***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[blastercombo]

I dont look at Trump's tweets ... I dont follow Trump on Twitter and I cant see tweets on NT for some reason ...

I am simply playing out the situation as I see it ... The outrage started with the separation of children ... Trump signed an order saying stop doing that ... I understand he "started it" and I'm not really disputing that ... I am wondering what the Left's goal is for immigration because EVERYONE who is anti-Trump is advocating for an open border policy, ultimately ...

I dont even look at Facebook too often but the stuff I saw regarding immigration was so nonsensical ... People using examples of illegal immigration success stories as a means to justify ............. O wait, they never get to the policy part ... The only conclusion can be open borders ... In the end, the only thing that will satisfy the Left is unbridled immigration ...

Google immigration impact on wages because I dont feel like getting into it ... It's real and there is blame on both sides ...

So you check and read nothing....... sounds accurate

 

[rillo561]

Wouldnt mind Trump loving owners to deny me service or goods tbh. Wouldn't want to support them either

Agreed, this is why I like it when they proudly display their Trump bumper stickers. Makes it much easier for me to I'm know who to avoid at all cost.

 

[Belgium]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...zero-in-on-trump-russia-collusion-allegations
Mueller Poised to Zero In on Trump-Russia Collusion Allegations

• Special counsel to focus once he resolves obstruction inquiry
  
  The meetings with Russians stretched as far back as 2015

Special Counsel Robert Mueller is preparing to accelerate his probe into possible collusion between Donald Trump’s presidential campaign and Russians who sought to interfere in the 2016 election, according to a person familiar with the probe.

Mueller and his team of prosecutors and investigators have an eye toward producing conclusions -- and possible indictments -- related to collusion by fall, said the person, who asked not to be identified. He’ll be able to turn his full attention to the issue as he resolves other questions, including deciding soon whether to find that Trump sought to obstruct justice.

Mueller’s office declined to comment on his plans.

Suspicious contacts between at least 13 people associated with Trump’s presidential campaign and Russians have fueled the debate over collusion.

Some of those encounters have been known for months: the Russian ambassador whose conversations forced Attorney General Jeff Sessions to recuse himself from overseeing the Russia investigation and led Michael Flynn to plead guilty to perjury. The Russians who wangled a meeting with Donald Trump Jr. at Trump Tower in July 2016 after dangling the promise of political dirt on Democrat Hillary Clinton.

Other encounters continue to emerge, including a Russian’s chat with veteran Trump adviser Roger Stone at a cafe in Florida.

‘Warning Lights’
Signs of suspicious Russian contacts first surfaced in late 2015, especially among U.S. allies who were conducting surveillance against Russians, according to a former official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

By the spring of 2016 the frequent contacts set off alarm bells among U.S. intelligence officials, according to James Clapper, who was director of national intelligence at the time. The FBI’s Russia investigation officially began that July.

“The dashboard warning lights were on for all of us because of the meetings,” Clapper said in an interview this month. “We may not have known much about the content of these meetings, but it was certainly very curious why so many meetings with Russians.”

On three occasions, Russians offered people associated with Trump’s campaign dirt on Democrat Clinton -- all before it was publicly known that Russians had hacked the Democratic National Committee and Clinton’s campaign chairman.

Mueller has interviewed or sought information about many of the people known to have met with Russians during the campaign. But it’s not known publicly whether the barrage of Russian contacts was instigated or coordinated by the Kremlin. Trump, for his part, has repeatedly denied any such plotting, tweeting on June 15, “WITCH HUNT! There was no Russian Collusion.”

Continuation of (very lengthy) article:
Here are the players and their known interactions, with links to previous news stories:

Michael Cohen
Trump’s personal lawyer and fixer started working on a proposed Trump Tower in Moscow in September 2015 with Felix Sater, a Russian-born real estate developer who’s a felon and previously had helped collect intelligence for the U.S. government. Cohen said the Trump Organization signed a nonbinding letter of intent in October 2015 with Moscow-based I.C. Expert Investment Company.

