up with Hillary, again, and a socialist-leaning Senator most of us had never heard of. But still, while few of us were super-excited, we realized they stood for many of the things we cared most about. And, importantly in this election, were not going to ruin the things we care most about.

Many things went wrong and many things could be different. But the reality is that now we have an orange turd in office and 99% of what he's doing goes against everything we believe in. So we are going to spend every day until 2020 working to minimize what he is doing and to cultivate a better Democratic party but also a better Republican party, and of course a better America. That's just how it's going to be.

 

[rolaholic]

Well said

 

[rico x hood]

Man I'm one of the folks who was and is still pissed about the DNC collusion and ******** all over Bern though . I wasn't dismissing the e-mails outright like a lot of folks,they uncovered up a lot of the very,corrosive things so many of us were saying about the DNC but were considered to be "conspiracies" before the election leaks

The DNC establishment is NOT a reflection of the Democratic base/electorate. The support for the most progressive platform in history was and is there,it's just up to the Dems to get their heads out their ***** and actually start to change some things with their candidates instead of trying to go back to the status quo that's been losing elections

A repudiation of Hillary =/= a repudiation of Obama either like you keep pushing

You saying this now. But I do not recall this same mindset prior to the election. But maybe I'm wrong.

 

[boris]

Amazing. Even still with all that's happened since election day. You all still can't see it.

Try being informative instead of condescending.

 

[Mark Antony]

Man I'm one of the folks who was and is still pissed about the DNC collusion and ******** all over Bern though . I wasn't dismissing the e-mails outright like a lot of folks,they uncovered up a lot of the very,corrosive things so many of us were saying about the DNC but were considered to be "conspiracies" before the election leaks

The DNC establishment is NOT a reflection of the Democratic base/electorate. The support for the most progressive platform in history was and is there,it's just up to the Dems to get their heads out their ***** and actually start to change some things with their candidates instead of trying to go back to the status quo that's been losing elections

A repudiation of Hillary =/= a repudiation of Obama either like you keep pushing

You saying this now. But I do not recall this same mindset prior to the election. But maybe I'm wrong.

You are definitely wrong and are letting your anger cloud your memory making it seem like Hillary had overwhelming support and folks didn't understand Trump's appeal. Do not forget you and the people of your ilk's part in this current situation and the excuses though, I'd say it played a much bigger role towards where we are now.

 

[rolaholic]

Man I'm one of the folks who was and is still pissed about the DNC collusion and ******** all over Bern though . I wasn't dismissing the e-mails outright like a lot of folks,they uncovered up a lot of the very,corrosive things so many of us were saying about the DNC but were considered to be "conspiracies" before the election leaks

The DNC establishment is NOT a reflection of the Democratic base/electorate. The support for the most progressive platform in history was and is there,it's just up to the Dems to get their heads out their ***** and actually start to change some things with their candidates instead of trying to go back to the status quo that's been losing elections

A repudiation of Hillary =/= a repudiation of Obama either like you keep pushing

You saying this now. But I do not recall this same mindset prior to the election. But maybe I'm wrong.

I swear we were here,might've been drowned out by all the arguments with both sides, the fall in line and Trump crowd, but we were here

It is what it is though,gotta work with what you've got and the DNC needs to rebuild their bench desperately. The same "New Dem" kind of centrist leaning Dems won't do it anymore in this climate. They need some unabashed, progressives to fight back strongly against the radicals in power right now. Now is not the time for some half-assed effort when there's so much at stake

 

[rico x hood]

Look, we get it. Rico's frustrated. We all are. Our country is on the brink of implosion and there is plenty of blame to go around. Rico probably feels upset that we didn't do better, that we weren't able to save the country from itself.

We tried, man. We tried. And we'll keep fighting for progress. We'll keep fighting to put competent people in office. We'll keep fighting against corruption and lies. We'll fight against leaders who try to bastardize this country. We will fight for the free press that is held accountable, not just by the public but internally. We will fight for science and reason to be championed and fear and emotion to be minimized.

But we live in the real world and sometimes we have to do the best with what we've got. Say what you will about how effective he was, but Obama was a once-in-a-lifetime freak, and he left a gaping hole in American politics and especially in the Democratic party that no one could fill. So we ended up with Hillary, again, and a socialist-leaning Senator most of us had never heard of. But still, while few of us were super-excited, we realized they stood for many of the things we cared most about. And, importantly in this election, were not going to ruin the things we care most about.

Many things went wrong and many things could be different. But the reality is that now we have an orange turd in office and 99% of what he's doing goes against everything we believe in. So we are going to spend every day until 2020 working to minimize what he is doing and to cultivate a better Democratic party but also a better Republican party, and of course a better America. That's just how it's going to be.

