***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[nomnom]

 

[nomnom]

 

[elpablo21]

Dbl

 

[elpablo21]

 

[getback]

 

[EddieDoyers]

Vote guys
We can’t let this happen again

 

[nomnom]

NY HEADS VOTE TODAY!

 

[gry60]

I dont look at Trump's tweets ... I dont follow Trump on Twitter and I cant see tweets on NT for some reason ...

I am simply playing out the situation as I see it ... The outrage started with the separation of children ... Trump signed an order saying stop doing that ... I understand he "started it" and I'm not really disputing that ... I am wondering what the Left's goal is for immigration because EVERYONE who is anti-Trump is advocating for an open border policy, ultimately ...

I dont even look at Facebook too often but the stuff I saw regarding immigration was so nonsensical ... People using examples of illegal immigration success stories as a means to justify ............. O wait, they never get to the policy part ... The only conclusion can be open borders ... In the end, the only thing that will satisfy the Left is unbridled immigration ...

Google immigration impact on wages because I dont feel like getting into it ... It's real and there is blame on both sides ...

First of all, there was nothing open about this country's immigration policy before and during Obama's terms. Not a single thing.
I came to the US on a student visa. To simply go back to my own country and come back here to continue my studies, I had to reapply for a new visa, the intention of which was never guaranteed. Mind you, that is after pouring tens of thousands of dollars in an American university and paying inflated tuition (international students pay at least twice as much as in-state students), inflated living amenities, and inflated books. In other countries, you get a student card that allows you to come and go for the duration of your studies as long as you show progress. In the US, you put $40k in your education (my yearly tuition was in the 30k) and a salty Immigration officer can tell you to kick rocks and deny entry when you come back to school (and there is no appeal)

That is not open. International students who do graduate here have very few opportunities here because very few companies want to go through the process of applying for a work visa and then a green card, and the yearly spots for work visas are very few compared to the demand (companies that already have foreign workers) anyways.

That is not open borders; it is prioritizing the US worker, especially the one with degrees.

You enter the US illegally? You can never become a permanent resident or a citizen if you don't exit the country and reenter legally. You can, however, settle, open businesses, buy a property, generate taxes for the American taxpayer without benefiting from it (because you are pretty much working without a proper Social Security Number), and the American government takes that money and funds Medicare, Social Security, and spits on you.

That is not open borders and it is living in legal limbo.

Look up all Nobel prize winners that this country created, and chances are, most of them are the product of recent (relative to their age) Immigration.

Look up how much undocumented immigrants produce in taxes vs how much the government spends on them and you will see they are net producers (even the White House is doctoring those numbers because they know that info is damaging to their immigration policy).

The immigration system is broken at many levels. What the Democrats propose is a no-nonsense policy: if the people who are here illegally are a net positive for this country, let them stay in without the fear of losing it all. Do the same for those who didn't have a say in how they got here and became statusless through no fault of their own. This is a moral and ethical position.

Furthermore, give the American worker the tools to become highly demanded in the 21st century economy by investing in education. One thing many of you fail to realize is how the lack of education funding drives universities towards people who can pay 2-3 times the annual tuition (international students), no questions asked, the same way real estate companies prefer foreign home buyers who can pay above the market price and contribute to the rise in homelessness in large cities. There have been articles about Californian universities accepting more foreign students to make up for the lack of school funding or budget cuts.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

The immigration system is broken at many levels. What the Democrats propose is a no-nonsense policy: if the people who are here illegally are a net positive for this country, let them stay in without the fear of losing it all. Do the same for those who didn't have a say in how they got here and became statusless through no fault of their own. This is a moral and ethical position.

Furthermore, give the American worker the tools to become highly demanded in the 21st century economy by investing in education. One thing many of you fail to realize is how the lack of education funding drives universities towards people who can pay 2-3 times the annual tuition (international students), no questions asked, the same way real estate companies prefer foreign home buyers who can pay above the market price and contribute to the rise in homelessness in large cities. There have been articles about Californian universities accepting more foreign students to make up for the lack of school funding or budget cuts.

quoted for emphasis.

also lets knock off the phony talking points that make legal immigration look like a minor hurdle that people are too nefarious and lazy to go through.