The project ultimately fizzled. Cohen said he stopped working on it in January 2016, around the time he reached out to a Kremlin spokesman asking for help with the project. Yahoo News reported that in May Sater and Cohen were still talking about the tower, including a possible trip to Russia to have a meeting with government officials. Just before and after Trump’s inauguration, Cohen met with Russian oligarch Viktor Vekselberg and Andrew Intrater, who invests money for Vekselberg. Shortly after, Intrater’s private equity firm, Columbus Nova, awarded Cohen a $1 million consulting contract.


Michael Flynn
The retired Army lieutenant general attended a December 2015 dinner in Russia where he sat at a table with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Several months later, Flynn started working as an informal adviser to the Trump campaign and in August attended Trump’s first intelligence briefing with the FBI. After the election he was named Trump’s national security adviser. During the presidential transition he had multiple contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in which they discussed U.S. sanctions. Flynn resigned as national security adviser after it become known he had lied about the nature of his conversations with Kislyak. He was later indicted by Mueller for making false statements to investigators and agreed to become a cooperating witness.


George Papadopoulos
Shortly after being named a foreign policy adviser to the Trump campaign in March 2016, Papadopoulos met with a London professor he believed had connections to the Russian government. That month, Papadopoulos suggested he could help arrange a meeting between Trump and Putin, an offer that was rejected by Sessions, who led the Trump campaign’s foreign policy team. In April, the professor told Papadopoulos that Russian officials had “dirt” on Clinton in the form of thousands of emails. Papadopoulos also was in contact with a Russian who said he represented the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Papadopoulos was arrested in July 2017 and in October pleaded guilty to misleading investigators.


Jared Kushner
The president’s son-in-law met briefly with Kislyak at an event at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington in April 2016 in what he has described as an exchange of pleasantries. In December, after the election, Kushner met again with Kislyak and Russian banker Sergey Gorkov, who’s close to Putin.


Michael Caputo
The Republican political strategist -- who lived for a time in Moscow and worked for the campaign of the late President Boris Yeltsin -- worked briefly as an adviser to the Trump campaign. He was contacted by a Russian business partner who asked him to help facilitate a meeting between the Trump campaign and a Russian national who identified himself as Henry Greenberg. Caputo directed him to veteran Republican operative Stone, with whom Caputo has worked for decades.


Roger Stone
The longtime Trump political adviser confirmed for the first time this month that he met at a Florida cafe in May 2016 with Greenberg, who claimed to have information that would be “beneficial” to the Trump campaign but demanded $2 million in exchange. Stone -- who says he’d forgotten about the 20-minute meeting when he failed to disclose it in interviews with a congressional committee -- said he rejected the deal. Stone says he thinks the meeting was part of an FBI plot to entrap him in light of indications that Greenberg had worked in the past as an informant for the bureau.

Stone also told people during the campaign that he was in contact with Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, which published Democratic National Committee emails believed to have been stolen by Russian operatives. Stone has since denied that he communicated directly with Assange. Stone also exchanged private messages on Twitter with an online persona called Guccifer 2.0, believed to be linked to the Russian government.


Paul Manafort
While serving as Trump’s campaign chairman, Manafort was in contact with Konstantin Kilimnik, who the FBI has described as having ties to Russian intelligence. In July 2016, Manafort offered to give a campaign briefing to another business associate, Oleg Deripaska, who’s closely aligned with the Kremlin. Manafort was charged in October with a series of financial crimes and for failing to register as an agent of Ukraine. His bail was revoked and he was jailed after prosecutors claimed he tried to tamper with witnesses.


Donald Trump Jr.
The president’s son helped arrange the meeting at Trump Tower in June 2016 with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya and Rinat Akhmetshin, a Russian-American lobbyist. Kushner and Manafort also were there. While the Russians billed it as a chance to share damaging information on Clinton, participants have said nothing of value was offered.

Trump Jr. agreed to the meeting at the request of a pop star in Russia whose family has ties to Putin and has known the Trump family for several years. The meeting also has led to controversy over President Trump’s role in drafting a statement that falsely described the topic of the meeting as adoptions of Russian children.

In addition, Alexander Torshin, the deputy governor of the Russian central bank, has said he had shared a dinner table with Trump Jr. at the National Rifle Association’s annual convention in May. Torshin, a former senator in Putin’s United Russia party directed dirty-money flows for mobsters in Moscow, according to investigators in Spain.


