***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[youngogjosh]

literally only 1 man in the history of us politics has gotten more votes than she received

Exhibit A

Pure votes don't win elections, she and her team knew this and she still failed to reach enough voters in battleground states, where the votes that matter are.

 

[RustyShackleford]

youngogjosh the electorate was conditioned with “both side-ism” via the media. Never underestimate how big that is/was. Let’s not also discount the forces of racism, BLACK-lash, mysoginy and stupidity as driving “last stand” reactionary voters.

Perfect storm.

You are not gonna get through to famb.

Dude is all the way lost in the Bern sauce.

 

[RustyShackleford]

If Hillary is so incompetent. Why should we nominate a person that couldn't even beat her?

 

[youngogjosh]

youngogjosh the electorate was conditioned with “both side-ism” via the media. Never underestimate how big that is/was. Let’s not also discount the forces of racism, BLACK-lash, mysoginy and stupidity as driving “last stand” reactionary voters.

Perfect storm.

I don't disagree at all, but Obama had most of those same forces going against him and yet he won in spite of them. He could mobilize voters when it mattered and that's something people namely Dems aren't holding Hillary accountable for.

 

[IATT]

this 2 desks literally tell the story of this thing

 

[IATT]

I don't disagree at all, but Obama had most of those same forces going against him and yet he won in spite of them. He could mobilize voters when it mattered and that's something people namely Dems aren't holding Hillary accountable for.

Obama had the director of the FBI interject 2 weeks before the general election?

 

[-Red-]

Go trace back your arguments on this issue.

You went from being certain that besides the electoral college it is mainly her fault to basically "welp man whose knows, so I could be right"

Ok sure famb, who knows.

Yeah, I said how she ran her campaign was the biggest factor in her loss aside from the EC. I stand by that, and I gave the vast discrepancies in field offices between her and Obama’s two campaigns as an example of a serious campaign failure. How is that inconsistent with anything else I’ve said? I mean, we’re both giving our speculative opinions here. I don’t know what else you want.

 

[RustyShackleford]

So Bernie supporters in here, you guys are cool with Sanders facing the same conditions Hillary faced in 2016.

Since there is an assumption that he could easily overcome those hurdles by simply campaigning in the Midwest more.

Like if the FBI drops a bomb on him right before the election. A couple more field offices in Wisconsin gonna take care of that problem, right?

Russia hacking? A couple rallies in Western Pennsylvania gonna dead that, b.

I mean Bernie already thinks he gonna win the deep South by flipping white voters that vote GOP because the Dems ignore them.

 

[youngogjosh]

Obama had the director of the FBI interject 2 weeks before the general election?

No, he had to put up with republicans questioning whether he was even an American citizen in the GE. Not to mention the racism from the HRC campaign during the Dem primaries.

Nice pivot btw

 

[RustyShackleford]

Yeah, I said how she ran her campaign was the biggest factor in her loss aside from the EC. I stand by that, and I gave the vast discrepancies in field offices between her and Obama’s two campaigns as an example of a serious campaign failure. How is that inconsistent with anything else I’ve said? I mean, we’re both giving our speculative opinions here. I don’t know what else you want.

I don't want anything else.

 

[IATT]

Nice pivot btw

you quoted me chief, go read what you quoted

It was announced on October 28th, 2016 that the FBI was reviewing more emails..

election was on November 8th, 2016

 

[youngogjosh]

you quoted me chief, go read what you quoted

It was announced on October 28th, 2016 that the FBI was reviewing more emails..

election was on November 8th, 2016

You quoted my response to wavycrocket not my response to you.

Listing dates doesn't refute anything I've said.

 

[RustyShackleford]

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/

Hillary Clinton would probably be president if FBI Director James Comey had not sent a letter to Congress on Oct. 28. The letter, which said the FBI had “learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation” into the private email server that Clinton used as secretary of state, upended the news cycle and soon halved Clinton’s lead in the polls, imperiling her position in the Electoral College.

The letter isn’t the only reason that Clinton lost. It does not excuse every decision the Clinton campaign made. Other factors may have played a larger role in her defeat, and it’s up to Democrats to examine those as they choose their strategy for 2018 and 2020.