 

[cashbanks]

that picture is creepy as ****

 

[chao7]

I found my congressional candidate online and volunteered to help with the campaign and some GOTV things. Too much is riding on this to be lazy.

https://changethenarrative2018.com

 

[InTheHallway]

First of all, there was nothing open about this country's immigration policy before and during Obama's terms. Not a single thing.
I came to the US on a student visa. To simply go back to my own country and come back here to continue my studies, I had to reapply for a new visa, the intention of which was never guaranteed. Mind you, that is after pouring tens of thousands of dollars in an American university and paying inflated tuition (international students pay at least twice as much as in-state students), inflated living amenities, and inflated books. In other countries, you get a student card that allows you to come and go for the duration of your studies as long as you show progress. In the US, you put $40k in your education (my yearly tuition was in the 30k) and a salty Immigration officer can tell you to kick rocks and deny entry when you come back to school (and there is no appeal)

That is not open. International students who do graduate here have very few opportunities here because very few companies want to go through the process of applying for a work visa and then a green card, and the yearly spots for work visas are very few compared to the demand (companies that already have foreign workers) anyways.

That is not open borders; it is prioritizing the US worker, especially the one with degrees.

You enter the US illegally? You can never become a permanent resident or a citizen if you don't exit the country and reenter legally. You can, however, settle, open businesses, buy a property, generate taxes for the American taxpayer without benefiting from it (because you are pretty much working without a proper Social Security Number), and the American government takes that money and funds Medicare, Social Security, and spits on you.

That is not open borders and it is living in legal limbo.

Look up all Nobel prize winners that this country created, and chances are, most of them are the product of recent (relative to their age) Immigration.

Look up how much undocumented immigrants produce in taxes vs how much the government spends on them and you will see they are net producers (even the White House is doctoring those numbers because they know that info is damaging to their immigration policy).

The immigration system is broken at many levels. What the Democrats propose is a no-nonsense policy: if the people who are here illegally are a net positive for this country, let them stay in without the fear of losing it all. Do the same for those who didn't have a say in how they got here and became statusless through no fault of their own. This is a moral and ethical position.

Furthermore, give the American worker the tools to become highly demanded in the 21st century economy by investing in education. One thing many of you fail to realize is how the lack of education funding drives universities towards people who can pay 2-3 times the annual tuition (international students), no questions asked, the same way real estate companies prefer foreign home buyers who can pay above the market price and contribute to the rise in homelessness in large cities. There have been articles about Californian universities accepting more foreign students to make up for the lack of school funding or budget cuts.

You just made my point ... I'm lost trying to understand where we differ ...

I believe current policies are sound and do not constitute open borders and should be enforced ... I am suggesting that the only logical conclusion to the Left's outcry is open borders, which you just described as the alternative, practically speaking ...

Am I missing something? I believe if you violate current law you should be removed and enter legally ... I have no problem with legal immigration ...

 

[MalcolmNewton]

You just made my point ... I'm lost trying to understand where we differ ...

I believe current policies are sound and do not constitute open borders and should be enforced ... I am suggesting that the only logical conclusion to the Left's outcry is open borders, which you just described as the alternative, practically speaking ...

Am I missing something? I believe if you violate current law you should be removed and enter legally ... I have no problem with legal immigration ...

You do know that open borders are one of the libertarians talking points. Not leftists.

 

[elpablo21]

 

[InTheHallway]

You do know that open borders are one of the libertarians talking points. Not leftists.

I do not believe in open borders, libertarian or otherwise ... My personal belief is that our current immigration laws are extremely beneficial to both immigrants and our country ... Proper enforcement is a separate issue ...

The point I'm trying to make is that when it comes down to actual actionable policy recommendations, the Left advocates for open borders ... First it was children, then when that stopped, now it's families ... Then it's the "foundation of this country" sensationalist talking points ...

The bottom line is this, proper investment in border security to help enforce our current immigration laws do absolutely enough for the world and America ... To insert an arbitrary "well if they're productive but illegal they can stay" provision is an impractical path to resolution ... It sets a precedent that is unenforceable which is why I say it is essentially an open borders platform ... You can't argue to the contrary, logically ...