Very well said. I especially agree with the part about Obama. I've stated many times over the years that he was an anomaly. But dems refused to listen. And spent time trying to recapture that magic. And produced Hillary of all people. Incredible. Collectively shot yourselves in the foot.

And the crazy thing is, you still haven't learned. The proof is all the people backing Ellison for DNC chair.Dems have to come to realization that Obama is not going to happen again. The stars aligned for that man. Plain and simple.

Cory Booker is not going to happen. And neither will that black woman people been talking about who's name escapes me.

 

[leavemeglazzies]

Rico isn't half wrong
I shared my doubts about Hillary plenty times in the thread during the election year, even had Rusty chastise me for being a Bernie supporter

I was a Bernie supporter, but after it became clear that Bernie lost, I switched to "stop that madman from getting to the White House" mode immediately. Looking back, I even blame Bernie for not supportive of Hillary quite enough after he lost. Clearly he failed to persuade a lot of his voters.

Anyone whose "doubts about Hillary" resulted in voting for Drumpf, voting for a third party candidate or not voting should be ashamed. Even if Drumpf wasn't a bigot and was actually a nice person, political experience alone should've been an easy deal breaker between him and Hillary.

 

[rolaholic]

The true winners of the election wasn't middle-America but really Russia,China and now even ISIS

@theosint:
ISIS doesn't even share its own propaganda anymore. It just shares CNN and NYTimes articles about the @POTUS muslim ban on Telegram.

ISIS channels are taking advantage of the situation to show what happens to US informants and translators.

 

[d nice]

It doesn't matter if you're a liberal or a conservative at this point. The decisions this president is making is putting everyone's futures at risk.

Climate change and it's  effects are real.

The gutting of the Voting rights act and it's effects on black and brown communities are real.

The potential of millions of Americans being without healthcare are very real.

Wage inequality and rising costs of living that affect middle class and working class people are real.

loss of millions of jobs and people not being able to find work is very real.

The long term ramifications of this president promoting hatred and intolerance at home and abroad are very real.

These issues effect all Americans of every color and every background. We need to come together and build a future that is equitable for everyone. And that starts by holding power accountable.

 

[Peep Game]

Rico isn't half wrong

I shared my doubts about Hillary plenty times in the thread during the election year, even had Rusty chastise me for being a Bernie supporter

I was a Bernie supporter, but after it became clear that Bernie lost, I switched to "stop that madman from getting to the White House" mode immediately. Looking back, I even blame Bernie for not supportive of Hillary quite enough after he lost. Clearly he failed to persuade a lot of his voters.

Anyone whose "doubts about Hillary" resulted in voting for Drumpf, voting for a third party candidate or not voting should be ashamed. Even if Drumpf wasn't a bigot and was actually a nice person, political experience alone should've been an easy deal breaker between him and Hillary.

This. But remember, emails.

 

[rico x hood]

A repudiation of Hillary definitely is a repudiation of Obama. We gonna act like she wasn't running as a 3rd Obama term? Obama is firmly establishment. And this election was a clear rejection of establishment politics. If it were a regular election the two nominees would have been Jeb and O'Malley.

 

[Mark Antony]

It doesn't matter if you're a liberal or a conservative at this point. The decisions this president is making is putting everyone's futures at risk.

Climate change and it's  effects are real.
The gutting of the Voting rights act and it's effects on black and brown communities are real.
The potential of millions of Americans being without healthcare are very real.
Wage inequality and rising costs of living that affect middle class and working class people are real.
loss of millions of jobs and people not being able to find work is very real.
The long term ramifications of this president promoting hatred and intolerance at home and abroad are very real.


These issues effect all Americans of every color and every background. We need to come together and build a future that is equitable for everyone. And that starts by holding power accountable.

I urge the folks coming into thread fresh, to be informed focus on posts like this and the factual links posted. What matters more to you, your family's future, and your community, these topics, or NTers you believe to be arrogant?

 

[Based Jesus]

Yall gotta stop pushing this repudiation ********

 

[gry60]

Rico isn't half wrong

I shared my doubts about Hillary plenty times in the thread during the election year, even had Rusty chastise me for being a Bernie supporter

I was a Bernie supporter, but after it became clear that Bernie lost, I switched to "stop that madman from getting to the White House" mode immediately. Looking back, I even blame Bernie for not supportive of Hillary quite enough after he lost. Clearly he failed to persuade a lot of his voters.

Anyone whose "doubts about Hillary" resulted in voting for Drumpf, voting for a third party candidate or not voting should be ashamed. Even if Drumpf wasn't a bigot and was actually a nice person, political experience alone should've been an easy deal breaker between him and Hillary.

This.

Rico talks as if people are fans of political dynasties. From 1990 'til now, we've had Bushes and Clintons with 8 years of Obama in between (which might have been different had he lost the primaries in 200. It doesn't look good in a democracy. Still, just like 2008 had a special candidate, we found another one in 2016: an habitual liar with a questionable history as a businessman and a human being.