But the effect of those factors — say, Clinton’s decision to give paid speeches to investment banks, or her messaging on pocket-book issues, or the role that her gender played in the campaign — is hard to measure. The impact of Comey’s letter is comparatively easy to quantify, by contrast. At a maximum, it might have shifted the race by 3 or 4 percentage points toward Donald Trump, swinging Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Florida to him, perhaps along with North Carolina and Arizona. At a minimum, its impact might have been only a percentage point or so. Still, because Clinton lost Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin by less than 1 point, the letter was probably enough to change the outcome of the Electoral College.

 

[IATT]

Listing dates doesn't refute anything I've said.

so Obama got an FBI investigation announced less than 2 weeks prior to an election?

 

[RustyShackleford]

If she lost without the Comey letter, which was a possibility, I would me more inclined to come down harder of her mistakes.

 

[youngogjosh]

So Bernie supporters in here, you guys are cool with Sanders facing the same conditions Hillary faced in 2016.

Since there is an assumption that he could easily overcome those hurdles by simply campaigning in the Midwest more.

Like if the FBI drops a bomb on him right before the election. A couple more field offices in Wisconsin gonna take care of that problem, right?

Russia hacking? A couple rallies in Western Pennsylvania gonna dead that, b.

I mean Bernie already thinks he gonna win the deep South by flipping white voters that vote GOP because the Dems ignore them.

Rust, these hypotheticals are useless because Sanders and Hillary aren't running the same campaign. I could see them working if Biden got the nod but he and Hillary are really the only ones in the recent pool of potential elects that have a less than favorable public image.

 

[superblytrife]

If Hillary is so incompetent. Why should we nominate a person that couldn't even beat her?

We need answers, Bernie folks. Pls respond.

 

[youngogjosh]

so Obama got an FBI investigation announced less than 2 weeks prior to an election?

Hillary had Republicans question her American citizenship for a whole campaign?

 

[IATT]

Hillary had Republicans question her American citizenship for a whole campaign?

republicans.. not the federal bureau of investigation

republicans were calling to lock her up.. and then the FBI got involved.. plus you had the hackings by the Russian government

obama dealt with racism.. she dealt with sexism

there’s a lot of stupid to go around

 

[youngogjosh]

We need answers, Bernie folks. Pls respond.

Because it's not 2016? This isn't the KO punch you think it is.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Rust, these hypotheticals are useless because Sanders and Hillary aren't running the same campaign. I could see them working if Biden got the nod but he and Hillary are really the only ones in the recent pool of potential elects that have a less than favorable public image.

That is my whole point.

Are you that confident in a Sanders campaign that you will be unbothered if Russia unleashes another propaganda campaign to help Trump, and a Comey Letter level even right before the election.

Since beating Trump seems to be an easily as fixing one mistake.

 

[youngogjosh]

republicans.. not the federal bureau of investigation

republicans were calling to lock her up.. and then the FBI got involved.. plus you had the hackings by the Russian government

obama dealt with racism.. she dealt with sexism

there’s a lot of stupid to go around

So they both dealt with adversity. That's all I'm saying.

As for the FBI, they only have as much sway as the party who's willing to use them to score points with their base. See how much Dems loved Mueller before that whole thing went kaput.

 

[IATT]

So they both dealt with adversity. That's all I'm saying.

As for the FBI, they only have as much sway as the party who's willing to use them to score points with their base. See how much Dems loved Mueller before that whole thing went kaput.

the fbi is supposed to be independent

you expect attacks from political rivals

it’s why only stupid people listened to that birther crap about Obama

however if the FBI announced just before the election that they were going to investigate new information on obama’s birth we might have had to deal with Vice President Sarah palin and John McCain’s daughter being more insufferable

o and #neverforget

 

[IATT]

 

[Belgium]

I briefly skimmed through those new OMB documents and they’re almost entirely unintelligible due to the heavy redactions. Literally every substantive part is blacked out under the (b)(5) ‘deliberative process’ exemption, which is very broad.