Carter Page
After being named a foreign policy adviser to the campaign in March 2016, Page traveled to Moscow that July for a speech and meetings. Page said he met briefly with Arkady Dvorkovich, then the deputy prime minister of Russia. Page said he also met Dvorkovich again at a dinner in December, after he was no longer affiliated with the Trump campaign. Page also met in July with Andrey Baranov, the head of investor relations for the Russian energy company Rosneft. And Page met with Kislyak briefly at the Republican convention in July. U.S. intelligence agencies indicated Page was a target of Russian intelligence as early as 2013.


Jeff Sessions
The attorney general, who took an early role in Trump’s campaign while serving in the Senate, had conversations with Ambassador Kislyak at the Republican convention and in September in his Senate office. The Washington Post reported that U.S. intelligence intercepted Kislyak telling Russian officials that they discussed campaign-related issues. Session recused himself from the Russia investigation -- a move for which Trump has repeatedly vilified him because Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein then appointed Mueller as special counsel.


J.D. Gordon
As a campaign foreign policy adviser, Gordon met briefly with Kislyak at the Republican convention. Page contacted Gordon, a former Pentagon spokesman, and others on the campaign in July to praise them for a change in the Republican Party platform that softened the party’s support for Ukraine in its conflict with Russia. Gordon also has said Page went around him to secure permission to make a trip to Russia.


Rick Gates
In September and October, Gates communicated directly with Kilimnik, according to court filings. Gates was a right-hand man to Manafort and worked as a campaign aide until he was fired by Trump in August. Even after being fired, Gates remained involved with the campaign through the Republican National Committee, and he worked on the presidential transition. Gates pleaded guilty in February to conspiring with Manafort to defraud the U.S. in charges not directly related to the Russia probe.


Erik Prince
The founder of Blackwater, a provider of private security forces in trouble spots such as Iraq, served as an informal adviser to Trump’s transition team. His sister, Betsy DeVos, is now education secretary. After Trump’s election but before the inauguration, Prince met Kirill Dmitriev, the head of a Russian-government controlled wealth fund who’s close to Putin, during a visit to the Seychelles islands.

Prince told congressional investigators he was meeting with the crown prince of the United Arab Emirates to discuss topics including Middle East tensions and bauxite mining when the prince’s brother casually suggested that he go downstairs to chat with “this Russian guy.” The New York Times has reported that the meeting was arranged in part to explore the possibility of a back channel for discussions between the incoming Trump administration and the Kremlin, according to people familiar with the meeting it didn’t identify.

 

[Mark Antony]

Democrats are such ******* at times. Look at how these people did the Red Hen's Yelp and yet they still fall for their bully ploy about "civility". The **** outta here man.

 

[Mark Antony]

President Donald Trump said Tuesday that Harley-Davidson will be "taxed like never before" and that the U.S. motorcycle company was using increased trade tensions as an excuse to justify planned shifts in production overseas.

"A Harley-Davidson should never be built in another country-never! Their employees and customers are already very angry at them. If they move, watch, it will be the beginning of the end - they surrendered, they quit! The Aura will be gone and they will be taxed like never before!" Trump said in a tweet.

Well you can't just tax one company so I imagine whatever he's gonna do will further kill other companies/industries. Good, you got in bed with him.

 

[Belgium]

A well oiled machine indeed.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trade-...stration-sends-stocks-on-wild-ride-1529969184
Trade Rift Within Trump Administration Sends Stocks on Wild Ride
DJIA sheds 1.3% after Mnuchin says China isn’t a target of investment-control effort and trade adviser Navarro say move is aimed at Beijing
Bitter fights over trade within the Trump administration again broke into the open, driving wild swings in the stock market as the White House’s top trade adviser clashed with the Treasury secretary over restrictions on foreign investment.
For weeks, the administration has been planning a two-pronged effort to block Chinese companies from obtaining advanced U.S. technology. The U.S. would block Chinese companies from investing in U.S. technology companies, while restricting U.S. technology exports to China. Beijing has reacted strongly to the escalating tensions, with President Xi Jinping vowing to “punch back” against the U.S. trade measures.