People simply chose to ignore it, and now they're like "why didn't you put up a better candidate?"

There was a better candidate (in the sense that a graze is better than a bullet wound); the people just didn't choose her and went with the gamble.

Time to pay up.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Amazing. Even still with all that's happened since election day. You all still can't see it.

After all that has happened since election day, you still can't see that Trump is a bigoted piece of **** nearly everyone in here was calling him months before the election. His recent action prove us right, not you.

Being condescending and a all around insufferable towards others is always more important that discussing the real issues.

The second everyone in here is proven right about Trump, that he is a white supremacist clown, you want the conversation to be about how it is everyone else's fault (Obama, the DNC, liberlas, posters in here), and how right you were.

You never want to talk about the real issues in depth because: a) you not knowledgeable about them , and b)when it is the next man's life or money, it is inconsequential.

But when Trump hurt your prospects this week, you were in here agreeing with us, weren't you now.

-Or maybe you like this xenophobic nonsense going on right now, you *** was spewing that garbage towards me when you thought it was funny.

So sit down, learn the issues, and shut the hell up.

 

[Mark Antony]

Yall gotta stop pushing this repudiation ********

The repudiation notion is ignoring the bigotry angle, also a huge factor why we're in the situation we're in.

 

[rolaholic]

Rico isn't half wrong

I shared my doubts about Hillary plenty times in the thread during the election year, even had Rusty chastise me for being a Bernie supporter

I was a Bernie supporter, but after it became clear that Bernie lost, I switched to "stop that madman from getting to the White House" mode immediately. Looking back, I even blame Bernie for not supportive of Hillary quite enough after he lost. Clearly he failed to persuade a lot of his voters.

Anyone whose "doubts about Hillary" resulted in voting for Drumpf, voting for a third party candidate or not voting should be ashamed. Even if Drumpf wasn't a bigot and was actually a nice person, political experience alone should've been an easy deal breaker between him and Hillary.

This.

Rico talks as if people are fans of political dynasties. From 1990 'til now, we've had Bushes and Clintons with 8 years of Obama in between (which might have been different had he lost the primaries in 200. It doesn't look good in a democracy. Still, just like 2008 had a special candidate, we found another one in 2016: an habitual liar with a questionable history as a businessman and a human being.

People simply chose to ignore it, and now they're like "why didn't you put up a better candidate?"

There was a better candidate (in the sense that a graze is better than a bullet wound); the people just didn't choose her and went with the gamble.

Time to pay up.

Basically,I still can't see how folks are justifying Trump being a better candidate

Even as flawed as she was,Hillary Rodham Clinton would've still been a much better president

 

[EddieDoyers]

Rico isn't half wrong

I shared my doubts about Hillary plenty times in the thread during the election year, even had Rusty chastise me for being a Bernie supporter

I was a Bernie supporter, but after it became clear that Bernie lost, I switched to "stop that madman from getting to the White House" mode immediately. Looking back, I even blame Bernie for not supportive of Hillary quite enough after he lost. Clearly he failed to persuade a lot of his voters.

Anyone whose "doubts about Hillary" resulted in voting for Drumpf, voting for a third party candidate or not voting should be ashamed. Even if Drumpf wasn't a bigot and was actually a nice person, political experience alone should've been an easy deal breaker between him and Hillary.

I will be honest, I thought about not voting until Hillary was cleared of any wrong doing by the last week, and even then I was at the polling place and I was staring hard at the ballot, but I inked Hillary in because I didn't want an even more crazy president.

I'm sure a lot of independents and democrats thought opposite of what I did and voted 3rd party or even Trump.

I don't want to look back at the history. Currently we have a man in charge that doesn't know the long term effects it could have on our economy and homeland security. There's lots of reasons to criticize the cheeto in suit.

 

[whywesteppin]

This.

Rico talks as if people are fans of political dynasties. From 1990 'til now, we've had Bushes and Clintons with 8 years of Obama in between (which might have been different had he lost the primaries in 200. It doesn't look good in a democracy. Still, just like 2008 had a special candidate, we found another one in 2016: an habitual liar with a questionable history as a businessman and a human being.

People simply chose to ignore it, and now they're like "why didn't you put up a better candidate?"

There was a better candidate (in the sense that a graze is better than a bullet wound); the people just didn't choose her and went with the gamble.

Time to pay up.

It's interesting you put it that way, and this coincides with something Rico said: especially after Obama, we wanted a "special" candidate. Our whole problem (human beings, in general) is that we look to the president to be some radical force of change who will turn our lives around.

Obama explicitly warned us over and over against that notion.

The president can be "special" but he/she does not need to be. The only thing they need to be is competent and reasonable human beings. That's it.

Instead, we sacrificed those necessities because we (well, the deplorables) were looking for a savior.

Americans need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves.