***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[stuntman mike]

Let's break this down. During Obama's first two years, he did have majorities in Congress but he was partially hemmed in by unified GOP opposition, conservative Democrats and a business and political elite enthralled to manufactured hysteria over "THE DEBT!!!". All this was happening in the midst of a economic depression brought about by previous administrations and congresses.

Given those limitations, Barack Obama did stop the free fall for jobs and GDP with the stimulus, he limited the worst behavior of Wall Street with the CFBP and he got us more expansive healthcare. All three of those could have been better and Obama bears some blame but other power brokers deserve most of the blame. Despite all those issues, Barack Obama's first two years were a net positive for the average person, when one considers the myriad obstacles that he faced.

The final six years all looked about the same economically and politically. Obama was in the White House, GOP controlled one both houses of Congress. The GOP did as much as they could to sabotage the economy, the Fed printed tons of money and we chugged along at 2.0 or so GDP growth. net job creation expanded, wages stagnated.

You're right that GDP never grow at over 3% but you're missing the bigger picture and that is the fact that our economy's rules and its structure, shaped over four decades, insures that few people outside of the top 10% will do well if GDP is under 3% and usually GDP has to hit 4% for non stock owning, non managerial workers to get a "taste." The problem is that in order to get to 4% growth in the US economy, with is an advanced economy, one usually needs to inflate some enormous bubble in financial markets and that leads to recession and workers losing whatever modest gains that they enjoyed during a brief, speculative driven boom.

If the rules of our economy did not empower finance so much and if our rules empowered workers, sustained 2% growth and job creation would have resulted in growing real wages for workers.

Let's get down to brass taxes here. You felt left out and I don't blame you. It was appalling to see Obama administration officials declare a recover and then an economic boom when the vast majority of workers enjoyed little to no wage increases and many workers found themselves working in more precarious jobs with fewer benefits then they worked in 10 or 20 years ago. I share your outrage but I am just bewildered as to why to focus on something and not other, more fundamental things.




Two quick things on that and one longer point:

One, I will concede that too Democrats have a white collar, professional class bias. (All Republicans have that same bias well but they conceal it by pretending to be working class when they are in public). Barack Obama should have declared States with high unemployment to be in a State of emergency and he should have leaned on governors to invoke emergency clauses in their state constitutions and ease environmental restrictions and expedite building permits.

It amazes me how after the 1994 earthquake, when bridges and freeways were down and rich people in West LA were inconvenienced, man oh man, did the red tape vanish until the infrastructure that served Bel Air, Santa Monica and Malibu was made whole again. The 2008-2009 recession should have been treated like an Earthquake or a massive Hurricane and if the Democratic Party (and the Republican party) actually cared about blue collar workers, as much as they claimed, we would have had lots of shovel ready jobs.

Two, the stimulus was under powered. While 900 billion sounds like a lot, it was charged with rescuing a 14 trillion dollar economy that was in free fall. At the time, people like Paul Krugman were saying that the stimulus needs to be double. It was under powered, many people lost their jobs and homes and it happened that way because the sort of people for whom you vote, wanted it to happen that way.


Third and finally, you should blame the bond market vigilantes for so much of the stimulus going to simply plug holes in State and local budgets. You have to keep in mind that bigwigs in finance, deliberately conspire against governments that take on sustainable debt to finance fiscal stimulus. A perfect, rational market would price States issues bonds in such way that their interest would be low so long as that State took on a reasonable amount of debt. A rational bond market would know that State revenues fluctuate a great deal and that when the economy contracts, States revenues shrink a great deal and that in more robust years their revenues grow a great deal. A rational bond market would allow States, to take on some debt during lean years in order to stabilize their budgets and to push some fiscal stimulus. a rational bond market would know that those States can pay back those bonds during good economic times and therefore, the bonds should be issues at very low interest rates.

Sadly, the bond market is not very rational, the bond market is rigged. What happens is that even most and easily repayable debt on the part of States, causes the bond market's leaders to conspire to purchase that debt at very high interest rates. In the short run, it helps the finance guys make extra money. In the long run it disciplines States and their citizens into a State of permanent austerity. Due to an artificial lack of access to low interest loans.

Due to its size, ability to print money and its status as holding the world's reserve currency, the bond market's leaders cannot punish the Federal Government of the United States. So I have no problem with Obama giving a bunch of Federal money to States and cities that have been besieged by bond market vigilantes. Maybe if States had more flexibility, they could have created their own stimulus programs in 2009 and 2010 and the feds could have been free to fund projects that could have stopped mass unemployment from ever happening.

smh WOW

 

[everysingletime]

Whooops wrong thread

 

[Mark Antony]

Interesting piece from a reformed orange cultist

Interesting. But before it became clear to him I'm sure he was right there making the same ignorant, insincere reaches to defend Trump as other Trumpettes just so he could get what he wanted. That's what's annoying, some of them know it's ******** but opt to willingly frustrate you and waste your time.

 

[IATT]

 

[EddieDoyers]

That's blasphemous of him to say that

 

[whywesteppin]

i still hate the warriors though

 

[everysingletime]

KD still a F boy

 

[RustyShackleford]

aepps20 come gets you mans. He is not doing excellent work. Wait until Shifty, Smoothie, D-Money and the white girls hear about his. Smh

His neck punani looking real dapper doe

 

[aepps20]

aepps20 come gets you mans. He is not doing excellent work. Wait until Shifty, Smoothie, D-Money and the white girl here about his. Smh

His neck punani looking real dapper doe

I agree 10000 percent with what MY GOVERNOR is doing and what he said. Taking down those monuments is just like 9/11. SHIFTY, SMOOTHIE, D-MONEY and the White GIRLZ need to be locked up right next to Hills.

You crossing the line saying OUR GOVERNOR is not DAPPER. HE might not have the crisp shape up like you had in your pic with Tomi but we can't all be as HANDSOME as Don, Barson, Rusty or Pence. SMH WOW

 

[whywesteppin]

His neck punani looking real dapper doe

The neck punani is indeed DAPPER. Soon these elderly white supremacists will be able to procreate without needing women. Bannon will give them tips.

 

[Mr.Guy]

Trump knows what he's doing, I've seen this from a mile away. He knows his base loves their loser flags and that too many Repubs were elected in districts where loser flag supporters reside, so he knows that Repubs won't stop supporting him. Easy way to divide the country about a nonissue while he continues to not carry out a legislative agenda. Repubs better be careful though because If they stay too close to him, he can tarnish the party's image for years. It's gonna be interesting to see how this all plays out. I still see Trump prob getting a second term unfortunately.

 

[whywesteppin]

like you had in your pic with Tomi

 

[RIP sleazyy]

Coming out with that "I regret voting for him" stuff is stupid. It's literally the same lying scamming scumbag that you thought was good enough to vote for in the first place.

"Bu bu but muh morals"

I hope these people feel shame every day.

 

[whywesteppin]

It is shameful. They were useful idiots for trump, being fooled by his rhetoric and two-faced talk.

But they are OUR useful idiots now.

 

[dragicon]

KD still a F boy

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...hite-house-harsh-words-president-donald-trump

The comments on the espn article are ridiculous. What world are these people living in?

 

[everysingletime]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...hite-house-harsh-words-president-donald-trump

The comments on the espn article are ridiculous. What world are these people living in?

It's like they're living in an alternate reality.

 

[rexanglorum]

aepps20 come gets you mans. He is not doing excellent work. Wait until Shifty, Smoothie, D-Money and the white girls hear about his. Smh

His neck punani looking real dapper doe

Those guys from New York and Connecticut going to try to make Mulatto baby with that neck before they leave Maine.

To be fair to Paul LePage, he never sought out white supremacy for its quick and cheap high. He was prescribed a small, pharmaceutical grade dose of white supremacy by his doctor. Later on, his doctor cut him off and then guys from New York with names like Don and Eric and Steve and Alex "pushed" pure, high grade, street white supremacy on innocent Mainers. The man is now hooked on WS through absolutely no fault of his own.



So I'm seeing on the news, things about Confederate monuments in DC, Maryland and Kentucky. If I am going to give you even a sliver of a benefit of a doubt on these monuments, you had better be from a rebel State and have family who actually fought in the civil war. If you live in a former Union State or you are a more recent transplant to the Sun belt and you defend confederate memorials, you are no longer just a suspected white supremacist.

If you live in New England and you support these monuments, you should just get a bright red shirt that says "i'm a white supremacists" that or a MAGA hat.

 

[IATT]

 

[IATT]

 

[whywesteppin]

"Murdoch, the CEO of 21st Century Fox, the parent of conservative Fox News Channel, said he and his wife, Kathryn, would donate $1 million to the Anti-Defamation League in the wake of Trump refusing to assign sole blame to a white supremacist/neo-Nazi group for fights on August 12 in Charlottesville, VA."

http://deadline.com/2017/08/20th-ce...to-nazis-donates-1-million-to-adl-1202151582/

If you live in New England and you support these monuments, you should just get a bright red shirt that says "i'm a white supremacists" that or a MAGA hat.

**** THIS GUY

 

[sfc415]

How do you grow up in the Bay Area and become a Trump supporter? Traitor

 

[nomnom]

Conservatives:

GOD I HATE ESPN STOP THIS LIBERAL PROPAGANDA

-continues to consume all things ESPN online and on TV-

 

[nomnom]

How do you grow up in the Bay Area and become a Trump supporter? Traitor

Money, privilege, wealth, and status can really get to the head

 

[whywesteppin]

Money, privilege, wealth, and status can really get to the head

Brady is also a bit of a nut. He believes in a bunch of weird health stuff. Those types are prone to buy into some of trump's ******** because they are poor at judging information and assume there is value in something just because it goes against the experts.

 

[noskey]

Don't worry comrades, these weak ****s will fall back in line and vote BARSON 2020 when it's time. They might be feeling weak now, from all the kale speech and innuendo and libel. But rest assured, when the COAL TRAIN comes barreling through their town like da silver orange bullet, they'll pickup their bootstraps, mine that coal, and VOTE BARSON 2020