The rising tensions over technology transfers sent investors fleeing from some of the market’s best-performing technology firms on Monday. The Dow Jones Industrial Average shed as many as 497 points before ending down 328.09 points, or 1.3%, at 24252.80.

The U.S. goal is to prevent Beijing from advancing with plans outlined in its “Made in China 2025” report to become a global leader in 10 broad areas of technology, including information technology, aerospace and electric vehicles.

“To protect our national security, the United States will implement specific investment restrictions and enhanced export controls for Chinese persons and entities related to the acquisition of industrially significant technology,” the White House said on May 29. The plan would be announced by June 30 and put into effect “shortly thereafter,” it said.

On Monday morning, in response to a Wall Street Journal article detailing the administration’s plans, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin denied China was the target of the investment-control effort. China wouldn’t be specifically named, Mr. Mnuchin tweeted at 7:41 a.m., before markets opened. Rather the administration will target “all countries that are trying to steal our technology.”
Mr. Mnuchin labeled the Journal article on the investment restrictions as “false, fake news” based on information provided by a “leaker” who “either doesn’t exist or know the subject very well.”

During the day, markets plunged on fears of a deepening trade war with China. That prompted White House trade adviser Peter Navarro to appear on cable television to try to calm investors.

Messrs. Navarro and Mnuchin have long clashed on tariffs and China policy, among other issues. When the two men were part of a trade mission to Beijing in May, Mr. Navarro confronted Mr. Mnuchin at Diaoyutai State Guest House and accused him of making a power grab by meeting one-on-one with China’s main economic envoy, rather than meeting as a team.

Mr. Navarro appeared on CNBC at around 3:30 p.m. on Monday to say the investment restrictions were indeed aimed at China—and not at other countries. “This whole idea that somehow there are going to be investment restrictions to the world, please discount that,” Mr. Navarro said, contradicting the Treasury secretary. “What the president has done and stated is that we’ve got an issue with China coming in and taking our technology,” he added.

Mr. Navarro also hinted at the struggles over exactly what will be announced by the end of the week on investment restrictions. “The only thing that’s going to happen in the near term is the Treasury Department on Friday is going to report to the president about the issue related to China,” he said. “With respect to other countries, there’s absolutely nothing on the table.”

Although CNBC ran a chyron that said “Navarro: No plans to impose investment restrictions,” a person familiar with the White House deliberations said that wasn’t supposed to be his message. Rather, the warring sides are continuing to fight over specifics of the investment plan.

Mr. Navarro’s comments “leave open the door to following through on the [investment restriction] plan announced on May 29,” which says the policies will be announced “and they will be implemented shortly thereafter.”

Administration officials have said President Donald Trump had been unhappy with the pace of the Treasury’s deliberations on investment restrictions and used the May 29 announcement to make sure the department produced a working plan by June 30. Industry officials are expected to have a chance to comment on the plan once it’s announced, people familiar with the deliberations said.

Adding to the confusion, after Mr. Navarro spoke on CNBC, White House press secretary Sarah Sanders appeared to side with Mr. Mnuchin. “As the secretary said, a statement would go out that targets all countries that are trying to steal our technology, and we expect that to be out soon,” she told a press briefing about 15 minutes after the trade adviser’s appearance.

The conflicting signals were similar to an episode in May when Mr. Mnuchin and U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer crossed swords over whether the U.S. would move forward with tariffs on Chinese imports. Several hours after Mr. Mnuchin told Fox News that the U.S. was “putting the trade war on hold” and wouldn’t assess tariffs on Beijing while the two sides talked, Mr. Lighthizer put out a statement saying tariffs remained an important tool to “protect our technology.”

Since then, Mr. Trump has said he would impose tariffs on as much as $450 billion of Chinese goods. On July 6, the first tariffs, of 25%, take effect on $34 billion of Chinese imports. Beijing has threatened to match the U.S. tariffs on the same day on a dollar-for-dollar basis.
The administration’s trade hawks, including Messrs. Navarro and Lighthizer, have been in the ascendancy since mid-May.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I dont look at Trump's tweets ... I dont follow Trump on Twitter and I cant see tweets on NT for some reason ...