I appreciate your response

 

[rillo561]

Who are these people on the left who want open borders?

 

[MalcolmNewton]

I do not believe in open borders, libertarian or otherwise ... My personal belief is that our current immigration laws are extremely beneficial to both immigrants and our country ... Proper enforcement is a separate issue ...

The point I'm trying to make is that when it comes down to actual actionable policy recommendations, the Left advocates for open borders ... First it was children, then when that stopped, now it's families ... Then it's the "foundation of this country" sensationalist talking points ...

The bottom line is this, proper investment in border security to help enforce our current immigration laws do absolutely enough for the world and America ... To insert an arbitrary "well if they're productive but illegal they can stay" provision is an impractical path to resolution ... It sets a precedent that is unenforceable which is why I say it is essentially an open borders platform ... You can't argue to the contrary, logically ...

I appreciate your response

You are pulling things out of your pooty tang. I've never see any "leftist" advocate for open borders, you keep repeating this

 

[IATT]

I believe if you violate current law you should be removed and enter legally ... I have no problem with legal immigration ...

i hope you realize, that the real problem the US has with illegal immigration, is this

people enter the country legally and then overstay, thus becoming in the country illegally

but hey, i'm sure a wall will solve that

 

[RustyShackleford]

I do not believe in open borders, libertarian or otherwise ... My personal belief is that our current immigration laws are extremely beneficial to both immigrants and our country ... Proper enforcement is a separate issue ...

The point I'm trying to make is that when it comes down to actual actionable policy recommendations, the Left advocates for open borders ... First it was children, then when that stopped, now it's families ... Then it's the "foundation of this country" sensationalist talking points ...

The bottom line is this, proper investment in border security to help enforce our current immigration laws do absolutely enough for the world and America ... To insert an arbitrary "well if they're productive but illegal they can stay" provision is an impractical path to resolution ... It sets a precedent that is unenforceable which is why I say it is essentially an open borders platform ... You can't argue to the contrary, logically ...

I appreciate your response

Multiple people have pointed out to you now that this is not the left's position yet you repeat it and base your responses on it.

You insist on holding into this strawman to deflect.

Stop being dense and do better.

 

[IATT]

You are pulling things out of your pooty tang. I've never see any "leftist" advocate for open borders, you keep repeating this

aint hard to tell who have had to deal with the headaches that come with any of this.. people really showing how truly stupid they are, inclusive of the president

every

day

 

[RustyShackleford]

Lol ... O, ok - I'll be sure to educate myself prior to posting, given your robust explanation of the Left's immigration platform ... That whole "decent level" estimate is quite solid ...

I literally asked for the other side's opinion, received one response that I appreciated and then your nonsensical tirade above ... You spewed the current immigration policy in force ............ what am I supposed to understand about that? The only conclusion is that you are similar to all the other sensationalists, thinking we need a change in policy without being definitive about said changes ... Are you aware of current immigration law that has remained unchanged for decades?

As for wages, dont go there with me slim ... I've forgotten more about labor economics than you are even aware of ...

If you looking for an economics debate, I'm right here.

And don't included insults for anyone else in your verses. I'm selfish, I want all of the curses.

 

[biggie62]

i hope you realize, that the real problem the US has with illegal immigration, is this

people enter the country legally and then overstay, thus becoming in the country illegally

but hey, i'm sure a wall will solve that

That’s how I came to this country initially. Was technically here illegally for about 6 years.

 

[elpablo21]

 

[nomnom]

https://tytnetwork.com/2018/06/26/ice-paid-famous-motivational-speaker-for-leadership-training/

**** him for demeaning millenials too
Cant believe 11 mil ppl watched that speech

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

i think what he's trying to say is that since the left doesnt have people publicly stating what their immigration plans are, he's "forced" to assume that based on the lefts position on letting the DACA kids stay, the advocacy of amnesty for the undocumented already here, and the out rage on the separation of children from their family's because it was no fault of their own.

i mean hes being intentionally obtuse and disingenuous, but im pretty sure thats the point hes attempting to make. Claim "i dont know what the lefts position is" and then pigeon hole them in reactionary positions caused by the right doing super right wing things