I am simply playing out the situation as I see it ... The outrage started with the separation of children ... Trump signed an order saying stop doing that ... I understand he "started it" and I'm not really disputing that ... I am wondering what the Left's goal is for immigration because EVERYONE who is anti-Trump is advocating for an open border policy, ultimately ...

I dont even look at Facebook too often but the stuff I saw regarding immigration was so nonsensical ... People using examples of illegal immigration success stories as a means to justify ............. O wait, they never get to the policy part ... The only conclusion can be open borders ... In the end, the only thing that will satisfy the Left is unbridled immigration ...

Google immigration impact on wages because I dont feel like getting into it ... It's real and there is blame on both sides ...

Stop using your ignorance as a ******* excuse.

The mainstream left is not calling for open borders.

They are find with border enforcement, even funding more of it.

What they want is legal status a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants still here, and to accept a decent level of refugees.

And if your want to talk about the effect on wages, go Google and read up on aggregate demand.

You run around with a damn strawman in your head, refusing to educate yourself on the other sides opinion, and then use that an excuse to troll.

Do ******* better.

 

[sonoftony]

 

[RustyShackleford]

Yes they do exist lol
Although a majority of them disprove of Trumps performance on the polls, there is still decent amount of them that actually approve of his job performance. I deduce the ones that approve have some financial incentive to be ok with whatever he’s doing.

At Ninja repping this.

Famb running his mouth in other threads about him not caring about our liberal opinions. But his *** still lurking. I wonder if he still reports things he does not like

 

[IATT]

 

[aepps20]

deuce king

Do your thing.

 

[rolaholic]

This has to be all kinds of illegal no?

Also willing to bet money that the vast majority of Harley's customers make up his base

 

[hand2handking]

this is why they blocked garland

 

[deuce king]

deuce king

Do your thing.

Yeah I just got the breaking news update about this. As said many times before elections have consequences.....and those that voted for Trump or didn't vote at all unfortunately will have to bear all of Trump consequences along with the rest of us. This travel ban will definitely lead to more protests here in the DC area coming up.

 

[chao7]

 

[Based Jesus]

Racial Gerrymandering: OK
Muslim Ban: OK

Yall know me, I like to make my jokey jokes, but what's happening in our country right now is no joking matter.
I got nothing. No clever quips, sarcastic comments. Nada. Just a tough goddamn pill to swallow.

 

[rolaholic]

this is why they blocked garland

Probably the biggest tragedy of 2016 is losing the SC indefinitely

Dudes straight up hijacked a seat and wanna talk about 'civility' now...

 

[RustyShackleford]

Racial Gerrymandering: OK
Muslim Ban: OK

Yall know me, I like to make my jokey jokes, but what's happening in our country right now is no joking matter.
I got nothing. No clever quips, sarcastic comments. Nada. Just a tough goddamn pill to swallow.

Take solace in the knowledge that elections have no consequences.

 

[sonoftony]

Might as well give the 2026 WC to Morocco at this point.

 

[rolaholic]

Spot on

 

[wavycrocket]

 

[dreamer23]

i 'member...

 

[RustyShackleford]

 

[dwalk31]

But... but... I thought it was unconstitutional...

Gotta love the Niketalk legal scholars

 

[InTheHallway]

Stop using your ignorance as a ****ing excuse.

The mainstream left is not calling for open borders.

They are find with border enforcement, even funding more of it.

What they want is legal status a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants still here, and to accept a decent level of refugees.

And if your want to talk about the effect on wages, go Google and read up on aggregate demand.

You run around with a damn strawman in your head, refusing to educate yourself on the other sides opinion, and then use that an excuse to troll.

Do ****ing better.

Lol ... O, ok - I'll be sure to educate myself prior to posting, given your robust explanation of the Left's immigration platform ... That whole "decent level" estimate is quite solid ...

I literally asked for the other side's opinion, received one response that I appreciated and then your nonsensical tirade above ... You spewed the current immigration policy in force ............ what am I supposed to understand about that? The only conclusion is that you are similar to all the other sensationalists, thinking we need a change in policy without being definitive about said changes ... Are you aware of current immigration law that has remained unchanged for decades?

As for wages, dont go there with me slim ... I've forgotten more about labor economics than you are even aware of ...